A Place of Safety
I expect simple behaviours here. Friendship, and love.
Any advice should be from the perspective of the person asking, not the person giving!
We have had to make new membership moderated to combat the huge number of spammers who register
















You are here: Home > Forum > A Place of Safety > General Talk > Forum
Forum  [message #61646] Sun, 28 March 2010 13:53 Go to next message
attatood.too is currently offline  attatood.too

Likes it here
Location: Canada
Registered: March 2010
Messages: 188




Hi Guys,

I am not new to the site, but I am relatively new to this forum and am impressed with the way things are handled here with the help and advice given to the younger folks. I am at a very hard spot in my own life and was wondering if anyone knows of a similar forum where a fellow who is both far from youth and far from retirement can regale his story and hear some opinions in order to help make some decisions?Confused??



I prefer guys that don't come in a box.
Re: Forum  [message #61647 is a reply to message #61646] Sun, 28 March 2010 14:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
NW is currently offline  NW

On fire!
Location: Worcester, England
Registered: January 2005
Messages: 1558



There's a mainly-UK gay site http://www.outeverywhere.com (I think) that has a very helpful set of support forums: pay membership, though it's useable (and posting to support threads is allowed as a guest. I'm a long-term member as saxifraga_umbros



"The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral, begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy. ... Returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night devoid of stars." Martin Luther King
Re: Forum  [message #61648 is a reply to message #61646] Sun, 28 March 2010 18:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
timmy

Has no life at all
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13739



This one is not age specific, my friend.



Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
Timmy beat me to it ...  [message #61649 is a reply to message #61648] Sun, 28 March 2010 19:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
The Gay Deceiver is currently offline  The Gay Deceiver

Really getting into it
Location: Canada
Registered: December 2003
Messages: 869




... I was going to ask "Why not here?"

There is a wealth of Human Resource here; granted much of it not frequently heard from; but, we have been known to hear from them; and who knows your question(s) just might be the catalyst necessary to bring one or two of them out from the shadows, even if for just a little while.

Warren C. E. Austin
The Gay Deceiver
Toronto, Canada



"... comme recherché qu'un délice callipygian"
Re: Timmy beat me to it ...  [message #61651 is a reply to message #61649] Sun, 28 March 2010 22:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
timmy

Has no life at all
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13739



My last experience with something called "Human Resource" was losing a job!

Seriously, though, what matters is that someone gets help form somewhere. This board os for folk who need help and advice, but it may not suit everyone. If we were the only game in town I'd be worried.



Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
My Life  [message #61652 is a reply to message #61649] Sun, 28 March 2010 23:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
attatood.too is currently offline  attatood.too

Likes it here
Location: Canada
Registered: March 2010
Messages: 188




Thank you guys. I appreciate the opportunity since I feel somewhat comfortable here already. Excuse me if I seem a little long winded, but I think it necessary to give you a timeline and some history in order for you to "know" me and to know how I got to where I am if you are to be able to give me your thoughts. Dammit, I can't believe I'm typing this.

Born Dec, 1960. (See, hows that for timeline?). At the age of 5 I was placed into a competitive swim club, (still competing to this day)and it was there that I noticed that I was starting to look at the other boys and had every opportunity to do so.

Age 10, I went to summer scout camp and since all of the bunk cabins were full, the other ranking scout (who just happened to be extremely cute) and I were placed into a cabin by ourselves. Bedtime "dare" games became a nightly thing after we both found that we were greatly enjoying what we were doing, and even though we knew next to nothing about sex at that age, looking back now I think that there wasn't a whole lot left that we did not do. I grew close to Terry during this time and the 3 week camp ended way too soon. He and his family moved away shortly thereafter and I soon began to miss what we had had.

Getting into my teens, I still had no desire for anyone but boys and knew that I was gay. I became extremely adept at manipulating my friends into having sex with me in order to regain the physical contact that I needed so badly. There were 4 boys that I was regular with, 2 of whom were brothers which was a treat but unfortunately there was no real "love" involved, only teenage lust.

When I turned 16 I began to question whether I was going through a normal phase or if I was actually gay, I mean, I had never really been with a girl other than a couple of kisses as a front for my friends. It was then that I met a really nice girl and after a few dates we "hooked up". It did absolutely nothing for me, in fact, truth to tell, it kind of revolted me. Just to be sure I gave it a second try a few nights later. Guess what... right, nothing. We tried to stay friends, but that lasted only a week or so before it dwindled.

Now for a big one. Three weeks later, she told me she was pregnant (Yes, I know... protection. But I was a kid and didn't think.). I asked her to terminate (please don't judge... I am still hurting over this), but she wouldn't have anything to do with that. So, I ran. Yep, like a coward.

I just carried on with my life until I ran into her a year and a half later and she had with her the most beautiful baby boy I had ever seen. I looked deep into his absolutely stunning deep-blue eyes, and I knew for a fact he was mine. What did I do? I said "How are you Dianne?" and a few minutes later "It was nice seeing you again". Here I had the chance to fix this... and I freaking ran again. Damn.

