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You are here: Home > Forum > A Place of Safety > General Talk > Brody's Scribbles... The Reason We Still Need 'Pride'
icon4.gif Brody's Scribbles... The Reason We Still Need 'Pride'  [message #62670] Mon, 14 June 2010 23:24 Go to next message
Brody Levesque is currently offline  Brody Levesque

Really getting into it
Location: US/Canada
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Messages: 733



By Brody Levesque (Washington DC) June 14 | Normally, when I write for this blog I strive to remain as professional and detached as possible. This is definitely NOT gonna be very detached or remotely professional. I am switching gears & 'hats' as my good friend & blog-mentor 'Timmy' would say from Journalist who happens to be Gay to purely GAY. Ah, that felt pretty good saying that.... let me pause here to stretch & crack my fingers...

First off, I spent all weekend at Washington's Capital Pride & I had a blast! I also managed to sweat off about 20 pounds which is great but at my age is honestly not gonna land me a date that remotely resembles one of those heart-stopping walking adverts for an undergarment outfit. So enough blathering on about wishful thinking eh? I canvassed both the Pride parade Saturday and then the main festival yesterday for my dear friend Kevin Lynch, who is the manager of the HRC store up in DuPont Circle. I handed out the square HRC bumper stickers and a coupon for 10% off. (Okay, so part of my journalistic training tells me that FULL disclosure is warranted here.)

I met so many happy LGBT folk and I have to admit, that being surrounded by the greater LGBTQ community made me feel complete as a human being. The sense of purpose, of who we are as humans, and the mere fact that out on display was the 'normalcy' that we all as LGBT folk strive for in desiring acceptance and full equality. That is precisely why Pride is so crucial. I also loved hearing 'have a Happy Pride' or variant thereof from nearly everybody that walked by me. Then, there were the friendly straight persons that were attending with their Gay friends including one young man I met from the Chicago area, Scott, a graduate student who is working as an intern at the U. S. Treasury Department this summer.

Scott talked with me for about a half hour and was the embodiment of his generation's attitude that human sexuality should NOT have labels. He's 25, and frankly although he is herto, sees no issue with homo. I love that, I really do.

Pride is a political statement as well and this year being an elections year saw all the local politicos out working hard for the 'pink' vote. Of course, here in DC, the Mayor's office is up for grabs as is almost all city council seats, but in fairness, we received a huge boost from that lot when they gave us marriage equality earlier this year so bless them all. Oh, shameless plug here for the great job local anchor for WRC NBC4 News' Wendy Rieger did as emcee of the parade!

Now, yesterday, after getting home I was tired, beat, sweaty, and my feet felt as though they'd increased to water-ski proportions. As I was cropping and fussing with my pride pics, I made the rounds of the blogosphere and landed on the following article from my friend & colleague Bil Browning at The Bilerico Project. I was so arsed about the moron who... well you can read it and then I've provided a link to Bil's original article. [Here]

But what really got my attention was one particular comment by a member of a local PFLAG group that Bil had spoken to out there in the Indianapolis area that I am going to publish as well as it eloquently makes the case for why Pride is needed still.

Mail: A Hater Asks About Pride

By Bil Browning (Indianapolis, Indiana) June 13 | While we get hate mail all the time, this one came in yesterday while I was at the Pride parade. It seemed apropos to overlook the tone, publish it today and ask everyone to answer the larger question it asks: Why do you celebrate pride month?


From: Sam Riddick

IP: 98.19.133.114

Message: If you are so normal, why do you people have Gay Pride Month? I'm a heterosexual and I feel neither proud or ashamed. I certainly don't need a month dedicated to make me feel good about it. The fact you need your bumper stickers, parades, and entire months shows that you really need some reinforcement that you aren't just a bunch of crazy people. Until that crap stops, I will treat all gays like they are mentally diseased.


In case you're interested, Mr. Genius also sent another e-mail yesterday about Chris Crocker that came in before the one above. So how do you handle people like this in your personal lives?


From: Chris Crocker

IP: 98.19.133.114

Message: WTF is going with this website? Are you freaks pro gay or something? Are you the same morons who made fun of Fox News over that Chris Crocker crap? Guess what? The free world made fun of him assholes. God damn, I wish you freaks of nature would go back into the closet. In the good ole days, freaks were ashamed to be freaks. Now, you morons embrace it? If you aren't ashamed to be weirdos, you can never change. Sorry for your chronic bout with insanity. Good luck with it I guess. Cheers.

