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You are here: Home > Forum > A Place of Safety > General Talk > About time too!!
icon14.gif About time too!!  [message #58410] Fri, 21 August 2009 01:13 Go to next message
Aussie is currently offline  Aussie

Really getting into it

Registered: August 2006
Messages: 475



Reproduced from the Canberra Times
At last someone appears to be taking this seriously.
Aussie

Male circumcision sparks legal review
BY PAUL CARTER

20/08/2009 12:00:00 AM
Laws protect girls from genital surgery but parents wanting to circumcise boys can ''go around willy-nilly chopping up bits of their sons'', a state children's commissioner says.
Tasmania's commissioner for children, Paul Mason, and the Tasmanian Law Reform Institute have embarked on what they say is the largest review into the legalities of male circumcision in Australia's history.

Mr Mason said a critical issue for any non-therapeutic circumcision was whether parental consent was sufficient to protect a surgeon from legal action if the child's genital autonomy was thought to have been infringed.

''The only thing that protects a doctor from an action for assault or a civil prosecution is the valid consent of the patient,'' he said.

''The law is getting pretty hazy about whether a parent can give a valid consent for a child's non-medical procedure.'' Mr Mason said about 90 per cent of Australian male babies were circumcised in the 1970s, dropping to about 2 per cent now.

Its infrequency nowadays only heightened the chance of a circumcised boy feeling aggrieved as an adult that his rights were ignored as a child, he said.

But High Court rulings and United Nations conventions on the rights of parents and children and legal consent in terms of bodily integrity argue against parental-consent circumcision, he said.

''To me they suggest parents are not entitled to cut or wound their children unless it is for a medical purpose,'' he said.

Mr Mason said another grey legal area was that many jurisdictions outlawed female genital alteration, not just the most severe form, because it infringed on girls' rights.

''But we have a situation where girls have legal protection from any surgery on their genitals but parents can go around willy-nilly chopping up bits of their boys.

''That is a discrimination any way you look at it,'' he said.

University of Tasmania circumcision law researcher Warwick Marshall is working closely with Mr Mason and the Tasmanian Law Reform Institute.

Mr Marshall said criminal and civil laws failed to provide adequate certainty for parents and doctors.

''The crux of the uncertainty is whether the consent of the parent of the child being circumcised provides the circumciser with protection from criminal and civil actions which may be brought against them for performing a circumcision,'' he said.

Public submissions to the law reform review close on August 28. AAP
Re: About time too!!  [message #58415 is a reply to message #58410] Fri, 21 August 2009 04:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
saben is currently offline  saben

On fire!

Registered: May 2003
Messages: 1537



I saw this yesterday.

I don't begrudge being circumcised but at the same time I think this is great news.

I'm accustomed to the way I am, but no-one should have to be.

Culture has shifted 98% away from circumcision, but for the last 2% of baby males there's just not a good enough reason. Babies deserve to have their bodies protected. Prevention of future complications is NOT a good enough reason to remove body parts. Imagine if we ripped kids toenails out at birth to make sure they never had complications with in-growl toenails in the future.



Look at this tree. I cannot make it blossom when it suits me nor make it bear fruit before its time [...] No matter what you do, that seed will grow to be a peach tree. You may wish for an apple or an orange, but you will get a peach.
Master Oogway
Re: About time too!!  [message #58417 is a reply to message #58415] Fri, 21 August 2009 06:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Aussie is currently offline  Aussie

Really getting into it

Registered: August 2006
Messages: 475



You are right on the money Saben

I don't begrudge anybody being circumcised as long as they are either old enough to make an informed decision or there is a pressing medical need.

I did begrudge being circumcised myself and am glad I did something about it and uncircumcised. One of the best things I ever did, but the sad part is that it is not possible to restore ALL that was lost

Also it is the inequality that I object to when it is illegal to mutilate a girls genitals but ok to mutilate a boys.

Hopefully we will see the light eventually.

Aussie
Re: About time too!!  [message #58418 is a reply to message #58410] Fri, 21 August 2009 07:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Nigel is currently offline  Nigel

On fire!
Location: England
Registered: November 2003
Messages: 1756



Aussie quoted:
>But we have a situation where girls have legal protection from any surgery on their genitals but parents can go around willy-nilly chopping up bits of their boys.<

Is willy-nilly a technical term?

Hugs
N



I dream of boys with big bulges in their trousers,
Never of girls with big bulges in their blouses.

…and look forward to meeting you in Cóito.
Re: About time too!!  [message #58419 is a reply to message #58418] Fri, 21 August 2009 08:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
saben is currently offline  saben

On fire!

Registered: May 2003
Messages: 1537



In this case I'd say so!



Look at this tree. I cannot make it blossom when it suits me nor make it bear fruit before its time [...] No matter what you do, that seed will grow to be a peach tree. You may wish for an apple or an orange, but you will get a peach.
Master Oogway
Re: About time too!!  [message #58421 is a reply to message #58415] Fri, 21 August 2009 08:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
acam is currently offline  acam

On fire!
Location: UK
Registered: July 2007
Messages: 1849



Yes, Saben, I agree except that I'm not reconciled to it.

Love,
Anthony
Re: About time too!!  [message #58478 is a reply to message #58418] Wed, 26 August 2009 00:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Aussie is currently offline  Aussie

Really getting into it

Registered: August 2006
Messages: 475



Nigel
May be a technical term or may be a typo.
Perhaps they actually meant willy-silly

Aussie
Re: About time too!!  [message #58479 is a reply to message #58478] Wed, 26 August 2009 17:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
JimB is currently offline  JimB

Likes it here

Registered: December 2006
Messages: 349



I'm familiar with the colloquialism "willy-nilly". In the extreme it means wild or uncontrolled, to a lesser degree it means without direction or undisciplined.

JimB
Re: About time too!!  [message #58480 is a reply to message #58418] Wed, 26 August 2009 21:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
timmy

Has no life at all
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13739



I never knew this was going to become ironic! But there, volens nolens, go we!



Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
Re: About time too!!  [message #58483 is a reply to message #58415] Thu, 27 August 2009 03:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
JFR is currently offline  JFR

On fire!
Location: Israel
Registered: October 2004
Messages: 1367



I wasn't going to get involved in this discussion but I came across this article, which I think has some interesting comments in it:

http://www.tabletmag.com/life-and-religion/14303/first-cut-2/

J F R



The paradox has often been noted that the United States, founded in secularism, is now the most religiose country in Christendom, while England, with an established church headed by its constitutional monarch, is among the least. (Richard Dawkins, 2006)
Re: About time too!!  [message #58484 is a reply to message #58483] Thu, 27 August 2009 11:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
timmy

Has no life at all
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13739



As does this article: http://brodylevesque.blogspot.com/2009/08/circumcision-doesnt-protect-gays-from.html



Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
Re: About time too!!  [message #58493 is a reply to message #58410] Sat, 29 August 2009 00:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
johnleeb is currently offline  johnleeb

Toe is in the water
Location: USA
Registered: January 2009
Messages: 44



There is another extreamly good reason. Burn patients need skin grafts and their own foreskin is apparently the most ideal - it can be stretched into a mesh that covers the burn area and heals a lot faster than other methods.

I don't have any medical places to quote on this, but there is a good story by Str8mayb (http://paddedroom.us/listing/fireList.html) that deals with exactly that issue.

Also check out: http://www.mothering.com/discussions/showthread.php?t=93575
Re: About time too!!  [message #58494 is a reply to message #58493] Sat, 29 August 2009 08:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
timmy

Has no life at all
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13739



Fine for an adult who consents and requires treatment. Absolutely not fine for an infant whose parents choose to modify the boy's body for cosmetic purposes.



Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
Re: About time too!!  [message #58496 is a reply to message #58493] Sat, 29 August 2009 11:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Aussie is currently offline  Aussie

Really getting into it

Registered: August 2006
Messages: 475



And who would even suspect you were masturbating just by rubbing your arm?

Still not a good enough reason to mutilate baby boys.

Aussie
Re: About time too!!  [message #58504 is a reply to message #58494] Sat, 29 August 2009 15:44 Go to previous message
johnleeb is currently offline  johnleeb

Toe is in the water
Location: USA
Registered: January 2009
Messages: 44



My point is that it should not be done until required. While in the story it was done to young boys who had been burned, and with guardian consent. The boys had to have burn treatment, and that using the foreskin was the lesser of the evils.

Doing it for religious reqirements is another of the ways I am in contempt of some religions. Hmm.. I'm usually not that nice when about speaking of religions. I usually end up reflecting their hate back at them.
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