I expect simple behaviours here. Friendship, and love. Any advice should be from the perspective of the person asking, not the person giving! We have had to make new membership moderated to combat the huge number of spammers who register
Location: US/Canada
Registered: September 2009
Messages: 733
By Brody Levesque (Washington DC) SEPT 23 | A spokesperson for U. S. Senator Saxby Chambliss (R-GA), acknowledged that an Anti-Gay slur, 'All Faggots Must Die,' originated from the Senator's Atlanta offices and that the matter had been turned over to the Senate Sergeant-At-Arms for further investigation.
The slur was spotted on an article posted regarding the Senate's DADT cloture vote on the widely popular LGBT issues website Joe.My.God on Tuesday after the measure failed to pass. Joe Jervis, the site's editor and chief correspondent quickly spotted the slur and then proceeded to publish the IP address of the commentator 'Jimmy,' and asked that his readership sleuth out and research that address, which turned out to be physically located in an office building at One Overton Park, 3625 Cumberland Boulevard in Atlanta, that houses the offices of both U. S. Senators from Georgia.
The other senate office, of Senator Johnny Isakson (R-GA), issued a denial, disavowing any knowledge or involvement within hours of the controversy being made public, propelled by coverage by the Atlanta Constitution-Journal's senior political correspondent and columnist, Jim Galloway, followed by other mainstream media including Atlanta based CNN and Fox News.
Last Night, MSNBC's Keith Olbermann discussed the incident with columnist and activist Dan Savage:
Location: U.S.
Registered: November 2009
Messages: 630
Are we surprised? I think not. As Dan Savage says this Senator's office has been playing the anti-gay game a long time.
Not too many years ago Senator Chambliss was probably wearing a white sheet and attending KKK rallys, wondering where they would find the next black man to lynch.
It's only a small step to see that "All F**gots Must Die" is the evolution of "All N**gers Must Die." Too many southern politicians haven't put that sheet back in the linen closet where it belongs.
And these fools call themselves moral and Christian >
Age appears to be best in four things; old wood best to burn, old wine to drink, old friends to trust, and old authors to read. (Sir Francis Bacon 1561-1626)
Another homophobe is homophobic. Difference is this one is elected.
Look at this tree. I cannot make it blossom when it suits me nor make it bear fruit before its time [...] No matter what you do, that seed will grow to be a peach tree. You may wish for an apple or an orange, but you will get a peach.
Master Oogway
Location: U.S.
Registered: November 2009
Messages: 630
Having spent a good deal of time in the past forty years studying the Native American culture I was not at all suprised at their tolerance of the difference in people who lived in that society.
For instance, although slavery was common among the various tribal groups, those were generally persons taken in combat and forced to serve the new masters. The inter-breeding between Natives and African slaves came later on, but there was little to no resistance over it. It took an act of Congress to do away with laws forbidding inter-racial marriage not too many years ago.
Among the native people, persons who would in this day and age be considered gay were valued. The duality of man was taught by spiritual beliefs and because of this a man who felt transgendered was accepted, even revered. In the creation myths of many tribal and clan groups it was believed that there were gods that possessed this duality of being. Brings a whole new meaning to the words "Gay God" doesn't it?
I don't imagine the Puritans knew any of this. That "pick-your-nose-on-the- Sabbath-and-get-burned-for-it" bunch were the original right wing Christians. These "our God or no God" folks were not known for tolerating much of anything unless it was printed in the Bible. Unfortunately for them the Bible was the wrong book to bring along if they intended to colonize. The Boy Scout manual would have been helpful, a good seed catalog too.
I don't think anyone would blame the English for throwing out their rubbish, but it would have been better for everyone if the Mayflower had sunk on the voyage.
[Updated on: Thu, 23 September 2010 17:55]
Age appears to be best in four things; old wood best to burn, old wine to drink, old friends to trust, and old authors to read. (Sir Francis Bacon 1561-1626)
timmy wrote:
> It seems very strange that the inhabitants of the USA have not noticed this.
But we have noticed it. Who do you think appeared in the video of this post? Inhabitants of the USA, that's who.
timmy wrote:
> We have our puritans, of course we do, but they are marginalised.
You were still a monarchy when the USA was formed, you'll catch up to us someday.
