|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, Timmy, what you say you are depends on the circumstances. I suppose I mean 'what I say I am'. I say I'm 90% gay but 10% straight so does that mean I'm bisexual?
I say I'm gay because that's what I think. And it can't be tested because I'm faithful to my wife. And if she were to die I would be looking for a man, not a woman. But I could find another woman. I am vulnerable to unpremeditated attractions.
And the accusation of greed would only be appropriate for someone who took every opportunity to have sex with either sex. I've always preferred love to promiscuity.
And, isn't that the point?
Love,
Anthony
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
timmy
|
 |
Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13751
|
|
|
I'm hoping you travelled along the link in the original post 
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Macky
|
 |
Really getting into it |
Location: USA
Registered: November 2008
Messages: 973
|
|
|
Strange. For most of my life I just didn't believe in bi-sexuality. Sorta like you and wet dreams. But now I know it's real. And if a gay man's life is rough, at least he can take a partner and find fulfillment. What does a bi man do? What individual can he give his 'all' to? It just seems that he has to remain unfulfilled throughout his life. Sad.
Macky
Behold, how good and how pleasant it is
For brothers to dwell together in unity!
Ps 133:1 NASB
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
But, Macky, why is it sad that a person can only commit to one person?
I don't understand you. Because if it is sad that a bi person can only get married to one sex then it is equally sad that a straight person cannot have two wives.
What you say would only be right if, to be fulfilled, one had to have all possible varieties of experience. I don't think anyone has that!
Love,
Anthony
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Macky
|
|
Really getting into it |
Location: USA
Registered: November 2008
Messages: 973
|
|
|
Anthony,
Think about the oneness of a totally committed relationship. One can not be totally committed to two. Surely you understand the depth there after almost 50 years of marriage. That commitment is unavailable to bi guys.
Macky
Behold, how good and how pleasant it is
For brothers to dwell together in unity!
Ps 133:1 NASB
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
timmy
|
|
Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13751
|
|
|
I'm a little lost.
A gay man can find an orgasm with a partner, is that fulfilment?
I also don't quite understand the thinking behind your bi example. What I get form it is that he has to have a pair of partners, one of each sex, at all times?
I really do hope you travelled the link to the blog. Everyone so far seems to be missing the real point.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Macky
|
|
Really getting into it |
Location: USA
Registered: November 2008
Messages: 973
|
|
|
Traveled the link. Understood your point. I don't put bi guys down. I pity them because there is no individual person who is all man plus all woman. I feel that a one on one commitment is supremely special. I do not think that's available to bi guys. What's not to understand.
Macky
Behold, how good and how pleasant it is
For brothers to dwell together in unity!
Ps 133:1 NASB
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
timmy
|
|
Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13751
|
|
|
I think we understand bisexuality differently. Not sure yet.
To me a bisexual person is truly equally aroused sexually by a person of the opposite and of the same sex. They are alternatives, of equal merit, probably to be enjoyed singly, but not always.
What I get from what you have said is the your concept of bisexuality means that both the attributes of a man and the attributes of a woman are needed simultaneously.
I see every reason for that concept to be as valid as my concept, and see that a person having what I think you have described could feel disadvantaged. I understand this because, while I love my wife very deeply, her bodily equipment is not designed to give me the physical pleasure I crave. Being a natural bottom and being married to a lady, however attractive and loving, and whatever toys we have, is not entirely physically satisfactory. Emotionally, it's fine, physically it's not quite there.
Does that help show where my thoughts may be different from yours?
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
But, Macky, maybe I am a Bi guy. It's just a matter of the definition of a word. I am the same whatever word you choose to apply to me.
Love,
Anthony
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
That's very interesting, Timmy. I'd like to say that as a gay-bi man I've never been anything but a top. I'm not prejudiced and would be delighted to try versatility; I think I'd enjoy it but it just so happens that I never have.
So maybe the difference for me between sex with a man and sex with a woman is less than it is for some other people.
Or at least some people may think so.
But I don't think so.
