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New here!  [message #4456] Fri, 20 September 2002 01:29 Go to next message
toms is currently offline  toms

Likes it here

Registered: September 2002
Messages: 138



Hello, all!

I'm Tom, 16 years old, and I'm pretty sure I might be gay. At least, I think I might be bisexual. I'm still trying to seek my identity and my place in the world, and I feel very welcome here already, and I haven't even posted yet (well, until now!)!

I just have one question -- I sometimes completely mirror some of the characters in IOMFATS's stories (which is why I love it here, BTW, IOMFATS, you're doing a wonderful job), in that I have a big big BIG crush on this guy from school. I can't stop thinking about him...heck, I've got butterflies even typing about it to you. He's a little younger than me, but probably by a margin of 8-12 months, and I only talk to him a little, but we seem to get along whenever I talk to him on my schoolbus (or, at least that's they way I think Wink).

But, I don't know if he feels the same way about me -- heck, I don't even know if he's gay. What's the best strategy to find this information out, without being too obvious? I mean, no one close to me knows this about me -- except for one friend that merely shrugged it off as a phase and nothing more. Even the slightest bit of information would help me out here, because I'm totally clueless (and probably a bit too nervous!). Thanks a bunch, and I hope to get to know each and every one of you! Smile

-Tom Wink



"Whatever is sought for can be caught, you know,
whatever is neglected slips away."
Oedipus Rex, lines 126-127
Welcome aboard (simply awlful pun there) TomS!  [message #4457 is a reply to message #4456] Fri, 20 September 2002 02:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
warren c. e. austin is currently offline  warren c. e. austin

Likes it here
Location: Toronto, Ontario, CANADA
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 247



Good have you around. You'll like it here - the folks are real friendly.

Perhaps one of our other youthful members (smith and Dan are two that come to mind, but I know there are others) might have some insight for you on how to tell if your friend might be receptive to your advances; I'm afraid that I'm getting just a little bit long-in-the-tooth to be doling out that kind of advice.

How long have you been hanging-out around here before telling us you were here? I'm asking because I'm sort of "new" here myself, and I spent a week or so reading pages of prior "posts" getting a sense of who everyone was, and what they might have to say, before I jumped-in, and I just wondered if my behaviour before joining was typical of others, or not.

Warren C. E. Austin
The challenge is........................................  [message #4459 is a reply to message #4456] Fri, 20 September 2002 07:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
timmy

Has no life at all
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13739



There is no way of telling if another boy is gay. OK, that's the black news.

Oh heck, there are so many places to start, though.

The first place is you. You're already wise enough to say that you aren't sure about your own orientation. Being "gay" (I hate labels, so bear with me here) is not a definitive state. In the end it's a process of self discovery. The weird thing is that the state may alter dramatically throughout your life. You may get periods of great emotional AND sexual longing for one or more males, and great periods for one or more females, and even great periods of preferring your own hand to any other person, or nothing at all.

I went through exactly the same as you, but with a boy 9 months older than me. My challenge was, and is, that to took all of the rest of my life less a year (almost to the day) to rid myself of what started as deep desire for friendship, moved to love, unrequited love, longing, and then obsession. That road is not a road to walk. I managed to screw myself up totally.

This is still about you. We get to him in a little bit.

You need to be self aware enough to know what your feelings are for this one boy, as well as knowing your feelings for boys as a whole. That may be very different. do you, for example
  • want his friendship
  • want to be with him and touch him non sexually
  • want to see him naked so bad it hurts
  • want to do sexual things with him and know what you want to do
  • want to do sexual things with him and will do what he asks, whatever your preferences?
Have you any idea what you wish to do with your own body, or is it all simply a huge rush of excitement and adrenaline whenever you try to talk to him?

Oh, on the school bus, do you try to press your thigh against him? Been there, done that! Do not read a single thing into whether he leaves his thigh there or pulls it away. I found it means nothing at all.

OK, so far we are getting to your becoming self aware. We don't need to live this in public, by the way. We can make this as private as you need, with me or anyone here who seems useful to you.

Now him.

