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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13751
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I read http://cbs4.com/local/justin.lloyd.sharp.2.803419.html and had some wonderings:
Why take the dogs away?
Cats? Cats are sharp! No-one would have sex with a cat!
If they'd been pit bulls, would he have got a medal?
And now dogs. If your male jumps on and has sex with a bitch, is that rape? And is it different if you set out a candle lit dinner for them with soft music?
And jeez, he was just a kid. Were the dogs really victims? Any mental suffering there? He was just a horny little bastard, wasn't he?
And why was I reading it? Well I caught the headline here: http://haveballs.net/node/17768 and it seemed out of character with the rest of the site!
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13751
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Now, this also creates a new question. Artificial insemination: Does the guy who masturbates the bull sexually abuse the bull?
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Fingolfin
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Likes it here |
Location: Slovakia
Registered: August 2008
Messages: 265
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Sorry, Timmy, I've got this feeling that your thoughts dragged you ad absurdum...
Sexual abuse of animals...well, is there any? Since we can't understand animals' language, we cannot know. That means that you simply are not capable of stating whether the animals were consenting. Due to this fact, it is considered to be against the law. However, to keep you company in your (now our) absurd position, how do we know that those animals did not enjoy it? How do we know that the bull is not praying for relief and can't bear any further stimulation? How do we know...?
To seem it all up. Should it be punished? I don't know. We need to ask the zoopsychologists or... ghost busters. No idea here... That means that law is effective here and we may only doubt, protest etc. but cannot solve it.
Marek
It is better to switch on a small light than to curse the darkness.
- Vincent Šikula, Slovak writer
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13751
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My point is that it is lawful to masturbate a bull, but somehow not to do things with other critters.
Now I don't want to do either, but I dislike double standards.
[Updated on: Thu, 28 August 2008 11:08]
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Fingolfin
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Likes it here |
Location: Slovakia
Registered: August 2008
Messages: 265
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I can't even imagine myself jerking a bull (dog, tomcat, whatever) off. Talking itself sounds pretty disgusting... But yeah, inseminator is a regular job demanding university degree, I think.
Marek
It is better to switch on a small light than to curse the darkness.
- Vincent Šikula, Slovak writer
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I know someone who regularly jerks off bulls - and hogs too. No names, no pack drill. Although he's pretty proud of it I don't think he expects a medal.
J F R
The paradox has often been noted that the United States, founded in secularism, is now the most religiose country in Christendom, while England, with an established church headed by its constitutional monarch, is among the least. (Richard Dawkins, 2006)
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Fingolfin
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Likes it here |
Location: Slovakia
Registered: August 2008
Messages: 265
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Is it his job or is it for fun? You wrote that he's pretty proud of it, anyway, does he actually ENJOY it? Do the animals? Is it legal?
Marek
It is better to switch on a small light than to curse the darkness.
- Vincent Šikula, Slovak writer
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13751
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Which reminds me of the slogan for AI:
"Straight up! No bull!"
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Mark wrote:
Is it his job - a task rather than a job.
or is it for fun? - not for fun (as far as I know).
does he actually ENJOY it? - I don't know, I'd have to ask him.
Do the animals? - I don't know, we'd have to ask them.
Is it legal? - Yes.
J F R
The paradox has often been noted that the United States, founded in secularism, is now the most religiose country in Christendom, while England, with an established church headed by its constitutional monarch, is among the least. (Richard Dawkins, 2006)
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Fingolfin
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Likes it here |
Location: Slovakia
Registered: August 2008
Messages: 265
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Neat.
That was exhausting. Hm, as I read some of your responses to my questions: how do we ask the animals? A task rather than a job? Does it mean that he is not an inseminator but he works on his family's farm???
Marek
It is better to switch on a small light than to curse the darkness.
- Vincent Šikula, Slovak writer
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Mark wrote:
how do we ask the animals? - I tried to make my response appropriate to your question 
Hugs,
J F R
The paradox has often been noted that the United States, founded in secularism, is now the most religiose country in Christendom, while England, with an established church headed by its constitutional monarch, is among the least. (Richard Dawkins, 2006)
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Fingolfin
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Likes it here |
Location: Slovakia
Registered: August 2008
Messages: 265
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I have an answer to that...
Checking the EEG in combination with CT of animals' brain to find what are the responses to sexual stimulation like.
