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saben
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On fire! |
Registered: May 2003
Messages: 1537
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What is stupid about it?
I'd call it a silly miscommunication, but stupid sounds far too harsh.
Look at this tree. I cannot make it blossom when it suits me nor make it bear fruit before its time [...] No matter what you do, that seed will grow to be a peach tree. You may wish for an apple or an orange, but you will get a peach.
Master Oogway
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13751
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Ok, I say it is stupid because:
a) It is a dog
b) 'Desexed'? So all neutered dogs are gay are they? These people are idiots.
c) It passes the duck test for stupidity
d) Why woudl you discriminate against a dog anyway?
d) Miscommunication my arse! This was ignorance of the highest order
So it is stupid. Period.
Si tacuisses, philosophus mansisses
It is also highly offensive. I was sent this by my cousin who uses a guide dog. Of course he won't count because he is a New Zealander, but he has been discriminated against all his life simply because he can't see. I mean actively discriminated against.
[Updated on: Sun, 25 April 2010 10:31]
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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saben
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On fire! |
Registered: May 2003
Messages: 1537
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You are showing your ignorance of other cultural perspectives here.
For a start in south east asian culture "gay" is translated as "third gender" and is a term that refers to feminine males, Thai lady boys, etc. David in Thailand's stories often refer to this fact. "Gay" as it exists in the west is not a concept that exists at all in South East Asia. There you can be a man, a woman or "gay". You cannot be a gay man, and a gay "top", or a straight acting gay guy would always be considered a "man", rather than "gay".
So given that as a cultural basis a "gay dog" would most easily be conceived as one that is desexed. I'm sure that the staff in question were probably quite curious as to why a desexed dog is a special case that deserves entry to a restaurant, though! No dogs are allowed in a restaurant!
You seem to buy into the article as providing all the relevant facts. But as one of the comments says the "gay" tact is only being used by the newspaper in question because it makes people read. As you read. And be shocked, as you were shocked.
But not one part of the article indicates that it was because the dog was thought to be "gay" that it wasn't allowed in. It wasn't allowed in because it was a dog! And it wasn't understood that it was a guide dog which is the only exception to that rule! Being a gay dog isn't an exception, nor is being a straight dog.
Yes the staff should be properly trained and able to understand the policies of their restaurant. Yes they should be accommodating to blind customers. But there's no indication that there's anything other than a language and cultural barrier.
Look at this tree. I cannot make it blossom when it suits me nor make it bear fruit before its time [...] No matter what you do, that seed will grow to be a peach tree. You may wish for an apple or an orange, but you will get a peach.
Master Oogway
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13751
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I expect you know your nation well enough.
Odd how they totally disregarded the information card they were shown.
Ah wait. I expect they couldn't read it.
I could have sworn you had a policy of making sure your immigrants could actually fit in. And read Australian.
Instead of arguing about how wonderful these imbeciles were, why not look at the positive. The stupid ignorant people have ben fined and re-educated. And their restaurant is now famous worldwide.
And they didn't cook the dog.
This was simple. "Guide Dog" must have sounded like "Gay dog" to the idiot who refused it entry. They made the rest of the desexed stuff up to make the article work.
I think you are just defending your nation like Chauvin defended his emperor.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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saben
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On fire! |
Registered: May 2003
Messages: 1537
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I'm not defending my nation at all. I'm barely one ounce nationalist.
I don't believe in assimilation, I don't believe in cultural or language homogeneity.
That's the whole point of my argument. It was a simple misunderstanding that happens in places of cultural or linguistic diversity.
To make it out to be any more is ignorance. To call another culture's understanding of things "stupid" is Imperial arrogance at its Victorian-era best.
Look at this tree. I cannot make it blossom when it suits me nor make it bear fruit before its time [...] No matter what you do, that seed will grow to be a peach tree. You may wish for an apple or an orange, but you will get a peach.
Master Oogway
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I'd buy Saben's argument that 'guide dog' pronounced in Stryne could sound like ' gay dog'. The rest is hard to swallow. As Timmy said, at least Nudge didn't end up on the menu.
Hugs
N
I dream of boys with big bulges in their trousers,
Never of girls with big bulges in their blouses.
…and look forward to meeting you in Cóito.
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I thought, Nigel, that all 'dogs' were 'gay' but I admit my sample hasn't been carefully chosen.
I agree with Saben's implication that we shouldn't be too quick to find things 'highly offensive' when they might just be mistakes - or worse, our own misreadings of other cultures.
Since it is obvious to me that I've said nothing that could possibly be offensive to a Canadian Journalist (gay or straight & whether he thought me gay or straight) I begin to wonder whether we are looking at things through a pair of glasses that amplify the emotional content.
After all one of the things we want to do is enable those of us that have or had problems with being gay to think and talk about them in a calm and calming environment. And that surely requires us to write civilly to each other.
As Timmy wrote: "Play nice!"
Love,
Anthony
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saben
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On fire! |
Registered: May 2003
Messages: 1537
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For a speaker of a language with no "d" final consonants and where "aɪ" and "eɪ" ("ɑe" and "æɪ" in bogan-English) are non-contrastive or absent. Thai seems to possess both these features
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thai_language
So hearing "guide dog" as "gay dog" has a logical foundation. You agreed with that, Nigel.
But is the rest really that hard to swallow?
The Thai word kathoey, or "ladyboy", is often translated as "gay" in English. Even though kathoey is closer to the English "transsexual". A "kathoey dog" would quite logically be one that is neutered.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kathoey
So hearing "gay dog" and thinking "transsexual dog" is culturally understandable.
Now, if you were a restaurant staff member in a foreign country. And someone asked if they could bring their "transsexual dog" what would you say? Would it make a difference if they handed you a brochure in a language you can't read?
Look at this tree. I cannot make it blossom when it suits me nor make it bear fruit before its time [...] No matter what you do, that seed will grow to be a peach tree. You may wish for an apple or an orange, but you will get a peach.
Master Oogway
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Anthony wrote:
>I thought, Nigel, that all 'dogs' were 'gay' but I admit my sample hasn't been carefully chosen.<
Only the ones that have tried to hump my leg have I considered gay. In matters dog, strangely I prefer the bitches.
Hugs
Nigel
I dream of boys with big bulges in their trousers,
Never of girls with big bulges in their blouses.
…and look forward to meeting you in Cóito.
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In case I was getting muddled I just checked the meaning of trans(s)exual in the Oxford dictionary. It defines it as having the physical characteristics of one sex and the psychological characteristics of the other.
Until then I was having visions of a dog with the DBs cut off and wearing a pink collar.
[DBs = the dog's bollocks, usually as in the expressions 'this new car of mine is the DBs', ie top class with all the best equipment. Jasper Carrott assures us that Americans don't know the word 'bollocks' to the extent that an Englishman living in California had that as his car registration since the word didn't mean anything to officials.]
Hugs
Nigel
I dream of boys with big bulges in their trousers,
Never of girls with big bulges in their blouses.
…and look forward to meeting you in Cóito.
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