Carrying on with my life, I had a few casual boyfriends, but getting into the early 80's AIDS was becoming a big issue, and to be gay was almost begging to get slaughtered. So far, the only people that knew I was gay were the guys I had been with and as you know, being gay does nothing to diminish the paternal desires. So I continued to hide who I am and at 24 I met and married my current wife. She had and still has a very slight build with a short haircut giving her an almost "boyish" look which I think may be all that attracted me to her. When I was 26 our first of 2 daughters was born and even though the marriage was becoming unstable I vowed to myself that I would never again abandon another child. I would do anything it took to hold this marriage together so that the kids grew up in a 2 parent family and so that I could teach, love and help them in life to become the adults that they have now become. I vowed myself 25 years in order to do this. After the first 10 years, the marriage became so rocky that I got a job that took me away from home for 5 days and then back home for 5 in order to keep me away from home for long enough to make the marriage work but be home enough to raise the children.

in 1995 I became attracted to a guy I met and I really missed being with men. We got to know each other very well and became boyfriends. Peter and I (also my first name.. kind of amusing - 2 Peters) have been very much in love since then. Well, until now. My 25 year vow is at it's end but it is so hard to end something after all of that time. My wife and I love each other but have never really been "in love". I mean, there hasn't even been any intimacy since shortly after my 19 year old was married, not that I minded. But it's weird that she hasn't suspected anything since I never even ask her for sex and in fact we haven't slept in the same bed since the late 80's. Anyway, I digress... Thing is, Peter stopped talking to me 2 months ago. Point blank... just stopped. He wont return my calls, answer my texts, or even respond to me on facebook. I think it is because I haven't left my wife to be with him full time. I wish he would talk to me and let me know what the his feelings are. I miss him sooo much. I don't want to chase him down and seem like I'm stalking him though either. Every time I get it in my head that I am going to leave my wife, she does something nice and I back down and don't have the heart to carry it through. I really wish she would get mad and just leave me... That would be the easy way (easy way... again the story of my life). I just don't have the balls to leave, but I am so happy when I am with Peter. Divorce has never been in my families' history, and DAMN! This is hard.

I am sorry I dragged this out guys, and please don't judge. I know that I have been an ass most of my life hiding myself and living basically 2 different lives. I am so depressed I can't stand it. Over the years I had even thought of taking the cowards way out but didn't even have the balls to do that. I am so pathetic.

Now you know me and thanks for "listening".

Any comments are appreciated, I will check back tomorrow night since I will be out of town until then.

:-[



I prefer guys that don't come in a box.
Re: My Life  [message #61653 is a reply to message #61652] Mon, 29 March 2010 00:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
chrisjames147 is currently offline  chrisjames147

Really getting into it
Location: U.S.
Registered: November 2009
Messages: 630



Hello Peter,
Welcome to the forum and I thank you for your honesty. You deny courage on your part but what you tell us here disproves that. Speaking openly about your circumstances is often difficult and embarassing. Because of that some of the members here will likely approach you privately thru an email if they need to share things in common. And some things are best left private despite the curiousity of others.
Many of the men here are married, this you already know, and they may be better equiped to share their understanding of it all with you. So I think you have taken the first step, the hardest step...the brave step. I will continue my thoughts to you in private.
Hugs,
Chris



Age appears to be best in four things; old wood best to burn, old wine to drink, old friends to trust, and old authors to read. (Sir Francis Bacon 1561-1626)
Re: My Life  [message #61654 is a reply to message #61652] Mon, 29 March 2010 00:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
timmy

Has no life at all
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13739



I think I would like to know more, now, about what you except to happen if you leave your wife, and why you expect it to happen. NOT what will happen of she leaves you or kicks you out, but what will happen if you choose to leave her.



Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
Re: My Life  [message #61655 is a reply to message #61652] Mon, 29 March 2010 01:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Macky is currently offline  Macky

Really getting into it
Location: USA
Registered: November 2008
Messages: 973



"I think it is because I haven't left my wife to be with him full time."

Or maybe your Peter found somebody that he likes better. Or maybe he's sick. Or maybe he's caring for a relative.

Seems like Job 1 is determining why he won't see you.

If he restores the relationship tomorrow, will things still be bad?

Max



Behold, how good and how pleasant it is
For brothers to dwell together in unity!
Ps 133:1 NASB
Re: My Life  [message #61657 is a reply to message #61655] Mon, 29 March 2010 07:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
timmy

Has no life at all
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13739



If this were about friend Peter, then I would agree with you. But it isn't.

First and foremost it s about Peter the Poster. The lack of contact is a catalyst, no more and no less, though it appears important right now.



Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
Re: My Life  [message #61658 is a reply to message #61652] Mon, 29 March 2010 08:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
acam is currently offline  acam

On fire!
Location: UK
Registered: July 2007
Messages: 1849



Dear Attatood,

The differences between your position, now and mine twenty-odd years ago is the sex and openness. I was always able to enjoy sex with my wife and was never 'unfaithful' to her and she knows I say I'm gay and has done since before we got engaged. And we are friends and friends with our daughters and their families and they live within three miles so we see them often and they all know about me.

But I think if I tried to find a man to have sex with it could bring the whole thing tumbling down and in any case I'm 75 and doing that couldn't be easy. So I haven't.

But you are obviously gayer than I am and find it harder (I mean the strain of living with your wife sexlessly) and I suspect you are not such close friends with your wife (don't mean to be rude). For example I'm happy for mine to read this and to invite friends I've met on this forum home and introduce her to them (and she knows where they come from and that they are gay).

And some people can tell their wives and have it accepted and stay friends and go on living together and meeting their children together and so it doesn't **have** to break the family up to come 'out'. But only you can judge what the effect would be.

And only you can choose between what you think would be the consequences of being thrown out or divorcing and the consequences of staying with your wife.

Some people find it difficult to be open about their feelings - especially those that do not conform to society's norms. As Timmy has said to people here many times - if you can't talk about it then you ought not to do it.

And if you can't talk about your problems, particularly to the other person most affected - your wife - then it is going to be very hard to find the solution which is least unpleasant for both of you.

Or best, of course. Some people who come out to their wives begin a new life that is much better than they dreamed. Maybe it is possible for you to improve both your life and hers. Do you know what she wants? Has she anything she wants which would be worth talking about? Does she have a job or career that she cares about?

What do you expect to do when you retire?

Love,
Anthony
Re: My Life  [message #61660 is a reply to message #61658] Mon, 29 March 2010 12:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
timmy

Has no life at all
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13739



acam wrote:
> Some people find it difficult to be open about their feelings - especially those that do not conform to society's norms. As Timmy has said to people here many times - if you can't talk about it then you ought not to do it.

I'm not sure I've ever said that, and I'm not sure what it means.



Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
icon13.gif Re: My Life  [message #61661 is a reply to message #61660] Mon, 29 March 2010 13:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Brody Levesque is currently offline  Brody Levesque

Really getting into it
Location: US/Canada
Registered: September 2009
Messages: 733



Acam, using the phrase 'society's norms' is quite frankly offensive to people that don't buy into or subscribe to the kind of thinking. I refer to more than the LGBTQ community as well. What is the 'norm?' Are you saying that LGBT people aren't of the norm?

While that may have been true 20 or more years ago, it sure as hell isn't now.

I can say this because as a journalist it's my job to chronicle human existence and societal/cultural issues & events globally. That kind of thinking is exactly why LGBTQ activists are literally pissed off at the older generations of Gay men and some older Lesbians. Today's LGBTQ youth don't accept a 'norm' or any variation thereof. They hate labels and rightly so.

Oh one last thing, I have found Tim's stance on discussion to be as far as possible from what you stated. I know, I quite literally chat with him nearly everyday and I have yet to see that kind of philosophy ever being expressed by him.
No, I have never said that.  [message #61664 is a reply to message #61660] Mon, 29 March 2010 15:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
timmy

Has no life at all
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13739



I am now sure that, whatever it means, I have never said it. It's a ludicrous thing to say anyway. I can;t talk in any meaningful way about kite surfing, motorcycle racing, base jumping, long distance open water swimming and so much else. But being unable to have a meaningful conversation about these things would not prevent me from doing them.

Then there are things I find disgusting. Eating snails, for example. I can talk about that, but I will not do it.

Ascribing this set of words to me is http://tinyurl.com/yhwemrm



Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
Re: My Life  [message #61665 is a reply to message #61660] Mon, 29 March 2010 15:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
acam is currently offline  acam

On fire!
Location: UK
Registered: July 2007
Messages: 1849



Timmy,
I think it was in the context of negotiating safer sex - but If I've taken your name in vain I apologise.

Love,
Anthony
Re: My Life  [message #61666 is a reply to message #61665] Mon, 29 March 2010 16:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
timmy

Has no life at all
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13739



Well, there you have me. That is the only type of area I can think of where it makes sense. If you cant talk about condoms then do not have penetrative sex.



Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
Re: My Life  [message #61671 is a reply to message #61652] Mon, 29 March 2010 20:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Altimexis is currently offline  Altimexis

Getting started
Location: New York City
Registered: March 2010
Messages: 6




I too am a middle-aged gay man who's married to a woman. I actually came very close to accepting myself for what I was and coming out when I was 29, but I made the mistake of seeing a shrink. I lived near San Francisco at the time, so I thought I'd get some help in learning to feel comfortable in my own skin, but instead the shrink told me, among other things, that it was not a good time to be gay. As if I had a choice! He concluded I was 'at most' bisexual because I'd had multiple long-term relationships with women. Didn't he realize that so have many, many gay men? Apparently not. Well, it was the mid-80's and AIDS was a major concern, so I can see where he was coming from. If I was 'at most' bisexual, why not be straight? I actually listened to him - I was so naive back then!