Marek
P.S. Yes, it's that simple...
It is better to switch on a small light than to curse the darkness.
- Vincent Šikula, Slovak writer
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I believe that if you masturbate a dog you may be embarrassed when you find it comes back and asks for more at the most inconvenient time! If true this would be evidence it wasn't abuse.
Love,
Anthony
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13751
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Does that explain the Jack Russel terrier?
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Any Welshman reading this will be shaking in his shoes.
Hugs
N
I dream of boys with big bulges in their trousers,
Never of girls with big bulges in their blouses.
…and look forward to meeting you in Cóito.
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This is the part of the article that got to me:
>Deputy Sheriff Eric Davis is deeply disturbed by the case.
>"The animals can't speak, they can't call 911, this is case of a human being taking advantage of an animal that can't defend himself," said Davis.
I wonder if that same Sheriff has a dog chained to a tree in his back yard? Or perhaps one that lives out its life in a kennel with a cement floor and is virtually alone when the family is at work or school? I wonder if the deputy sheriff has ever been known to shoot a stray cat in his yard? If he doesn't or hasn't, I'm sure he has friends that do. Yet he is somehow more disturbed by this case of 'so called' animal cruelty than what passes as normal among animal owners.
I don't know, I'd hope they would judge by the video whether or not the boy actually put the animal through pain. I hope this isn't tried based on some religious ethic.
Youth crisis hot-line 866-488-7386, 24 hr (U.S.A.)
There are people who want to help you cope with being you.
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13751
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He has to say this because of the moral outrage the locals feel. The USA is a highly religious nation.
We had something similar in the UK a while back: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2002/02/07/chef_has_sex_with_goat/
Note the quote from the senior British Transport Policeman!
While one might not condone goatnography or whatever, and one might not wish to try it one's self, it does seems like the Sherrif has over reacted somewhat! We Brits have a stiffer upper lip, it seems!
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Since the sheriff presumably has to administer the case, his office demands impartiality. He may well be personally disturbed by the case, but that should remain outside the public domain.
Hugs
N
I dream of boys with big bulges in their trousers,
Never of girls with big bulges in their blouses.
…and look forward to meeting you in Cóito.
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13751
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I think you mistake the sheriff for justice.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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saben
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On fire! |
Registered: May 2003
Messages: 1537
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The dog was 4 years old, that is 28 dog years.
The boy was 17, under the age of consent in Florida.
The dog, therefore, was committing statutory rape. Shouldn't the dog be the one facing a court? Or being shot (what usually happens to criminal dogs).
As for the "child porn" he was caught possessing, that could well have been pictures of himself...
I think it goes to show how screwed up sex laws are.
I really am coming to believe that sexual assault should really be tried as "assault" ignoring the sexual-side of the act. Either an act is violent, or it is not.
Look at this tree. I cannot make it blossom when it suits me nor make it bear fruit before its time [...] No matter what you do, that seed will grow to be a peach tree. You may wish for an apple or an orange, but you will get a peach.
Master Oogway
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timmy wrote:
hasWhile one might not condone goatnography ... it does seems like the Sheriff has over reacted somewhat! We Brits have a stiffer upper lip, it seems!
Hmmm. I would imagine that in a goatnographic event it would be just the upper lip that is stiff.
J F R
The paradox has often been noted that the United States, founded in secularism, is now the most religiose country in Christendom, while England, with an established church headed by its constitutional monarch, is among the least. (Richard Dawkins, 2006)
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13751
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I knew someone would stiffen at that!
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13751
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Saben wrote:
> I really am coming to believe that sexual assault should really be tried as "assault" ignoring the sexual-side of the act. Either an act is violent, or it is not.
I am in total agreement. Sex should not be special in this way. It has plenty of other ways in which to be special.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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No, the sheriff is part of the justice system.
Hugs
N
I dream of boys with big bulges in their trousers,
Never of girls with big bulges in their blouses.
…and look forward to meeting you in Cóito.
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JimB
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Likes it here |
Registered: December 2006
Messages: 349
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Yes, Timmy, I did note the quote from the senior British Transport Policeman. Did you note the "horrified commuters" who contacted police on their mobile phones? I also noted that in both instances the offenders were tried and convicted. Now let's be honest, is there really that much difference between the two instances?
You are right though, especially in the area of the US where that instance took place religion is a very significant part of life. These two instances do provide answer to a long-standing question, "Why does Nifty have a bestiality category?"
