|
|
|
timmy
|
 |
Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13751
|
|
|
I have now been given the substance of the threats. This was the last straw.
I accept completely that the alleged moral majority has every right to monitor any web sites it wishes and to do whatever it wishes. What I will not tolerate is anyone setting himself up as the policeman here.
So Marc is now gone from here.
Many will say that I have been over lenient in the past, and those who say it may be right. But this holier than thou attitude that does not countenance even the discussion of anything that might be offensive is wholly unacceptable here. And an attitude of "I must report this to the authorities" is simply pompous, self justifying crap.
This seems to reverse the old adage. I must, it seems, "keep my enemies close and my friends closer still."
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Fingolfin
|
 |
Likes it here |
Location: Slovakia
Registered: August 2008
Messages: 265
|
|
|
If he changes his bahaviour and vocabulary, is he welcome ???
I suppose yes.
Marek
It is better to switch on a small light than to curse the darkness.
- Vincent Šikula, Slovak writer
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
timmy
|
|
Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13751
|
|
|
I have been given assurances before. Each time the cycle lasts a longer period before the behaviour changes. I will leave this to you all as a community and take no part in it except to implement what you all wish.
None of this is irrevocable. But do bear in mind that threats have no place here, and that is one assurance, a cast iron one, that has been broken.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Fingolfin
|
|
Likes it here |
Location: Slovakia
Registered: August 2008
Messages: 265
|
|
|
I understand these rules, Timmy, and honour them. However, it is a pity to lose anyone, especially when I have this feeling that Marc IS an intelligent guy, I agree with about half of his opinions. On the other hand, his points were steadily written in offensive and blunt manner. I will miss his views, not vocabulary...
Marek
P.S. Whatever happened, this makes me the ONLY Mark around, doesn't it ???
It is better to switch on a small light than to curse the darkness.
- Vincent Šikula, Slovak writer
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
saben
|
 |
On fire! |
Registered: May 2003
Messages: 1537
|
|
|
Marc was being a little better in his posts today.
Yesterday, I poked me, I poked back and his response was a threat that I didn't have a chance to see.
We're dealing with a site that has stories of boylove. Threatening to report someone for paedophilia... That's a horrible threat. Some (most?) people here likely do have attraction for teenagers. This place, we feel accepted. This site does not advocate breaking age of consent or child pornography laws, yet I like to think that a site dealing with content such as it deals with is able to discuss such things without levelling accusations of paedophilia or criminal activity at each other...
Threats should not be a part of this site.
But Marc was being more reasonable today.
I'm relieved and sad at the same time.
I don't know if Marc should be allowed back at any stage or not. But while I am still really upset at what he said (the details of which I don't even know) I forgive him... Age-based sex laws are a sensitive topic, it seems for Marc especially.
Look at this tree. I cannot make it blossom when it suits me nor make it bear fruit before its time [...] No matter what you do, that seed will grow to be a peach tree. You may wish for an apple or an orange, but you will get a peach.
Master Oogway
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
timmy
|
|
Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13751
|
|
|
There is a threshold. That threshold was stepped over. The consequences were known, expected, and administered.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
timmy
|
|
Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13751
|
|
|
I assure you that this is an outcome that I neither wanted nor chose.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I think it's pretty fundamental to this place that we don't have threats of running off to tell teacher! I may well be as irrational on this subject as marc was about child porn, and I'm aware of the risk that I see such threats where they weren't intended ...
The internet is public, and anyone can read any posts here. So it isn't a good idea to post identifiable details of anything illegal, of course. But (as a survivor of both physical and sexual abuse as a child) I've done so, and it has helped my healing. Helped to the point, in fact, where if any agency does pick up on this and try to prosecute people I've forgiven, for events nearly half a century ago, I will decline to testify.
But amongst ourselves - the regular posters, the occasional ones, the lurkers and the readers - I think the value of this place has been that we can agree to disagree, that we do actually trust each other enough to reveal things about ourselves and our lives that are pretty personal.
Marc has breached that trust, whether or not he has actually carried out his threats. He appears to have reneged on his "solem oath" given to me personally, as well as the board in general. I grieve the loss of the decent and honourable man I had always believed Marc to be, under his sometimes difficult manner - it's now clear to me that this was an "imaginary friend". But I would grieve the loss of this "Place of Safety", considerably more.
"The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral, begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy. ... Returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night devoid of stars." Martin Luther King
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
saben
|
|
On fire! |
Registered: May 2003
Messages: 1537
|
|
|
I know....
Look at this tree. I cannot make it blossom when it suits me nor make it bear fruit before its time [...] No matter what you do, that seed will grow to be a peach tree. You may wish for an apple or an orange, but you will get a peach.
Master Oogway
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
timmy
|
|
Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13751
|
|
|
I am sad about the outcome, sadder that I seem also to have lost a long standing friendship (to which the door is always open). I think NW expresses it simply and well, and, unless anyone has anything useful to add, suggest we carry on about our business.
I am very sad that it has happened.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Mark, sorry to disappoint you but my christian name is also Mark. Except for when I am in Greece where I am often called Marek by my friends there.
aqua
[Updated on: Thu, 30 October 2008 14:51]
There is a sacredness in tears. They are not the mark of weakness, but of power. They speak more eloquently than ten thousand tongues. They are the messengers of overwhelming grief, of deep contrition, and of unspeakable love. Washington Irving
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Fingolfin
|
|
Likes it here |
Location: Slovakia
Registered: August 2008
Messages: 265
|
|
|
Wow, I'm so glad to see this, Aqualino, in fact I haven't met a person whom I share name with that I would completely dislike... I'm always delighted to find this namebearer... Glad to meet you Mar(e)k.
Mark aka Marek
It is better to switch on a small light than to curse the darkness.
- Vincent Šikula, Slovak writer
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Mark, thank you for the compliment and I hope I am worthy of it. I rather like it when I am called Marek, as I find this to be a pleasant sounding version of my name. It also helps that the area of Florida that I live in has a large population of eastern European immigrants and I have made friends with many in my neighbourhood. As a matter of fact, there is a Ukrainian festival going on this week at the large (and very beautiful) church on the next block. Excellent food and wonderful crafts for sale and the name Marek on quite a few name tags.
aqua
ne: Mar(e)k
There is a sacredness in tears. They are not the mark of weakness, but of power. They speak more eloquently than ten thousand tongues. They are the messengers of overwhelming grief, of deep contrition, and of unspeakable love. Washington Irving
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Fingolfin
|
|
Likes it here |
Location: Slovakia
Registered: August 2008
Messages: 265
|
|
|
Marek is a popular name nowadays here in Slovakia as well... And you prefer to be called like that. I like it . My given name is Marek, however, the English-speaking world usually finds Mark easier...
Marek
It is better to switch on a small light than to curse the darkness.
- Vincent Šikula, Slovak writer
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Benji
|
|
Likes it here |
Location: USA
Registered: August 2007
Messages: 297
|
|
|
I may get grief for saying this, but Marc's departure doesn't surprise me. He was an intelligent speaker on this forum, his wit was always sarcastic and most importantly his 'people' skills' was highly lacking. I don't care that he had all this multitude of problems, my sympathy ran out a long time ago with his personal tirades against members views on this site. I highly doubt that he will ever change, it is too bad, but he was his own worst enemy.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
timmy
|
|
Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13751
|
|
|
You should all be aware, if you were not already, that we have a watcher here, and one who is watching in what I interpret to be a hostile manner.
I had a conversation yesterday with Marc where he complained of a lack of even handedness. He referred to a post which apparently condemned him to hell. I may have seen it, I may not have seen it. I do not monitor all posts. On the basis of my telling him this he has responded to me thus:
> I have considered. Your reasoning regarding [X's] condemnation of me to the depths of hell, i.e.. "I don't read every post" screams to me that you applied a hand most uneven. Therefore, my answer is yes, I will be the moral monitor, I will watch.
I interpret this as yet another threat. It has confirmed my decision to exclude him from participation. I am placing this here to remind us that this is absolutely not a place to solicit sexual adventures, especially with those far younger than one's self. This is not a dating service, a contact service, or anything except a place where decent, like minded folk with homosexuality in common (or who are touched by homosexuality in their lives and wish to learn more) may express hopes fears and issues in an atmosphere that is intended to be conducive to a warm spirited response.
Be aware that the internet is reasonably safe, but only anonymous when one is not the subject of any form of criminal investigation. It is just as unwise today as it was yesterday to state "I am a creator or avid watcher of kiddieporn" here, whether that is the truth or not, since that is likely to bring an investigation down on you whether we have this self styled moral monitor sitting there or not.
What it should not do is to discourage those in pain from expressing their pain and hoping for a gentle hand with advice, comradeship and help. No-one is interested in finding out who you are, and no-one is interested in monitoring your morals.
What we have now is a board that is free from the strident yells of "If oyu say that you must be a paedophile!" or similar bullshit that we have had previously. So feel free, wisely, to express yourself and to give and accept help and advice.
Perhaps you see now why I was so slow in barring Marc from here. This nasty little schoolyard threat was always going to arrive in one manner or another. I had hoped he would have left differently, but it appears that is not to be.
Marc, you have no right of reply to this, so I will tell you clearly: I am sorry that it has come to this. Yesterday I told you that the door to continuing our friendship was open. Today, finally, and with overnight thought, you have slammed and locked that door. I will not be trying to open it. I hope you find some happiness in your life, I hope it truly. It is time to stop pushing people away and burning your bridges, and it is time to move on with your life and become content.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
timmy wrote:
> You should all be aware, if you were not already, that we have a watcher here, and one who is watching in what I interpret to be a hostile manner.
>
> I had a conversation yesterday with Marc where he complained of a lack of even handedness. He referred to a post which apparently condemned him to hell. I may have seen it, I may not have seen it. I do not monitor all posts. On the basis of my telling him this he has responded to me thus:
>
> > I have considered. Your reasoning regarding [X's] condemnation of me to the depths of hell, i.e.. "I don't read every post" screams to me that you applied a hand most uneven. Therefore, my answer is yes, I will be the moral monitor, I will watch.
I'd pretty much assumed that this would be the case. I have to say, though, that the thought of someone who can apparently casually disregard his "solem oath" explicitly setting himself up as a "moral monitor" made me splutter a mouthful of coffee all over my keyboard!
As for the depths of hell, the only person who can put anyone there is themself ... and the only hope of redemption lies through oneself. I think several of us on the board have been though this, one way or another. I hope that Marc does eventually find his own path out.
"The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral, begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy. ... Returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night devoid of stars." Martin Luther King
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
timmy
|
|
Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13751
|
|
|
I shall send you a tissue for your keyboard.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Cameron
|
 |
Toe is in the water |
Registered: January 2008
Messages: 70
|
|
|
timmy, I'm sorry you had to go through this. You must know it is not your fault. You have always been patient, forgiving and understanding with Marc. In return for this, he was rude and obnoxious most of the time.
I'm sorry he has had tragedy in his life. Still, it's not an excuse for his behavior. He has the ability to change if he wants to. He has said on many occasions "that's just the way I am". I don't think he will ever change because he thinks he is right and everyone else is wrong, he sees no reason to change himself.
For these reasons, I am glad he is gone. I hope he gets some help.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
james
|
 |
Getting started |
Location: England
Registered: September 2008
Messages: 24
|
|
|
hi and stormy here
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Welcome James, I look forward to hearing more from you.
Love,
Anthony
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
timmy
|
|
Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13751
|
|
|
I am glad that the behaviour has gone. I am sorry that the man has gone, but he seemed to associate himself irrevocably with the behaviour. I feel as though we have somehow failed him.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
timmy wrote:
(snip)
> I feel as though we have somehow failed him.
Only, perhaps, in the sense that we (collectively) have failed to help him find the incentive to change his behaviour: to break out of a spiral of behaviour that requires increasing proofs of friendship that ultimately tests them to-and-beyond destruction.
Ultimately, while others can help and advise, we all have to reach our own realisations in our own time, and take our decisions accordingly. Marc has not yet reached the point of really seeing the need to change ... but perhaps nevertheless we've helped him a few steps on the way.
"The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral, begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy. ... Returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night devoid of stars." Martin Luther King
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
timmy
|
|
Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13751
|
|
|
Under all the armour he is a very good man
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I, for one, am glad to know that, Timmy.
Perhaps I'm unforgiving, but I *was* unforgiving.
Love,
Anthony
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Benji
|
|
Likes it here |
Location: USA
Registered: August 2007
Messages: 297
|
|
|
Sorry, but if I can interject here, Marc was his own worst enemy and he spewed his diastase amoungst everyone evenly. He has probably driven away others from this site from his sardonic, sarcastic nature, and 'my way or the highway' views in response's to anyone's else's views. I for one am not sorrowed by his absence, the very nature of the site was for a safety outlet, not a a sounding board for ones caustic opinions such as Marc's.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
timmy
|
|
Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13751
|
|
|
While you are not incorrect, the purpose of the site is to try very hard to help those in pain. That makes it the more challenging when one in pain exhibits very difficult behaviour and does that because of the pain they are in.
There does come a point when the behaviour outweighs the attempts to help, and that point was well and truly reached, but how does one judge when to cease offering help and remove the behaviour?
It is not as simple as "If person A drives person B away then person A must go," but it can seem to be like that. The thing is that person B ought to be able to learn from person A's behaviour and actually take something positive from it, even if it is "I will never behave like that." We all learn not to rise to bait when we handle a provocative behaviour, even if the ride, for the time of the behaviour, is unpleasant. We learn how to deprive such behaviour of the oxygen of replies, and we start to ignore it.
I am not at all sorrowed by the absence of the behaviour. I am sorrowed that the man was unable to divorce himself from the behaviour, because, until he demonstrated that he would not do so, the man was welcome though the behaviour was not.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
|
|
|
|
|
Goto Forum:
|
] 
A Place of Safety
Search
Help
Register
Login
Home
