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You are here: Home > Forum > A Place of Safety > General Talk > Have you ever seen a perfect boy?
Have you ever seen a perfect boy?  [message #57815] Thu, 16 July 2009 14:49 Go to next message
timmy

Has no life at all
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13739



I ask this in all seriousness. I know I've seen boys that have made me gasp in admiration, but I have never, not once, see a perfect boy.

I can list what made me gasp about individual boys, and also what makes each gasp-inducer imperfect.

Have you ever seen a perfect boy? Be prepared to try to describe him.



Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
Re: Have you ever seen a perfect boy?  [message #57817 is a reply to message #57815] Thu, 16 July 2009 17:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Macky is currently offline  Macky

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Location: USA
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Messages: 973



Oh dear, I may be throwing myself under a bus with this one, but yes, I have seen a perfect boy. Whats more, I have known him intimately. And, surprisingly, whenever I evaluate a boy's looks and personality, it is this boy's gestalt that they are evaluated against. My perfect boy is the adolescent me. He was a lonely, innocent, hurting, social nincompoop. The adolescent knew and despised these characteristics of himself. However the adult finds the same characteristics attractive, rendering the youth perfect. So go figure.

I have seen lots of boys who look fantastic. Strawberry blond hair with blue eyes,long legs, and a graceful manner of carrying themselves. But without knowing the intricacies of their personalities, they can not match up against the "perfect boy".

Narcissus



Behold, how good and how pleasant it is
For brothers to dwell together in unity!
Ps 133:1 NASB
Only in my mind  [message #57818 is a reply to message #57815] Thu, 16 July 2009 18:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
saben is currently offline  saben

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I've imagined perfect boys and I've seen boys that I've imagined to be perfect. But I'm sure that anyone I've seen as perfect is only perfect because I haven't seen them close enough.

Cinema knows well enough that no-one is perfect, which is why there is extensive use of make-up and camera tricks to try and make teen idols appear closer to perfect. But while some people may be exceptionally attractive every boy will still get pimples (to some degree), every boy will still have bodily flaws.



Look at this tree. I cannot make it blossom when it suits me nor make it bear fruit before its time [...] No matter what you do, that seed will grow to be a peach tree. You may wish for an apple or an orange, but you will get a peach.
Master Oogway
Re: Have you ever seen a perfect boy?  [message #57819 is a reply to message #57817] Thu, 16 July 2009 18:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
timmy

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Interesting call. I look at the younger me and I'd certainly have found me attractive, but not perfect.



Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
Re: Only in my mind  [message #57820 is a reply to message #57818] Thu, 16 July 2009 18:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
timmy

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A pimple is a transient flaw, though, like a scratch that heals.



Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
Re: Have you ever seen a perfect boy?  [message #57821 is a reply to message #57819] Thu, 16 July 2009 19:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Macky is currently offline  Macky

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So what flaws do you see in the younger you to render your adult impression of that boy imperfect? Perfection is as subjective as beauty. What is perfect for me is not necessarily perfect for you. How would the adult you modify the boy you in order to make your present view of him perfect?



Behold, how good and how pleasant it is
For brothers to dwell together in unity!
Ps 133:1 NASB
Re: Have you ever seen a perfect boy?  [message #57822 is a reply to message #57821] Thu, 16 July 2009 19:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
timmy

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Location: UK, in Devon
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Messages: 13739



That is surprisingly easy. Physically I have always has what one would describe in England as 'prop forward's thighs', meaning rather heavy legs, albeit muscular. Never anything other than scrawny as a kid, my legs were always disproportionately heavy. In terms of proportion the rest of me was so skinny as not to be buoyant in a swimming pool.

I'm no judge of facial perfection or otherwise in myself. I think I had the fortune to be a decent looking kid, between phases of not being so, but I'm looking at the entire package.

I also had an unpleasing attitude. I spent my life pushing people away, rudely, callously, with sarcasm or just with unpleasantness. One can be as perfect as can be physically, which I wasn't, but an unprepossessing demeanour removes any good things.



Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
Re: Have you ever seen a perfect boy?  [message #57823 is a reply to message #57815] Thu, 16 July 2009 19:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Nigel is currently offline  Nigel

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I once tried to define the perfect boy and ended up with quite a list of attributes. However, the project failed because I couldn't breathe life into him.

The main characters I portray in my stories approach perfection, which is subjective anyway, not because I invented them. Quite the opposite - because I have known or seen them in real life.

The perfection of a boy is fleeting. It may last weeks, possibly months, but certainly not years. If you are lucky it is captured in a photograph.

Hugs
Nigel



I dream of boys with big bulges in their trousers,
Never of girls with big bulges in their blouses.

…and look forward to meeting you in Cóito.
Re: Only in my mind  [message #57824 is a reply to message #57820] Thu, 16 July 2009 19:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
saben is currently offline  saben

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I guess you could say that about pimples.

But most people are lopsided in one way or another, at least upon close inspection.

Some guys that I think are hot have "weird" toenails (by my standards at least). Or a freckle/ mole in the wrong place. Or perhaps they have a scar. Or perhaps their foreskin is too long. Or perhaps their body hair grows in an irregular manner.

That isn't to diminish the attractiveness of any such hot boy. But it does, by my reckoning, diminish their perfection.

But to me there is something to be said for imperfection. It's the imperfections that often entice, excite or arouse me.

I used to want a perfect boy, but I think now I'd be every bit as happy with an imperfect one.

Of course, some would call my "imperfect" perfect, because perfection to them is more about compatibility than it is about some objective state. Fair enough, but to me perfect is (at least broadly) objective and as such none of us measure up. And thank god!



Look at this tree. I cannot make it blossom when it suits me nor make it bear fruit before its time [...] No matter what you do, that seed will grow to be a peach tree. You may wish for an apple or an orange, but you will get a peach.
Master Oogway
Re: Have you ever seen a perfect boy?  [message #57825 is a reply to message #57823] Thu, 16 July 2009 19:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
saben is currently offline  saben

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Messages: 1537



Nigel, would I be right in assuming that the list of attributes at times started to conflict with itself?

I think the perfect boy for me would have to be a shapeshifter. A cute submissive asian one day. A boisterous sporty red-head the next. An intellectual blue eyed "prince" the next.

I have so many combinations of "perfect", many of them with interchangeable attributes. But many of the attributes are also incompatible.

My perfect boy would be intelligent, but not so intelligent that he challenges my mind. He'd disagree with me, but only when I wanted him to. He'd be adventurous and want to try new things, while being timid and shy relying on me to push him. He'd be entirely committed to me, but not jealous if I wasn't committed in return. He'd be sporty and love the outdoors, while being a computer nerd and a consummate bookworm. He'd be everything I wished I was as a teenager, yet turning out remarkably similar.

I could never craft a perfect boy. I don't even know how to craft a perfect self to aspire to. But there's not enough hours in the day for perfection.

I can't read all the books I want, make all the money I want, meet all the people I want to meet, go all the places I want to go, get fit, eat healthily, play all the computer games I want to play to the level I want to play them. Maybe I'm too strict in my notion of "perfection", but I'm more than happy to have a strict definition and then to just discard "perfection" as an ideal not worth striving for.



Look at this tree. I cannot make it blossom when it suits me nor make it bear fruit before its time [...] No matter what you do, that seed will grow to be a peach tree. You may wish for an apple or an orange, but you will get a peach.
Master Oogway
Re: Only in my mind  [message #57826 is a reply to message #57824] Thu, 16 July 2009 23:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
timmy

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Location: UK, in Devon
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Asymmetry is not a lack of perfection. It's an attribute that everyone has and we are used to and enjoy.



Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
Re: Have you ever seen a perfect boy?  [message #57827 is a reply to message #57822] Fri, 17 July 2009 00:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Macky is currently offline  Macky

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"I also had an unpleasing attitude."