Anyway, for better or for worse, I met my wife just a week after that. We fell madly in love and were married just seven months later. Our relationship was physical at first, but less so with time. Still, our love has not diminished, and it is that love that makes the relationship work. Still, I found I could not live a life of deceit in the long run, and so on our twentieth anniversary, I came out to my wife. That was 4 1/2 years ago, and we're still together.

I have managed to satisfy the gay side of me by writing. I am a hosted author at GayAuthors and at AwesomeDude, where I have two novels, two novellas and a slew of short stories. One of these is a fictionalized account of my coming out to my wife, titled The New Job (http://awesomedude.com/altimexis/short_stories/TheNewJob.htm). For anyone considering coming out to their wife, it's a worthwhile read.

I can't tell you what to do in your particular situation. I take marriage very seriously and would never consider having an affair, male or female, while I'm married to my wife. I realize that most people, gay and straight, aren't like that. I've been in contact with a number of people on the Net in similar situations, however, and can report the obvious - there are no guarantees. A number of men remain in the closet and married, and seem to be happy. I know from personal experience that doesn't stop the yearning, however. I know of some men who left their wives and found love with another man. Unfortunately, I know of at least as many men if not more who left their wives and never found a mate.

I think that if a person is in a bad relationship, they should get out, period. If they're in a loving relationship, however, there is always the saying that a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. It's sometimes better to be grateful for what you have than to lament what you don't. If you're in love with someone else, however, you definitely need to make a decision. It's not fair to either party to string them along, and you could seriously end up losing both your wife and your lover.

I'm a bit concerned in your case that your gay lover has cut you off. If they weren't willing to wait for you to leave your wife, they should have told you. Communication is the key. If you still have some contact, you should ask him if he will be there for you if you leave your wife. If he can't give you an honest, heartfelt answer, then he is not someone you should be building your life around. It's better to forget about him and take a fresh look at the situation with him out of the picture. The last thing you want to do is to leave your wife in a desperate attempt to woo him back.

Finally, a word about age. 51 is still young enough to attract a boyfriend, but the chances of finding someone are perhaps at best 50-50, and that will only worsen with time. I have a story coming out in the fall about a widower who finds a gay mate in his early seventies, but that is the exception. The older on gets, the more lopsided the demographics become. It's tough to find and entice an older man into a relationship when there are ten times as many widows chasing after him. My editor is fifteen years older than I am, and found my portrayal of the situation to be totally accurate from his own personal experience. Elderly widows will stop at nothing to get a man to walk down the aisle with them.

Good luck!

Altimexis



When I have the time, some witty comment will go here.
Re: My Life  [message #61672 is a reply to message #61671] Mon, 29 March 2010 21:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Macky is currently offline  Macky

Really getting into it
Location: USA
Registered: November 2008
Messages: 973



Welcome Altimexis. Did you just find us or have you been lurking for a while? I find your story remarkably similar to mine except I came out to my wife during the month of our 21st wedding anniversary.

There are other older gay guys here who are out and are in love with and faithful to their wives. There are also some who have left bad relationships.

I think that most here would agree with your description of the options available to older gay married guys.

Max



Behold, how good and how pleasant it is
For brothers to dwell together in unity!
Ps 133:1 NASB
Re: My Life  [message #61674 is a reply to message #61672] Mon, 29 March 2010 22:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Altimexis is currently offline  Altimexis

Getting started
Location: New York City
Registered: March 2010
Messages: 6




Actually, I've been on the IOMfAtS mailing list for some time, but I tend to avoid forums as much as I can. I find them to be a black hole into which all time disappears and were I to frequent all the many forums (fora?) applicable to my life, I'd never have any time for my writing. In this case, one of my readers sent me here specifically to reply to attatood since his situation bears a resemblance to mine. A lot of people have contacted me in the three years since I posted my story, The New Job, all of them to tell me how they are in similar situations. I thought the readers of this forum and in particular, attatood, might like to read it if they were not already aware of it.

I'm convinced that at least half the gay men of our generation did what they thought they were supposed to do and got married. I was already 13 when Stonewall happened, but living in the ultra-conservative American Midwest, I didn't learn of it until much later. I grew up being aware I was attracted to guys, hoping my feelings were normal, which of course they were, but not for the reasons I thought, and desperately hoping I could overcome my attractions and start liking girls. Can we have a show of hands of all who can relate to this?



When I have the time, some witty comment will go here.
Re: My Life  [message #61676 is a reply to message #61674] Mon, 29 March 2010 22:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
timmy

Has no life at all
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13739



That's easy, but can we put it in a new thread? I'd kind of like to get this one back to the originator;s question.



Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
Re: My Life  [message #61677 is a reply to message #61676] Mon, 29 March 2010 22:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Altimexis is currently offline  Altimexis

Getting started
Location: New York City
Registered: March 2010
Messages: 6




Actually, my question was meant to be rhetorical, but if someone would like to start a poll on the subject in a separate thread, I'm sure it would be of interest. I think a lot of us can relate to attatood's life and times. Letting him know he's not alone I think does relate to his original question. I've given him a link to my own coming out story and outlined his options. How is that off-topic?



When I have the time, some witty comment will go here.
Re: My Life  [message #61681 is a reply to message #61677] Tue, 30 March 2010 04:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
attatood.too is currently offline  attatood.too

Likes it here
Location: Canada
Registered: March 2010
Messages: 188




Wow. I am blown away. I was sort of expecting to return to harsh and/or cruel criticism and lectures. Instead, I find compassion, constructive thoughts and people who actually seem to care. If we were in the same room, I would be hugging each of you right now. All these years (I'm 49 if you do the math... I think someone put me at 51... not yet) I have thought that I was the only one who could get himself into such a mess and here I find others in (or who have been in) similar situations. I'm dumbfounded.

Reading back over my original post I must correct that there has been no sex with the wife since my 19 year old was BORN, not married... because if she is, then I wasn't invited to that wedding.

Macky said:

"Or maybe your Peter found somebody that he likes better. Or maybe he's sick. Or maybe he's caring for a relative.

Seems like Job 1 is determining why he won't see you.

If he restores the relationship tomorrow, will things still be bad?":

I doubt that either of the first 2 statements are true. His Facebook posts (though rare) seem normal enough. The last time I was with him though (I had spent the night) he had hinted that a room mate (house mate, flat mate... whatever) would be nice. I had said "maybe I should just move in, huh? Make things alot simpler". His reply was simply "You know you are always welcome".

No Macky, if he would restore the relationship it wouldn't be bad. Nothing can be bad when it comes to him. It may even give me direction. You see, when we are together things just "click". There is chemistry. We are equals. When we make love, there is no top, no bottom. We enjoy each other as the moment dictates. There is nothing that is dirty or disgusts us when it comes to each others bodies and there is spontaneity. For instance, I remember a recent time when we were on our way up to his room and the notion took him to grab me from behind on the stairs, strip me and make love to me half-way up. If an outsider had taken this in, it would probably have been very comical as we struggled not to slide all the way back down to the bottom.He is a very fun individual to be with. When I sleep at home, I am alone in a king-sized bed. When I sleep at Peter's house, we start off snuggled in a queen-sized bed and by morning arms and legs are tangled and intertwined. This is what makes me happy. One of my biggest fears in life is being alone.


Timmy said:

"I think I would like to know more, now, about what you except to happen if you leave your wife, and why you expect it to happen. NOT what will happen of she leaves you or kicks you out, but what will happen if you choose to leave her."

Actually Timmy, each scenario would have the same end result. The difference being that if she leaves me, then I would not have to be the one explaining why I am leaving. I'm not much into confrontation and I just can't see me coming up with a suitable explanation that I wouldn't choke on while trying to get it out. Keep in mind, this is entirely about matters of the heart an absolutely nothing monetary. I would have absolutely no qualms about giving her everything if need be. Possessions are mere material items and although there are many, they mean little to me except as items, and items can be re-purchased if you want them bad enough. The fact is, I still love her as a friend, and a companion (how can I not after 25 years of being together. She is after all the mother of my kids... well the last 2 anyway) but in the same household we are just room mates. I need something more. I need love and affection. The kind of love and affection that I just can't get from a woman. I want to be hugged and kissed when I come home, to love (really loved) and be loved in return.

Thank you Brody, Chris and Warren for your input too.

Altimexis:

Thanks for your post. It made me feel a kindred spirit... that I am not alone in this situation. I will indeed check out the link you posted.

They say that you can't have your cake and eat it too. But then, what is the point in having it? Unfortunately, I seem to have been quite content for the past 15 or so years in having the familiarity and security of my home life with my wife AND the love of a good man. Peter. My lover. But perhaps I am now being shown how true that quote actually is.

They also say that moving forward is easy, what is left behind is what's hard. And that is the hurdle that I now face. Turn left or turn right. Or stay where I am and hope everything comes back to me.

After 25 years of carefully building my life brick by brick, coming out to someone would surely dissolve the mortar and bring it all down on my head. I mean, my entire family is gay-friendly (I'm sure I had a little to do with that Smile), in fact I have a gay niece and my girls have friends who are gay. But their own father??? I can't see that one having a happy ending.

