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Your Freedom website  [message #62859] Mon, 05 July 2010 02:38 Go to next message
saben is currently offline  saben

On fire!

Registered: May 2003
Messages: 1537



http://yourfreedom.hmg.gov.uk/

Now this is the kind of thing I believe we need more of in politics. It makes me wish I was British! I had a good feeling about a Tory/ LibDem coalition striking the right kind of pro-freedom balance and it looks like I was right.

Hopefully something comes out of it- but even if it's just hot air talking about freedom is better than not!



Look at this tree. I cannot make it blossom when it suits me nor make it bear fruit before its time [...] No matter what you do, that seed will grow to be a peach tree. You may wish for an apple or an orange, but you will get a peach.
Master Oogway
Re: Your Freedom website  [message #62862 is a reply to message #62859] Mon, 05 July 2010 10:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
acam is currently offline  acam

On fire!
Location: UK
Registered: July 2007
Messages: 1849



Thanks for the link, Saben.

But there is an awful lot of rubbish on there such as a lot of people wanting to abolish gun laws.

And it is badly moderated: what was asked for was laws to be repealed and a lot of the suggestions are for new laws.

But it can be improved and is a good idea.
Love,
Anthony
Re: Your Freedom website  [message #62864 is a reply to message #62862] Mon, 05 July 2010 11:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
saben is currently offline  saben

On fire!

Registered: May 2003
Messages: 1537



Why is wanting gun laws repealed rubbish, Anthony?

Do you think strict gun laws make victims of crime safer?



Look at this tree. I cannot make it blossom when it suits me nor make it bear fruit before its time [...] No matter what you do, that seed will grow to be a peach tree. You may wish for an apple or an orange, but you will get a peach.
Master Oogway
Re: Your Freedom website  [message #62865 is a reply to message #62862] Mon, 05 July 2010 12:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
timmy

Has no life at all
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13739



Ah, you presuppose that people are intelligent. Of course it has rubbish on it. Of course people donpt understand. So what?

As for the gun laws, they came in as knee jerk reactions to a couple of shootings. Knee jerk legislation is alwaya a bad thing



Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
icon13.gif Re: Your Freedom website: Acam? You've Lost The Plot!  [message #62866 is a reply to message #62865] Mon, 05 July 2010 14:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Brody Levesque is currently offline  Brody Levesque

Really getting into it
Location: US/Canada
Registered: September 2009
Messages: 733



"Deputy Prime Minister Nick Clegg has issued a call to arms against pointless regulation and unnecessary bureaucracy, asking the public how they want the Government to redress the balance between the citizen and the state.
If you wish to make a suggestion or comment please visit..."

This is an approved governmental approach to overhaul & oversight as well as greater transparency & accountability. How is that rubbish?

The coalition government MAY or MAY NOT succeed, BUT at least they're giving it a go via this methodology. [New tech]

I think its refreshing, as a journalist. Tim's correct in his evaluation, but that notwithstanding,. many of my Brit friends like this idea.

So, I ask, Did you carefully listen to the Deputy PM's remarks and then give it [the entire site] a careful read Acam? Or did you just skim thru immediately decide it was rubbish and pronounce it so as you are prone to doing judging from previous issues I've watched you react to?
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Re: Your Freedom website  [message #62880 is a reply to message #62864] Wed, 07 July 2010 08:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
acam is currently offline  acam

On fire!
Location: UK
Registered: July 2007
Messages: 1849



The fewer people have guns, Saben, the fewer people, when they go mad, will be able to kill. Of course if the gun laws aren't enforced it won't work, but I think it does work here and I feel safer. Actually the effect is very small but I certainly feel a lot less safe anywhere in the USA.

And if the burglar has no gun the burgled can't get shot can they?

Like Auden 'I have no gun but I can spit!'
But not at you - for sure.
Love,
Anthony
Re: Your Freedom website  [message #62885 is a reply to message #62880] Wed, 07 July 2010 16:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
saben is currently offline  saben

On fire!

Registered: May 2003
Messages: 1537



I certainly feel a lot less safe anywhere in the USA.

The places in the USA with the highest rates of violent crime (LA, NYC) are the places with the strictest gun laws. Places like New Hampshire with very liberal gun laws have low crime rates even compared to Europe.



If the burglar has no gun the burgled can't get shot can they

Have you read any studies about the outcomes of armed vs unarmed resistance? Or are you just working on intuition?

Burglars still have access to cricket bats, knives, kitchen utensils, etc. An armed burglar can cause serious harm without a gun, so I'm not really comforted by the fact he'll knife me instead of shooting me.

I used to be anti-gun until I started reading some studies. Now I can understand the work groups like the Pink Pistols do.

Almost every study I've read shows no correlation between gun laws and violent crime. And other studies I've read show that armed resistance is less likely to result in harm to a victim of a crime than passive compliance.

Most criminals aren't murderers. And in Australia other than the Port Arthur massacre the largest mass-killing was committed with a can of petrol, anyway. Loonies will always find a way to be loony.



Look at this tree. I cannot make it blossom when it suits me nor make it bear fruit before its time [...] No matter what you do, that seed will grow to be a peach tree. You may wish for an apple or an orange, but you will get a peach.
Master Oogway
Re: Your Freedom website  [message #62886 is a reply to message #62885] Wed, 07 July 2010 21:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
acam is currently offline  acam

On fire!
Location: UK
Registered: July 2007
Messages: 1849



Plainly we read different studies, Saben. I'm quite sure that the death rate from firearms in the UK is very much lower than it is in the USA and there are no other violent crimes where the UK is higher than the USA to compensate.

I think that firearm restrictions reduce not just firearm deaths but also all other kinds of violence.

And you are probably right that victims who defend themselves probably get hurt less than those who don't - but there is very little that one can do in defence against a gun, except hide or flee.
Love,
Anthony
Re: Your Freedom website  [message #62897 is a reply to message #62886] Thu, 08 July 2010 08:20 Go to previous message
saben is currently offline  saben

On fire!

Registered: May 2003
Messages: 1537



There is very little that one can do in defence against a gun, except hide or flee.

That is what I WANT criminals to do, don't you?

And it's disingenuous to say that firearm crime goes down when gun laws are tighter- it's the overall rate of violent crime that is important. I don't care if muggers are using guns or knives. I care about the rate of armed robbery, the rate of manslaughter, the rate of murder, the rate of rape and the rate of assault, etc.

And generally there is little correlation between violent crime and gun laws as evidenced by the increase in rate of violent crime in the UK since the introduction of stricter gun laws.

But I admit it's an emotive issue and I doubt that many people will change their mind over it, whatever the study. Guns are just scary to most people and that's enough.



Look at this tree. I cannot make it blossom when it suits me nor make it bear fruit before its time [...] No matter what you do, that seed will grow to be a peach tree. You may wish for an apple or an orange, but you will get a peach.
Master Oogway
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