Timmy, your continued insistence that ALL Americans are the same or think the same gets tiresome. Neither the American people nor the American government are perfect, but the same is true of the people and government of the UK.
Location: U.S.
Registered: November 2009
Messages: 630
Honestly JimB...I'd trade all the politicians in Washington for a benevolent monarchy.
Age appears to be best in four things; old wood best to burn, old wine to drink, old friends to trust, and old authors to read. (Sir Francis Bacon 1561-1626)
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13751
Perhaps, if it upsets you so much, you might rub the noses of your elected representatives into the shit that you so obviously believe I am spouting.
We look at you form the outside and see a nation of rednecks, and people who are, at best, risible. There are a few islands of hope, but they are few indeed. Your nation is the bully of the schoolyard and to be feared, but it is also the object of derision. Your once proud nation has lost its way and exports mainly bigotry. Should I continue?
It's up to you if you are a proud US Citizen to make your country great again.
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13751
To be fair, Warren, and I thank you for the note, I do not like ad hominem stuff at all. When it comes to ad timminem I find it awkward because I am both moderator and a poster here. So I think my measured reaction to it was appropriate. I had an email suggesting that I remove the post I was reacting to. I chose not to do so. He makes a point, one I believe to be interesting, but in need of development.
Location: USA
Registered: September 2003
Messages: 327
Interesting statement
> We look at you from the outside and see a nation of rednecks, and people who are, at best, risible.
A narrow view perhaps???
What you see from the outside, i assume, mostly comes through the lense of the news media.
No offense to Brody. I do acknowledge there are good news reporters out there who try to make a difference. Maybe he can give a different perspective.
However, in general, the news media are money-making businesses.The news media are biased toward conflict because conflict draws readers and viewers. Harmony is boring. Television (and, increasingly, newspapers) is biased toward visual depictions of news. Television is nothing without pictures.Legitimate news that has no visual angle is likely to get little attention. Much of what is important in politics--policy--cannot be photographed. Good news is boring (and probably does not photograph well, either). This bias makes the world look like a more dangerous place than it really is. In addition, the mainstream news media never question the structure of the political system. The American way is the only way, politically and socially. In fact, the American way is news. The press spends vast amounts of time in unquestioning coverage of the process of political campaigns (but less so on the process of governance). This bias ensures that alternate points of view about how government might run and what government might do are effectively ignored.
My question to Timmy is...
Would you ever visit the United States? I can assure you people will love you here. The English accent sounds sexy to most Americans.
*forgive me is you have. i'm assuming you haven't*
I recognize the United States government isn't perfect, nor are its citizens for that matter. It is very sad when most Americans turn away from politics and the public sphere. They participate in public affairs less frequently, with less knowledge and enthusiasm than is healthy for democracy to survive. It is the reason we end up with elected politicians like McCain who, as you eloquently expressed, give the impression that America is a nation of rednecks. Anyways, before i get sidetracked here. I will admit that living in the United States makes my opinion bias too. The view from the inside is different from the outside view. Even within the United States, people in the East coast view people in the West coast differently(vice versa).
For these reasons, in my most humble opinion, there is no way you can describe all Americans in one sentence.
P.s I would love to visit England. However, if ALL British people have this view of Americans (isn't generalizing lovely?), then i'm seriously having second thoughts. Seriously!. There are plenty of people in American that have a set of respected values which are quite different than mainstream America. You just don't see them in the news.
I'm sure i'll be missing out. I hear England is a lovely country.
Australia is always on my list ;-D
P.p.s I was being sarcastic. I'll more than likely visit England sometime next year.
[Updated on: Fri, 24 September 2010 02:10]
You don't love someone because they are beautiful, they are beautiful because you love them.
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13751
I have visited the USA many times. Most people, like any host nation are outwardly charming. Many people are genuinely charming.
But the mainstream news media portrays you as a dangerous nation, a nation that is emotionally backward though intellectually similar to pretty much anywhere in the world. Your nation imposes its will by force on the world, and yes, we follow. Perhaps under our current administration we will not be so quick to follow.
The USA is an insular nation. It used to practice total isolationism, knowing it had no need of exports or imports in order to survive. Today it requires both, but the isolationism as an attitude still prevails.