Let me start again with bad news. 90% sure he is not gay, though many boys are receptive (I am told) to pseudo gay fun, which almost always excludes kissing (that is seen as gay). I am told mutual jerks are normal (I wish I'd known that when I was 13), and blow jobs are often allowed (really????). I wish some str8 boy would post here and tell me what he feels about the concept. But 90% sure your heart's desire is str8.

The best to hope for is to make him your friend. Deep and true friend. How much you risk after you are friends really depends on where in the world you live. One of us here lives in Redneck Hicksville, USA; probably many do. So saying "I am gay" there would be dangerous physically as well as emotionally, unless deep friendship is there first.

Do things like ask him to hang out after school. Find what interests him, and show an interest in it, become interested in it enough to enjoy it and talk about it with him, and, if it's a pastime, to do it with him. Do not stalk or shadow him. I did that. It creates obsession. Instead even be prepared to let him go. But make a firm play for friendship before you do. No love can exist without friendship.

I am not talking here about seducing him. The stories about sleepovers are grossly oversimplified and have roses and puppies on the lid of the chocolate box. We write, in the main, truly trashy love novels, with deep angst. I admit it. All mine save two are idealised. The one that is a fact is "The Walk". That one is autobiographical, though the ending came 36 years late.

With good fortune he may be gay. Unless you and he are friends there is no way you will ever know. And you will only know if he tells you. Like he will only know if you tell him. Even if he's gay, the luck needs to hold for him to return lust, let alone love. This sounds so depressing, but it should not be. Only I know what you're going through, and I know how you feel right now. And that doesn't help you either. Only it's good to know that others have been through this load of shit and lived.

One of us who posts less often here had the good fortune to fall in love at 12 with the boy who now, many years later is his life partner. Many hurdles in between, and neither knew the other was gay for YEARS.

Gaydar exists, sure. But it only exists when we drop our own shields and allow our humanity (NOT campness or effeminacy, that has nothing to do with orientation) to show through. Commenting favourably on gay matters (do not make this the only news item you comment on) and discussing them in depth with him will show what his "surface reaction" is. It's somewhere to start. But gaydar truly only shows the obviously gay people to us, so is unreliable.

The thing not to forget is that you deserve to love and be loved, and to form a long term relationship if that is what you wish. Though it may not be with this young man.

Oh heck, this all sounds so depressing. It does at first reading. I can picture you in tears, and I don't want that. I'm trying to hug you and tell you that it's all right. The friendship will help. Be his friend. With friendship any doors that are openable will open. Without it you have no chance. So be interested in him and his life and hopes and fears and feelings. Hang out with him. Skate with him even if he's an expert and you're a dork. Get him to teach you something that you can't do. And be his friend.



Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
icon6.gif Hi Tom! Welcome aboard, hope you'll have a pleasant time here with us.  [message #4463 is a reply to message #4456] Fri, 20 September 2002 09:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
lenny is currently offline  lenny

On fire!
Location: Far Away
Registered: March 2002
Messages: 1755




timmy's advice sounds good in my ears.

Even if he isn't gay, I'm sure you could still use a new friend, so start there. Then there's a question if it can progress anywhere beyond that, but try to be careful while finding that out. Friendships can (and have been) broken over this issue, so it would be unpleasant for you (and him most probably) if he reacts in a negative manner.

If you're ever going to find out, short of plain asking him outright (and then he might lie), it's probably a neccessity you two to be completely comfortable in each other's presence.

Knowing he can trust you will be instrumental in accomplishing that. Building trust can be done by setting an example. Share of yourself first, things that you consider 'safe', yet controversial. Maybe you embarrassed yourself in public in some manner once. Tell him about that. Or whatever other thing you think would be suitable, short of saying, "I think I got a crush on you"... Smile

-Lenny



"But he that hath the steerage of my course,
direct my sail."

-William Shakespeare, Romeo and Juliet, Act One, Scene IV
When you are with him..... Casually adjust yourself.......  [message #4464 is a reply to message #4459] Fri, 20 September 2002 10:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
marc is currently offline  marc

Needs to get a life!

Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729



If his eyes become rivited to your crotch then you will know he is at least interested.

