A Place of Safety
I expect simple behaviours here. Friendship, and love.
Any advice should be from the perspective of the person asking, not the person giving!
We have had to make new membership moderated to combat the huge number of spammers who register
















You are here: Home > Forum > A Place of Safety > General Talk > Canada...doing well after all these years.
icon7.gif Canada...doing well after all these years.  [message #62832] Fri, 02 July 2010 14:13 Go to next message
chrisjames147 is currently offline  chrisjames147

Really getting into it
Location: U.S.
Registered: November 2009
Messages: 630



Brody's Notes and Scribbles Blog has an interesting little article about Canada celebrating its 143rd birthday with the Queen in attendance. From all the hoopla it seems our northern neighbors like her a lot better than her homeland.

The royal news we get about England, other than the tabloids which decry the royal family (No, Harry is not gay, wishful thinking), calling them a drain on the national purse, royal play actors with little purpose.

I know you English are all into that pomp and circumstance so I guess you plan to keep paying for it even if the economy is bad. Queen and all make for a good tourist attraction and there is all that tradition to uphold.

Canada has a proper view of the monarchy probably because it is distant. I don't think the Irish have the same view, they weren't treated the same way. I think the Americans would side with the Irish since many of them came here to get away from all that royal attention.

Unlike Canada we lost respect for the English crown, although I doubt if the Irish ever had any. I cringe at the word Commonwealth, at least as applied by the English. The American colonies had a good dose of that commonwealth, it lined the pockets of English merchants for decades. Unfortunately the Irish didn't have the same opportunity to remove the English crown as the Americans.

So the point here is that Canada may give a nod to the Queen, but lots of them are French at heart, I don't have to remind anyone of that old annimosity. If you're going to play into royal hands then it's good to keep them at arms length with an ocean in between.

Happy Independence Day America ;-D



Age appears to be best in four things; old wood best to burn, old wine to drink, old friends to trust, and old authors to read. (Sir Francis Bacon 1561-1626)
Re: Canada...doing well after all these years.  [message #62833 is a reply to message #62832] Fri, 02 July 2010 14:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
timmy

Has no life at all
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13739



Most of us like the concept of a Monarchy. It't a powerless figurehead that creates good international relationships.

The problem is that we like Liz, find Phil The Greek to be bizarre, despise Camilla Park Yer Bike, and find Prince Wingnut to be embarrassing. His wife was beautiful. How come he couldn't keep his dick for her and had to go extra mural shagging the horse woman.

Anne is often forgotten and is amazing. Works hard, often quietly, and does an awful lot of stuff. No flies on Anne.

Our monarchs have been figureheads for centuries.

But I wish our former colony well as it celebrates Independence in a couple of days and we have Thanksgiving.



Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
Re: Canada...doing well after all these years.  [message #62835 is a reply to message #62832] Fri, 02 July 2010 22:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Nigel is currently offline  Nigel

On fire!
Location: England
Registered: November 2003
Messages: 1756



Chris, I think you make the point without realising it. In the UK all the anti-monarchy stuff gets a press. Going round saying 'I like the status quo' doesn't. The majority supports the monarchy, if tacitly.

What is often not understood is that the Queen gives her income to the state and in return she gets a comparable pittance of taxpayers' money. She is the one being financially shafted.

I would rather owe my allegiance to the Queen than a President. Just imagine President Bliar, or Brown, Cameron or Clegg. God spare us.

It is a pity the Queen's and the Duke's genes combined produced 2 out of 4 tossers. Result of generations of inbreeding, I suppose.

If we're going to talk about Charles putting it about a bit, we must mention out of fairness that his first wife didn't exactly go into a nunnery. There are still questions over Harry's biological father, particularly in Canada.

Interesting in Canada is that the loyal toast is given equally in English and French, proposed in one language with the reply in the other.

Hugs
Nigel



I dream of boys with big bulges in their trousers,
Never of girls with big bulges in their blouses.

…and look forward to meeting you in Cóito.
Re: Canada...doing well after all these years.  [message #62838 is a reply to message #62835] Sat, 03 July 2010 08:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
acam is currently offline  acam

On fire!
Location: UK
Registered: July 2007
Messages: 1849



I think, Nigel, it might be truer to write 'the majority tolerates the monarchy'. I think it's on the principle of 'least worst'. There is no proposal for something else which isn't obviously worse.

But I am not a monarchist, although I admit that it is better to have a formal lip-service to all the religious flummery than a true believer.

And one of her strengths is that no-one can tell from her public actions what she truly believes - and it doesn't matter.

After all she can't help being head of the church of England - and Charles will be equally helpless when it's his turn.
Love,
Anthony
Re: Canada...doing well after all these years.  [message #62840 is a reply to message #62838] Sat, 03 July 2010 09:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
timmy

Has no life at all
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13739



As Nigel says, anti monarchy comments get the most press.



Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
Re: Canada...doing well after all these years.  [message #62843 is a reply to message #62832] Sat, 03 July 2010 13:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
chrisjames147 is currently offline  chrisjames147

Really getting into it
Location: U.S.
Registered: November 2009
Messages: 630



Thanks to all of you for the insider's look at the monarchy. It leads me to several conclusions.

Genetics has a lot to do with the policies of the ruler, get a bad seed on the throne and everyone suffers. English history is filled with examples of bad kings and queens, some with heads and some without (LOL). It is no wonder that some royals abdicated and went skiing in Switzerland never to return.

Unlike a monarchy where a change of ruler often requires 30 years of patience (or a sharp axe), having a Presidential change only requires a few years wait. In the US it's not genetics but money that elects the leadership. I think if I had been someone who voted for Bush I'd want my money back.

Democracy talks a good game but doesn't deliver, and I have thoughts on that as well. The voting public, and that is barely half the population, is swayed by absurd notions presented on television by the media. The Christian right wing gave us George Bush with their money and their mouths. We now suffer in two wars and a bad economy because their views on abortion became the Holy Grail of politics. Americans voted to put a godly man in the White House and got the devil in Dick Cheney.

Senator Richard Byrd just died at age 92, our Congress has no manditory retirement age but it should. I understand the concept of elders guiding the community of man, but Byrd only taught us how to spend money on self serving projects. Maybe we can balance the budget now. But who needs the wisdom of elders when we have Google? Smile

If this country is based upon one man and one vote then we need to get on with it. There is more concern that the Constitution guarantees us one man and twenty guns, which we generally only use to shoot ourselves in the foot rather than defending the country.

All citizens should be required to vote in elections if they want their taxes refunded. Voting should take place online, and if people don't have a computer they should go to a polling place to use one. Elections should be only the first step, we should be able to force Congress to listen to us on the major issues. I doubt if Robert Byrd would have been able to waste millions of dollars if the American public had emailed him with a big fat NO.

Of course we lost out on a chance to do anything close to bringing the American government into the Twenty-First Century when Al Gore had the election taken away from him. But I have a solutuion to that as well:

I want you English to invade America and install a King. That way we can have another Revolution, hopefully we'll get it right this time. :-/



Age appears to be best in four things; old wood best to burn, old wine to drink, old friends to trust, and old authors to read. (Sir Francis Bacon 1561-1626)
'Nods to' and 'Animosity' aside ...  [message #62845 is a reply to message #62832] Sat, 03 July 2010 17:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
The Gay Deceiver is currently offline  The Gay Deceiver

Really getting into it
Location: Canada
Registered: December 2003
Messages: 869




... Canadians, and in particular Franco-phone Canadien, are a practical people.

The Monarchy works.

That old adage applies: "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."

Plain and simple.

A few pieces of "Canadian" Royal-related trivia; at least one of these being of especial note to Americans:

1) During their Bicentennial celebrations in 1976 (which coincided with her visit to Canada, and in particular the Maritimes) and latterly The Queen's duties as Head Of State to officially open the Montréal Olympic Games (more about that in a moment) it was noted, and considered a slight, by the U. S. Government and officially commented upon at the time extensively in the media, that neither Canada, New Zealand or Australia (and a slew of lesser States) had sent "Official" representatives to Washington during the festivities. The Queen, when asked about this apparent breach of protocol, remarked tersely "But, I AM QUEEN of Canada, of New Zealand and of Australia, and of ...", forever and a day quelling any further comment on the matter. Prime Minister Trudeau was in attendance, as were members of his government, but none in any official capacity.

2) The Royal Visit to the Americas in 1976 marked the last time that the Royal Yacht "Britannia" would again been seen in our waters.

3) The Queen's opening of the Montréal Olympic Games created any number of problems, especially given that her appearance here was at the height of our troubles in Québec, with the then in place War Measures Act not being revoked until 1981 or thereabouts.

Officially, other than her opening the Montréal Games, she had asked that she be considered strictly as a "private" citizen during her visit ostensibly so that she could support her daughter Princess Anne who was then a member of the United Kingdom's Equestrian Team at the 1976 Olympics.

In the main this request was honoured, and her 10-days or so in Montréal and environs passed largely unnoticed in the media excepting for one incident: The Queen's State Dinner at the Queen Elizabeth Hotel in downtown Montréal the second night after her arrival in the city; it would be days later that Canadians would learn of the mammoth breach of protocol, and policy, not to mention it's widespread security implications.