The USA is emotionally retarded with regard to its black peoples. In my youth I remember riots because black children were bussed to different schools from white children, and about much more besides, but I was a kid and I registered things that meant something to me.
Today the USA is emotionally retarded with regard to its LGBT people. It discriminates openly against them.
We are not so much further forward, we are not a shining example, but we are further ahead with simple human rights. The last time we declared war was to protect our own citizens who had been invaded and whose wishes and needs were paramount. It cost us dearly. Other times we have followed the USA blindly in its global policeman role.
I appreciate your sarcasm. But your nation allows the rest of the world to perceive it as childish, bullying, arrogant and discriminatory. One Nation (Equal) Under God, if the god is the god of the white christians, and is my sect of it, not yours, and we'll force that on the rest of the world. That is what we perceive.
It is up to you and those who think like you to change that perception.
Location: U.S.
Registered: November 2009
Messages: 630
I'm afraid that in America it isn't the rednecks we need to fear it's the men of intelligence in corporate suits.
Rednecks wear their desires on the outside, wave a flag and yell loudly that "All F**gots should Die." They are like dog poop on the sidewalk, easily seen and avoided. The only power they have over the rest of us is through their church affiliations and the undue attention they receive in the media.
Far more dangerous are the quiet money mongers who worship the almighty dollar and use it to buy their influence:
The media is used in spreading these messages of hate because they are owned businesses that must make money to survive. You can almost tell what people think by the media outlet they favor.
Independant journalists like Brody have a difficult time sharing their accounts of an event with those of the larger, and more influential (often bought and paid for) outlets. We are in a show and tell phase of media coverage. Video of John McCain denying a recorded truth about what happens to gay military personel under DADT is real news, but the mainstream media didn't show that on the six o'clock news.
America is a corporate creature, democracy is for sale to the higest bidder. It's no wonder that the redneck element has responded with the Tea Party. They are the up front distraction while the American people are being robbed out the back door.
I can only agree with Timmy, America is a dangerous nation. Any nation where an affiliation of politicians and big business exists is a dangerous place. People here are fed up with the way things are being run. It's only a matter of if you believe the alternatives on the table are better or worse.
Age appears to be best in four things; old wood best to burn, old wine to drink, old friends to trust, and old authors to read. (Sir Francis Bacon 1561-1626)
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13751
But US Citizens can make a difference. M chose his citizenship and is a young man who can and will make a difference. We know from his work here that he is an activist where he sees it important to be so. He is as all good citizens should be.
He sees my criticisms and responds to them in strong defence of his chosen nation, and I am sure he sees its warts clearly. And he does his bit to remove the warts. In contrast, Chauvin thought Napoleon could do no wrong.
No nation is perfect. My own sucks in a great many ways. I will not defend the indefensible.
Location: USA
Registered: September 2003
Messages: 327
timmy wrote:
>But the mainstream news media portrays you as a dangerous nation, a nation that is emotionally backward
>The USA is emotionally retarded with regard to its black peoples.
>Today the USA is emotionally retarded with regard to its LGBT people. It discriminates openly against them.
> But your nation allows the rest of the world to perceive it as childish, bullying, arrogant and discriminatory.
Chris wrote
>I'm afraid that in America it isn't the rednecks we need to fear it's the men of intelligence in corporate suits
>The media is used in spreading these messages of hate because they are owned businesses that must make money to survive.
>America is a corporate creature, democracy is for sale to the higest bidder.
>Any nation where an affiliation of politicians and big business exists is a dangerous place.
I think both of you make valid points. I even see those things living in the inside. Unfortunately, it is the price we pay for living in a free society, where free isn't really free. Ideally, individuals living in a free society would live the life they choose to, as long as it didn't hurt anybody else's. The only role of government would be to secure each individual's rights. That is the epiphany of liberty or at least that is what they teach you in school.
See, i'm going through college at this moment. Several of my classes have dealt with the same issues both of you argue for. It makes me wonder.
Did our politicians and corporate America sleep through those chapters while they went to school? ;-D
Looking around some of my classes, i see students sleeping. I hope those are not our future leaders and influencial people that will run America. We are doom! If i were a politician, i would push for a law that would require people to go back to school every ten years. ) Given our political climate, i don't think i'll be very popular.