So, yeah. This guy has to e-mail queer websites under two different names to send insults. What's his motive? What do you think his story is? Closet case? Self hating? Small town bully? Feel free to make up back-story for him in the comments.

Now, here is Annette Gross, from PFLAG's Indianapolis Chapter's fantastic response:


Today Bil Browning spoke to our PFLAG group. We were a mixed group today with straight and gay people attending. So Bil asked us to respond to this person's post.

First off, you can't mess with a PFLAG parent. We love our GLBT children unconditionally. My gay son has done nothing in his life that I am ashamed of. He is a wonderful person and I will stand up for him until the day I fall down and die.

Why is there a Gay Pride parade and festival. Well, I'd like to ask this person if he has ever been discriminated against. As a Jewish person, I have been a victim of discrimination. It's a horrible, demeaning experience. Jews know first-hand what it's like to be excluded. Now it seems that it's fashionable to discriminate against the GLBT community. Many people think that GLBT people won't fight back. But times have changed and they are fighting back. And.....many in the straight community are fighting back with them. In PFLAG, we call them Straight Allies. They know there is injustice in the world and they are right there with their GLBT friends and neighbors.

The reason, as I see it, why there is a Gay Pride Festival, is that this gives the GLBT community a day where they can be themselves and not have to hide who they are. They can hold hands with their gay partner and not feel as if they're doing something wrong. They feel free to express who they are without being judged.

Maybe one day, when GLBT people are no longer discriminated against, a Gay Pride Festival will no longer be needed. Actually, I would love to see these festivals continue - I have an awful lot of fun at them - I get to see people I haven't seen in a year and we can catch up.

I'm sorry you feel the way you do about the GLBT community. It's too bad you're not willing to open up your heart and mind to people who are different from you. Many years ago, my family lived in Naples, Italy. My husband was a Naval officer. We had to learn how to get along in a new community. My husband's commanding officer said to us one day - "We're not better than them, we're just different." Perhaps you can view the GLBT community like that. We are all different and our country is made up of a tapestry of various peoples and cultures. I suggest you try to open your eyes and see the world with a different perspective.

I freakin LOVE this lady folks! Okay, enough dreck & drivel from me, here's some pics from DC's Capital Pride 2010. Enjoy. And to ALL of you celebrating LGBT Pride this month and especially my readers & guests, a very Happy Pride from me, and my crew here at BN&S!

Boyfriends at DC Pride 2010 Photo By Brody Levesque

[Updated on: Mon, 14 June 2010 23:25]

Re: Brody's Scribbles... The Reason We Still Need 'Pride'  [message #62671 is a reply to message #62670] Tue, 15 June 2010 00:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CallMePaul is currently offline  CallMePaul

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Messages: 907



This year will be the first that I have officially stepped out of the closet to the entire community to attend our Pride festival in Boise Idaho. I have volunteered to help set up and man the U.C.C. church Pride Booth and to march in the parade. I am so excited and know that this will be a special day and a milestone in my life. Very Happy



Youth crisis hot-line 866-488-7386, 24 hr (U.S.A.)
There are people who want to help you cope with being you.
Boise Idaho, eh Paul?  [message #62673 is a reply to message #62671] Tue, 15 June 2010 04:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
The Gay Deceiver is currently offline  The Gay Deceiver

Really getting into it
Location: Canada
Registered: December 2003
Messages: 869




I can well understand your taking a while in deciding to go public.

I've spent time in both Butt, Montana and Laramie, Wyoming (and have always wanted to do the same in Boise, but never seemed to get around to it); and as luscious as the men are, and I expect Boise is not a whole lot different, you don't want to be messing a whole lot with their heads.

Still and all, I do hope that you'll enjoy your newly found freedom and have a wonderful day.

Warren C. E. Austin
The Gay Deceiver
Toronto, Canada



"... comme recherché qu'un délice callipygian"
Brody, the photo of the youth ...  [message #62674 is a reply to message #62670] Tue, 15 June 2010 04:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
The Gay Deceiver is currently offline  The Gay Deceiver

Really getting into it
Location: Canada
Registered: December 2003
Messages: 869




... with the HRC sticker plastered to his hip sorta says it all, doesn't it?