Marc



Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
icon7.gif Hi Tom!  [message #4465 is a reply to message #4463] Fri, 20 September 2002 12:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
david in hong kong is currently offline  david in hong kong

On fire!
Location: American working in Thail...
Registered: February 2002
Messages: 1101




Welcome! Good for you in having the guts to introduce yourself here amongst your new friends.

One risk at a time, is my advice. Making friends and becoming better friends over time is the best way. Of course, that takes patience...which can be really REALLY frustrating.

I'm one of the Old Geezers here. My partner, nicknamed "Man" and I have our picture posted in the "Messageboard Irregulars" section. He's 18 years younger than me, but he's still waaay older than you. *Sigh*

Man and I met in a restaurant. His friends let him know that I was checking him out. My friends noticed the same thing. We met. It took a while, but we got together. We've been partners for close to 10 years now. So, it's possible. Maybe the possibilities can help you live with the impatience for now?

Hope is a good and energizing factor. Keep your hopes strong, and you'll find someone worthy of your love. Even if it isn't this one particular guy in the end.

Have you found any of the gay teen chatrooms? I know they're there, tailor made for young guys like you. Maybe smith, Dan, Gil, or one of the other younger members of our little gang can help you find them.

Keep asking this group specific questions, too. That will always help. No question is too basic or dumb sounding! The only thing you can lose is your ignorance, right?

Have a good day!



"Always forgive your enemies...nothing annoys them quite so much." Oscar Wilde
I'm nervous of gay teen chatrooms  [message #4466 is a reply to message #4465] Fri, 20 September 2002 13:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
timmy

Has no life at all
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13739



so many people there are predatory. I would say steer clear of them unless you are so certain of what oyu are doing that you feel safe.

Tom really needs advice about the here and now, and the boy he likes, I think, rather than a place that seeks to reinforce mutual gayness. Remember, he may or may not be truly male/male oriented



Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
Re: New here!  [message #4467 is a reply to message #4456] Fri, 20 September 2002 20:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
kevin is currently offline  kevin

On fire!
Location: Somewhere
Registered: September 2002
Messages: 1108




Welcome Tom,

Glad to see you here. As far as your friend, be cautious. Take it slow and judge when YOU are ready to take it further. Sometimes the rewards can be worth the effort.

I wish you the best of luck.

Kevin



"Be excellent to each other, and, party on dudes"!
icon7.gif Oh my God, I feel so welcome!  [message #4469 is a reply to message #4466] Fri, 20 September 2002 20:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
toms is currently offline  toms

Likes it here

Registered: September 2002
Messages: 138



I can not tell you how welcome I feel here!! All I can say is that I'm grinning from ear to ear right now and I'm stopping short of tearing up. Smile

I'll try in this message to answer some of the questions posted for me...

Warren, I've been surfing around this site for about the last 3-4 days, and I just actually found the messageboard yesterday. So, when I posted yesterday, that was my first day.

Timmy, everything you said has been echoing through my mind. I couldn't have put it better myself. I know that there's like a 1 in a million chance he's gay. And, I believe I'm looking for his friendship, but just much more...but nothing REALLY sexual. I'm not willing to be manipulated for his pleasure...I'm really looking for an emotional connection that's more than friendship.

And, no, I haven't tried the thigh routine. There are only about 10 of us on the bus, so each guy gets his own seat and probably then some. Smile (Oh yes, I might as well mention, I attend an all-guy school.) And by the way, I'm not in tears, I'm doing just the opposite -- I'm embracing your hug! Smile

And Marc, that seems obvious...perhaps, too obvious! But I did get a chuckle out of it...thanks. Wink

Lenny, thanks so much for the input. Everything you said made so much sense, and I took it all to heart. Smile

David, thanks for your personal story, I think it'll really help me with my impatience! (Like today, when he wasn't on the bus, I got a little pissed off Smile but then I remembered I probably wasn't gonna make a move today or anything, so I got over it...but it took time.) And I think I agree with Timmy that people over at gay chatrooms are just looking for a "cyber-boyfriend" or something. But, still, I totally appretiate the effort to mention it. Smile

Now, you ALL pretty much said start out as friends. Being a junior and him being a sophomore, he's got his own set of friends, and so do I. So, I don't know how awkward it would seem if I all of a sudden had this profound interest in being his friend and hanging out with him so much, especially since I've had only a little contact with him on the bus. But, I mean, where else do I start, right?! Smile

But, just as I was typing this, I thought of a wonderful idea. In the last few days, we were discussing how he has my Chemistry teacher from last year. And, she was a new teacher last year, and she truly sucked as a teacher. I'm guessing not much has changed. So anyway, I suppose I could tell him that I'd be willing to help him if he never needed advice in Chemistry. How does that sound, huh?! Smile

Guys, I can't tell you how happy I am that I found this place. I hope to be here for some time, and I can't wait to get to know you all! This is only my second post, and I feel like such a veteran! THANK YOU SO MUCH! Smile

-Tom Wink



"Whatever is sought for can be caught, you know,
whatever is neglected slips away."
Oedipus Rex, lines 126-127
Welcome, Tom, sorry I'm late!  [message #4470 is a reply to message #4469] Fri, 20 September 2002 23:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
trevor is currently offline  trevor

Really getting into it

Registered: November 2002
Messages: 732



You sound like a bright guy, and I'm glad you found this place. The "study buddy" approach sounds like a great start, just stay cool - take it slow and try again if it takes a while for him to warm up to you. I'm glad that sex isn't your goal - you have plenty of time for that if and when the situation and partner are "right." Like Timmy said, feel free to ask more questions, let us know how it's going or if you're just having a bad day, or e-mail one of us if you want. We all have different experiences and it's nice to get a variety of opinions sometimes.
Sharing the bus is a good start.  [message #4471 is a reply to message #4469] Sat, 21 September 2002 00:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
charlie is currently offline  charlie

Really getting into it
Location: San Antonio, TX
Registered: February 2002
Messages: 445




Since you both ride the same bus, then there must be a geographical connection there somewhere. You make friends by having something in common. I had many friends through high school that were not in my grade level, but we shared something in common which led to the friendship. And often it was just location, they happened to be closer than my classmates. In any case, don't let the difference in grade levels deter you from making a new friend.


Hugs, Charlie
icon7.gif Hey Tom  [message #4473 is a reply to message #4456] Sat, 21 September 2002 00:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
smith is currently offline  smith

On fire!

Registered: January 1970
Messages: 1095



Very happy to meet you Smile

Go for being his friend. Friends first and then, if there is anything else, it will develop. I made a very good friend by offering to help him with Calculus. We are simply friends and that's all I ask of it.

Help is as close as that 'post' button right down there. The people on this board are wise, gentle and really quite wonderful. They always offer sound advice. Just listen like I do Smile Everything will work out. Plus, you've got a bunch of new friends.

((Hugs))
smith
icon7.gif Hey Tom,  [message #4474 is a reply to message #4469] Sat, 21 September 2002 01:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
gil is currently offline  gil

Likes it here
Location: Israel
Registered: May 2003
Messages: 118



I'm late again (as usual it seems) but I'd still like to welcome you to this here MB. WELCOME Smile

Your idea sounds good, the only thing I can think of that has not been said before me is to just flow with it. Talk with him and see where the conversation goes, try to relax and everything will fall into place.
Good luck Wink

Just be
Nike -scratch that I meant

Gil (Better Very Happy)



Searching for the light at the end of the bed...
icon14.gif Hi again Tom!  [message #4477 is a reply to message #4473] Sat, 21 September 2002 10:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
david in hong kong is currently offline  david in hong kong

On fire!
Location: American working in Thail...
Registered: February 2002
Messages: 1101




I agree with Charlie and smith 100%. Looking for something in common and developing a friendship patiently (glad you noticed that, by the way...hehe) by talking with him about the things you have in common, that'll be what gets you together initially.

Do you live in the same neighborhood? (I have family from Pennsylvania, by the way, in the Easton area. Cool place. I liked it whenever I was there visiting).

What other things do you have in common? Sports activities? Favorite books, movies, TV shows? Computers? Games? Church? Hobbies? Scouts, etc.? Other common friends in the area to do things together in a small group sometime?

These are all sort of normal, common interests and activities. There's no need to declare any "special" interest in him to try and develop closer ties. I had a crush on a guy when we were in High School. I figured out a way to be friends with him by finding out that he was a stamp collector like I was. It never developed into more than just being friends, but my crush evolved so that it wasn't too frustrating, except on our occasional sleep-overs, when I had to really control myself!

You've got a good attitude and guts, Tom. We like you already!



"Always forgive your enemies...nothing annoys them quite so much." Oscar Wilde
I was serious.... a scratch is innocenr enough... But .....  [message #4478 is a reply to message #4469] Sat, 21 September 2002 13:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
marc is currently offline  marc

Needs to get a life!

Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729



It is where his attention is centered that matters....

Perhaps you need some gaydar lessons?

Marc



Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
Re: I was serious.... a scratch is innocenr enough... But .....  [message #4491 is a reply to message #4478] Sat, 21 September 2002 21:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
toms is currently offline  toms

Likes it here

Registered: September 2002
Messages: 138



Yes, I'm sorry, Marc. I know it was a serious suggestion, and I wasn't sure how it would sound when I wrote that little sidenote to you. Thank you for the advice, and I totally apologize for the way I came off in that message. Smile

And some gaydar lessons probably wouldn't hurt, either. Wink

-Tom Wink



"Whatever is sought for can be caught, you know,
whatever is neglected slips away."
Oedipus Rex, lines 126-127
icon6.gif Belated welcome, Tom  [message #4501 is a reply to message #4456] Mon, 23 September 2002 00:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mihangel is currently offline  mihangel

Likes it here
Location: UK
Registered: July 2002
Messages: 192



I'm late, as usual, but none the less join in the welcomes. I can't add to the wise advice already on offer, but all good luck to you.

And I wave hello again to everyone else - I'm only just catching up with things back home, after a fortnight of touring Greece and getting sunburnt, along with my 19-year-old. Great opportunity for father-son bonding!

Mihangel
icon7.gif Welcome  [message #4503 is a reply to message #4456] Mon, 23 September 2002 05:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
e is currently offline  e

On fire!
Location: currently So Cal
Registered: May 2002
Messages: 1179



It's always good to see new faces around here. Sorry I'm a bit late, but I've been on vacation and managed to get online only once and only for a few minutes so I'm trying to catch up with everything I've missed over the last ten days.

It looks like evryone has given some wonderful advice. I like that idea about studying together. You may get it to progress into hanging out after school or even spending the night eventually. Use it to find other common interests. He may jump at the chance to hang with an upperclassman. It could be a sort of status thing.

Good luck and come back here often. Let us know how things are working out and as many others have said, you've found a lot of knew friends in here. Don't be afraid to ask for advice.

Think good thoughts,
e
Re: Welcome  [message #4518 is a reply to message #4503] Mon, 23 September 2002 16:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Guest is currently offline  Guest

On fire!

Registered: March 2012
Messages: 2344



hey tom, just here to toss in my WELCOME along with everyone else. i too was out of town and not able to get on line this past weekend so here is my belated welocome.

as for advice: reread all the advice that is posted so far ....i could not add anything else and these guys here rock.

welcome to the family

peace
tim...of USA
icon7.gif Re: New here!  [message #4527 is a reply to message #4456] Mon, 23 September 2002 22:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Guest is currently offline  Guest

On fire!

Registered: March 2012
Messages: 2344



Hello Tom
Yet another belated welcome. As regards your friend - listen to the guys who have offered support on this message board - they're the best bunch you could ever wish to meet and helped me a great deal.
Good luck and happy to meet you.
Re: I'm nervous of gay teen chatrooms  [message #8796 is a reply to message #4466] Fri, 28 March 2003 10:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Guest is currently offline  Guest

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No Message Body
icon13.gif Re: I'm nervous of gay teen chatrooms you gayboy  [message #8797 is a reply to message #4466] Fri, 28 March 2003 10:58 Go to previous message
Guest is currently offline  Guest

On fire!

Registered: March 2012
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you are all fagots being gay is very wrong the exit hole should always stay an exit hole!!!
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