An hour before The Queen was to be seated at the head table, two aircraft were requesting admission to Canadian airspace, and in particular landing rights at Dorval Airport in Montréal; each arriving from different directions; the one flying west from the Atlantic over Newfoundland, the other from the southwest, flying northeast over the American mid-west; both refused to identify who they were, and neither would display an IFF transponder. Canadian fighter jets were scrambled as each entered our airspace and it was only then when the aircraft were visually sighted that the pilot of each British Airways Concorde aircraft descended to below 10,000 feet, dipping its' nose, opening the hatch adjacent to to the flight deck and raising the Royal Standard. The first aircraft was granted privileges at Dorval whereby shortly thereafter Princes' Charles and Edward scrambled down the gangway; with the second diverted to Mirabel and Prince Andrew similarly alighting from the plane; and thus began one of the most alarming Constitutional Crisis in Canadian history. The State Dinner was put on hold, all the while its' delay being played out on National Television, with no explanation being given for the delay; it being only when The Queen, Prince Philip, Prince Charles, Princess Anne, Prince Andrew and Prince Edward were seated at the head table did it become apparent to those present, and an astonished Prime Minister Pierre Elliot Trudeau, and the World at large, why the delay had occurred; but still no explanation was given. For the first time, the entire Royal Family, all it's heirs both apparent and otherwise, were seated at the same table, in the same room, in the same building, in the same city, and the same country (and a foreign one at that, albeit a member of The Commonwealth); this situation being expressly forbidden Constitutionally, excepting within the United Kingdom. This could only have been made possible by The Queen herself, no-one else had the authority, and in her own quiet way she was asserting her Dominion over the people of Canada, and in particular of the Province of Québec at a time when feelings towards the Royals, and in particular The Queen, were at its lowest ebb. An hour after the State dinner Charles, Andrew and Edward were gone.

The Queen is a formidable woman, and statesman; and likely accounts for her widespread appeal, not just within Canada, but throughout the World at large; and lest we forget, this is the same woman who hours after Nelson Mandela was elevated to Prime Minister of South Africa, having been duly elected so, summoned him to Buckingham Palace (contrary to then prevailing policies at Whitehall), and shortly afterward, readmitted The Republic of South Africa to The Commonwealth, an Organization she had personally expelled them from in 1961.

Too, this the same woman who in her capacity as Queen of Australia, dissolved (with no forewarning by Australian authorities, and without their expressed permission) a struggling Parliament in the 1970's, ordering a new election; a Parliament awash in both financial and labour crisis, with no resolution in sight; thus prompting calls for Australia to withdraw from The Commonwealth, and to declare itself a Republic and do away with the Monarchy. It would be more than a year later that Australians came to realize the wisdom of her unilateral action.

To say that The Queen is a functionary, without power, is a misnomer; she has, but seldom wields, considerable authority; more so outside of the British Isles, rather than from within.

4) In Canada the hierarchy of Constitutional authority lies in this order:

The Queen
The Governor-General
The Chief Justice of The Supreme Court of Canada
The Speaker of The Senate
The Speaker of The House of Commons
The Privy Council Of Canada
Parliament
The Prime Minister

This is the framework that constitutes "Dominion" Governance, with Parliament near the bottom of the totem pole, but not without the teeth to govern effectively; although time has proven we are best governed by Minority, not Majority Goverment. The Prime Minister need not ever be elected, being solely the leader of the Party with the greatest number of sitting (elected) Members; although to address either the House of Commons or The Senate he must either have a seat in the House of Commons (ergo be elected), or a seat in The Senate (be appointed).

5) July 1st, née "Dominion Day" is not a celebration of the birth of our Country, but rather our form of Government. Sadly it took only 12 votes (the number of Members actually present in the house that day), to change the name from "Dominion Day" to "Canada Day", with the then feeling being that the change in name would make Canada Day less special and noteworthy, and much less cause for celebration.

6) The birth of our country, as a completely independent, and styled nation, actually occurred April 17th, 1982, when The Queen signed into Law a special document entitled The Constitution Act, 1982 (U.K.), which effectively amended the British North America Act, 1867 (U.K.) forever and a day, and restyled it to become The Canada Act, 1982, (RSC), with sundry amendments therein respecting amongst others The Charter of Rights and Freedoms, and the then little known "Supremacy Clause" which had been quietly percolating away since 1864, and the provisional draft of The British North American Act in Charlottetown, P.E.I., of that year. The Supremacy Clause (according to Section 52 of the Constitution Act, 1982, the Constitution of Canada is the "supreme law of Canada", and any law inconsistent with it is of no force or effect giving Canadian courts the power to strike down legislation and make Law) was at the heart of The Supreme Court of Canada's landmark ruling in favour of Same-sex Marriage Rights in Canada nearly a decade ago.

7) The Queen's signing into Law The Constitution Act, 1982 (U.K.) marked the first time in history that an Act of the British Parliament, was made and enacted not at Westminster but from outside the territorial confines of The United Kingdom, and apparently was so done as a personal favour to our then Prime Minister Pierre Elliot Trudeau. Why April 17th was never declared Constitution Day, or better yet Canada Day, to celebrate this milestone event is unknown. We desperately needed then (and continue to need now) a national holiday in that period and that would have been the ticket. Instead they chose to demean and diminish the important of Dominion Day by renaming it.