Another problem, in my opinion, is that the United States is soooooo large. To put things in perspective, England fits inside the state of Georgia with room to spare. Georgia isn't even the largest state. A student friend studying abroad from England once told me cities in the United States are so different. He felt he was going to a different country every time he visited a new city. In England, while there are differences from city to city, most cities wree similar in architecture and way of thinking.
Given the size of the United States, i can only imagine the gargantuan effort require to keep everyone on the same page. Hard to believe, but there are many areas in the United States that are so detached from what is happening in Washington and even worse, what is happening globally. All you have to do is travel outside the big cities to notice this.
How can this happen in the 21st century? A time of technological innovation where information flows faster than ever before through the internet and tv.
Most people get their information through the media. But like Chris said, "The media is used in spreading these messages of hate because they are owned businesses that must make money to survive" The media has changed the population into an easily self-absorbed group in which before people participated more. While democracy works if everyone participates, over the years, the United States has have lower voter turnout than anywhere else in the world. I talked about this in another post. In other words, as long as the industries are making money and politicians are passing laws in support of those industries, they will continue to go unopposed.
One way to promote hard to sell government policies is to appeal to the masses. Usually polls are taken to gauge what the public wants the most. After this is done, in order to get elected, politicians use the polls to write speeches and continue to do whatever they feel is right regardless of what they say in speeches. In other words, they calm the desires of the people and not the needs of society which ironically effectively controls the masses.
Timmy said
>It seems very strange that the inhabitants of the USA have not noticed this.
In reality, most don't. The media machine is a powerful monster. Stronger than ever. They is no longer competition and opposing views. They keep pounding out PRs about whatever they want us to think we want. It doesn't reflect what we need.
In conclusion, if everyone in America kept themselves informed, then more than likely, we would have a government that would secure each individual's rights. We wouldn't have people like McCain who has been caught in lies so many times (e.g DADT). Why is he still in office? In the end, the voices that try to make a difference in Washington, sadly, go unnoticed by the masses.
"One person can be extremely effective, but this effectiveness is usually proportional to the number of people influenced by that person. When half of the population can be of one mind on any given course of action, almost anything is possible." Tom Rushing
[Updated on: Fri, 24 September 2010 17:02]
You don't love someone because they are beautiful, they are beautiful because you love them.
Location: Canada
Registered: December 2003
Messages: 869
Whereas you may be able to place The United Kingdom inside of the whole of The State of Texas, you could as a corollary, place the whole of Texas inside The Province of Ontario and still have room to spare; and the half of it is that Ontario is not Canada's Larges province or territory, simply it's most populous and prosperous.
True equality and therein the liberty to express one's chosen beliefs, and live individual lives as desired, regardless of what those beliefs or desires may be, is, and should well be so, the measure of a fair and just society. Regretfully so, America is far from being either fair or just; neither is Canada; but, we have had a 40-year head start on our brethren south of the 49th parallel, and I would have thought that somewhere along that journey, they might have sit up and taken notice of that fact; instead they simply treat Canada and its' citizenry as also-rans. We don't much like that attitude any more than the rest of The World does; we're simply politer in response is all.
Warren C. E. Austin
The Gay Deceiver
Toronto, Canada
Location: Canada
Registered: December 2003
Messages: 869
... by all nations of the first peoples in North and South America. Interestingly that word in "Dinéh" (in translation regardless of the tribal dialect, meaning simply "The People"), which may be why in 1905 The First Nations Tribal Council in British North America, settled on that word referencing all First Peoples of the second world, when drafting their agreement with the then Dominion of Canada for the ceding of some 2,800,000 or more square miles (not hectares mind you, miles) of tribal lands (collectively known today as The Hudson's Bay Land Tract) in return for freedom from let and hindrance of all movement across any territory boundary, universal access to education, medical care, and relief from all costs therein associated, and freedom and relief from all manner and level of taxation IN PERPETUITY. The Government of Canada, being the greedy little buggers that they were back then, couldn't wait to sign on the dotted line. From this land-tract was carved the present-day Provinces of Alberta, Saskatchewan, much of Manitoba, Northern Ontario and Quebec, The Northwest Territories (recently further subdivided into three new territories) and The Yukon Territory. Mistakes were made by governments of their day respecting just what constituted universal access and which services they would apply to; but, in the end they got it right with the closing in the early 1970's of enforced Tribal schools to which the brightest Dinéh had been shipped for decades after being forcibly removed from their families and their homes, and the introduction of Medicare in the mid 1960's.
