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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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I don't do email.
The question stands.
[Updated on: Wed, 10 September 2008 15:22]
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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I don't do private e-mails on subjects like this, either. It affects all of us here, and has done for quite a while.
I consider myself among the tougher members, and I have to keep reminding myself of why I post here when we go through this all-too-regular-and-predictable scenario most months. Reading here this morning produced a sickening sense of "Oh God, not AGAIN!" The absence of younger people is very noticeable at the moment ...
Marc, you need to ask yourself why you feel such a need to test your on-line friendships so frequently. Either trust friendships, or don't. But please don't keep putting excessive strain on them, just to see if they can really be relied on - the answer is that sooner or later you will have weakened them to the point where they break.
And that would be a shame for all of us.
"The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral, begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy. ... Returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night devoid of stars." Martin Luther King
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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As I said previously,,,,, I have not a clue how I offended anyone.
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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Dear Marc,
I am lost. What question stands? This is a new thread and I don't know which thread to go back to.
I hear that you 'don't do email' but don't understand the significance of what you say. From other things I've read on A Place of Safety I can tell you have had private exchanges, and as addresses and phone numbers are not usually exchanged I thought they must have been by email. Was I wrong?
I really don't want to offend, but I do want to understand and even help if that's possible.
Love,
Anthony
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Marc, you wrote:
>Jordan, NOTE this..... I want nothing from you... on any level... your opinion least of all.<
If you don't understand that this post is rude and provocative, you will never understand what several board members are trying to tell you.
Hugs
N
I dream of boys with big bulges in their trousers,
Never of girls with big bulges in their blouses.
…and look forward to meeting you in Cóito.
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Marc, your further posts this morning (the pointed repeated refusal to accept an apology from JFR, and the continuance of your personal squabble with Jordan) are prime examples of the kind of behaviour that so many of us are currently deprecating.
Much of what you say is often interesting and valuable. But the way in which you choose to do so in (IMO) too often unacceptable.
If you truly do not have a clue how you continue to offend people, perhaps this will help. It's an over-the-top illustration, but may make the point clearer.
Imagine you have two friends, both of whom can make delightful and witty conversation.
One of them chain-smokes, and grinds the stubs out on your carpet. He pisses in the flower vase, because it suits him to. Even during conversation, he is so busy eating that you sometimes can't understand what he says through a mouthful of food, some of which inevitably sprays all over you and the furniture.
The other steps outside to smoke, is toilet trained, and finishes a mouthful before speaking.
It's to do with taking some notice of what makes other people comfortable, to paying some small observance to conventional behaviour, and communicating in a way where people can understand what you're trying to say. (I could write far more, but have to leave now to go to work)
This will probably get deleted, or get me reprimanded or stood on the naughty step ... but I don't feel we can go through this circus every month or so any longer!
"The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral, begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy. ... Returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night devoid of stars." Martin Luther King
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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First, I don't have 2 friends.
Second, you won't get places on the naughty step because your post is directed toward me.
And we all know how that goes.
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13751
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Much of the post is for all of us. Only the specifics are aimed at you. It is a useful item to learn from. Please learn from it. Folk who behave as the chain smoking vase urinating putative friend find that vases are put out of their reach and they are not invited onto the carpeted areas.
It is their choice.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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Am I to take that as a finger pointing to the door?
It's how I read it.
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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Fine..... I get the message......
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13751
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You should instead interpret it thus:
If you continue to behave in the way indicated then you will have made the decision that this place is not for you, and the consequent closing of the door with you on the outside will be perfectly acceptable to you.
If you behave as people wish you to behave then you will automatically remain welcome because you have indicated by your behaviour that you choose to stay.
This is a free choice, and it is your free choice. Do not for one moment dream that I will not lock the door.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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timmy wrote:
> You should instead interpret it thus:
>
> If you continue to behave in the way indicated then you will have made the decision that this place is not for you, and the consequent closing of the door with you on the outside will be perfectly acceptable to you.
>
> If you behave as people wish you to behave then you will automatically remain welcome because you have indicated by your behaviour that you choose to stay.
What about others playing by the same rules then????? You allow others to irritate me... you even acknowledge that they are irritating me and yet their postings remain.... Do you think this in any way causes my ire to lessen? Well just to be sure..... it doesn't.....
You are always quick to point out my errors but the swinging hand is in no way evenly struck.
>
> This is a free choice, and it is your free choice. Do not for one moment dream that I will not lock the door.
Lock it if you wish.... whatever........
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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Marc, you are not the victim, so stop trying to make yourself one. Time and again you have made inuindo and vailed comments about different people in the forum, you have made negative and hurtful comments about what others had to say. You have repeatedly attacked Jordon for no good reason. I asked Jordon what the problem was between you two and do you want to hear the answer? Jordon,"I took of the rose colored glasses". I have seen everybody on this board go out of their way to placate and codle you. Everybody, including myself, have much compassion for what you have had to go thru in your life, but that doesnt give you a reason to strike at others and try to hurt them. There is a side of you that others want to see and a person people want to talk to, but thats not the person you present here on the board. Think about it. I could think of no other way than to just come straight out and say it like it is. Nobody wants you to go, we just want you to be the person we know you can be.
I figure this is either going to get deleted or Im fixing to catch hell, but it had to be said. All your friends on the board, including Timmy, have been tip toeing around the issue. Its because they care about you and your feelings.
Sweet dreams till sunbeams find you......
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JimB
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Likes it here |
Registered: December 2006
Messages: 349
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I strive to be the best person that I can be. Naturally that leads to not hurting others. As much as I am offended by and recognize the harm caused by Marc's rude and belittling comments here I also recognize how important this forum is to him. And how much being banned from here would hurt him.
The mission of A Place of Safety is to provide gay adults and teens a place to discuss a wide range of topics and a place to get advice and help in dealing with the difficulties being gay presents in today's society. Maybe even advice and help in determining that it is worthwhile to continue life itself. That's a pretty significant mission and in my experience A Place of Safety is a fairly unique place. Can you imagine the feelings of the leadership of A Place of Safety if they received an email or a post here from someone who said that they came here and found the advice and resources that made the difference between suicide and continuing life? It would only take one such instance to make all the effort worthwhile.
Today we find a significant number of those participating at A Place of Safety to be offended by Marc's posts. Some not posting to avoid his wrath and others no longer participating at all; and still others concerned that those seeking help, the forum's primary mission, will not seek that help because of the argumentative tone they find here. Marc has repeatedly stated that he does not recognize the offensive, rude or harmful nature of his posts, which provides the leadership and other participants with no hope that the current situation with be improved.
It is obvious that for A Place of Safety to achieve its mission the current situation can not be allowed to continue. Timmy has expressed that it is Marc's choice, either change his ways or be unwelcome. As much as I don't want to see Marc hurt I must agree that the value of A Place of Safety overrides the needs of any single individual.
JimB
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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Curtis wrote:
There is a side of you that others want to see and a person people want to talk to
No... no one does.
>
> I figure this is either going to get deleted or Im fixing to catch hell, but it had to be said. All your friends on the board, including Timmy, have been tip toeing around the issue. Its because they care about you and your feelings.
What friends?????? Sorry, I just do not see friends...
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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case in point!
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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John..
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Toe is in the water |
Registered: March 2008
Messages: 56
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Hmm
Marc you will be the loser, you have posted here for a long time, your a nice guy but sometimes you have to stand back and allow other people to have an opinion.
your getting older now and the young do nip at our heals, that's life it does not mean that we are useless, we have to let the young through.
I was like you and I stoob back and looked in, guess what its fine.
:-/
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Im not talking about buddy buddy friends, Im not talking about the "hey lets go out and grab a burger" friends. But Ive seen the ones who talk to you when you have a problem or are hurt. I know one who came to your aid when you really needed it and gave as a friend and Im pretty sure there were others. these are guys who dont want to hurt your feelings all they want is for you to be the nice person they know you can be. Ive seen how you are when your being nice to someone and that is so much better than when you try and put someone down. Because you choose not to acknowlege or accept friendship, well, thats nobodys choice but yours, but it makes for a lonely world. Just try being nice and not so negative about everything. I know Im just a kid and you dont have to listen to me. I know I have a long way to go and a lot of road to travel. Im sure there are going to be things that will tend to make me bitter or angry, but I refuse to let it blind me to the beauty and honor this world has to offer.
Sweet dreams till sunbeams find you......
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Curt, I sing your praises always
you are my sincere truest of companions
and I will stand by you
You are the goods my friend
and its my pleasure to know you
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13751
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It seems to me that others, perhaps especially Curtis, have expressed my own sentiments very well.
To be very clear:
I do not want Marc to leave. I do not want him to leave because he needs this place, and I do not want him to leave because, whatever he thinks of me at present I am his true friend.
It is his free choice to stay or to continue with the behaviours that will result in his departure. I hope very much he chooses to stay. But the continuation of the behaviours that he has been exhibiting I will take as a conscious and informed decision on his part that he is leaving.
That will be a great shame, and I will feel that I have somehow failed my friend, but I will implement the departure.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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saben
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On fire! |
Registered: May 2003
Messages: 1537
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You are content to let yourself be shut out, yet it seems that is only because you want to be made a victim of, because then you'll be able to say how bad Timmy and everyone were to you.
People are quite mean to you. Threatening, irritating, I feel a lot of people treat you like crap, even when you are behaving, just because you have a different opinion.
But you're not a victim. You're a participant. This forum isn't a passive venture. Every time you type in iomfats.org and click on the Forum link, you're acknowledging the potential for discussion- both nice and nasty.
If you feel like you've been attacked, or that you have the potential to say something attacking to someone else. Don't click that link.
I'm not saying "stay away forever", but don't post while you are mad. Write the post, if it helps, but don't submit it. Just delete what you've written and find something else to do. This isn't just you, Marc. But anyone. I often delete what I've written here, the act of writing can give something to me without the act of reading that'd take something away from someone.
So stay away, but only as often as you need to.
Look at this tree. I cannot make it blossom when it suits me nor make it bear fruit before its time [...] No matter what you do, that seed will grow to be a peach tree. You may wish for an apple or an orange, but you will get a peach.
Master Oogway
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JimB
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Likes it here |
Registered: December 2006
Messages: 349
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That is good advice for everyone, Saben. 90% of my replies to posts here never leave my head.
JimB
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13751
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Saben wrote:
> You are content to let yourself be shut out
Again I hope very much that Marc will stay. I only want to clarify the freedom of choice he has. He will choose to stay, or he will chose to leave. If he leaves by choosing to continue to use inappropriate behaviour I will quietly lock the door. If, and I need to clarify this here, he takes a break and comes back, the same rules of conduct apply on his return. I am not locking the door behind a "non behaviour based" departure.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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I am standing in the room....
If you are going to talk about me do it directly to me or leave me out of it.
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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Glad you found a bit of time to contribute, Curtis. You're a hell of a kid.
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Marc,
What is a friend?
Brit
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Cameron
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Toe is in the water |
Registered: January 2008
Messages: 70
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timmy, if you went through the archives, I wonder how many thousands of
words have been said over this very same topic.
I think it's a lost cause.
It's unfortunate that this unrest has to happen so often. But, it's not any fault of yours, timmy. No one could try harder, or do more than you do to try and keep the peace.
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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I do not know.
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13751
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Marc, your signature line says, currently:
"Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow..."
And the post I'm replying to is the one where you say "I do not know" when asked what a friend is. I think, hope, that I know some of what a friend is. These are some of the things I measure friendship in, and others are, I hope, adding to the list or disagreeing with me.
These are the things I hope I bring to friendship. And I hope very much this will help you to know what a friend is: http://forum.iomfats.org/w-agora/view.php?site=forumiomfatsorg&bn=forumiomfatsorg_placeofsafety&key=1221293435
[Updated on: Sat, 13 September 2008 08:53]
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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