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You are here: Home > Forum > A Place of Safety > General Talk > Kentucky church ordains convicted sex offender
icon4.gif Kentucky church ordains convicted sex offender  [message #58953] Thu, 01 October 2009 17:19 Go to next message
Brody Levesque is currently offline  Brody Levesque

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By Brody Levesque (Washington DC) Oct 1 | It is not just a problem for the Catholic Church or faithful. But one has to wonder at times about the levels of hypocrisy in organised religions. This is from The Associated Press today; (Louisville, Ky.) A tiny Louisville church’s newest minister is a gifted music leader and popular among its three dozen members. Mark Hourigan is also a sex offender. Almost a decade ago, long before he joined the flock at the City of Refuge Worship Center, he was convicted of sexually abusing an 11-year-old boy in central Kentucky. Hourigan served a five-year sentence and the 41-year-old was placed on Kentucky’s sex offender registry for the rest of his life.


A former leader at the church along with an abuse victims advocacy group say Hourigan is a risk to hurt another child and he should not have been placed in a position of authority.

“He’s still a threat” to children, said Cal Pfeiffer, who was abused by a Catholic priest as a young student in Louisville in the late 1950s and early 60s.

Pfeiffer and experts on religion and sexual abuse believe it could be the first time a convicted sex offender has been knowingly ordained as a minister in a Christian church.

“It sets a precedent,” said Pfeiffer, a member of a group that has protested Hourigan’s ordination. “It elevates him to an ordained minister which almost automatically conveys a level of trust and responsibility.”

The church’s pastor, the Rev. Randy Meadows, ordained Hourigan during a service on Sept. 13. The self-described Pentecostal church, started by Meadows and a handful of other members six years ago, welcomes anyone “regardless of race, religion, culture (or) sexual orientation,” according to its Web site. It also has a Sunday school for children.

Meadows declined several requests from The Associated Press for an interview, but said in a brief phone conversation that the church has not experienced any backlash based on the decision to ordain a convicted pedophile.

“We’re just finished with the whole ordeal with everything, so we’re moving on,” Meadows said.

There was no phone listing for Hourigan and no one answered the door during a reporter’s two visits to the apartment listed on Hourigan’s sex offender registration.

Church members aren’t talking about it, either. Several calls to members listed on the church’s Web site were not returned; people outside the church declined to comment to reporters during two visits to the church as services were beginning or ending.

But a pastor and friend to Meadows who attended Hourigan’s ordination said the church’s board gave Meadows and Hourigan its full support.

“It was a really beautiful ceremony,” said the Rev. Aletha Fields, a high school teacher and gay rights activist. “The sanctuary was full because there were people from out of town.”

Fields, who sometimes serves as a guest pastor, said she asked Meadows about why he decided to make Hourigan a church leader.

“I asked him flat out about it because I wanted to get behind his thinking,” she said. Meadows believes firmly in the “redemptive power of Jesus Christ,” and told her Hourigan had served his prison term and completed probation.

“I believe they followed Biblical principle,” Fields said.

One of the church’s founders, Kevin Pickerrell, said he left last year over plans to ordain Hourigan. He said Meadows assured church members that Hourigan wouldn’t minister to children, but Pickerrell continued to balk at the idea of ordaining Hourigan.

Pickerrell said Meadows believed that Hourigan had been reformed.

“He tried to convince me that Mark had changed,” Pickerrell said of Meadows.

Hourigan said in an interview with CNN in September that wants to minister to others like him “who have been rejected.” Hourigan said he has learned not to put himself in situations where he might be tempted and to seek counsel when he’s having “emotional problems … so it doesn’t turn into something that it has in the past.”

Pickerrell said Hourigan “has an illness that you can’t cure.”

Recidivism rates are high for sex offenders, with more than half reoffending, said Keith F. Durkin, a criminologist at Ohio Northern University who has studied pedophiles. He said that rate increases when the crimes involve prepubescent children, like Hourigan’s victim.

“I cannot possibly see him being reformed,” Durkin said. “(Sexual desire) is the most powerful drive we have as a human and (for a child sexual abuser) it’s kids.”

Pickerrell said Hourigan was a “wonderful” music leader at the church and was well-liked when Pickerrell attended services. But he and Pfeiffer said they worry that Hourigan can present himself as a minister to strangers who don’t know his past.

Hourigan was arrested on one count each of first-degree sodomy and sexual abuse in Marion County, Ky., in 1998, according to court records. An indictment said the abuses occurred between 1993 and 1994. Hourigan pleaded guilty a year later to two counts of sexual abuse. The terms of Hourigan’s parole, which he completed in June 2008, included an order that he not serve in any leadership capacity at a church with youths.

Pfeiffer’s group, the Survivors Network of those Abused by Priests (SNAP), sent a letter to the church but Pfeiffer said members have not responded.

Pastor Meadows, as a Pentecostal, may hold a strong belief in the healing power of the Holy Spirit, which could explain why he believes Hourigan can be reformed, experts said.

They “believe absolutely anybody can be healed of absolutely anything, no exceptions,” said Paul Alexander, a professor of Theology and Ethics at Azusa Pacific University in California.

Meadows told CNN that Hourigan’s faith has helped him reform, but he pledged to monitor the former sex offender closely.

“I don’t take anything lightly when it comes to someone’s past,” Meadows said.

[Updated on: Thu, 01 October 2009 17:23]

Jesus!  [message #58957 is a reply to message #58953] Thu, 01 October 2009 22:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
timmy

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"Ah, my child, lean forward over this rail and lower your shorts and feel the awesome power of the lord enter you!"

Yes, Jesus saves. But John the Baptist scores on the rebound.



Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
Re: Jesus!  [message #58959 is a reply to message #58957] Fri, 02 October 2009 03:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ray2x is currently offline  ray2x

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This story has me good. I can almost applaud the risk this church took. It does boggle the mind but isn't it the purpose of a church or a religion to take on that risk? Was not Jesus a risk? Bucking the status quo?



Raymundo
Re: Kentucky church ordains convicted sex offender  [message #58964 is a reply to message #58953] Fri, 02 October 2009 12:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
saben is currently offline  saben

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I think it's great that the church can find forgiveness.

I just wish the law could so that it could do away with Sex Offender Registries.

If people have done their time let them go on with their lives.



Look at this tree. I cannot make it blossom when it suits me nor make it bear fruit before its time [...] No matter what you do, that seed will grow to be a peach tree. You may wish for an apple or an orange, but you will get a peach.
Master Oogway
Re: Jesus!  [message #58973 is a reply to message #58959] Sat, 03 October 2009 09:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
timmy

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Ah yes. And risk the guy bucking all the small kids that kneel before him. No. This is not a sensible risk.

And Jesus was not an ordained cleric and not placed in a position of power by the religion he was born into.

No. Buck this for a game of soldiers. This guy is a bucking great risk and needs to be slung out on his bucking ear.

Or maybe he should be allowed to babysit kids. Would that be a good risk?



Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
Re: Kentucky church ordains convicted sex offender  [message #58974 is a reply to message #58964] Sat, 03 October 2009 14:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
acam is currently offline  acam

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Yes, Saben. I would like to do away with sex offenders' registers too, but only if it could be done without any danger of repeat offences. That is a problem for me.

I think that danger from people who abuse children sexually is very largely from people the children already know; people like uncles and cousins and friends of the family. And laws which direct people's attention away from these people may be counter-productive. But such laws may also be worthwhile if those who have abused children before are very likely to do it again. I believe that most child abusers *are* likely to do it again, given half a chance.

But I think the best way to protect children against abuse is to teach them from their earliest years what sorts of behaviour are acceptable and what are not and to talk to them about their friends and the adults they interact with - and, if possible, every day.

If children find it really easy to talk about such things they will tell you about inappropriate behaviour. Having the child willing to talk is, in my view the best defence.

Love,
Anthony
Re: Kentucky church ordains convicted sex offender  [message #58976 is a reply to message #58964] Sat, 03 October 2009 15:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
timmy

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Society has stated in law (at least in the UK) that inclusion on such a register is a part of the penalty. Thus their time is not "done" while such laws exist.

Whether this is good or bad law is a different topic.

I see the main problem being that the register doesn't differentiate well between a simple and stupid crime, such as the witting or unwitting possession of pictures of naked people under the age, in the UK, of 18, and the person who ties up and rapes a child.

I also have a problem with a person appearing on the register for the technical offence of having sex with a "just under 16 year old" (UK) when that late 15 year old looks as if they are 18 or more. There is insufficient granularity between that and the abuse of an 11 year old child - the thing that this Kentucky person did.

A register has a purpose. It is to insist that the probation service knows the location of the convicted offender, and to make it an offence to "vanish". That is a good thing. Whether that information should be freely available to the populace at large is a different discussion. I do not support lynch mob mentality.



Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
Re: Kentucky church ordains convicted sex offender  [message #58977 is a reply to message #58974] Sat, 03 October 2009 15:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
timmy

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You have to explain to children that the only good secrets are birthday (and other) presents and surprise parties, or what happens next in a book or film. All other secrets should be shared with an adult that they trust so that the adult may help them judge whether the secret is Ok or not.

This avoids a discussion about sex when the child is too young to understand it, too.



Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
Re: Kentucky church ordains convicted sex offender  [message #58981 is a reply to message #58976] Sat, 03 October 2009 22:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Nigel is currently offline  Nigel

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The sex offenders' register is a blunt instrument and certainly should not have to be signed by children under 16. Similarly bringing 11 and 12 year olds to court on sexual offences charges, as has happened in the UK over the last few months, is completely the wrong way of doing things and lacks any understanding of children. This is revenge rather than justice.

Hugs
N



I dream of boys with big bulges in their trousers,
Never of girls with big bulges in their blouses.

…and look forward to meeting you in Cóito.
Sex offenders register  [message #58985 is a reply to message #58981] Sun, 04 October 2009 10:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
timmy

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I agree with you in principle. The Sexual Offences Act 2003 in the UK certainly appears to make five year olds playing doctors and nurses an unlawful act - something that any right thinking person will see as ridiculous.

I differ from you over a 15/16 year old who has forced his or her attentions on a five year old, though. If intent is proven then some restrictive remedy is in order. A limited period on a register seems appropriate.

The issue is that our legislators have fallen for the public's view that there is a paediatrician under every bush waiting to prey on its children, and thus have created broad brush legislation.

In the UK the courts set and then follow legal precedent, but there is a court beneath which precedent is not set. Since it is likely that such awkward cases have not reached that court then the law is still applied in the way you state. Unfortunately we need someone determined to fight the system. Yet such people are also highly vulnerable themselves. Additionally an appeal in such cases can be viewed as causing more trauma to the alleged victim, and thus goes immediately against the appellant.



Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
Re: Kentucky church ordains convicted sex offender  [message #58989 is a reply to message #58976] Tue, 06 October 2009 01:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
saben is currently offline  saben

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Registered: May 2003
Messages: 1537



If a crime is going to incur a life sentence call it a life sentence.

We let murderers out of prison once they have done their time and they are allowed to forge new identities.

Sexually abusing an 11 year old is pretty disturbing, but surely no-one could rationally see that as worse than murder.



Look at this tree. I cannot make it blossom when it suits me nor make it bear fruit before its time [...] No matter what you do, that seed will grow to be a peach tree. You may wish for an apple or an orange, but you will get a peach.
Master Oogway
Re: Kentucky church ordains convicted sex offender  [message #58990 is a reply to message #58974] Tue, 06 October 2009 01:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
saben is currently offline  saben

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Repeat offenders are always a risk. But new offenders are always a risk. Crime cannot be avoided. Violent behaviour is an inevitability.

If the point of imprisonment is rehabilitation then surely the rehabilitated criminal should be free of being on a register so they can move on from the criminal label.

If the point of imprisonment is retribution then surely once a person has served their time they should be penalised further.

If current sentences are not just then increasing them may be appropriate. But having people serve their sentence as pariahs out in the community just seems inappropriate.



Look at this tree. I cannot make it blossom when it suits me nor make it bear fruit before its time [...] No matter what you do, that seed will grow to be a peach tree. You may wish for an apple or an orange, but you will get a peach.
Master Oogway
Re: Kentucky church ordains convicted sex offender  [message #58992 is a reply to message #58989] Tue, 06 October 2009 05:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ray2x is currently offline  ray2x

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This Kentucky church is definitely taking a risk. Thus, are we hoping for a success or a failure for this guy? I tend to root for the underdog. I am no fan of christian churches in general, but this Kentucky church is also in the underdog role. This situation definitely has lots of yin in the yang and vice versa.



Raymundo
removal from his post is what I am hoping for  [message #59001 is a reply to message #58992] Wed, 07 October 2009 21:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
timmy

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Neither. He should be removed from his post. The appointment is irresponsible and inappropriate.

I am hoping that no child is ever with him alone. To hell with success or failure. This is not an experiment in the social rehabilitation.

There are other jobs he can do. Burgers need to be flipped, gas needs to be pumped.



Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
Re: Kentucky church ordains convicted sex offender  [message #59002 is a reply to message #58989] Wed, 07 October 2009 21:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
timmy

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I am quite keen on executing murderers.



Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
Re: Kentucky church ordains convicted sex offender  [message #59005 is a reply to message #59002] Wed, 07 October 2009 23:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Macky is currently offline  Macky

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Is any system for determining guilt foolproof though? How many innocent deaths make it worthwhile to punish murderers with death? Despite what many churches say, death seems to be somewhat permanent. What do you do when science advances and proof of innocence surfaces? You can release an unjustly convicted lifer. But you can only put flowers on the grave of the mistake.



Behold, how good and how pleasant it is
For brothers to dwell together in unity!
Ps 133:1 NASB
Re: Kentucky church ordains convicted sex offender  [message #59021 is a reply to message #59005] Fri, 09 October 2009 05:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ray2x is currently offline  ray2x

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I agree with Timmy. This is definitely not a social experiment. It's a business decision to fill a job vacancy with a person the Human Resource specialist decided upon. It's about now getting the job done in a professional manner. It's about doing the job and getting paid. It's about evaluations about job performance. He keeps the job if his performance meets the expectations of the business. Or getting fired if he doesn't meet the expectations.



Raymundo
Re: Kentucky church ordains convicted sex offender  [message #59022 is a reply to message #59005] Fri, 09 October 2009 05:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
saben is currently offline  saben

On fire!

Registered: May 2003
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There's practical reasons for oppose death sentences.

But there are ethical reasons, too. Revenge killing doesn't bring someone back. And it only provides a mild deterrent. I don't think that vengeance is something that is really constructive.

I'm not sure what should be done about social deviants. I honestly don't even know if there's a place for imprisonment. Society has other ways of discouraging and punishing negative behaviour. We do it with liars and adulterers.



Look at this tree. I cannot make it blossom when it suits me nor make it bear fruit before its time [...] No matter what you do, that seed will grow to be a peach tree. You may wish for an apple or an orange, but you will get a peach.
Master Oogway
Re: Kentucky church ordains convicted sex offender  [message #59023 is a reply to message #59021] Fri, 09 October 2009 06:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
timmy

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It's about trust. There is something creepy and nasty about placing a man who has abused an 11 year old boy in a position of trust with access to children. I really don't care about the alleged professionalism of some personnel officer.



Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
Re: Kentucky church ordains convicted sex offender  [message #59024 is a reply to message #59022] Fri, 09 October 2009 06:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
JFR is currently offline  JFR

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I agree with Saben.

I am against the death penalty in all circumstances (even in the case of people like Adolph Eichmann and Saddam Hussein).

But in those countries that do have the death penalty it is the duty of the judiciary and the executive to make a clear distinction between what the State is permitted to do and what it is not permitted to do. The State has the right to punish offenders; it does not have the right to exact revenge.

In the case under discussion, I often ask myself whether we really mean that the offender has "paid his debt to society." Once a debt is paid off surely the debtor has the right to expect that his name is cleared. In the case of a second offence it is the task of the legislative and the judiciary to exact that kind of punishment which will ensure that society is protected.

Just my two cents worth.

J F R



The paradox has often been noted that the United States, founded in secularism, is now the most religiose country in Christendom, while England, with an established church headed by its constitutional monarch, is among the least. (Richard Dawkins, 2006)
Re: Kentucky church ordains convicted sex offender  [message #59025 is a reply to message #59022] Fri, 09 October 2009 07:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Nigel is currently offline  Nigel

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Why does the state "take revenge" by executing murderers? Surely it is only revenge if those close to the murdered victim kill the murderer. The state is impersonal and cannot have emotions such as revenge.

Hugs
N



I dream of boys with big bulges in their trousers,
Never of girls with big bulges in their blouses.

…and look forward to meeting you in Cóito.
Re: Kentucky church ordains convicted sex offender  [message #59026 is a reply to message #59025] Fri, 09 October 2009 09:08 Go to previous message
JFR is currently offline  JFR

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Nigel wrote:
Why does the state "take revenge" by executing murderers? Surely it is only revenge if those close to the murdered victim kill the murderer. The state is impersonal and cannot have emotions such as revenge.

That is the way that it should be, Nigel. But that is not always the way it is. When an execution is botched, as happens too frequently in some states, the response is usually something like "he deserved to suffer as his victims suffered." This kind of comment was heard, for example, on one occasion in the USA when the state executioner turned up drunk: I don't remember the details, but one phenomenon on that occasion was that the prisoner's hair caught fire. When the state permits an official to fulfil such a serious task as the judicial taking of a prisoner's life while that official is inebriated beyond capacity it turns what should have been (from the state's point of view) the exacting of punishment to an act of revenge if the justification offered is as I have indicated above.

Another example: the taunts and jeering that accompanied the hanging of Saddam Hussein, including the transmission of the proceedings via a mobile telephone; or the shouts of jubilation when one of Saddam's henchmen was hanged and the procedure was so botched that the head was separated from the body. Such phenomena turn judiciary punishment into a brutal act of revenge.

Another example: the American executioner of the Nazi prisoners after the Nuremberg trials was so inept that the gallows (all of them) were incorrectly calculated and the nooses wrongly tied and attached. It took von Ribbentrop, we are told, nearly 20 minutes to die.

Enough of these morbid musings.

J F R



The paradox has often been noted that the United States, founded in secularism, is now the most religiose country in Christendom, while England, with an established church headed by its constitutional monarch, is among the least. (Richard Dawkins, 2006)
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