Love,
Anthony
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Macky
|
|
Really getting into it |
Location: USA
Registered: November 2008
Messages: 973
|
|
|
I think it may. But I am not sure. To be truly bisexual, a guy has to be equally attracted to a man and a woman. But to be in a committed relationship, he has to choose one or the other, doesn't he? Since men are men and women are women, he can't have both in a single relationship. He has to renounce his bi to have a committed relationship with either a man or a woman.
A gay can have a committed relationship with a guy and things are hunky dory. A bi can have a committed relationship with a guy, or he can have a committed relationship with a woman. Things are not hunky dory regardless of the sex he chooses to commit to.
The fact that you are gay and committed to a woman is similar, but you could have had a committed relationship with a guy. You chose not to because of the environment in which you lived. That choice is never open to bi men. So I think they have a tougher row to hoe than heteros or homos.
Macky
Behold, how good and how pleasant it is
For brothers to dwell together in unity!
Ps 133:1 NASB
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Macky
|
|
Really getting into it |
Location: USA
Registered: November 2008
Messages: 973
|
|
|
If you say that you are bi, I think it means you are just as attracted to men as to women. I think that that is your case. If you are 10% attracted to women and 90% attracted to men, you are gay in my book, despite your wonderful committed relationship with your wife. Timmy has a wonderful relationship with his wife and calls himself gay. I have a super relationship with my wife and call myself gay. How are you different from us in that respect?
Macky
Behold, how good and how pleasant it is
For brothers to dwell together in unity!
Ps 133:1 NASB
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
timmy
|
|
Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13751
|
|
|
Macky wrote:
> The fact that you are gay and committed to a woman is similar, but you could have had a committed relationship with a guy. You chose not to because of the environment in which you lived. That choice is never open to bi men. So I think they have a tougher row to hoe than heteros or homos.
I think I have the difference between us. I didn't choose because of the environment. I didn't actually choose, not consciously.
At 13 I loved a boy. At 26, while I had not ceased loving the boy, I loved a girl. One of them also loved me. The other neither loved me nor was in my life at that point. The choice, if choice it was, was a choice made out of love, and was the only choice present.
I think that any choice of partner is like that unless one is somehow calculating about it, like "that one has the money, the other has the looks. Now which one do I want, coz I sure love neither!"
So I got the love and affection I craved and most of the rest. Not too shabby a deal, that!
[Updated on: Fri, 30 October 2009 00:06]
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Macky
|
|
Really getting into it |
Location: USA
Registered: November 2008
Messages: 973
|
|
|
"But, Macky, why is it sad that a person can only commit to one person?"
To commit is to give one's all. You don't have 2 alls to give (time or love for instance). Therefor, you can only commit to one.
"I don't understand you. Because if it is sad that a bi person can only get married to one sex then it is equally sad that a straight person cannot have two wives."
Not true when you consider commitment. A straight man can not give all of himself to each of his 2 wives.
What you say would only be right if, to be fulfilled, one had to have all possible varieties of experience. I don't think anyone has that!
A bi is equally drawn to men and women. He can commit to one or the other, but he is not fulfilled like the gay guy who marries a man or the straight guy who marries a woman. He can never commit to a perfect partner. The option is not open to him like it is for heteros and homos.
Macky
Behold, how good and how pleasant it is
For brothers to dwell together in unity!
Ps 133:1 NASB
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Macky
|
|
Really getting into it |
Location: USA
Registered: November 2008
Messages: 973
|
|
|
"So I got the love and affection I craved and most of the rest. Not too shabby a deal, that!"
This is a good thing to keep in mind for the both of us.
Macky
Behold, how good and how pleasant it is
For brothers to dwell together in unity!
Ps 133:1 NASB
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I scarcely do differ from you and Timmy in that, Macky.
Sylvia doesn't like it when I say I'm gay because as she says that leaves no room for her.
And I do think I'm less 'exclusively' homosexual than some people - maybe even less than you and Timmy are.
But it is too late to try me out as I'm not 25 any longer.
But it's a question of self-knowledge more than experience otherwise how could people know they are gay before they've ever had any sort of sexual experience - even before the first stirrings of puberty?
Love,
Anthony
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Macky
|
|
Really getting into it |
Location: USA
Registered: November 2008
Messages: 973
|
|
|
We're all along the scale somewhere. That's why labels are problematic. Maybe bi hits at 50%; exactly between straight and gay. But I think "special exception" applies tome with my wife. I have never been sexually attracted to any other woman. But she's just different, because she's so different. I loved her soul so much that it spilled over to loving her body.