Warren C. E. Austin
The Gay Deceiver
Toronto, Canada

[Updated on: Sat, 03 July 2010 23:36]




"... comme recherché qu'un délice callipygian"
The Queen is a royal bargain...  [message #62870 is a reply to message #62845] Tue, 06 July 2010 11:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
chrisjames147 is currently offline  chrisjames147

Really getting into it
Location: U.S.
Registered: November 2009
Messages: 630



I think this article fairly well sums up how well the monarchy survives in England. The cost of maintaining that figurehead is relatively cheap per person...citizen...subject? Are the English people still considered subjects of their Queen?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/eu_britain_royal_costs



Age appears to be best in four things; old wood best to burn, old wine to drink, old friends to trust, and old authors to read. (Sir Francis Bacon 1561-1626)
Re: The Queen is a royal bargain...  [message #62872 is a reply to message #62870] Tue, 06 July 2010 13:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
timmy

Has no life at all
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13739



We are, by definition, subject to her rule, and thus subjects. And she is great value for money.



Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
Re: The Queen is a royal bargain...  [message #62873 is a reply to message #62872] Tue, 06 July 2010 14:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Nigel is currently offline  Nigel

On fire!
Location: England
Registered: November 2003
Messages: 1756



62 pence per year per head of population.

Hugs
Nigel



I dream of boys with big bulges in their trousers,
Never of girls with big bulges in their blouses.

…and look forward to meeting you in Cóito.
Re: The Queen is a royal bargain...  [message #63004 is a reply to message #62870] Thu, 15 July 2010 08:02 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Nigel is currently offline  Nigel

On fire!
Location: England
Registered: November 2003
Messages: 1756



Here's another report.

http://www.lovemoney.com/news/see-the-big-picture/politics-and-finance/what-the-royals-cost-us-5163.aspx?source=1000465

Hugs
N



I dream of boys with big bulges in their trousers,
Never of girls with big bulges in their blouses.

…and look forward to meeting you in Cóito.
Re: The Queen is a royal bargain...  [message #63008 is a reply to message #63004] Thu, 15 July 2010 10:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
acam is currently offline  acam

On fire!
Location: UK
Registered: July 2007
Messages: 1849



It is the most equal societies that are happiest. Disparity in incomes has greatly increased during my lifetime. The effect of food rationing, forcing us to share more equally, greatly improved the diet of the nation and deficiency diseases such as rickets almost disappeared during the war. A decent standard of housing (the Parker-Morris standard for council houses) during the twenty years after the war almost eradicated TB - a disease of poor and overcrowded housing. Nowadays those standards have been abandoned as too high to afford. Even a lot of accommodation built for private sale doesn't reach those standards.

The Royal family by example and precedent supports gross inequalities of income and life-style. If they behaved like the Danish lot and travelled by bicycle I wouldn't oppose them.

As it is, Nigel, I do oppose them and am sorry to disagree with you. They persuade people like you to acquiesce in scandalous inequality and so encourage bankers and large company directors to aspire to obscene incomes.

Nails colours to mast.
Love,
Anthony
Re: The Queen is a royal bargain...  [message #63009 is a reply to message #63008] Thu, 15 July 2010 11:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
timmy

Has no life at all
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13739



acam wrote:
> It is the most equal societies that are happiest.

It is not true because you say it is true.



Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
Re: The Queen is a royal bargain...  [message #63012 is a reply to message #63009] Thu, 15 July 2010 11:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
saben is currently offline  saben

On fire!

Registered: May 2003
Messages: 1537



I would rather live in South Korea than North Korea, even though North Korea is a lot more equal.



Look at this tree. I cannot make it blossom when it suits me nor make it bear fruit before its time [...] No matter what you do, that seed will grow to be a peach tree. You may wish for an apple or an orange, but you will get a peach.
Master Oogway
Re: The Queen is a royal bargain...  [message #63013 is a reply to message #63008] Thu, 15 July 2010 16:42 Go to previous message
Nigel is currently offline  Nigel

On fire!
Location: England
Registered: November 2003
Messages: 1756



Anthony, I do not mind your disagreeing with me in the least. I probably welcome it.

To be flippant I well remember all those smiling faces in the old East Germany (I was there), perhaps even more so those in the Ukraine between the world wars (from archive pictures).

I consider equality neither attainable nor desirable.

Hugs
Nigel



I dream of boys with big bulges in their trousers,
Never of girls with big bulges in their blouses.

…and look forward to meeting you in Cóito.
Previous Topic: Historic satire
Next Topic: Let's Have a Discussion & I'll Open It Up With An Editorial:
Goto Forum: