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"Converting the children"  [message #60709] Mon, 25 January 2010 04:14 Go to next message
saben is currently offline  saben

On fire!

Registered: May 2003
Messages: 1537



I'm a guild master in an online game I play online. I lead about 50-odd people into battle against monsters and dragons in a virtual world. But those 50-odd people also form a community of friends and acquaintances. The guild functions much like a chat room.

Recently, about a month ago, I met a 14 year old boy who joined my guild. He's taken something of a liking to me and I've ended up being something of a role model to him, helping him out with stuff in the game and giving him advice about real life problems he's been having.

The thing is, when we first started talking he was asking me about "girl problems" and I gave him relationship advice. But recently he's been talking less about girls and saying instead that he's been questioning his sexuality.

I've been open with him about being gay and when he's asked questions about why I thought I was gay, etc, I've told him openly and honestly. It was a few days after I mentioned my own teenage years that he came back to me and said "I've been wondering if maybe I'm like you, because sometimes I jack off thinking about other guys" and more recently "I was looking at gay porn the other night- you made me want to try it". I think he has something of a crush on me, too...

Is meeting me merely a catalyst for him thinking about his own sexuality? Or is the fact that I'm a role model that's been open about sexuality influenced or even "converted" him somewhat?

He's still unsure and he's still questioning and I tell him quite clearly that he doesn't need to make any decisions or be any one thing. He's allowed to try different stuff out and he's allowed to be unsure, etc. I'm trying NOT to influence him, but I think the fact that he looks up to me and the fact that I'm gay is in itself an influence.

I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing. Kids and teens have so much straight propaganda thrown at them that a bit of balance on matters of sexuality is probably a good thing. And it's not like humans can avoid being "converted" to a particular way of thinking- everything around us influences us in some way. But it still feels kind of weird that someone who was asking me for girl advice in the first week of me meeting him is now he's talking about gay porn and that he wishes we could meet up and I could sleepover at his house (don't worry, he lives in a totally different city and he knows I'm in a relationship).



Look at this tree. I cannot make it blossom when it suits me nor make it bear fruit before its time [...] No matter what you do, that seed will grow to be a peach tree. You may wish for an apple or an orange, but you will get a peach.
Master Oogway
Re: "Converting the children"  [message #60710 is a reply to message #60709] Mon, 25 January 2010 08:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Nigel is currently offline  Nigel

On fire!
Location: England
Registered: November 2003
Messages: 1756



Saben, you are in an extremely privileged position which I am sure you realise. It sounds to me that you are being rational and sensible. Just enjoy the fact that you can use your gifts to help someone on their way through life.

Hugs
N



I dream of boys with big bulges in their trousers,
Never of girls with big bulges in their blouses.

…and look forward to meeting you in Cóito.
Re: "Converting the children"  [message #60711 is a reply to message #60709] Mon, 25 January 2010 09:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
timmy

Has no life at all
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13739



As long as you are wholly aware that his parents could accuse you of grooming the boy, continue to help him answer his own questions. By this I mean supply him with answers that leave him all the choices, and answer his questions with honesty and openness. Refuse any invitation to meet him until he is of lawful age, and be aware that nice policemen pose as kids in such places in order to "find" those who groom kids.

You might want to show him http://vote.sparklit.com/poll.spark/1107722 if it ever becomes relevant.

You are almost certainly simply allowing him to explore his own feelings. He may be exploring whether an attraction to a schoolmate is homosexuality, he might be homosexual, bisexual or heterosexual and simply trying to work it out.

"You made me want to try it" may mean that you did. It may mean that your existence did. It may mean that he respects you so checked it out. It may mean that you gave him the courage to look at it. Your challenge is to work with him to ensure that he makes his own decisions, not ones that he feels you would approve of.

The thing about sex is that a teenage penis works with almost any stimulus. Teenage boys get erect during Latin lessons over nothing at all! So sex for a teenage boy, especially a 14 year old teenage boy, is, for the greater part, a matter of exciting friction, and for a substantially lesser part an interest in the thing creating the friction. Even a sofa will do!

You could persuade him to try sex with a guy, of course you could. That is the same as my persuading you to try sex with a girl. Your penis will work just fine after it's been fiddled with a bit to make it hard. But trying sex with a girl will not make you heterosexual, nor will trying sex with a guy make him even a little bit homosexual. We are what we are. Make sure he knows that. And make sure he knows that our orientation fluctuates quite widely until it settles around our basic orientation.

Even a 100% gay man can find a hot woman attractive. The feeling is as odd as a homosexual man finding a hot guy attractive.

So protect yourself and continue to allow him to be open about his feelings.

[Updated on: Mon, 25 January 2010 16:12]




Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
Re: "Converting the children"  [message #60713 is a reply to message #60709] Mon, 25 January 2010 12:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
chrisjames147 is currently offline  chrisjames147

Really getting into it
Location: U.S.
Registered: November 2009
Messages: 630



Saben, a difficult relationship at best, but I'm always concerned that adults in the gay community don't give enough for those youth who need guidance.

I'm not surprised that your young man began by pushing the heterosexual view of sex, even things we find unattractive hold a certain fascination. It also allowed him to get closer to you before opening his closet door, he had to be sure you wouldn't reject him.

You will have to be careful, as others have said. I have had several overtures over the years that I felt were fishing expeditions by members of the legal establishment. That's one of the issues an author faces when writing explicit stories, my name is out there. (well, my pen name anyway)

I urge you to let this young man understand your position and discover that you may be a source of life information far beyond the sexual realm. Being gay is so much more than an activity between the sheets, he needs to know that. Somehow I think the sex will resolve itself if he finds a peer with similar interests. Those initial moments of fumbling are healthy, but humans have an uncanny instinct, he will do just fine.

I have "raised" several young men online in the past ten years, I only accept the gay ones into my circle. I will never meet any of them, they live all across the world. But I have had the distinct pleasure of "watching" them grow, and have learned so much in the sharing process. I wish you the same joy.



Age appears to be best in four things; old wood best to burn, old wine to drink, old friends to trust, and old authors to read. (Sir Francis Bacon 1561-1626)
Re: "Converting the children"  [message #60716 is a reply to message #60711] Mon, 25 January 2010 16:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
saben is currently offline  saben

On fire!

Registered: May 2003
Messages: 1537



I met him through an online game which is a non-conventional "meet up" venue. And unless police officers have unbroken/ breaking voices I'm sure that he's actually 14 as I've spoken to him using voice programs. He also acts like an annoying 14 year old at times. When I've dealt with fake teens before usually they are idealised. This boy is not. He's annoying, he throws tantrums, he gets offended over nothing, all like a "real" teenager.

And he is 2 states away from me. So I doubt meeting up would actually happen- probably not even when he's 16. I have a life and relationship here in Melbourne and my plans are more likely to take me back to Japan than they are to Brisbane. He's a fun friend to talk to, though. And I like that he looks up to me.

As for his sexuality? I think he's probably mostly straight but has grown to "love"... well, adore is probably a better word here than love. But he's grown to adore me. And things those feelings of adoration for me as a person reflect something about his sexuality. So that has made him curious.

I asked him if he'd be interested in his school mates and he's been almost categorically uninterested. Yet he's said he'd like to try things ("everything") with "someone like me". I don't think he was a shy gay kid that didn't want to mention his sexuality, I think he thought he was straight and has started thinking about other options for sex because he met a gay guy he could ask questions to. And I think he developed feelings for me that is making him think that he could love a guy. Once one acknowledges that love and sex are both possible with a person of the non-preferred gender I guess thinking about bisexuality as an option is a small step.

So I think he's developed some kind of idol worship that's made him think about non-straight options. In a sense I have inadvertently, unintentionally "converted" him. But he's said other things like "you'd be a great dad" that aren't even related to sexuality... He just likes me.. because I'm nice to him, I guess...

So I guess the Christians are right in a sense Razz They do need to keep their kids away from gay people like me. Otherwise their kids will find some nice gay people and start to think all kinds of weird things... like that it's okay to be gay. And that being gay might even be fun if you find the right person. What a horrible influence I am. (tongue-in-cheek, of course!)

I don't want this to be just about me and my experience, though. I'm just kind of thinking that it's funny that we CAN "convert the children". Even if that it is not our aim. But "converting the children" to be open-minded about their own sexuality and the sexuality of others... That just seems like a good thing to me. I'd rather have kids be influenced to be sexually open than to be influence to be fundamentalist Christian.



Look at this tree. I cannot make it blossom when it suits me nor make it bear fruit before its time [...] No matter what you do, that seed will grow to be a peach tree. You may wish for an apple or an orange, but you will get a peach.
Master Oogway
Re: "Converting the children"  [message #60719 is a reply to message #60709] Tue, 26 January 2010 03:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Macky is currently offline  Macky

Really getting into it
Location: USA
Registered: November 2008
Messages: 973



Saben,

Kids are out of their everlovin' minds.

This kid doesn't need any special help. It's all on the internet. Being gay and young ain't what it used to be. It's not like when you were young anymore.

IMHO, this kid is interested in you because he feels that his youth gives him some kind of power over you. Face it, you are giving him special consideration that you do not give your other guildmembers. That gives him a power rush.

Kids like to play. He's playing with you just like he's playing the game. Don't let yourself be his toy. Treat him exactly the same as you would treat any other of your guild members. That will send him the best lesson.

Hope I don't come off as too much of a crumudgeon here. I have a BIG weak spot for cute kids too. But don't let yourself be manipulated.Wink

Max



Behold, how good and how pleasant it is
For brothers to dwell together in unity!
Ps 133:1 NASB
Re: "Converting the children"  [message #60720 is a reply to message #60719] Tue, 26 January 2010 08:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
timmy

Has no life at all
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13739



The thing is, Saben is one of those resources on the internet that the kid has found.