JimB
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Yes, Saben, Timmy,
There is nothing about sexual assault that makes it worse than assault.
I have been reading an excellent book by R Guyon called "The Ethics of Sexual Acts". He would undoubtedly agree. Yet the author's preface is dated 1930! Very enlightened for those days.
Love,
Anthony
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>"Why does Nifty have a bestiality category?"
Those of us in Idaho and Montana wouldn't know about those sorts of 'goings on'.
Youth crisis hot-line 866-488-7386, 24 hr (U.S.A.)
There are people who want to help you cope with being you.
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13751
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I have long felt that "shock" at a sexual act is a euphemism for being titillated by it and being unable to express that except with "shock".
"Dammit, Jenkins, there's a fella buggering a goat!"
"It's all right, old man, That's Tuppy Simpson. He usually does sheep!"
"A goat's a bit much, I'm going to call the police!"
"Get us both another pink gin when you go the buffet car, old man."
The difference is humour. 'The goat was subdued' etc. It was just that the silly sod did goat shagging by the main railway line! Serves him right.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13751
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I read the section. I don't care. I admit it. Some are hilarious, some bizarre, some pathetic.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13751
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R Guyon of the René Guyon Society?
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Dear Timmy,
probably. I'd never heard of the René Guyon society so I googled it. I bet it is the same man. I think it is a perversion of his views to say he was in favour of paedophilia.
From what I've read so far his views are the most sensible and coherent I've ever come across.
Love,
Anthony
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13751
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The society may (if it genuinely exists, a thing that is debatable) base its rationale for existence upon this man. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rene_Guyon has a minute amount more information.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Marek wrote:
A task rather than a job? Does it mean that he is not an inseminator but he works on his family's farm???
Marek, that's only one option. He could have been a member of a kibbutz or a Russian collective farm. Anyway, I have received from him permission to post the following.
J F R
Because I grew up on a farm with a very busy breeding operation for hogs and beef cattle, I learned about sex as soon as I could walk and ask questions. I learned about males and females and watched mating and artificial insemination and semen collection for the sperm banks and everything. For me it was just part of life. It's not gross or nasty to manage livestock, and sometimes breeding and semen collections are just part of the job that has to be done. Breeding animals, especially if the male is large and the female is small can be dangerous, and the males can seriously harm the females. A male in his rut will be very aggressive and really hurt a female if he attempts penetration in haste. Collecting their semen sounds funny and gross but it's really a way of protecting the animals and managing them properly. I manage livestock because it's my job and my family's role here. We're farmers and breeders, and that sometimes means I have to "jerk off pigs." I also have to collect semen from bulls and from stallions. This is my job and I'm not ashamed that I do it. Every livestock owner does, and it's taught in agricultural colleges and it's a science, not pornography.
Last year I turned 17 in September, and this summer dad put me in charge of the breeding registers, and the insemination records, and semen collections and the small lab we have. I computerized and cross referenced all our records and I'll get even more modernization ideas now that I'm in agricultural college. I had to put up with some good natured teasing from my non-agricultural friends about the "semen collection" part of the chores I have. I computerized 200 years of records, and now the bloodlines are easy to track. When the guys found out about collecting semen I was joked pretty well into the ground about being a "pig masturbator" and "jacking off the bulls." Then they saw how scientific it really is, and the lab work involved, and how everything has to be sterile, and the jokes stopped.
Three of the five farms have dairy operations, all with Holsteins. All the breeding is done through the Home Farm stud and semen stores and all of it through artificial insemination. Two farms have hog pens. I had been collecting semen from the prize boars and the bulls since I was much younger, and so I was familiar with all the lab work and record keeping. But now, since I got my hands on it, it's all computerized, and much easier to manage. We sell bull and boar semen for breeders, and I'm in charge of that too now.
No, I don't think about having sex with my livestock while I'm alone and jacking off or when I'm making love with someone else. I don't do more with the animals sexually than is strictly necessary to collect their sperm. Like I don't fondle Ike's or Patton's testicles while I masturbate them. Actually "masturbate the livestock" is an incorrect term. The males just naturally thrust into your hands or the artificial vagina and all I really do is guide the stream of ejaculate into the containers. Thinking about the animals as sex objects is something that just never crossed my mind.
