I expect simple behaviours here. Friendship, and love. Any advice should be from the perspective of the person asking, not the person giving! We have had to make new membership moderated to combat the huge number of spammers who register
Location: US/Canada
Registered: September 2009
Messages: 733
Special To IOMFATS
By Brody Levesque
WASHINGTON- In the 30 plus years I have been a reporter I need to candidly admit that there sometimes exists a need for those of us in the press corps to use pharmaceutics to keep awake in Congressional hearings.
Now that the tea-party has come to Washington however, their *ahem* civic participation in the business of governing definitely will keep even the most jaded reporter awake:
I wonder if Senator Paul's desire to self-direct his choices unfettered by government control will also extend to his view on allowing men and women to choose with which sex they wish to be partnered in a loving relationship. Hmmmm, probably when I win the Tour-de-France, or pigs fly, whichever comes first.
Cycling is the one sport where a guy can shave his legs, wear spandex and bright colors, and be accepted.
Look at this tree. I cannot make it blossom when it suits me nor make it bear fruit before its time [...] No matter what you do, that seed will grow to be a peach tree. You may wish for an apple or an orange, but you will get a peach.
Master Oogway
Scott, nice partisanism right there. If you actually understood what libertarians in the Tea Party like Rand Paul believe you wouldn't be making comments like that.
Here's what his father Ron Paul says (they share political views on most things, but Rand is more moderate, I think, in line with his ambition to higher positions. He still needs to ensure he doesn't piss off the Republican heartland TOO much): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGaBAb_oS84&feature=related
The libertarian position is that marriage should be a social rather than a legal convention and should therefore be governed by contract, not legislation. Gay people should be free to contract like heterosexuals. Private organisations (including churches) shouldn't be forced to recognise a gay marriage contract, however, nor should they be forced to recognise de facto relationships, relationships between "sinners", etc.
I'd put him in the White House if I had the power. He's amazing.
Look at this tree. I cannot make it blossom when it suits me nor make it bear fruit before its time [...] No matter what you do, that seed will grow to be a peach tree. You may wish for an apple or an orange, but you will get a peach.
Master Oogway
Look at this tree. I cannot make it blossom when it suits me nor make it bear fruit before its time [...] No matter what you do, that seed will grow to be a peach tree. You may wish for an apple or an orange, but you will get a peach.
Master Oogway
Location: US/Canada
Registered: September 2009
Messages: 733
Shem, you absolutely have no clue what these Tea-Party types are like.
Maybe the view from Melbourne is tinted through rose-coloured glasses but I can assure you that they are no friends of the LGBTQ community, they oppose a woman's right to have control over her body, and they in many respects are racist and elitist.
They also are NO friends of the environment either nor are they sympathetic to the plight of the middle or lower classes especially the working poor in the U. S. They bitch about job loss yet they kow-tow to their GOP corporate masters or even in Paul's case, the upper class and very wealthy which I might add, so is he.
What Sen. Paul did in that hearing was ludicrous, patronising, and shows just how ignorant he is of the legislative history of the great toilet debacle he was crying about.
They oppose same-sex marriage, LGBTQ adoption, Transgender rights, and I can tell you from personal experience that they lack a grasp of the basic knowledge of the actual machinations of the American government.
Keep in mind Shem, you live under the rule of a parliamentarian system of government which is an apples & oranges difference both politically as well as practically.
I was in that hearing and along with a MAJORITY of the persons present cringed at that public display of high school antics, misinformation, and callous disrespect not only for the Obama Administration official testifying but his fellow Senators.
Before you take the high road with these types, you really need to get better versed in the reality of their politics, actually, make that the U. S. political reality.
Oh, and I will be snide here. Yeah, after 30 plus years of reporting on American politics along with the last 15 years here in DC doing so spending my time at either end of the avenue, I do know what I speak of Shem so take care that you don't underestimate my expertise.