All that you say is highly relevant.



Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
Re: "Converting the children"  [message #60721 is a reply to message #60719] Tue, 26 January 2010 10:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
saben is currently offline  saben

On fire!

Registered: May 2003
Messages: 1537



A person is a better, more personal resource than a website.

But I am wary that I don't get played by a cunning kid.

He's not really that, though. He's asked for nothing, is (somewhat) grateful when I do give my time and I've not given him any special privileged in-game that he hasn't earnt (to be honest he's not the greatest player so he is benched for most things we do).

Actually it's been somewhat hard to be the hardass my guild requires while still being a friend. But I've managed it okay. He doesn't hate me over it Razz



Look at this tree. I cannot make it blossom when it suits me nor make it bear fruit before its time [...] No matter what you do, that seed will grow to be a peach tree. You may wish for an apple or an orange, but you will get a peach.
Master Oogway
Re: "Converting the children"  [message #60722 is a reply to message #60721] Tue, 26 January 2010 17:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
M is currently offline  M

Likes it here
Location: USA
Registered: September 2003
Messages: 327



Years ago I was in a similar same position. When I was 16/17 I used to frequent chatrooms far more often than I do now. In process I befriended a kid younger than me (3 years younger perhaps) who, thinking about it now, looked up to me. For starters, I was older. Second, I was gay and out of closet, and lastly, i had some experience with guys. He started talking to me because he had questions and I glady answered.

We spoke for a period of almost 2 years. During that time, I'm pretty sure he developed a extreme liking for me. We would talk through instant messanging, sometimes phone, or the chatroom where we met. I would share with him my experiences, how I came to terms with myself, how I told my friends, etc. All the same questions I had when I was his age. Except I had to find those answers on my own.

In the process, he learned a lot about himself. He gained confidence to come out and start telling people. Everything happened on his own terms and I was there for him whenever he had questions or just wanted to talk about whatever was happening. You can say I watched him grow. I remember the first time he told his sister he was gay. The first time he met a boy he really liked. The first time he told his bestfriend.

Overtime, we stopped talking as he had no need to continue talking to me. He had fullfilled his needs and was prepared to go on his own.

The boy lived one state away. Never met him.

I think the bond that formed between him and I worked because it was long distance and we had the safety (?) of a computer. I always encouraged him to have real interactions with people his own age. To be safe and experience things as he felt comfortable.

As I wrote this, I wonder whatever happened to him. I'm sure he is fine. I like to imagine I was a mentor to him and helped him sort out the answers to questions he couldn't find in someone else but me.



You don't love someone because they are beautiful, they are beautiful because you love them.
Re: "Converting the children"  [message #60723 is a reply to message #60722] Wed, 27 January 2010 03:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Macky is currently offline  Macky

Really getting into it
Location: USA
Registered: November 2008
Messages: 973



Beautiful little story, M. Thanks.
Max



Behold, how good and how pleasant it is
For brothers to dwell together in unity!
Ps 133:1 NASB
Re: "Converting the children"  [message #60727 is a reply to message #60722] Wed, 27 January 2010 12:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
acam is currently offline  acam

On fire!
Location: UK
Registered: July 2007
Messages: 1849



Wasn't he lucky to find you, M? and in a way weren't you lucky to find him. It's the sort of thing I'd love to be able to do, but there isn't an easy way for people needing that and those that offer it to meet.

And I'd probably be no good at it anyway. All my experience is fifty years old.

Love,
Anthony
Re: "Converting the children"  [message #60728 is a reply to message #60727] Wed, 27 January 2010 13:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
saben is currently offline  saben

On fire!

Registered: May 2003
Messages: 1537



Not really something you can force.

You find the people that need you when they need you. You can't be out promoting that you're there for them.



Look at this tree. I cannot make it blossom when it suits me nor make it bear fruit before its time [...] No matter what you do, that seed will grow to be a peach tree. You may wish for an apple or an orange, but you will get a peach.
Master Oogway
Update:  [message #60729 is a reply to message #60709] Wed, 27 January 2010 13:45 Go to previous message
saben is currently offline  saben

On fire!

Registered: May 2003
Messages: 1537



Well, Daniel "came out" as bicurious to his first female friend today. So that's news. He's still not sure where he stands on sex and stuff but I guess it's good that he has a friend that doesn't give a shit where he stands.

I have warned him not to say too much to too many people until he's made up his mind, though. It'd suck if he gets boxed into the "queer" box only to decide at 15 or 16 that he really does have a strong preference for girls.



Look at this tree. I cannot make it blossom when it suits me nor make it bear fruit before its time [...] No matter what you do, that seed will grow to be a peach tree. You may wish for an apple or an orange, but you will get a peach.
Master Oogway
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