Great pic, is it one of yours?

Warren C. E. Austin
The Gay Deceiver
Toronto, Canada



"... comme recherché qu'un délice callipygian"
Re: Boise Idaho, eh Paul?  [message #62675 is a reply to message #62673] Tue, 15 June 2010 04:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
E.J. is currently offline  E.J.

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There are many butts in Montana, but only one Butte.



(\\__/) And if you don't believe The sun will rise
(='.'=) Stand alone and greet The coming night
(")_(") In the last remaining light. (C. Cornell)
icon6.gif Re: Brody, the photo of the youth ...  [message #62677 is a reply to message #62674] Tue, 15 June 2010 05:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Brody Levesque is currently offline  Brody Levesque

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Yup, I'd given him the sticker about a half hour prior to taking the shot. The reason I remembered him was quite frankly because he is a such a good looking kid and so obviously in love with his boyfriend.

They were constantly touching and all I could think about was how honoured I was to have played a bit role in the LGBT Equality Rights movement for the past 17 years that maybe contributed to giving these boys the ability to be openly affectionate with each other in public without scorn or ill feelings.

Warren, I realise that the LGBT Equality movement still has a long way to go, but Jesus, did it ever feel good to see that display and tons of others old and young displaying their love for one another as human beings....

This, this is why Pride means so much to me personally. I LOVE being able to shoot pics like that... Harvey Milk would be so pleased.
Re: Brody's Scribbles... The Reason We Still Need 'Pride'  [message #62678 is a reply to message #62671] Tue, 15 June 2010 06:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
timmy

Has no life at all
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13739



I know how I felt last year. I hope you feel even half of the emotion.



Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
LOL, too right, E.J.® ...  [message #62679 is a reply to message #62675] Tue, 15 June 2010 12:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
The Gay Deceiver is currently offline  The Gay Deceiver

Really getting into it
Location: Canada
Registered: December 2003
Messages: 869




... I must plead "timmy-type" having struck again; that, and my not having run my response through even the most rudimentary of Spell-checkers.

Warren C. E. Austin
The Gay Deceiver
Toronto, Canada

[Updated on: Tue, 15 June 2010 12:59]




"... comme recherché qu'un délice callipygian"
Re: Brody's Scribbles... The Reason We Still Need 'Pride'  [message #62680 is a reply to message #62670] Tue, 15 June 2010 17:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
saben is currently offline  saben

On fire!

Registered: May 2003
Messages: 1537



The sense of purpose, of who we are as humans, and the mere fact that out on display was the 'normalcy' that we all as LGBT folk strive for in desiring acceptance and full equality.


I understand that pride parades still have an important role to play. But to me, it is not a way of displaying normalcy, it's a way of emphasising difference and that difference is okay.

To me the best display of normalcy is having my friends over for a night of gaming, them crashing in the lounge room and then going back into the bedroom with Ryan and fucking him without caring if our friends know if that's what we're doing.

We're teenage nerds, who both happen to be guys, with a bunch of guy friends, but we're in a sexually active relationship, too. And it's no big deal. That to me, is far more normal than a pride parade, but perhaps the type of normal that can only come about from pride parades.



Look at this tree. I cannot make it blossom when it suits me nor make it bear fruit before its time [...] No matter what you do, that seed will grow to be a peach tree. You may wish for an apple or an orange, but you will get a peach.
Master Oogway
Re: Brody's Scribbles... The Reason We Still Need 'Pride'  [message #62681 is a reply to message #62680] Tue, 15 June 2010 17:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
saben is currently offline  saben

On fire!

Registered: May 2003
Messages: 1537



To put it another way,

Your 17 years of activism, Brody, and that of others has resulted in Ryan and I not even feeling a need to attend pride parades.



Look at this tree. I cannot make it blossom when it suits me nor make it bear fruit before its time [...] No matter what you do, that seed will grow to be a peach tree. You may wish for an apple or an orange, but you will get a peach.
Master Oogway
Re: Brody's Scribbles... The Reason We Still Need 'Pride'  [message #62682 is a reply to message #62680] Tue, 15 June 2010 17:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
timmy

Has no life at all
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13739



Saben wrote:
> To me the best display of normalcy is having my friends over for a night of gaming, them crashing in the lounge room and then going back into the bedroom with Ryan and fucking him without caring if our friends know if that's what we're doing.