Either way I want Peter. (Obviously huh?) Oh, damn! I forgot one key piece of information. Peter himself was married and has a 12 year old daughter. He divorced about 5 years ago and has gone through hell. I watched him and stood by him as he lost everything including rights to see his own child. He is only just beginning to recover but still rarely gets to see his girl. My own kids are now adults so I would not have to worry about that scenario, but just seeing how vicious a woman-scorned can be has struck the fear of God in me. I honestly believe that if any of the key points in my life that I have disclosed to you had been changed even one little bit, then I wouldn't be having this problem... um, ok, re-thinking that, if any of that had changed I may not have met Peter, so let's scrap that. Damn! I wish he would talk to me. I love him. Why is life so damned hard??? Sad



I prefer guys that don't come in a box.
Re: My Life  [message #61682 is a reply to message #61681] Tue, 30 March 2010 06:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
timmy

Has no life at all
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13739



You've told me about wanting to be loved. I know you want Peter. I know that men make you happy and your wife makes you comfortable.

But you need to answer the question. If you fail to answer it then you will go off on the primrose path to nowhere.

So what do you expect to happen?

Look at your life as it is today, and tell yourself what you expect to happen. The only reason I want you to tell me is because that makes you vocalise it. So far you haven't done that. You've sidestepped it neatly, but it's yourself you are sidestepping round. You are about to consider a huge decision, to stay or to go. You need to do this with a full set of information.

So what do you expect to happen if you leave her. And the scenario is different if she leaves you or you manage to force her to leave you. You may think it's the same, but it isn't. You will be different.

You need to separate your love for Peter from the decision you are about to consider. Assuming that it is love, not comfort, not excitement. Heck, what if he farts in bed all night, or snores, or spends his days in a wifebeater drinking beer and you just don't know. Since he ain't there right now waiting for you, what do you expect to happen if you leave her?

This decision does not depend on Peter, it's your decision. So what do you expect to happen if you leave?

[Updated on: Tue, 30 March 2010 11:32]




Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
Re: My Life  [message #61683 is a reply to message #61682] Tue, 30 March 2010 14:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
saben is currently offline  saben

On fire!

Registered: May 2003
Messages: 1537



I think Timmy's point here is a strong one.

I'm only 25 so I've still got a lot to learn about life.

But I think you need to be careful about leaving your wife for Peter.

Instead think about leaving your wife to be a single, gay man. Would that be worth it?



Look at this tree. I cannot make it blossom when it suits me nor make it bear fruit before its time [...] No matter what you do, that seed will grow to be a peach tree. You may wish for an apple or an orange, but you will get a peach.
Master Oogway
Re: My Life  [message #61684 is a reply to message #61682] Tue, 30 March 2010 15:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
attatood.too is currently offline  attatood.too

Likes it here
Location: Canada
Registered: March 2010
Messages: 188




ummm, yeah. You're right you know. The fact is, I don't know what to expect and that is a good part of my fear.. the unknown. Timmy, I don't know how, but you now have my mind running down paths I was avoiding, or never thought of. It scares me. I hate this train of thought, I have tears running down my cheeks and this shit never happens to me... damn.

As you say, this is about me not him. As do most people, I fear being alone. I don't have to be if I stay and just leave things alone.

No. I need to know. Not just want to know, I NEED it. After 15 years, I deserve some sort of an answer. I need to know where we stand and I need to know his thoughts. I was going to hop on my motorcycle this morning and run some errands anyway so I think I will swing past his place and see if he's home.

Thing is, I need to step lightly in my life at the moment. One wrong move and I could lose it all. But, if that happens and the shit hits the fan I suppose I could always move to Australia or England where most of my extended family is and start over. I have long standing job offers so it would be one back-up plan. Wow, my brain really IS running amok here. Ok, so I'll let my head settle down and go run my errands.



I prefer guys that don't come in a box.
Re: My Life  [message #61685 is a reply to message #61684] Tue, 30 March 2010 15:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
timmy

Has no life at all
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13739



I'm not apologetic for making you think. I am truly sorry that the process is a painful one, but I will, if you allow me, continue to make you think.

I like Saben's point. He has stated clearly the position I hoped you would come to.

From my perspective, I have no concerns myself whether you leave your wife or whether you remain with her, as long as, in either case, you care about how you behave, you make a good decision, and you make her life better by the decision.

Seeing Peter today is interesting. But, if you leave her for him and it all goes tits up, what then?

This is why I ask what you expect to happen, not what you hope will happen.

And yes, you could go to the other side of the world. At worst it's a day away by air. And the phone reaches there, so it isn't as far as you think. or you could piss everyone who loves you off by topping yourself. Or you could choose to have a nervous breakdown. But you are stronger than that.

You have it in you to make the right choice. I've no idea what that is, but you must be clear about why you choose it and what that choice means.



Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
Re: My Life  [message #61686 is a reply to message #61684] Tue, 30 March 2010 16:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Altimexis is currently offline  Altimexis

Getting started
Location: New York City
Registered: March 2010
Messages: 6




Even inaction is a form of action. If you do nothing, you run the risk of losing everything, or maybe not, but you'll never know. Hiding a secret from your wife is extremely problematic for a number of reasons, but I think the most important one is that if you truly love someone, you owe them your honesty. Believe me, I know. I kept my secret for 20 years. I got lucky when I came out - we have lots of gay and lesbian friends, so I knew she would not hate me for being gay, but having a gay husband is a whole other matter. We worked through our difficulties and I feel as if a heavy burden has been lifted from me. However, she's made it clear that if she ever found out I was having an affair, whether it's with a man or a woman, she'd cut my balls off.

