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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13751
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How true is that?
People have been kind enough to say that I have some facility for storytelling, a skill I never knew I had until I plunged in. But that is just an example. The post is not about me.
Does everyone have a hidden ability to tell stories, or are some people destined always to be the listener?
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Macky
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Really getting into it |
Location: USA
Registered: November 2008
Messages: 973
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I think that anyone can write a half decent story, but not everyone has the self discipline to do so. I have at least 2 that I have been sitting on but can't rouse myself to write. If someone has a good story but no time to polish it up for publication, this forum is a good place to ask for editing help. BUt you still have to have the self-discipline to put your story together.
Behold, how good and how pleasant it is
For brothers to dwell together in unity!
Ps 133:1 NASB
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Cameron
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Toe is in the water |
Registered: January 2008
Messages: 70
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I don't think "anyone" can write. Some people, myself included, will have to be content to be listeners.
You write much better than half decent. Chris and Nigel is still one of my all time favourite stories.
Cameron
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ray2x
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Really getting into it |
Location: USA
Registered: April 2009
Messages: 429
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All societies and cultures have their shamans and doctors. They possess the skills to instruct the values of culture. Timmy can tell a story, write a story, develop a story. Raymundo can listen to the stories and take its lessons and retell it to his daughter or son or other people. The gift of telling and the gift of listening. Made for each other (hmmm).
Raymundo
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Well, Timmy, it may be so but I've never written anything imaginary that I thought was any good.
I've done a huge amount of technical writing and have edited and translated things. I like to think I'm quite good at the mechanical process of putting meaning into words. What I haven't yet done well is to control the emotional overtones so that they bring something else to the reader than the bare facts.
And I don't know how to do that - at least I think I don't.
Love,
Anthony
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13751
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The thing is, and I am not simply replying to you alone, to try. What can one lose?
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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I think that I have excellent right and left brain skills. I can get my 7th graders to make music, not just play notes. I can take apart a car engine and rebuild it. I can write a hell of a recommendation letter, but I can not put 10 words together creatively. Any story I might write would read like an instruction manual.
Edit: for grammar. HA, go figure.
[Updated on: Sat, 09 May 2009 14:26]
Cycling is the one sport where a guy can shave his legs, wear spandex and bright colors, and be accepted.
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JimB
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Likes it here |
Registered: December 2006
Messages: 349
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timmy wrote:
> How true is that?
>
Not true at all. All you have to do is visit the Nifty Archive to learn that some people who try can't and many don't even try.
JimB
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13751
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But Nifty is friction. I submit that the authors there that we think to be poor simply wrote it to get to orgasm.
Their stories met their need.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13751
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I'm still with "why not try?"
The difference between a story and a letter of recommendation is just the medium. One is formal, the other can be fanciful. Hmmm. Now which is which?
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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JimB
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Likes it here |
Registered: December 2006
Messages: 349
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Their story may have met their need but some of them are lousy stories (read not half decent). They have poor structure, poor grammar, sometimes lack a plot.
We're talking literary value, are we not, not orgasmic value. Even half decent writing takes skill and talent that not everyone has.
JimB
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i've had a story in mind for a while. several of the characters i can imagin perfectly. however, like mentioned above, i don't have the dicipline to sit down to write what i imagin in my head. also English is not my first language; to edit for errors would take me a while to do.
i think if i can finish one chapter, i can probably push myself to go on. again, ill just need the motivation to do so.
You don't love someone because they are beautiful, they are beautiful because you love them.
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Friction fiction - I like that.
Hugs
N
I dream of boys with big bulges in their trousers,
Never of girls with big bulges in their blouses.
…and look forward to meeting you in Cóito.
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13751
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I think the issue there is different. Nifty does not discourage crap. thus crap predominates. If the poor stories received a polite "no thank you" and some sort of style guide, those who wished would do better.
I still suspect that anyone can do it. The issue seems to be motivation and guidance. Nifty provides motivation to submit trash and have it "published"
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13751
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If you wrote it anyway knowing that a friend would edit it, would that be motivation enough? If so there are some good editors here.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13751
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As those who are alert will see today, one has arrived on the site.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Yes, Timmy and I think a triumphant success too.
Love,
Anthony
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... albeit with a short tug in the right direction from you.
An often poignant, truly evocative and emotive tale; one that many of our generation (yours and mine Timmy) share.
It's always in the smile, isn't it?
Warren C. E. Austin
Toronto, Canada
"... comme recherché qu'un délice callipygian"
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13751
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or in the turn of the head, or the glint in the eye. But usually in the smile, or the hint or promise of a smile. As long as the eyes smile too.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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saben
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On fire! |
Registered: May 2003
Messages: 1537
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I know I could write a half decent story. But I'm lazy. It's too easy to think of all the pages ahead instead of focusing on starting. It's much easier to write a forum post. I can churn out 2000 decent words without trying ranting on a subject I'm interested in and I've done similar things when I was part of an online roleplaying community. But "a story", "an essay", start putting big dreadful words to these things and I'm put off.
I'd be more likely to write a fantasy epic akin to Lord of the Rings than gay fiction, though. I'd touch on gay and political themes, of course. I have the world in my head I just haven't built the story out of it.
In general, in terms of fiction I think I'm better at building worlds and broad plots than I am actual story.
[Updated on: Mon, 11 May 2009 16:08]
Look at this tree. I cannot make it blossom when it suits me nor make it bear fruit before its time [...] No matter what you do, that seed will grow to be a peach tree. You may wish for an apple or an orange, but you will get a peach.
Master Oogway
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When I got laid off from my job a few years back, I discovered Nifty. At this time I knew nothing about iomfats or any of the other quality story sites. I got extremely put off when a story I was enjoying just ended abruptly - was never finished. Then the real aggravation was in wading through piles of trash in search of the occasional gem. It was the large number of bad stories though that gave me the courage to attempt writing one of my own. I knew I could do as least as well as the worst of them and possibly better. That's when I discovered it was even more fun to construct a story than to read them. My spelling was okay because I had a spell checker but my grammar was atrocious. I had people write to me and volunteer to edit for me and that helped tremendously until, eventually, I learned a little more about proper sentence construct and punctuation. Today my editor helps me more in plot development than in correcting grammatical mistakes. (Although I still screw up my colons and semi-colons... lol.) I feel I've grown in my abilities and, if I could, I'd erase my first two stories from the net altogether.
Anyway, my primary point is that I didn't feel I was initially very good. I kept going because it was fun and because people wrote me back. But it's pretty much like anything else in life; you get better at a thing the more you practice at it. I guess you never know until you try writing and may even find that you get hooked on it. Don't be afraid to attempt it simply because you fear discovering that you aren't the next Pulitzer prise author. Get yourself a pen name and throw something up on Nifty - they'll take anything. Do you know they even have a non-sex category?
Youth crisis hot-line 866-488-7386, 24 hr (U.S.A.)
There are people who want to help you cope with being you.
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Paul Schroder wrote:
>Although I still screw up my colons and semi-colons... lol.<
Seriously though, colons and semi-colons are luxuries, not necessities. It is possible to write a well punctuated story without using either.
Hugs
Nigel
I dream of boys with big bulges in their trousers,
Never of girls with big bulges in their blouses.
…and look forward to meeting you in Cóito.
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13751
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I must be almost unique. I had a story rejected by Nifty! I was perplexed,. too!
I am also not happy about my early efforts, but they show that progress can be made. I choose not to re-write them. They are my history.
I'm glad you separate writing and editing. I believe that anyone who bothers can write a half decent story. It is the "bothers" part that is the key.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13751
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You did. And I published it.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13751
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What I find amazing is not the lack of quality of the less than good tales on Nifty, but the lack of any care in setting some of them out legibly! It;s the same level of effort to present crap as to present a legible finished work.
Even so I think even those authors, poor grammar and spelling notwithstanding, can write a half decent story given some guidance.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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saben
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On fire! |
Registered: May 2003
Messages: 1537
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That was a long time ago. I'm quite embarrassed by the level of my writing/ editing back then! Only reason I got off my butt to write that through to completion was because it was a school assignment. Still I sometimes I forget that I did write. And I could write. And perhaps I should write.
Look at this tree. I cannot make it blossom when it suits me nor make it bear fruit before its time [...] No matter what you do, that seed will grow to be a peach tree. You may wish for an apple or an orange, but you will get a peach.
Master Oogway
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Writers develop and change during the the time they write. My stories have been written over a timespan of twelve years, that is since I retired.
I always had the urge to write a gay porn story because closeted as I was/am it was the only way to overcome certain frustrations. I wrote it, posted it on Nifty and another American site. Then 2003/4 I discovered iomfats and wanted to repatriate my works to England and have never published abroad since.
With my first two stories written I felt liberated from emotional baggage. My third story wrote itself. I don't how. I just sat at the keyboard and typed. (Similarly with my latest published story.) After that I either concentrated on problems I met growing up (I'm trying to avoid the word 'issues'.), then I had the opportunity for some frivolity and pure imagination.
Two things I do not deny. One is being influenced by my favourite authors and the other is, as Bertolt Brecht did both unswervingly and successfully throughout his literary life, make adaptations from others' works.
Meanwhile writing has given me great pleasure, and others too I hope, but I have slowed down as I have run out of things to say and the Muse doesn't inspire as much as it did.
Btw, perhaps I shouldn't say this, but minimal planning goes into my stories. They are there inside me and will out - which brings us back to the theme of this thread.
Hugs
N
[Updated on: Fri, 15 May 2009 08:25]
I dream of boys with big bulges in their trousers,
Never of girls with big bulges in their blouses.
…and look forward to meeting you in Cóito.
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13751
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Then you can improve. But you have proved your initial competence.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13751
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Planning is only important when you want to set more than a general direction to the tale. Going with the flow is perfectly fine. Following a plan is harde, sometimes.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Macky
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Really getting into it |
Location: USA
Registered: November 2008
Messages: 973
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I couldn't find Saben's story. Is it still on the shelf?
Behold, how good and how pleasant it is
For brothers to dwell together in unity!
Ps 133:1 NASB
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saben
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On fire! |
Registered: May 2003
Messages: 1537
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Quondam Manitou was my online handle back then.
Look at this tree. I cannot make it blossom when it suits me nor make it bear fruit before its time [...] No matter what you do, that seed will grow to be a peach tree. You may wish for an apple or an orange, but you will get a peach.
Master Oogway
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Amazing happenstance, Saben. I read that story two days ago! Thank you very much.
Love,
Anthony
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Macky
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Really getting into it |
Location: USA
Registered: November 2008
Messages: 973
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Saben,
It is a great story and I am glad you wrote it down and Timmy published it. I liked the interspersed poems, the letters and Journal entries that just popped up. Sentence structure wasn't the best I've ever seen, but the story is powerful.
Behold, how good and how pleasant it is
For brothers to dwell together in unity!
Ps 133:1 NASB
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johnleeb
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Toe is in the water |
Location: USA
Registered: January 2009
Messages: 44
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Half decent, perhaps, but a very good story the can really bring out emotions, and has proper punctuation, spelling, and grammar?
One of the problems with a lot of writers is the use of the spelling and grammar tools of such packages as MS Word (and to a lesser extent, OpenOffice Writer). They will often confuse the writer who doesn't really know the language well, and get something accepted as correct when it is indeed not.
And schools in the US are currently failing to properly prepare students. I have been around long enough to have gotten a very good education in high school. One thing that helped was taking French (I don't remember any of that) in that it taught me verb conjugation in English that was lacking in my English classes. (I took French to be able sit right behind a cute boy, who has since married and has kids. I never did speak to him.)
My favorite authors on IOMFATS are Grasshopper and Kiwi. They can keep a story exciting, active through several years and multiple generations of story time, and consistently bring out emotions.
And I have one I am preparing that still has some work to be done on it.
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Hi, John, and welcome to the board. I'm looking forward to reading your pending story. Will Timmy be posting it?
Please, guys, don't be put off by your possible lack of training in grammar or spelling. If you can write a story that can engage a reader then any potential hosting site will help provide you with an editor/proof-reader. I never sent Timmy the first story I posted on Nifty because it was a grammatical mess. My later stories had the benefit of near professional editing. I suggest you just start pounding it out and worry about cleaning it up later. Eventually you will have fewer and fewer mistakes for a proof reader to pick up.
Youth crisis hot-line 866-488-7386, 24 hr (U.S.A.)
There are people who want to help you cope with being you.
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johnleeb
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Toe is in the water |
Location: USA
Registered: January 2009
Messages: 44
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I haven't had a conversation with Timmy about it yet. I'll probably do that after he returns from his trip.
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13751
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If the story is good, by which I mean that it paints a picture in my head (the major acceptance criterion), then grammar, punctuation and spelling can be sorted out later. Perfection is not required.
There are things here: http://iomfats.org/storyshelf/guide/writing.html that need to be understood, though, and at least aspired to!
What upsets me is a "lazy author" - one who suddenly rushes to the conclusion without leading me there. I can always tell when a writer gets bored and rushes.
Sex is important only if it's important. I want fiction, not friction! And fiction can contain as many orgasms as you choose, provided they are relevant.
Send it to me when you are happy with it, but do know that I may not say "yes". And understand that is not a rejection per se. It means simply that you have asked me for an opinion and my opinion is not always "Wow, yes please!"
I do not always accept a second story when I did the first, and I have been known not to take the first and take the second.
But a plea, too. PLEASE get apostrophes correct! That drives me nuts!
[Updated on: Mon, 25 May 2009 21:55]
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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saben
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On fire! |
Registered: May 2003
Messages: 1537
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I think it's interesting that you mention grasshopper's writing while simultaneously mentioning writing with bad spelling and grammar. I don't think spelling and grammar has to be perfect to be good. "Perfect" spelling and grammar doesn't exist anyway. Language changes and grasshopper's writing really embraces a lot of language change.
But as timmy says, lazy writers are annoying too. Laziness is a different beast to just simplified spelling/ grammar. Personally I am a fan of more antiquated varieties of English. But English spelling is and should be in a constant state of flux. To try and resist it is incorrect.
Look at this tree. I cannot make it blossom when it suits me nor make it bear fruit before its time [...] No matter what you do, that seed will grow to be a peach tree. You may wish for an apple or an orange, but you will get a peach.
Master Oogway
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johnleeb
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Toe is in the water |
Location: USA
Registered: January 2009
Messages: 44
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I had no intention of implying that Grasshopper's writing has bad grammar or spelling. Simply that it really appeals to emotions and exhibits love.
There are lots of stories on nifty that could have been good, but I could never finish reading them. They need editing and don't often get it.
Spelling: if to, two, and too are used at the wrong places it is every distracting. Likewise where someone uses uses layed where they mean laid, and the dozens of other verbs that have traditionally, different spelling than the present form.
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) Oh gosh, that's a good one Nigel! 