How odd. Most boys with girlfriends, and most girls with boyfriends tend to behave differently. They do not go back into the bedroom and fuck each other's brains out and not care if their friends know what they are doing.

What you describe is a macho "I'm here, I'm queer, get over it!" attitude. It's rude as hell to your friends and rude as hell to your partner. What you say here means that fucking like bunny rabbits is more important than any form of social nicety.

Perhaps you described it poorly. Perhaps you mean that when you go to your bedroom and your friends sleep in the other room, you are unconcerned that your lovemaking may be a fact that they assume is taking place. I hope that's what you mean. If I were Ryan and had read the original statement I might consider whether the relationship remained interesting.

Normality is not the ability to discard social niceties. Normality is just that - normality.

[Updated on: Tue, 15 June 2010 18:23]




Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
Re: Brody's Scribbles... The Reason We Still Need 'Pride'  [message #62683 is a reply to message #62681] Tue, 15 June 2010 17:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
timmy

Has no life at all
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Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13739



Good.

I'm glad you have no need to attend.

But do not underestimate their purpose and the need for them. Do not underestimate the emotions released for those of us who never even knew we needed to attend one.



Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
Re: Brody's Scribbles... The Reason We Still Need 'Pride'  [message #62684 is a reply to message #62682] Tue, 15 June 2010 19:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
saben is currently offline  saben

On fire!

Registered: May 2003
Messages: 1537



You paraphrased what I said more politely yet I fail to see the distinction between one and the other.



Look at this tree. I cannot make it blossom when it suits me nor make it bear fruit before its time [...] No matter what you do, that seed will grow to be a peach tree. You may wish for an apple or an orange, but you will get a peach.
Master Oogway
Re: Brody's Scribbles... The Reason We Still Need 'Pride'  [message #62685 is a reply to message #62684] Tue, 15 June 2010 20:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
timmy

Has no life at all
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13739



Let me see if I can paint it more clearly. There is a risk that I will cause offence by doing so.

Your description screams that Ryan is your fuck-toy and that either you are or you hope you are his fuck-toy. You are happy to ensure that your friends know that you fuck like rabbits behind a (probably) thin bedroom door. I picture one or the other of you screaming "Fuck me harder!" in part to ensure that the audience, for it is an audience, hears you the other side of the door.

Unless one is purposely at an event where public sex is appropriate I think sex is a private and loving encounter, even if that encounter is a quickie. It's an encounter between two involved and happy people whether romantic love is involved or you are simply friends with benefits. I am discounting a trick turned in a toilet here. It doers not form a part of this explanation.

So the quietly closed bedroom door and the loving and discreet encounter in privacy is by no means the same as fucking each other's brains out.

With no-one in the house then abandon all restraint and swing form the chandelier, tie each other up and whip each other, scream the place down, do what you adore doing, whatever that may be. But with a potential audience, heterosexual or homosexual, use politeness when you make love. I don't want to be jealous, disgusted, or aroused by what is behind your bedroom door.



Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
The joy of Pride...  [message #62686 is a reply to message #62670] Tue, 15 June 2010 20:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
chrisjames147 is currently offline  chrisjames147

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Location: U.S.
Registered: November 2009
Messages: 630



Thank you, Brody...wonderfully written and photographed.

I see from the photos that DC Pride has come a long way from a small gathering at the school off 23rd and P Streets. Do miss seeing all the bodies on the beach there...sigh.

But the memory of standing at Dupont Circle and watching the flow of the crowd go by will never fade. It was a time to see old friends and discover new ones. To buy a round for the bar and drink a toast to some handsome boy on the next stool.

Gay Pride is a day of immersion, of self renewal and a commitment to fellowship that needs to carry throughout the years. It's a chance for the young ones to see that they are not alone with their feelings.

Imagine the poor closeted boy sitting at home watching the Pride Parade on the evening news with his parents in the room. That singular moment on television allows him to see all the gay men out and about celebrating gay life, it ought to give that boy hope.

Pride is a declaration to all who see it. It's our Fourth of July, our Mardi Gras, and once a year we make everyone watch the gay community affirm these feelings.

A lot of good information gets passed around at this event, and the view can be spectacular. Razz Of course we need Pride Day, we always will.