There are some rare situations in which a wife is able to accept her husband having a gay lover on the side. Some women are more comfortable, however, with a husband who sleeps around rather than one having a long-term affair, seeing that as a direct competition for their love. Others rightly so recognize that a stable affair is much safer than having a husband who sleeps around. I would guess that more than 95% of women, however, would not be willing to share their husband with someone else.

If you do decide to come out to your wife, the first thing she'll likely ask is if there's someone else, so you need to be prepared for that. Divorce is messy, and the only winners are the lawyers. If your wish is to leave your wife, be prepared to offer a generous divorce settlement instead of fighting her. It will save you both a lot of heartache in the end.



When I have the time, some witty comment will go here.
Re: My Life  [message #61687 is a reply to message #61686] Tue, 30 March 2010 16:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
timmy

Has no life at all
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13739



The doing of nothing is, or should be, an informed choice in the same manner that doing something is one. This is why the decision must come from him and he must work out what his advice to himself is. This is why I am, at present, asking the very hard questions rather than giving any answers



Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
Re: My Life  [message #61688 is a reply to message #61684] Tue, 30 March 2010 16:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Macky is currently offline  Macky

Really getting into it
Location: USA
Registered: November 2008
Messages: 973



Atty,

Saben once told me "All relationships are messy." Those are 4 little words that mean so much to me. Let me explain how that is.

To grow in a relationship, you have to surrender some of your freedoms. You can be totally free and you will be totally alone. Or you can practice a modicum of self-restriction in order to grow truly close to another person.

I am convinced that a truly meaingful relationship only grows out of the efforts of both parties. It's like each has to sacrifice some "me" so that the material can be used to build an "us".

So in thinking about this you might also want to consider how much effort would be thrown away by writing off your relationship with your wife. Also to consider how much effort would go into forming a relationship with someone new. And there will be effort involved. It will be work. "All relationships are messy."

What would happen if instead of starting over, you used your efforts to fortify what you have? What's the best you can expect out of what you have?

Max



Behold, how good and how pleasant it is
For brothers to dwell together in unity!
Ps 133:1 NASB
Re: My Life  [message #61689 is a reply to message #61688] Tue, 30 March 2010 17:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
saben is currently offline  saben

On fire!

Registered: May 2003
Messages: 1537



Yeah- I'm in a relationship with another guy and it's far from all roses!

That said- if Ryan suddenly became female or our sex life died I don't think I'd stay with him.

Intimacy and sex are really important to me. A cold relationship without that is something I'd struggle a lot with. If he let me see other people it might be something I could handle. But warm, loving sex is one of the big things that sets a relationship apart from a friendship.

You have been your wife for a long time, though. So something is obviously working. Any new relationship is going to be a gamble with no guarantee of success. But risk and opportunity go hand-in-hand. But with risk comes hurt and failure, too.

So there is a lot to consider.



Look at this tree. I cannot make it blossom when it suits me nor make it bear fruit before its time [...] No matter what you do, that seed will grow to be a peach tree. You may wish for an apple or an orange, but you will get a peach.
Master Oogway
Re: My Life  [message #61693 is a reply to message #61683] Tue, 30 March 2010 18:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
attatood.too is currently offline  attatood.too

Likes it here
Location: Canada
Registered: March 2010
Messages: 188




Good Point Saben. I'm not sure I want to be a single man... gay OR straight. Want and NEED someone in my life to share it with. Thank you for this thought.



I prefer guys that don't come in a box.
Re: My Life  [message #61695 is a reply to message #61685] Tue, 30 March 2010 18:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
attatood.too is currently offline  attatood.too

Likes it here
Location: Canada
Registered: March 2010
Messages: 188




I'm also not looking for apologies. This is why I started this thread in the first place, to get different perspectives. Ones that (as I am seeing now) never crossed my mind because it has been so clouded with just one thing. I sincerely appreciate your time (everyone's) in helping me with this.

As for the nervous breakdown, I am stronger than that... but truth to tell, I have bawled my eyes out in private several times(shhhh!) Topping myself hasn't (and won't) enter the equation either. Might be nice to go around the world too, but I'd be kidding myself to think that that would be any easier. It was just a thought.



I prefer guys that don't come in a box.
Re: My Life  [message #61696 is a reply to message #61686] Tue, 30 March 2010 19:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
attatood.too is currently offline  attatood.too

Likes it here
Location: Canada
Registered: March 2010
Messages: 188




That's an interesting thought. However, hiding something about yourself is not necessarily a bad thing. The way I see it, if what you tell someone will hurt them, and not benefit or enhance their life in any way whatsoever, then does it really need to be said? That can only cause grief and suspicion and therefore make the rest of your time together less than amicable. We all have skeletons in our closets and sometimes maybe they just need to stay there for the benefit of all involved... hmmm, this never crossed my mind before and quite possibly I am answering my own question here. I must think more on this.