So [Edited to remove petulant word that has no pleace here. timmy] with your condescending "I know better than you because I live in America" bullshit. Australia isn't exactly the bastion of gay pride- didn't you see Peter Madden and the CDP trying to argue against the Mardi Gras?
Homophobia is rampant here too, buddy. Just because I don't agree with your socialist agenda that doesn't mean that I'm somehow ignorant.
The Tea Party movement is broad-based. It started off as a libertarian groundswell but was co-opted by neo-cons like Sarah Palin. Someone being part of the Tea Party movement only says one thing about them: That they support lower taxes. Beyond that it says nothing- there are libertarians, neo-cons and establishment Republicans who wear Tea Party colours now, you need to actually use your brain to determine which are which. Politics actually has more than "red" and "blue" and comes in all shades and all colours. I guess 30 years of experience in reporting has made you blind to that fact. You probably only think there are two forms of media: Fox and CNN, too.
Nonetheless Senator Paul is amazing.
Abortion isn't the clear cut issue that pro-lifers OR pro-choicers want it to be. The debate surrounding abortion is underpinned by the debate around when life begins. And I don't think many people can answer- the science on life is still shady. Would you support an abortion 1 hour before birth? What about 1 day? 1 week? 1 month? 3 months? If you actually have the capacity to THINK about the issue you should understand that it's not as simple as it being a woman's choice in every situation always (unless you believe infanticide should be legal, too...)
Racism? Well I agree with Rand Paul on the Civil Rights Act- section 2 was questionable. Tom McFeely (owner of the Peel- the gay club in Melbourne that wanted to ban women and straight guys) would probably agree with me, and Rand Paul. It's not racist to believe in property rights. Just like it's not sexist to believe in all-female gyms or gender segregated public toilets.
"..they lack a grasp of the basic knowledge of the actual machinations of the American government."
They, and I, believe in a different role for government. America is BROKE. 43c of every dollar spent is borrowed money. The country has two options: spend less or tax more. Taxing more will only HURT the middle class and working poor.
You can keep SAYING that they believe certain things about gay marriage, but I linked what Libertarian Republicans like Rand Paul, Ron Paul and Gary Johnson have ACTUALLY said. I'm quoting, not just extrapolating from my own biases. Who's the reporter again?
[Updated on: Sun, 13 March 2011 10:49] by Moderator
Look at this tree. I cannot make it blossom when it suits me nor make it bear fruit before its time [...] No matter what you do, that seed will grow to be a peach tree. You may wish for an apple or an orange, but you will get a peach.
Master Oogway
Location: US/Canada
Registered: September 2009
Messages: 733
Hmm, I actually managed to state the case without being profane for once.
Anyway, Shem, you tote a party line that is fringe, and increasingly hardly credible. One of your apparent Tea Party heroes blundered in a speech yesterday screwing up her facts about American history which she later had to correct.
Oh and my being a socialist? Nope, not gonna accept that Shem. You're not even close. Outside of LGBTQ Equality Rights, I don't ascribe to any party's doctrine due to my being journalist and seeing first hand just how much damage any of that lot can inflict.
Your claims that I am just a Fox or CNN type? *snort* Well Mr. 26 year old man of the world and obviously old wise one.... You have zero credibility so I'm not very much concerned with your petulant proclamation.
After giving your response some consideration, I have decided that it doesn't merit a reply from me as you went straight into the typical Reich-Wing/Libertarian attack mode that is normal when dealing with the press corps.
We'll report on what you folks say...to a point, but as your politics are fringe and in your case separated by entire ocean, (literally) not to mention complete lack of personal knowledge which you've shown, I'll leave off.
Oh and Shem? The next time you make silly comments, reflect on the fact there is a massive gap in what you can claim due to that ocean of separation. If you truly wanted to, get some press credentials, and come earn a living reporting the facts, not the Tea-Party or some other party line.
Better yet, why don't you spend some time in the U. S. and see first hand the reality, not just what you filter through media reports tailored to your political beliefs?
Which Tea Party hero? I've only mentioned Rand Paul, Ron Paul and Gary Johnson. So which of those three is a "she"?
You don't need to be a decrepit old journalist to have a basic grasp of philosophy, logic, reason or consistency.
Your post was an attack on me, so I bit back.
I never said that I agree with the entirety of the Tea Party movement. It's been co-opted by a lot of actual conservatives. But Rand Paul is not one. He might individually have differing beliefs but unlike most establishment politicians (right OR left-wing) he doesn't seem to believe in forcing his beliefs on others.
I believe in freedom for all. Just not freedom in things I agree with.
Look at this tree. I cannot make it blossom when it suits me nor make it bear fruit before its time [...] No matter what you do, that seed will grow to be a peach tree. You may wish for an apple or an orange, but you will get a peach.
Master Oogway
PS: If you are only partisan on GLBT issues why the original post?
Regulation of "energy efficiency" is hardly a GLBT issue.
Similarly your diatribe about "they bitch about job loss yet they kow-tow to their GOP corporate masters or even in Paul's case, the upper class and very wealthy which I might add, so is he." has nothing to do with GLBT rights.
You're partisan. You're bright blue. Whatever you say about journalistic independence. And you're sold on the argument that if you're gay you HAVE to be blue. Log Cabin Republicans might as well not exist. Outright Libertarians? Well who cares about them... they aren't part of the two party machine.
Forget the fact that there are sound small-government arguments in favour of same-sex rights. We want our rights handed down to us from above from our almighty, all powerful benevolent government overlords.
It makes me sick when queers see liberty both starting and stopping at gay rights.
Look at this tree. I cannot make it blossom when it suits me nor make it bear fruit before its time [...] No matter what you do, that seed will grow to be a peach tree. You may wish for an apple or an orange, but you will get a peach.
Master Oogway
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13751
I wonder if we are considering the relative merits of Lenin, Stalin, Kruschev, here, or whether Rudolph Hess was a great guy because he flew to England to try to do whatever he tried to do, and it was just Adolf and his other cronies who got it wrong?
I find I dislike crypto-fascists as a global brand. I expect there are very pleasant ones, even ones you could take home to mother, but I do not like them at all.
So I do not idolise anyone who aligns him or herself with a majority who are crypto-fascists. I do not support them. And I will also challenge those who choose to offer them support.
I acknowledge that Adolf Hitler was a genius. Alongside that I state firmly that he was evil. I do not support him because (even though) he was a genius. I vilify him because he was evil. But I can state clearly my opinion that he was a genius without that statement idolising him.
I have no understanding of US politics save for the simple aspect that their right wing is far too extreme for me, a lifelong UK Conservative Party voter. The posturings of the Tea Party put them, for me, far to the right of the GOP.
The Tea Party movement is extreme. In that it believes in extremely low spending, extremely low taxes, extreme liberty and an extreme adherence to the constitution. But when 43c of every dollar spent by the US is borrowed money I think a bit of extremism may be necessary! If America goes bankrupt we're all in trouble! It's not like Greece where you can have other, bigger economies bail them out.
The libertarians I refer to are as far from fascist- they are trying to reclaim the constitutionalist roots of the Republican Party. Ideologically they are on the exact opposite end of the spectrum as fascists. They work within the Republican Party because the Republican Party is a party with a history of Constitutionalism, it is the party of Lincoln, it is the party that ended slavery, it is the party with a base most likely to support smaller government. The Democrats look to centralised government as the solution for everything- as bigoted and as warmongering as the Neo-Cons in control over the Republican Party in recent years have been, on the balance the party and the party's base are still receptive to small government and individual responsibility.
The Tea Party itself is a broad movement, it is impossible to say that it has one single coherent view on anything beyond low spending, low taxing. Saying "the Tea Party is ..." anything beyond that is as futile about saying "gays believe ..." or "the environmental movement is ..." Some people in the Tea Party movement believe we should stay in Iraq, many others believe we should never have gone in.
I get your point about "you can judge a person's character by the company they keep" but the Tea Party movement began primarily with Ron Paul's Revolution in the 2008 primaries. I don't think the fact that it has been co-opted by Neo Cons and establishment Republicans should mean that the movement is abandoned! Libertarians are actually having a lot of success mixing it up and being elected on constitutionalist, low-tax platforms. They are reclaiming the roots of the Republican Party.
(In a UK context the politicians I'm referring to are typically closest to the market liberal faction of the Lib Dems.)
So I'm going to continue to voice my support from abroad for the individuals I believe are doing a good job upholding freedom, liberty and constitutionalism. That doesn't stop me from condemning Dubya, Palin and other warmongering, Neo Con Republicans- even when they try and ally themselves with the Tea Party movement.
I support Ron Paul, Rand Paul, Gary Johnson from the Republican Party. I support Wayne Allen Root from the Libertarian Party (amongst others). I've never, in this thread, expressed interest in any Republicans beyond those three. But this thread started off with Rand Paul being painted red- when his views run totally against the Neo Cons in the Republican established. Brody seems to be mocking Rand because he's shaking things up and behaving in a non-politiciany way. Well bring it on! We need more people shaking things up and less people behaving like politicians! We need more people questioning excessive regulation and more people looking for best practice, best service and lowest prices in government.
Anyway, that'll do me for now
Look at this tree. I cannot make it blossom when it suits me nor make it bear fruit before its time [...] No matter what you do, that seed will grow to be a peach tree. You may wish for an apple or an orange, but you will get a peach.
Master Oogway
Location: United States
Registered: April 2008
Messages: 195
On what planet do you live because it can't be the one I'm on?
NEOLIBERALISM for the fifth time does not ever work the way people who promote neoliberalism say it is supposed to work. Markets like Governments are creations of human beings and must obey people there is NO changing this. "Free Markets" are therefore a FICTION and cannot be trusted because of the people who inevitably gain power over the MARKETS are the people who have control over the wealth of a nation. Eventually the governments governing the "Free Markets" lose their ability to address reality because the only people in government are those with the wealth of the nation to be governed. It is impossible for neoliberalism to reduce the power of government because "free markets" are more dependent on the State for survival than neoliberalism would have people believe. The links only explain neoliberalism in more detail.
I would hardly consider low taxes to be reasonable in a country with almost 15 trillion in debt. Debt which was caused by adherence to the neoliberal ideology. I also do not consider it to be responsible to tax working class people in order to give tax breaks to the wealthy and upper middle class. The super wealthy do not need more they already have more than too much in both political and economic power. What neoliberalism says they will do with the extra money they receive is irrelevant now.
I will agree with you that the Libertarians are not fascists in nature but the fact remains that they still believe in Neoliberalism. Neoliberalism will lead one day to either Fascism or Communism unless the idea that the market can be trusted to do everything is stopped. The Governments of the world have too much of a stake in the prevention of massive social unrest, and markets are not rational because people are irrational. Do not forget who is in control of the governments and markets of the world. The people who have a stake in continuing neoliberal policies. I could go on but I'll allow people a chance to digest.
He who joyfully marches in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake since for him a spinal cord would suffice. Albert Einstein
The current system is by and large corporatism, not capitalism.
Corporations exist, monopolies exist through government sponsorship.
True free markets aren't dependent on the state, that is what makes them free. Corporatism is, by definition, dependent on the state. We haven't seen a truly economically liberal state, a libertarian state. But numberless examples from around the world show one thing- wealth and standard of living go up as countries embrace liberalised markets- even for the poorest.
Taxing of the wealthy isn't a matter of fairness, but liberty. If you are stealing from someone to give to another person you better have a damned good reason. You need to justify tax, tax cuts are the inherently moral position.
Look at this tree. I cannot make it blossom when it suits me nor make it bear fruit before its time [...] No matter what you do, that seed will grow to be a peach tree. You may wish for an apple or an orange, but you will get a peach.
Master Oogway
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Well, at least these Tea Party types make hearings- um yeah? 
Re: Rand Paul is amazing 
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