Age appears to be best in four things; old wood best to burn, old wine to drink, old friends to trust, and old authors to read. (Sir Francis Bacon 1561-1626)
Re: Brody's Scribbles... The Reason We Still Need 'Pride'  [message #62687 is a reply to message #62682] Tue, 15 June 2010 20:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RichardG is currently offline  RichardG

Getting started
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This forum seems to be prgressing towards a mono-culturalism where anyone who doesnt follow the Brody/Timmy line on most subjects is castigated.The request to avoid judgement in the forum header seems to be long forgotten. Saben makes it abudently clear that a) his friends had crashed before fucking commenced b) his partner joined in the unconcern. All seems very much what I did at their age with both boys and girls- I cant see what he has done wrong.

I have never been on a pride march/event. I dont have any intention of doing so. A large number of my friends have been and lots haven't.I cant see that it makes those who go "better" people. And would certainly resent the idea that I am worse for not doing so.But thats not to say i shun gay events: I have just come back from my weekly gay and lesbian AA meeting at which I do service and it is a wonderful experience. ( Not least because it is about gay people really helping each other without the slightest hint of sexual intent).

Lets return to love and tolerance of diversity. There is more than one way of being a happy fulfilled and good gay
Richard
Re: Brody's Scribbles... The Reason We Still Need 'Pride'  [message #62688 is a reply to message #62687] Tue, 15 June 2010 20:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
timmy

Has no life at all
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13739



I don't see why you feel the need to preface your relevant and well thought out remark with an attack.



Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
Re: Brody's Scribbles... The Reason We Still Need 'Pride'  [message #62689 is a reply to message #62688] Tue, 15 June 2010 21:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RichardG is currently offline  RichardG

Getting started
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Registered: December 2007
Messages: 12



I was intended to be an observation about the way that I ( and others to whom I have spoken via email) perceive that you and Brody behave towards dissenters and the divergence of that behaviour from the beautifully written introduction to this forum. I amm sorry if you understand disagreement to be an attack- I thought debate was to be welcomed if undertaken politely. My apologies if I was rude.
Re: Brody's Scribbles... The Reason We Still Need 'Pride'  [message #62690 is a reply to message #62689] Tue, 15 June 2010 22:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
timmy

Has no life at all
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13739



Excellent. So now we have an email cabal. And sarcasm.

Rude? No. But you know very well it was an attack. A polite attack, but an attack nonetheless.

Would you like to try running the forum? That isn't an offer. It's a rhetorical question.

Mostly it's pretty easy, but, gosh, I also have opinions. Should I suppress those all the time as well? That question isn't rhetorical.

No-one here gets a free ride. There is a mystery moderator who can take me aside and edit my posts, too.

Now, with regard to your attending a pride event or not, I don't mind if you do or don't. It's unimportant to me whether you find a pride event something to support or deprecate. I don't mind what Shem does with Ryan either. But he expressed what he thinks and I happen to have a diverging opinion from him over it. So I argued my opinion. I used his terminology, and yet used it politely. He and I disagree. That is fine.

What I mind most is irrelevance and politics. Those I criticise carefully. I don't mean that fun must be absent. Silliness is fine, noting the solstice is fine, even traditional, but pointless political stuff is just out of place.

Tolerance?

Do you really want to be tolerated?

Or do you want normality in whatever form that takes?



Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
Re: Brody's Scribbles... The Reason We Still Need 'Pride'  [message #62691 is a reply to message #62685] Tue, 15 June 2010 22:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
saben is currently offline  saben

On fire!

Registered: May 2003
Messages: 1537



I never said "like rabbits" or "each other's brains out". Just that we fuck. That's the term we use. I never said there was screaming involved. Just that we go into the bedroom and fuck.

Maybe it's a cultural/ generation gap in that you wouldn't use the word fuck to describe sex between a loving couple. I do, though.



Look at this tree. I cannot make it blossom when it suits me nor make it bear fruit before its time [...] No matter what you do, that seed will grow to be a peach tree. You may wish for an apple or an orange, but you will get a peach.
Master Oogway
Re: Brody's Scribbles... The Reason We Still Need 'Pride'  [message #62692 is a reply to message #62691] Tue, 15 June 2010 22:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
saben is currently offline  saben

On fire!

Registered: May 2003
Messages: 1537



To clarify some more, it's not as if we make a show of it. We occasionally make jokes about it, but no more than any couple in their teens/ 20s would otherwise to their virgin geeky friends.