I prefer guys that don't come in a box.
Re: My Life  [message #61697 is a reply to message #61688] Tue, 30 March 2010 19:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
attatood.too is currently offline  attatood.too

Likes it here
Location: Canada
Registered: March 2010
Messages: 188




I like this Macky... funny though, I was just beginning to think along these exact lines. 25 years is a long time to put into something, just to throw it all away on a whim. Indeed, more thought on my part is required along these lines.

[Updated on: Tue, 30 March 2010 19:41]




I prefer guys that don't come in a box.
Re: My Life  [message #61700 is a reply to message #61696] Tue, 30 March 2010 20:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Macky is currently offline  Macky

Really getting into it
Location: USA
Registered: November 2008
Messages: 973



"The way I see it, if what you tell someone will hurt them, and not benefit or enhance their life in any way whatsoever, then does it really need to be said?"

I was thinking along these same lines last year around this time. I finally came out to my wife because, not having had sex for 14 years, she thought I found her unappealing.

Little did I expect that the one who would benefit most from the revelation was me, not her. I now have someone to share the burdon of being a closeted gay man with.

I invite her to read all my forums, stories, and email and to watch gay movies with me. She gives me as long a leash as she can. I can openly do just about whatever I please, but no boyfriend on the side. Our sex life took off again. Wonderful experience for me to see what a great lady I married. It was like a rebirth of our relationship; this time with the real me.

If someone would have told me that things would be this way last February, I would have thought they were crazy.

Max



Behold, how good and how pleasant it is
For brothers to dwell together in unity!
Ps 133:1 NASB
Conclusions and Hard Decisions  [message #61706 is a reply to message #61697] Wed, 31 March 2010 05:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
attatood.too is currently offline  attatood.too

Likes it here
Location: Canada
Registered: March 2010
Messages: 188




I just finished a 5 km swim. You know, not only is it good for the body but also the mind. You are all alone in the water and have lots of time to think and work out your stress (some of the scenery is nice too Wink ) and it is amazing how all of your comments came together and helped me come to some conclusions:

- Obviously Peter doesn't feel the same for me as I feel for him, otherwise he wouldn't be doing this. Therefore, it is useless to waste my time and energy chasing something that may never be. Even if we did get together, what would stop him from pulling this shit again sometime?

- I am happy at home and comfortable in a life that has been 25 years in the making. Regardless of the circumstances that led me to where I am or the initial intent of my 25 year vow, I have a good life and a wife who loves me. Even without intimacy (which is moot anyway) there is love, and hell my right hand still works Smile

-I am me. I have always been me. The fact that nobody knows I am gay is not a bad thing. Nobody (other than the obvious people) have ever known that, and I still am happy. There is no sense disturbing a whole lot of people by telling them something that they need not know. However, this being said, I will not lie to them if the question ever comes up but nobody has ever asked and I see no need to just blurt that fact out for no reason.

-Whatever happens, happens. If Peter calls or I find another man along life's path, I will just play those cards as they lay. A friend is a friend and I see no problem with a little intimacy amongst friends as long as you don't disrupt a whole lot of other peoples lives in doing so. I still have urges and needs that I would like to have taken care of from time to time. Keeping it casual will be the key though, I already have a life partner.

-I still have the online communities, stories and forums that never existed in my youth to nurture (probably the wrong word here) my homosexual side and assist me along my journey on whichever paths I may come across.

-I feel I have some good new friends here on this site and I appreciate all of your input (hard as some of it was to hear - read?) but it was exactly what I needed. Hugs to all. Wink



I prefer guys that don't come in a box.
Re: Conclusions and Hard Decisions  [message #61708 is a reply to message #61706] Wed, 31 March 2010 06:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ray2x is currently offline  ray2x

Really getting into it
Location: USA
Registered: April 2009
Messages: 429



Just a bit late to reply but enjoy your time here. There's quite a variety of life experiences here.
Take a deep breath. Enjoy your family. Enjoy your swimming. And it's ok to be down at times.



Raymundo
Re: Conclusions and Hard Decisions  [message #61711 is a reply to message #61706] Wed, 31 March 2010 08:00 Go to previous message
timmy

Has no life at all
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13739



This is a good set of conclusions and a wholly valid scenario. It is broadly similar to the conclusion I came to myself some years ago, but that is not why I say it is valid.

It's valid because these are your decisions. It's valid because this works for you.

May I suggest that you take these decisions and start courting your wife again? The worst that can happen is that you still have to use your right hand.

Oh, and if you had decided the reverse? If the reasons had been well thought through, that, too, would be valid.

Expect to revisit this decision several times until your emotions catch up with your intellect. It takes time to agree with yourself.



Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
Previous Topic: Mental health
Next Topic: Those of you who know where to find it
Goto Forum: