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saben
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On fire! |
Registered: May 2003
Messages: 1537
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I was remembering today the study on the % of the population that's gay and thinking about the FCKH8 campaign and the discussion I was having with Brody.
And I was thinking why do we feel a need to somehow justify or legitimise our homosexuality?
For example there seems to be this pressing desire for large numbers of people to be gay. Whenever the Kinsey 10% is questioned we seem to get all up in arms and offended "oh it was a bad study" "oh people just aren't admitting it". Perhaps those comments are true. Or maybe our numbers are a lot smaller than we'd like to think. Perhaps only 1% or less of people are gay!
But even if that is the case- who the fuck cares? We shouldn't be granted the right to love, fuck and marry just because we're a sizable minority, we should be granted rights because it is right! Democracy (especially liberal democracy) isn't meant to be about majority rule. It's meant to be about individuals being given freedom with the ballot box being a way of holding government accountable. Government isn't meant to enact the wishes of the people, though, people are meant to enact their own wishes and protest against government when it oversteps its bounds. Majority rule should not be our god and we should not be ashamed of being a minority. Being gay is victimless and even if there was only ONE gay couple in the world they should be granted equal rights.
Another point is the whole "it's natural/ biological" argument. Again I'm not questioning whether it's a biological thing or not. The jury's still out. Yet most gay people are SOOO reluctant to admit any nurture or (god forbid) choice factor playing a role in sexuality. I honestly don't know why I'm gay. I don't know what balance of environmental/ biological factors makes me like cock. I also know that for me there were some conscious "choices"- not being interested in cock- that came unbeckoned- but I did actively think about guys- I did jack off over guys and eventually I decided to use the title "gay" for myself, even when I wasn't entirely sure. Maybe there are environmental and "choice" elements.
Who the fuck cares? People make choices in life all the time- often choices we think are immoral. I don't like liars but I'm not trying to ban lying. And fornicators are seen as highly immoral by Christians- but there isn't a strong crusade going on against premarital sex like there is against homosexuality.
Who you marry and how you want to make your marriage special should be your business and who I marry and how I make my marriage special should be mine.
I don't feel I should have to justify being gay. Maybe gays are a sizeable minority, maybe it is purely biological. But that shouldn't fucking matter. Even if I was the only gay guy in the world and it was purely a choice I made who the fuck should care? Sex is my business- and relationships are only the governments business so long as they give benefits to couples and families- everyone should be entitled to the same crap from government.
I'm not going to try and justify my sexuality by making it sound mainstream or biological. The only argument I should need is that it's wrong for anyone to make laws banning actions that don't harm others. My love life and sex life is my business, no-one gets hurt (unless they know the safe word first) so gtfo.
[Just felt like having a rant]
Look at this tree. I cannot make it blossom when it suits me nor make it bear fruit before its time [...] No matter what you do, that seed will grow to be a peach tree. You may wish for an apple or an orange, but you will get a peach.
Master Oogway
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saben
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On fire! |
Registered: May 2003
Messages: 1537
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It's not just a gay issue. It's clothing. It's religion. It's diet. It's hobbies. None of that is anyone else's business.
None of that should be political issue. And those ARE all choices.
I hate authoritarianism.
Look at this tree. I cannot make it blossom when it suits me nor make it bear fruit before its time [...] No matter what you do, that seed will grow to be a peach tree. You may wish for an apple or an orange, but you will get a peach.
Master Oogway
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Precisely the point.(Well add an 's' to the word point)
Now, if we could just get all of the hyper/ultra religious types to recognise Saben's feelings as legit and quite human, not to mention applicable universally as human rights, we'd prolly have a much more pleasant world to live in.
~ Brody
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DesDownunder
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Likes it here |
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Registered: September 2010
Messages: 127
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I'm certainly inclined to agree, but I have to add that if you remove the religious influence with its incessant, if not insane and unnecessary morality of sex being attached to sin, then you would find, I believe, that the majority of the population, both male and female would be quite happy to be stimulated by the sight of an erect male appendage, regardless of their sexuality.
Religions play, (some would say, prey) on this image by associating our natural inquisitiveness about life with a sense of guilt for the pleasure of sex. They proclaim Sex as sin. But sex is the harbinger of life. It follows therefore that if sex is a sin, then our lives, our individual lives are imperfect and we are all in need of redemption, which the religion just happens to be able to offer, usually in the next life. Prices as marked with some variations.
Do away with this irrational view of life's greatest pleasure and we go far to recognising sex as honouring the Love in our lives, and sexuality no longer becomes a subject of concern, or a tool of the religion to coerce and maintain belief.
In this view, division of sexual attractions becomes obsolete as anyone can be who they are at any time, without labelling themselves or others.
DesDownunder
Call me naive if you want, but life without trust in the goodness of others would be intolerable.
Religious indoctrination: It gets better, without it.
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Fingolfin
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Likes it here |
Location: Slovakia
Registered: August 2008
Messages: 265
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It has been quite some time since I last posted here, but you made me do that (thank you  )
I have to agree with you, since I do not endorse anything like the Ten Commandments... for me, there is only one rule to follow: do whatever you want, but your freedom of choice and deeds ends where the freedom of choice and deeds of another person begins... So, if I do not hurt anybody with my sexuality, why should they be bothered?
To paraphrase one author publishing on Iomfats:
I´m gay, you´re straight. You hate me for being gay. Take another point of view: me being gay means that more cute chicks are left there for you. One runner-up for their interest less. Is it an interesting point of view?
Marek
It is better to switch on a small light than to curse the darkness.
- Vincent Šikula, Slovak writer
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13751
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The reason I wish to continue to justify myself is not because I feel a personal need to.
I am engaged at present with shooting bigots, religious bigots, down. In order to do that I need an arsenal of weapons hat is greater than simply "I am what I am and I like it."
Instead I have to present unassailable arguments that show that they are the ranting fools. To do that I have to show that my homosexuality is, to the best of my knowledge, normal, natural and a facet of human normality that they choose to rail at.
As Des syas, remove the religious taboo crap and we just get good old fashioned fun sex. But that argument does not publicly terminate a bigot's argument.
But do pop over to http://gayrights.change.org/blog/view/gay_student_teacher_fired_for_saying_he_wanted_to_marry_a_man#comment_form and have a go with that. I'm happy to be proven wrong.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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saben
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On fire! |
Registered: May 2003
Messages: 1537
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I'm not sure that any argument will change those douchebags' minds, timmy.
It doesn't matter if homosexuality is as natural as left-handedness AND more common. They- for whatever reason are haters. Probably because they don't have many gay friends and probably because they never studied philosophy so they can't reason their way through an argument.
Even in response to that particular topic, though I'd say there's nothing age inappropriate about discussing the non-sexual side of relationships- even same-sex relationships. I could understand parents being worried if the student-teacher said "I like to stick it in my boyfriend's pooper because it feels better". So to the bigots- get the fuck over it. I'm not going to bother arguing with them- they are belligerent and WRONG.
Look at this tree. I cannot make it blossom when it suits me nor make it bear fruit before its time [...] No matter what you do, that seed will grow to be a peach tree. You may wish for an apple or an orange, but you will get a peach.
Master Oogway
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13751
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I know they are. And yet someone must argue against them or they will take over again.
[Updated on: Wed, 20 October 2010 07:41]
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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It is human nature to fear and then hate that which we don't understand. Biology brings it out of us, that caveman instinct to protect yourself from a situation unknown. Fight or flight, if you will.
Those that don't know us, fear and learn to hate us. Those that don't know themselves, fear and worry over that which others see. If one doesn't know oneself and doesn't understand the differences in others, well, I think we all get the picture. Misunderstanding, fear and hate, form the basis for a very nasty self repeating circle. A cycle that sadly builds and reinforces itself.
Religion, philosophy, politics, art, these things are all attempts (and incomplete ones at that) to understand ourselves and each other. They are ways we define what is acceptable and what is alien, what is Other. The cycle comes into play here, too.
So, where does that leave all of us? Those struggling to be ourselves and make sure that those that don't understand us don't revert to the caveman response, what are we to do? I don't have a hard and fast answer. It will likely take a far wiser man than me to see into that shadowy place and separte the grays so we understand more. But, as I see it, we do have some common sense things we can do, especially if we plan to live out loud, to make those that don't get "us" to see we aren't so different from "them" (to quote Pink Floyd).
First, be true to yourself. Not just in the way you present yourself in gay society, but in your life in general. Doesn't mean you have to go to extremes. Be you. If someone else doesn't get it, well....
That's part two, be a voice to educate. Most of "them" don't know "us" because they are either insulated from us or are afraid we'll try to convert them, pervert them or in some way try to make them change. Which we can't do; changing minds comes from within, not through force.
If I had to think about it, maybe part three should be something we've already been doing since Stonewall. Organizing and making our presence known as a community. Not as a minority with questionable morals, strange sub-cultural references or deviant practices (as far as "they" are concerned. I think we need to fight for the equality they take for granted but assume doesn't affect us. But, we are all human. So, we should enforce and claim that.
I don't know if there are other steps. Chances are I'm missing several steps. I guess it comes down to stand up for yourself and stand up for each other if you just want to stand as equals. We aren't asking for anything more than what "they" claim as their own. But we will not be satisfied with the less we are stuck with now.
So, what do we think? Answers? Plans? Suggestions? We need to figure it out with each other, my brothers. Because, otherwise, the cycle will only continue, and that caveman will keep poking us back into the shadows.
Don't know about you, but I like being able to enjoy the light.
It's not the wolf you see you should fear, but all the ones he howls with. Don't be afraid of the song, but don't piss off the choir.
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Re: Why do we need to justify ourselves? 
Looking without, looking within 