That's the point I was trying to make. Our friends know, not first hand- but they know. We don't need to make an effort to hide our relationship, our sex, anything- we don't broadcast it more than any other couple. Well maybe a little more, but that's because we both like to joke and tease and would were either of us female.

But our friends don't care. It's as normal as it can be. We fuck, even when they might, potentially hear or walk in. So they know, and we don't hide it, because it's normal for couples to have sex. Sexuality, with our friends is all but meaningless. In the good way.



Look at this tree. I cannot make it blossom when it suits me nor make it bear fruit before its time [...] No matter what you do, that seed will grow to be a peach tree. You may wish for an apple or an orange, but you will get a peach.
Master Oogway
"Commonality Of Purpose"  [message #62693 is a reply to message #62670] Tue, 15 June 2010 23:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
The Gay Deceiver is currently offline  The Gay Deceiver

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Location: Canada
Registered: December 2003
Messages: 869




That is why a free and just society needs to celebrate "Pride".

The more humankind collectively celebrates diversity in all its' many flavours, colours, fragrances, tongues, faiths and yes, politics, the sooner the World will become a free and safe haven for all.

Festivals ... celebrations if you will ... regardless of what we name them, are all about camaraderie, fellowship, good will and SHARING; with this largely accounting for why I have never felt the urge to actively participate in any Pride held here in Toronto (where I have resided throughout most of my adult life) or my native Montréal, or Vancouver (as near as could be placed, my birth-place); yes, I've been a vigorous supporter through donations of expertise and money; but, never with that of my person. The time for that type of presence and participation in my life, had it existed back then, would have been the 60's or 70's; unfortunately, by the time it had arrived in the mid-80's the majority of those I would have wanted to celebrate such an affair with had either died, or were well on their way to dying, with the last of some 40-odd life-long gay friends (not acquaintances mind you, but real bricks and mortar friends) having passed by 1995 just when things were finally getting interesting.

Politics aside, Pride is all about embracing who we are as individuals, and collectively who we are as a sub-set of an ever increasingly homogeneous culture; a culture that denigrates difference. As much as it pains me to see Canada celebrate Black History Month (we have had none of the societal baggage carried by our bretheren to the south of us on this score), I do understand why as a celebration it is necessary; it providing a sense of cohesion, well-being and an opportunity for Black Canadians to educate themselves (and the rest of us too) about just who they are, and where they have come from and where they just might be going to go in the future; so too with Pride, or Mardi Gras, or Caribana, or Orange Day, or St. Patrick's Day, and any number of hundreds of others (big and small) we joyfully partake each year; it's all about inclusion, and permanence. Besides which who doesn't like a party, even if we can't abide by the host, as long as he's footing the bill, we'll eat, drink and be merry; and maybe, just maybe, somewhere along the way a glimmer of understanding, a small kernel of acceptance, will take root in an otherwise closed mind, and peace and harmony will begin to become a reality.

Warren C. E. Austin
THe Gay Deceiver
Toronto, Canada



"... comme recherché qu'un délice callipygian"
Please oh PLEASE tell me about sex and chandeliers  [message #62694 is a reply to message #62685] Wed, 16 June 2010 01:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CabinBoy is currently offline  CabinBoy

Toe is in the water
Location: USA
Registered: March 2010
Messages: 74




We have a huge chandelier in the dining room that is like the ones in Williamsburg. Underneath it is a very sturdy mahogony table. I would like suggestions on how to use this room in interesting ways.

Last day of school.

Planning for our trek!

Saw the first sea nettle off the end of the dock today.
Boise scandal?  [message #62695 is a reply to message #62675] Wed, 16 June 2010 01:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CabinBoy is currently offline  CabinBoy

Toe is in the water
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Messages: 74




Years and years ago I think there was a huge scandal in Boise when lots of local boys were selling sex to lots of older dudes in offices of power in the city. I do not have time to look this up right now.

Did you live there then?
Re: Brody's Scribbles... The Reason We Still Need 'Pride'  [message #62696 is a reply to message #62692] Wed, 16 June 2010 06:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
timmy

Has no life at all
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13739



Now that has given me a very different and much better view. The extra clarification was important. Thank you.



Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
Re: Brody's Scribbles... The Reason We Still Need 'Pride'  [message #62697 is a reply to message #62690] Wed, 16 June 2010 08:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
RichardG is currently offline  RichardG

Getting started
Location: UK
Registered: December 2007
Messages: 12



I truly admire your work on this forum and believe the forum has the potential to deliver important and significant help to younger guys as they explore their sexuality as well as fun and good debate for us older folk. A lot of my free time is spent helping younger gay men who have addiction issues- nearly always drugs as well as alcohol in the under 30's - but also sex, gambling and debt addictions: the roots of their addiction ,like my dependency on alcohol, are almost invariably in failure to accept their sexuality and to be comfortable in their own skin. So I see the evidence everyday of what can happen when young guys find the their gayness difficult to live with. It is never a five minute fix but I do believe that places like this can have a part to play in helping the process of acceptance.
So the roots of my concern were about how we can welcome and help more young men here and how us older guys must be careful to observe the love and tolerance you rightly ask for in the forum rubric. Apologies again - and there is no cabal.
Tolerance versus normality.? One of my sons is an extemely good chess player: he played for England under 13 when he was 11;when he was 12 he gave it up partly because he was being teased by his peers, partly so he could fulfil his talents in other areas and partly because he found adult chess players ( who he was playing and sometimes beating) fairly abnormal. Last October - seven years later- he joined the chess club at his university and is playing regularly. Most significantly his friends regard this as an quite ok thing to do; not necessarily normal but not worthy of any comment. I think that how I expect others to to regard my homosexuality: there are a lot more important things about me that I would expect them to comment on than my sexual preferences.I am playing a minority sport.. I shouldn't expect universal applause but should get any disapproval either.
But for myself I need to feel normal internally so there is no guilt in my desires or my actions where men are concerned.That process took a while and even with hindsight I am not sure of all the ingredients but is definately there now.( If any one is interested I will happily have a go in a separate post on my road to guilt free gayness) Ironically my current health means I am unlikely to see that fulfilled in a relationship. But that ok too because I have, late in life, learnt the art of acceptance without anger,self-pity or any of the other debilitating emotions.
Re: Brody's Scribbles... The Reason We Still Need 'Pride'  [message #62698 is a reply to message #62681] Wed, 16 June 2010 09:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
NW is currently offline  NW

On fire!
Location: Worcester, England
Registered: January 2005
Messages: 1558



Saben wrote:
> To put it another way,
>
> Your 17 years of activism, Brody, and that of others has resulted in Ryan and I not even feeling a need to attend pride parades.

And *that* is precisely why so many of us have been activists for so long (my first pride was 1981) - so that we'd eventually reach a society where being gay, bisexual, whatever was wholly unremarkable. If I look back to 2005, the first time I'd been on Pride for a decade, I see an entry in my blog which says

""found it most heartening to see the fairly large number of teens that dropped in to the Trafalgar Square rally. The impression I got was that it was just part of what they were doing with a day in Central London ... drop in, browse the information stalls etc, pick up some free condoms & lube, then go off and do other things. From what I saw, a number of them weren't in the least interested in going on - or even seeing - the parade.

I think this is a tremendous approach. And (as others have mentioned) I begin to feel that my activism over the past two or three decades is in a way validated. Although I think I'm probably to old to achieve the sane and balanced approach to things that the more fortunate of teens & young adults have.
"

However, while we're close to that state for many people in some countries, there are still large numbers of all ages who come from backgrounds where they do need the solidarity experience of a large Pride. That's why I continue to support Pride, and in recent years have often volunteered as a steward on London Pride. For me as well, despite thirty years living as an out gay man, there are times that I cannot entirely escape my upbringing. I posted this here some years ago (http://forum.iomfats.org/w-agora/index.php?bn=forumiomfatsorg_placeofsafety&key=1119912873&action=view ), and I think it bears repeating:

For myself:
I'm pretty much at the conventional end of the gay spectrum in many ways. Although I've been fully out for all my working life (and happy to joke about boyfriends at work), I have a pretty conventional job, wear a suit-and-tie at work (501's & Tshirt out of work), am monogamous by nature, totally non-scene ... and my idea of a fun evening is a relaxing meal with close friends.
I'm active on a range of diversity and inclusiveness issues (not limited to gay politics). Yes, I think you could say that *for me* most of the time it works to carry forward the gay cause with dignity.

