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You are here: Home > Forum > A Place of Safety > General Talk > Kids, LGBT Issues, Adults? Some thoughts...
icon5.gif Kids, LGBT Issues, Adults? Some thoughts...  [message #60730] Wed, 27 January 2010 15:15 Go to next message
Brody Levesque is currently offline  Brody Levesque

Really getting into it
Location: US/Canada
Registered: September 2009
Messages: 733



I thought about replying to Saben's thread more than once over these past couple days and then decided instead to share my feelings & perspectives separately so as to not 'hijack' Saben's ongoing discussion.

Like most of the regular contributors on this MB I wear several 'hats' going about my daily routines. I'm a Dad first, a journalist second, and then I am an adult Gay man. As such, in all three personas, I found myself very uncomfortable with the term "converting." Primarily because in the United States where I reside, the Christibans and their allies have embraced that term as absolute doctrine when discussing their view of LGBT folk, but particularly Gay adult men, when Gay folk are dealing with minors.

Nearly 35 years ago, when San Francisco City Supervisor Harvey Milk was battling for LGBT Equality, he would often commence a speech with; "My name is Harvey Milk and I am here to recruit you!" Milk caught a tremendous amount of flack over use of the term recruit as the opposition pointed to his use of the word as evidence and absolute proof that homosexuals were on a never ending campaign to influence children to become like them and 'change into' homosexuals.

Nowadays, the Ultra-Right uses the verb 'convert' to essentially describe the exact same theorem. Personally, I get so tired of that issue being raised. I am so tired of explaining that I didn't make a choice, a conscious decision, I didn't have an 'aha!' moment and snap my fingers and presto, Brody's suddenly fabulous!

As a Dad, which some of us here also happen to be, there's a more personal note that this topic strikes. Now, I don't honestly know about the rest of you, but when it comes down to my kids, I get really suspicious if I see someone paying too close attention to them or if their behaviour alters outside of the track that they normally follow. Paranoid? Yeah I'm just a tad, but that's partly due to the fact that technology has radically changed the global methods and means by which people communicate. There is a much wider range of exposure to ALL kinds of people now including those who would do harm.

Then there's this. My youngest, my baby, is turning 21 on Friday, coincidentally I guess, and he is a child of the Internet. This is his world, the one he has grown up with. Here's the kicker, he's Gay and has been 'out' since he was 12. Part of his being out, proud, but mostly comfortable with his sexuality was because of the web and ironically not because the old man was Gay.

I asked him to read Saben's thread and then give me his perspective on it. Here's what he e-mailed back:

"Pops it's not like anything bad going on. I play Call of Duty online and sometimes you run into creeps so you just tell'em to fuck off or ignore them. As long as that guy isn't talking about sex stuff who cares?
The creepos always try sex stuff right away Pops. Kids are smarter than people think. Oh and this kid is just thinking with his dick big surprise huh? He's still jackin every chance he gets. But that guy talking to him should be smart and talk about the game stuff and just send him links to places that are legal like Trevor's. Risky if the dudes rents are super religious Pops."

And then he sent me the video I am going to post afterwards.

In the United States regretfully, there is an atmosphere of distrust of motivations, outright hatred, and yes, entirely too many creeps to use my son's lexicon that are out to 'groom' kids. I say this wearing my hat as a journalist now. But there is by far a greater number of LGBT folk who are willing to be supportive and work with the youth trying to find their way in this world as young LGBT human beings. The difficult part is striking the balance.

As a Gay man, I absolutely want FULL Equality, but I'd also like a world where kids, like the one talking to Saben, can do so freely and without reservation or fear and conversely, be counseled under those parameters.
It's just that in the U. S. and elsewhere, until that day arrives. My inclination would be to refer those kids to resources such as Trevor's Project as my son suggested or Matthew's Place. That way no 'questioning of motivations are involved' and legal protections are in place.

Unfair? ~sigh~ you betcha. But prudence and caution for now should rule.

Here's the video:
Kids, LGBT Issues, Adults? A question  [message #60731 is a reply to message #60730] Wed, 27 January 2010 17:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
timmy

Has no life at all
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13739



I have a question.

Is there a difference between a kid in a game chat room who approaches an adult for help and advice, and a kid who approaches someone here on an individual basis, or who approaches a gay author on an individual basis?

I'd appreciate thoughts on it, please.



Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
icon12.gif Re: Kids, LGBT Issues, Adults? A question  [message #60732 is a reply to message #60731] Wed, 27 January 2010 21:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Brody Levesque is currently offline  Brody Levesque

Really getting into it
Location: US/Canada
Registered: September 2009
Messages: 733



I shall also add this video to the discussion Tim:
Re: Kids, LGBT Issues, Adults? Some thoughts...  [message #60740 is a reply to message #60730] Thu, 28 January 2010 02:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
saben is currently offline  saben

On fire!

Registered: May 2003
Messages: 1537



I know some parents can get hysterical.

But I guess I'm the kind of person that tries to do what I think is right, morally. Regardless of the potential consequences. I mean- I weigh up the consequences- but I'm not gonna be scared off by them. Prudence and caution? I'll throw them to the wind.

I don't believe there's anything wrong with me being a friend to Daniel and even talking candidly about sex with him. I believe candid, open discussion is what teens want and what teens need. He's said to me I'd make an awesome teacher/ dad/ brother before. He had "male medical problem" one night that he was worried about and having someone he could openly ask about it helped put his mind to rest. Especially when it resolved itself within a day or two.

I mean, ideally a lot of the stuff he asks me he could ask his family. But I don't think teens LIKE to have a close relationship with their parents- even if their parents ARE easy going and open. I know that despite my mum being awesome and likely someone I could talk to about sex I would have much rathered a friend or someone I wasn't related to. Someone online that's "anonymous", or even just someone I'm not around as much- a youth group leader, etc. Someone that is a friend rather than disciplinary.

I guess since I'm only 25 I'm still in the friend category than someone older. I call myself an "old man" in jest and Daniel always downplays it. He doesn't see me as entirely an "adult", although I am. He sees the age gap as "only 11 years" rather than "almost double".

But I'm kind of hijacking your topic with my own personal experiences now, Brody!

My point about "conversion" was kind of tongue in cheek. I was using it deliberately. Because I do think "conversion" or at least influencing people happens. But I don't think it's a bad thing. I think the gay movement has become very shy and timid. It's become very "we'll stay out of your way and/ or try and assimilate into your stepford wives lifestyle".

I think the whole "we're not trying to convert anyone" "it's not a choice", while kind of accurate seems almost apologetic. I think there's nothing wrong with being gay, if some kids have gay role models and start to think more about being gay and live a life they wouldn't otherwise live how is that a bad thing? If straight kids experiment with each other more because being non-hetero is normalised then who cares? It's just sex! Even if being gay WERE a choice, why it is a bad choice? People make choices all the time that take them down different paths!

That's kind of why I deliberately used the word "conversion". I don't know if I am "converting" a teen to be less hetero. But I kind of I don't care if I am. Even if I am that's no worse than him having a role model that's a plumber and him deciding to go into plumbing as a result. And if he ends up straight he'll end at least have had some experienced that hopefully make him open minded towards people of other sexualities.

I'm gay and it's fine.

I have a friendship with a minor and it's fine.

I openly discuss sex with him and it's fine.

Society can go fuck itself if it disagrees. Because it doesn't have a logical reason for why anything I'm doing is wrong. It just has hysteria, superstition and religious myth.



Look at this tree. I cannot make it blossom when it suits me nor make it bear fruit before its time [...] No matter what you do, that seed will grow to be a peach tree. You may wish for an apple or an orange, but you will get a peach.
Master Oogway
Re: Video  [message #60741 is a reply to message #60730] Thu, 28 January 2010 05:47 Go to previous message
saben is currently offline  saben

On fire!

Registered: May 2003
Messages: 1537



I actually didn't watch it the first time I read the post. But I did just now and apart from the obvious "aww- he's cute". It got me to thinking how foreign that kid's coming out experience is to my own.

Coming out to him seems only a little more complicated than the relationship difficulties any 13 year old goes through. There is none of the heart wrenching anguish that I felt when I was going through my own coming out process. Maybe we just don't see that? Or maybe it's really just easier for kids now... That easy. I hope so. Because if so that's amazing.

And thank "god".

[Updated on: Thu, 28 January 2010 05:47]




Look at this tree. I cannot make it blossom when it suits me nor make it bear fruit before its time [...] No matter what you do, that seed will grow to be a peach tree. You may wish for an apple or an orange, but you will get a peach.
Master Oogway
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