Do you mean that you knowingly disdained people? What do you think made you have an attitude like that? You must have thought that other people were...I don't know what. Did these people threaten you somehow physically or mentally? Did you not want to be bothered in your single-minded pursuit of John? Was any non-John person pushed away, as you were totally consumed in your admiration of him? Were you, perhaps, a blemish hunter, looking for the worst in people and pushing them away when you saw a flaw in their character? As an adolescent, I was a bit of a blemish hunter. I would pick out the nicest boy I could find and watch him until I saw a personality defect that I felt made him inferior to myself. A really terrible thing for a "perfect boy" to do, right? But I know the insecurity that I felt that made me do that. And the whole exercise was in my mind only; it did not affect how I interacted. It was just a way I dealt with my own perceived inadequacies. With that knowledge I can still consider the lad that was me "the most perfect little boy in the world".



Behold, how good and how pleasant it is
For brothers to dwell together in unity!
Ps 133:1 NASB
icon6.gif Re: Have you ever seen a perfect boy?  [message #57831 is a reply to message #57815] Fri, 17 July 2009 02:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
e is currently offline  e

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Messages: 1179



Yes, without a doubt. Oddly enough he was modeling on a gay teen website. The site describes him as 5'7" and 154 lbs. He is athletic and well muscled without looking like a weightlifter. He has a mysterious smile that makes him appear distant or aloof, but with friendly, inviting eyes. His hair is light brown and he has brown eyes. His skin is tanned evenly and all over. His is hairless except in all the right places, though he obviously shaves his underarms. It doesn't appear that a razor has ever touched his face, nor has it needed to. What's amazing to me is that he has modeled several times for this site over 3+ years and doesn't appear to have aged at all. For me, he is perfection.

He is so perfect that I named my puppyboy after him, Carlos. I even gave him a physical description that I thought he may have had when he was younger. However, I gave my puppyboy different eye and hair color.

Think good thoughts,
e
Re: Have you ever seen a perfect boy?  [message #57832 is a reply to message #57831] Fri, 17 July 2009 04:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ray2x is currently offline  ray2x

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The perfect boy occupied a rather prominent place in my dream state as a reoccuring character. He was a slender red haired freckled face lad, hazel eyes about 5', maybe a 12 year old. He always walked with me and we would chat or talk during the walk. Occasionally, we held hands. But there was no sexual experiences or erotic moments. He just was a boy who was with me (as well as a young woman and a older man). I had so many dreams with him that I considered him "my son". When my wife was pregnant, I dared wondered if he would be my real son. As events turned out, we were blessed with a daughter. And my dream boy disappeared. These dreams occured over some thirty years, so he became a familiar person, almost as a real person.
In real life, my perfect boy is a handsome 57 year old man who was my first true love. He still is perfect in my eyes and is full of imperfections only being human. But over the years, he can still outshine many younger lads.



Raymundo
Re: Have you ever seen a perfect boy?  [message #57834 is a reply to message #57827] Fri, 17 July 2009 07:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
timmy

Has no life at all
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13739



The need not to be found out.

> Having defined homosexuality as a pathology, psychiatrists and other doctors made bold to "treat" it. James Harrison, a psychologist who produced the 1992 documentary film Changing Our Minds, notes that the medical profession viewed homosexuality with such abhorrence that virtually any proposed treatment seemed defensible.

> Lesbians were forced to submit to hysterectomies and oestrogen injections, although it became clear that neither of these had any effect on their sexual orientation. Gay men were subjected to similar abuses.

> Changing Our Minds incorporates a film clip from the late 1940s, now slightly muddy, of a young gay man undergoing a transorbital lobotomy. We see a small device like an ice pick inserted through the eye socket, above the eyeball and into the brain. The pick is moved back and forth, reducing the prefrontal lobe to a haemorrhaging pulp.

> Harrison's documentary, directed by Richard Schmiechen, also includes a grainy black-and-white clip from a 1950s educational film produced by the U.S. Navy. A gay man lies in a hospital bed. Doctors strap him down and attach electrodes to his head. "We're going to help you get better," says a male voice in the background. When the power is turned on, the body of the gay man jerks violently, and he begins to scream.

> Doctors also tried castration and various kinds of aversion therapy. None of these could be shown to change the sexual orientation of the people involved.