BUT I acknowledge my debt to those who take a different approach. To the screaming queens of Stonewall - and it was the fairies, flamers and sluts that stood up and fought. To the assorted punks and hustlers, immortalised in the works of (eg) Kenneth Anger and Robert Mapplethorpe, who gave us icons of an identity that was very male, but defiantly not heterosexual.
I would not be able to lead a relatively unmolested life of quiet dignity most of the time without the willingness of these forebears to put just about everything on the line for their right to BE what they felt they WERE.

So every few years I march on Pride - I worked on it for several years in the early 80's. For me it shows my recognition that I owe a great debt of gratitude to other men from all across the spectrum of those who self-identify as gay. It demonstrates that as a gay man I will not only demand that other people respect my own choices, but that I acknowledge, respect, and can work with those whose choices have been very different. It expresses my belief that we - the gay community (whatever that is!) - can and should set an example of acceptance of diversity.

And - sometimes - it's fun!

But everyone is different, and I know that Pride marches aren't to everyone's taste.



"The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral, begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy. ... Returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night devoid of stars." Martin Luther King
Re: Brody's Scribbles... The Reason We Still Need 'Pride'  [message #62699 is a reply to message #62697] Wed, 16 June 2010 09:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
NW is currently offline  NW

On fire!
Location: Worcester, England
Registered: January 2005
Messages: 1558



RichardG wrote:
(snip)
> That process took a while and even with hindsight I am not sure of all the ingredients but is definately there now.( If any one is interested I will happily have a go in a separate post on my road to guilt free gayness)

I'd certainly be interested - I find the different journeys that each of us have taken / are taking are fascinating. And, of course, a useful reminder of the enormous diversity of those people who self-identify as "gay" (or bi, or whatever).



"The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral, begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy. ... Returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night devoid of stars." Martin Luther King
Re: Brody's Scribbles... The Reason We Still Need 'Pride'  [message #62700 is a reply to message #62699] Wed, 16 June 2010 09:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
timmy

Has no life at all
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13739



I agree. Do that thing. Journeys show others how they might choose to help themselves and also what to avoid.



Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
Re: Brody's Scribbles... The Reason We Still Need 'Pride'  [message #62701 is a reply to message #62697] Wed, 16 June 2010 09:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
timmy

Has no life at all
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13739



RichardG wrote:
> So the roots of my concern were about how we can welcome and help more young men here and how us older guys must be careful to observe the love and tolerance you rightly ask for in the forum rubric. Apologies again - and there is no cabal.

I have the same concern. We must treat each person who comes here as an equal. That person can help us in the same manner that we can help him, or her. Many of our visitors have been ladies and girls who have assumed a male persona.

The difficult element is to make folk welcome while also challenging what any of us sees as incorrect. No-one should be immune from challenge provided that challenge is done suitably.

We've digressed widely from the original thread, I fear.



Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
Re: Boise scandal?  [message #62705 is a reply to message #62695] Wed, 16 June 2010 19:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
CallMePaul is currently offline  CallMePaul

Really getting into it
Location: U.S.A.
Registered: April 2007
Messages: 907



Do your google search on 'the boys of Boise' to find out about the account. Wiki probably has as good a synopsis as any. I was eight years old at the time and living in a neighboring state. I guess it turned into a real witch hunt.



Youth crisis hot-line 866-488-7386, 24 hr (U.S.A.)
There are people who want to help you cope with being you.
"The Fall Of '55" ...  [message #62711 is a reply to message #62705] Thu, 17 June 2010 00:32 Go to previous message
The Gay Deceiver is currently offline  The Gay Deceiver

Really getting into it
Location: Canada
Registered: December 2003
Messages: 869




... Seth Randal's 2006 documentary has been released by Frameline Films (UPC 885444141249) and found here:

http://www.fallof55.com/

The Internet Movie Data-base has this to say about it here:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0823174/

By all accounts this was really quite a mess.

Given the story's subject matter, and its' locale, I have to now wonder had Gus van Sant been making, however subtle it may have been, reference to this very subject in the naming his of his seminal 1991 independent cult classic "My Own Private Idaho" {The Criterion Collection, UPC 715515015929), which features River Phoenix and Keanu Reeves.

Warren C. E. Austin
The Gay Deceiver
Toronto, Canada



"... comme recherché qu'un délice callipygian"
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