Macky
Behold, how good and how pleasant it is
For brothers to dwell together in unity!
Ps 133:1 NASB
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
timmy
|
|
Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13751
|
|
|
You need to think of the scale as very different from Kinsey's concept. Kinsey had a simple scale with homosexual at one end and heterosexual at the other, and his work tended to show that people were fixed on that scale.
This scale is one axis of sexual orientation. And you are not fixed on that scale. Instead you have a base point about which you oscillate.
The amplitude and period of the oscillation varies naturally over time, probably as a result of external stimulus. For example you may have a period of viewing naked women and you may feel aroused either by the picture or by the circumstance. That may trigger an oscillation towards the heterosexual end. this may be short lived (short periodicity) or long lived. It may be a huge effect (large amplitude) or a small one. Amplitude and period are independent variables and thus do not affect each other.
Other axes may affect this axis. You may be more homosexual when surrounded by semi naked men in a gym locker room. This axis is to do with arousal by location. The scent of fresh cut grass may remind you of your first sexual awakening, a sound may evoke heterosexual thoughts and so forth.
We are somewhere on the graph, but our position on any particular axis is wholly mobile.
I remember fancying girls. I can't remember if that was because I was meant to or because I did anyway. I was successful in having sex with them, but was that heterosexual sex of just a bit of erotic friction?
As I've grown older I think I have tended towards my base point. But I find the human form attractive, even if that is a girl. Attractive, but not in an erotic sense for a girl, attractive and sadly erotic if it is a boy.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
e
|
 |
On fire! |
Location: currently So Cal
Registered: May 2002
Messages: 1179
|
|
|
Perhaps I can help shed some light on the subject, perhaps not. But I wll try.
I typically identify myself as being gay. This is not entirely true. Throughout my life I have been sexually attracted to women. I am far more attracted to men, but the attraction to women is there nonetheless. I have had at least one very satisfying sexual relationship with a woman. I have never had sex with a man. My fantasy life is a ball of confusion. I have mixed homosexual and heterosexual fantasies. The man in my fantasies is almost always the star. He's the one who gets me off. But he is frequently having sex with a woman. The fantasy just seems to work better that way.
One of the reasons I have never had sex with a man is that any man I was attracted to, turned out to be straight. Back in the 80s I had a circle of friends who happened to be gay. While I found a couple of them sexually appealing, I was not attracted to them, if that makes any sense. I was not "out" to them, though a couple of them insisted I was gay. The others appeared to believe me. All of them, at one time or another, hit on me (except for two who were in a committed relationship). Mostly, it was just kidding around, but I had the idea that if I had been interested, it could have become more serious with any of them. But I wasn't interested.
I have dated very few women and can say that exect for one, maybe two, the sex was not particularly fulfilling. It isn't with my wife. I feel more like it's more obligation than desire. But this does not mean tahat I could not have a perfectly fulfilling relationship with one person. I believe that it is possible. That person could be a man or a woman. But that person never came along. I think it wouldn't be much different if I were completely gay or completely straight. There would have been a chance that I could have met the one person who could have been completely fulfilling as well as a chance that I might never have met that person. Given timmy's numbers, it would seem that the odds were more in my favor by being bi, and would have been far less favorable if I had been completely gay.
If being gay and being straight are two ends of a continuum, then there is an entire range of bisexuality inbetween. Apparently most people fall at either end, but there are a few of us who find ourselves in the middle. It's really not a bad place to be.
Think good thoughts,
e
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
saben
|
|
On fire! |
Registered: May 2003
Messages: 1537
|
|
|
I feel drawn to Asians and Caucasians. Don't I have the same dilemma as the bisexual?
Look at this tree. I cannot make it blossom when it suits me nor make it bear fruit before its time [...] No matter what you do, that seed will grow to be a peach tree. You may wish for an apple or an orange, but you will get a peach.
Master Oogway
|
|
|
|
|
Goto Forum:
|
] 
A Place of Safety
Search
Help
Register
Login
Home