I knew what was coming if I was found out.



Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
Re: Have you ever seen a perfect boy?  [message #57838 is a reply to message #57834] Fri, 17 July 2009 15:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Macky is currently offline  Macky

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As an adult, how can you blame yourself for pushing other people away when you were aware and terrified of what might be in store for you if you were found out. I don't think you should hold this against yourself in consideration of the "Perfect boy". If you knew your boy self as the adult you are now, would you hold this against the boy, when you know why it was happening? I don't see how you could. So then the only thing standing in the way of your perfection was legs of disproportionate size? Could this be a hold over from your adolescent body self consciousness? Would the adult you still notice this or feel that it was a bad characteristic? What % imperfection would you accord such a physical trait?



Behold, how good and how pleasant it is
For brothers to dwell together in unity!
Ps 133:1 NASB
Re: Have you ever seen a perfect boy?  [message #57839 is a reply to message #57838] Fri, 17 July 2009 15:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
timmy

Has no life at all
Location: UK, in Devon
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Messages: 13739



Far too analytical. I describe me as I was. You asked what was imperfect and that is the answer. I am busy sorting the rest out.



Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
Re: Have you ever seen a perfect boy?  [message #57845 is a reply to message #57825] Fri, 17 July 2009 20:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Nigel is currently offline  Nigel

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No, I think you're reading too much into it, Saben.

What I am trying to say - I think - is that you can't successfully theorise about these things. The nearest you can get to it is to reverse the process.

You see a boy with the wow! factor. You try to analyse what makes up that wow! factor and get a list of attributes. But the process is innately flawed because when you take these attributes and try to synthesise the perfect by there is a missing element. Call it soul, character, wow factor, what you will. The perfect boy has one quality which is indefinable. Because it is indefinable it is different for every one of us.

Does this make sense?

Hugs
Nigel



I dream of boys with big bulges in their trousers,
Never of girls with big bulges in their blouses.

…and look forward to meeting you in Cóito.
Re: Only in my mind  [message #57858 is a reply to message #57826] Sat, 18 July 2009 10:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
saben is currently offline  saben

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By my reckoning of perfection it is. Which is why I say perfection only exists in my mind. Things I imagine are symmetrical, usually. But nothing in reality is.



Look at this tree. I cannot make it blossom when it suits me nor make it bear fruit before its time [...] No matter what you do, that seed will grow to be a peach tree. You may wish for an apple or an orange, but you will get a peach.
Master Oogway
Re: Have you ever seen a perfect boy?  [message #57859 is a reply to message #57845] Sat, 18 July 2009 10:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
saben is currently offline  saben

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Messages: 1537



Ahh okay. I wonder if there is science behind the "wow factor" though. I mean, we don't list pheromones on our list of attributes, but they play a big part. Subtle scents that we don't even notice can play a big part in attraction (I saw a documentary on how scent is often linked to immune system capabilities and it's our way of recognising someone that will produce children with a strong immune system).

There's also Freudian psychology that would say the "wow factor" is linked to how similar the object of our affection is to our parents. I'm sure there's other brands of subconscious psychology that might try and pin down the wow factor.

You seem to think the wow factor is undefinable. Maybe it is... I'm not sure, though.



Look at this tree. I cannot make it blossom when it suits me nor make it bear fruit before its time [...] No matter what you do, that seed will grow to be a peach tree. You may wish for an apple or an orange, but you will get a peach.
Master Oogway
Re: Have you ever seen a perfect boy?  [message #57867 is a reply to message #57859] Sat, 18 July 2009 17:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Nigel is currently offline  Nigel

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Saben, I believe your university training was scientific. Mine was in the humanities. There lie our different views of the wow! factor.

Certain things cannot be be analysed in a scientific way. To do so destroys them.

Hugs
N

[Updated on: Sat, 18 July 2009 17:04]




I dream of boys with big bulges in their trousers,
Never of girls with big bulges in their blouses.

…and look forward to meeting you in Cóito.
Re: Only in my mind  [message #57870 is a reply to message #57858] Sat, 18 July 2009 17:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
timmy

Has no life at all
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13739



Have you seen a symmetrical face? I've been trying to find pictures because I know I've seen them. Perfect facial symmetry looks unusual to most people



Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
Re: Have you ever seen a perfect boy?  [message #57874 is a reply to message #57817] Sat, 18 July 2009 19:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
acam is currently offline  acam

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Messages: 1849



Dear Macky, isn't that your picture? I always thought it was. And whether it is or not I do find it very attractive.

Love Anthony
Re: Have you ever seen a perfect boy?  [message #57875 is a reply to message #57825] Sat, 18 July 2009 20:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
acam is currently offline  acam

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Messages: 1849



Yes, Saben, you are right. The idea of perfection must contain incompatible attributes and we would probably be unable to construct such a person well enough to give our own construction top marks.

Has anyone ever fallen in love with someone who was perfect? Surely not. Even if you are in love with someone you will be able to see and describe some faults. I think gay men often are swayed too much by looks and not enough by character, but 'ideal' looks change from day to day according to one's mood. Just think of all the attractive pictures on the various sites which claim to display beauty.

I think Timmy started with the idea of perfect looks. Have you ever 'seen' a perfect boy? The other day, for example, I went to a school play in which my grand-daughter had a part. One of the boys in that play would 'fetch the ducks off the water' and I think he is beautiful and I asked about him and heard that he has an unattractive personality in some ways. Until I heard about him I'd have put him up for Timmy's prize.

Love,
Anthony
Re: Have you ever seen a perfect boy?  [message #57876 is a reply to message #57874] Sat, 18 July 2009 20:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Macky is currently offline  Macky

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Messages: 973



Yes Anthony, That is me at 13. The 45 years since that was taken have wrought enough changes in me that I don't worry about anyone seeing it and recognizing me. Thanks for the compliment. I believe that we have all had our moments of beauty. Its fleeting. I think all Adolescent boys are beautiful at some point in their development, but it's here today and gone literally tomorrow.



Behold, how good and how pleasant it is
For brothers to dwell together in unity!
Ps 133:1 NASB
Re: Have you ever seen a perfect boy?  [message #57895 is a reply to message #57815] Sat, 18 July 2009 23:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
pacman0236 is currently offline  pacman0236

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Messages: 3




YES I HAVE, and wish with all my heart he would give me a chance.

I'm still around, I check in once in a great while, not to often, but enough to see who is still here.

This "guy" is perfect to me, I can't find any flaws. He's even been in my dreams years before I even knew he existed. Reading some of the posts, he could have the hugest zit or whatnot, and still be perfect.

[Updated on: Sat, 18 July 2009 23:55]

Re: Have you ever seen a perfect boy?  [message #57896 is a reply to message #57895] Sun, 19 July 2009 00:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
pacman0236 is currently offline  pacman0236

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Registered: July 2009
Messages: 3




You know after reading some more of this thread, I have to state some items.

I thought this "guy" was perfect before I ever saw what he looked like.

He was 18, going to college, working full time, trying to get out on his own, and from a description he was 5' 7", 130 lbs., and cute. I was captured by it, I totally wanted to meet him so bad, and the night I did, it was over, he was the perfect MAN I ever wanted.
Re: Have you ever seen a perfect boy?  [message #57899 is a reply to message #57895] Sun, 19 July 2009 02:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Macky is currently offline  Macky

Really getting into it
Location: USA
Registered: November 2008
Messages: 973



Hey. Good to hear that you found your guy. I see that you joined and made your first post today. Welcome. Timmy has gathered a rather unique lot here with this forum and I hope you find it helpful or entertaining or whatever you want it to be.



Behold, how good and how pleasant it is
For brothers to dwell together in unity!
Ps 133:1 NASB
Re: Have you ever seen a perfect boy?  [message #57900 is a reply to message #57899] Sun, 19 July 2009 02:48 Go to previous message
pacman0236 is currently offline  pacman0236

Getting started
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Registered: July 2009
Messages: 3




I've been here for many years, I disappeared for a long while, but have found myself coming back. (couldn't remember my username and password). So it looks like I'm new.
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