This policy has not been without its' perils; but, in addition to laying the foundation for our nationwide Medicare, and the return of good and sufficient education provided to the Dinéh within their own communities, and in their native dialects, our experience dealing with these treaty obligations laid the groundwork for our early embracing Multiculturalism and its' attendant diversity in all of it's glorious flavours; and, frankly 40-years later on we are a much stronger, more cohesive society, and better for it.
Sadly, it took a man who once had had a dream, and his eventual murder, and that of another man coming late to power who had earnestly listened to him, to fulfill upon that dream; and, more sadly still that that dream was realized not in the country where that dream was first nurtured and spoken about, but situated on the north half of that self-same continent.
Warren C. E. Austin
The Gay Deceiver
Toronto, Canada
Location: Canada
Registered: December 2003
Messages: 869
... in Corpus Christi; those Texans I had chance encounters with might well have lived up to my expectations of "eveything being bigger in Texas"; they certainly being vocal enough in their lovemaking. Never before, or since, have I known a group of men who could rattle the walls and shake the headboards and bed-posts as they certainly did, and letting everyone on the next ranch (five section lines away) share in their glory at one and the same time whilst doing it; and yes before someone asks, LOL, you'd have the damnedest time trying to get them to take boots and hat off in the process.
Warren C. E. Austin
The Gay Deceiver
Toronto, Canada
Location: USA
Registered: October 2005
Messages: 25
I think most of us do recognize it Timmy. Unfortunately it still seems to be the $$$'s that get people elected, not their stance on the issues. This is NOT what the founder of the the Christian church stood for and as a Christian I continue to be appalled and outraged. It would seem that most of his followers have not yet figured out exactly what it was he did represent. Why is the concept of love so difficult for some people to figure out? I know it might seem less than loving on my part, but I hope they rot in the hell that they are so rigorously attempting to avoid by condemning the rest of us to!
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Registered: September 2010
Messages: 127
I think it is important to get priorities right in judging others, whether they be by nationality or individual attributes. That is why saunas have darkened orgy rooms, isn't it?
Australia is on my list, too...to escape from it. But M, if you look like your avatar photo I'll stay, and await your visit. ::-)
(That's an example of Aussie humour, such as it is.) ;-D
DesDownunder
Call me naive if you want, but life without trust in the goodness of others would be intolerable.
Religious indoctrination: It gets better, without it.
timmy wrote:
> Should I continue?
No, please don't, you've made your opinion very clear. It is also clear that you assume that I'm doing nothing to make my country and government better.
My Mother used to say, “If you don't have anything good to say, then don't say anything.” and I think this is a good time to follow that advice.
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13751
That post was not an asset here. We have recently had a few ructions over the types of behaviour that are welcome on this forum and the types that are not. That is not. Now I am reminding you that I am attempting the herculean task of cleaning out the Augean Stables. You might wish to reflect on the fact that, should you continue this style of post you will be making the decision to leave the forum for good.
I will simply make the necessary technical changes to enforce your inability to change your mind.
You insult me and all US citizens and then threaten me with expulsion when I choose not to fight back. Goodbye and good luck to you Timmy and to APOS in your future efforts to help gay teens and adults.
Location: USA
Registered: April 2009
Messages: 429
Jumping in late as I usually do, America is crumbling. Its infrastructure is old and aged. But the conservative agenda does nothing to address this issue. It's not news worthy to rant about the floods hitting Wisconsin at this time. Better to rant about gays and Mexicans and health care and Muslims and middle names.
My suggestion is boring as hell but Americans need to focus on rebuilding the roads, highways, bridges, buildings, raillines, airport runways, and myriad other infrastructures (did I mention natural gas lines?), not to belittle the struggles of GLT folks.
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Georgia Senator's Office Admits Posting Gay Slur 
Re: Georgia Senator's Office Admits Posting Gay Slur 
The original American culture was more tolerant. 
Re: We are living in the 21st century 
Re: Are you inferring, LOL, that "size really does matter"? 