Semen collections are very scientific, and great care has to be taken. For instance, a healthy boar will ejaculate in three distinct stages, only the middle stage is called sperm rich and is saved. The first part is mostly clear and is about 10ml and is followed by a small amount of a gel substance called "the plug." All of that fluid is discarded. The boar then ejaculates the sperm rich portion of the semen which is creamy and white or yellowish, like human semen, and that is collected and stored initially at 37deg C. It is usually about 10ml as well. The last portion of the semen is the largest, and contains very little viable sperm, and likewise is discarded. That last part is about 20 ml. Boars learn to enjoy semen collections, and will sometimes allow two or even three masturbation phases and collections before they voluntarily dismount from the artificial sow. Boars generally ejaculate over a time frame of 5-7 mins.
Like I said, I had been collecting semen from the boars and bulls for a few years, so I knew what I was doing. The animals are used to having their sperm collected, and the pigs especially are very intelligent creatures. When I appear with the latex gloves and the flasks, Ike or Patton will go into the little collecting pen and mount the artificial sow, then look at me like "ok, let's get it on!" But I still have to approach the bulls very carefully. I have found that any male animal will respond more readily to the collections if I take a cotton swab of the female animal's vaginal secretions and allow the male to sniff that and get aroused.
Breeding the horses "naturally" is delicate work too, because the male will most often have to have his penis guided into the mare's vagina. So his cock has to be held and directed until he can sense he's inside her and begin thrusting. Left to their own a lot of stallions are so horny they'll start bucking with their penis between a mares legs and their semen just gets wasted. Sometimes we let the stallion sniff the mare, and then let him mount an artificial mare so I can collect his semen.
Sure I get erections sometimes watching the animals and I think most males would, and I can't be ashamed of that. Watching the stallions is the most arousing for me, I don't know why, maybe because a stallion is just so beautiful, and when a horse is sexually aroused it's very impressive, We collect boar, equine, and bovine semen, and of all of them, masturbating horses turns me on the most. I hope you don't think that's too gross or sick. But even though it's sometimes arousing, I still wouldn't think of "having sex" with an animal.
So the bottom line to all the questions is this; male animals like to be masturbated and have ejaculations. I don't think the boy who was arrested was abusing his dog. I think he's a little odd and strange, and I think he needs to get out more, but he and his dog seemed to enjoy what they were doing. The kicker was the child pornography. They just added in the doggie sex to make him seem more perverted.
The paradox has often been noted that the United States, founded in secularism, is now the most religiose country in Christendom, while England, with an established church headed by its constitutional monarch, is among the least. (Richard Dawkins, 2006)
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I assume the business with the boars does not take place on a kibbutz.
Hugs
N
I dream of boys with big bulges in their trousers,
Never of girls with big bulges in their blouses.
…and look forward to meeting you in Cóito.
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Nigel wrote:
I assume the business with the boars does not take place on a kibbutz.
Don't you believe it! Since the enormous influx of Russian Jews to Israel the sale of what is euphemistically called here "white steaks" has burgeoned beyond belief. Until 20 years ago "white steaks" were more or less sold "under the counter" and where the counters were was rather like the speakeasies in the USA in the 1920's. Nowadays, shops proudly display signs that "white steaks" are for sale - usually in large Russian letters!
J F R
The paradox has often been noted that the United States, founded in secularism, is now the most religiose country in Christendom, while England, with an established church headed by its constitutional monarch, is among the least. (Richard Dawkins, 2006)
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JimB
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Likes it here |
Registered: December 2006
Messages: 349
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For a city boy that was very interesting and educational reading. Many thanks to your friend JFR.
JimB
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Serves him right! Timmy,
you begin to sound like Marc. (No offence meant or to Marc!)
Love,
Anthony
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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But who the flaming hell is Tuppy Simpson?
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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Tuppy Simpson - I remember Tuupy Simpson, lead singer in the seventies band Gorilla Snot. Used to play the air guitar as well. Got done by the police when one of the groupies found him curled up with a sheep in the VW campeer van they used to carry their gear. All in the Sunday Dispatch at the time.
[Updated on: Tue, 02 September 2008 07:14]
I dream of boys with big bulges in their trousers,
Never of girls with big bulges in their blouses.
…and look forward to meeting you in Cóito.
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13751
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Tuppy Simpson? Everyone knows Tuppy! Got his name for upping and tupping a sheep!
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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