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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13750
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I notice we have, so far, refrained from comment. I'm hoping that is because we're looking at the media circus and the street scenes in the USA with some serious concern. Our own corespondent has some thoughts, too: http://tinyurl.com/6b79v2o so one can accuse, him, too, of being a part of the feeding frenzy.
There are some major concerns. One of these is the intense wave of "It makes me PROUD to be AMERICAN" sentiment. There are certainly things to be proud of as a US citizen. I'm simply not sure that celebrating in the streets as if one's team has won the Superbowl is an appropriate behaviour. Megaman and I spoke of this earlier in comparison to the last world war and the death of Hitler. We knew there was a difference, but it took a while to find it.
He summarised it that we, certainly, and the USA to an extent, suffered continuously under Hitler in no holds barred all out bloody war that involved civilians and military alike. When the war in Europe was over we cheered. And so did much of Germany. The current terror issues differ markedly from that scenario.
We need to restore sanity. Revenge is a deeply unpleasant thing and pride in revenge is an unpleasant thing indeed. The cowboy in the black hat is dead. That makes very little difference to the world except to make it more dangerous for a while.
Please can we get on with bringing the world into the Human Rights fold and set this sorry and successful incident on the shelf of history, now?
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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WASHINGTON-- Reactions from world leaders to last night's killing of Osama Bin Laden by a U. S. Navy Seal team accompanied by operatives from the American intelligence community, has been mostly approving, praising the Obama administration's successful elimination of what has been generally perceived as an ongoing threat to peace.
Critics though charge that the groundwork for this successful mission lies with the efforts and policies made during the administration of former U. S. president George W. Bush. [snip]
In Britain, Lord Norman Tebbit of Chingford, who is one of Britain's most outspoken conservative commentators, politician, as well as a former senior cabinet minister in Margaret Thatcher's government wrote:
"For me, and many other victims of the Sinn Fein/IRA terrorism which cost the lives of thousands in this Kingdom, there is something jarring in the way in which the Government lavishes praise on those who rid the world of one purveyor of terrorism whilst extending praise and even armed protection to those guilty of the same crimes here. The Prime Minister and the Foreign Secretary have been unequivocal in their support of the assassination of bin Laden. They are equally unequivocal in refusing to contemplate the execution of terrorists here. For them the death penalty is out of question except when carried out by US Special Forces outside the United States, or possibly in Libya against Qaddafi."
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13750
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I find it very annoying that I agree with Tebbit and also with the Vatican's comment: “Faced with the death of a man, a Christian never rejoices, but reflects on the serious responsibility of each and every one of us before God and before man, and hopes and commits himself so that no event is an opportunity for further growth of hatred, but for peace,”
Life is weird when I agree with either of these people.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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I think one of the things most of us find so awkward about this whole thing is the notion of killing in general. Let's make no bones about it. Bin Laden is behind the deaths of many thousands of his own people, as well as the attacks in the subways in London and the World Trade Center attacks. This was a brutal, evil man, by any definition. He didn't attack warriors or heads of state. He attacked people, just common folk. He orchestrated the deaths of innocent people just going about their daily lives. Ending him, despite how we feel about killing, was necessary.
I am proud of my country, and I am worried about the directions I see many people in my country leaning. And for all the flag waving and bible thumping types I live amongst here in the US southeast, I do find most of my political views differing from my neighbors. But we aren't outright killing normal folk. I strive to look for peaceful ways to resolve situations without violence, but I am prepared to defend necessary actions, necessary violence. Sometimes, when the disease has gone too far, you have to call in the surgeon to cut away the poisonous tissue.
And as much as I hate to say it, we've all let the doctor pass on the bill for too long. I don't think we've got anything to be proud of here. I think we must simply realize that it had to be done. Who knows what else this monster might have come up with.
Still, it saddens me that it's come to this. At least this chapter is over. Now, we wait to see if or when the cycle continues with his successor.
It's not the wolf you see you should fear, but all the ones he howls with. Don't be afraid of the song, but don't piss off the choir.
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13750
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So many people fail to understand that there is no successor save that we all create and deify one. The organisation never existed save in the news media. It was never organised, not really.
Terrorism requires a lucky hit to be effective. There was one. A very simple task of hijacking a plane or two and crashing them into a building exceeded the perpetrators' expectations. not because of the number it killed, but because it created them as a big, bad wolf, and because we all reacted by creating massive security brouhaha. Now we are afraid, it seems.
And we give terrorist strikes anniversaries and commemorate them each year. That is insanity. Even we, here, have started to do that.
He was an unpleasant man, there is no argument about that. I'm sure that he will not be missed much by right thinking people. But his death is irrelevant now. As was his life yesterday.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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There i must disagree. Ignoring a threat is not neutralizing one. Pretending the hornet nest in your garden wont bother you if you give it space is not practical. I seem to recall a great deal of attention paid to some small organization called the IRA, and I'm fairly certain it was never ignored. You don't let the fear rule you, but you don't turn your back, either. History proves this.
However, I choose not to dispute with you. We have differing opinions, and I respect that. I also ask you to not lump all Americans in the same cup of tea. There's a lot of us, spread over a large territory, and we aren't all the same. I suspect the same is true of citizens of the Crown. Not all of us view things exactly the same. Perhaps with the respect of differences, that diversity of thought and conscious, thought can be provoked beyond nationalistic pride, all around.
It's not the wolf you see you should fear, but all the ones he howls with. Don't be afraid of the song, but don't piss off the choir.
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ray2x
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Really getting into it |
Location: USA
Registered: April 2009
Messages: 429
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Life is frigging weird!! The whole last decade was weird. I for one am not rejoicing but rather guarded of the news. I suspect families of 9-11 victims have more rights and privileges for celebrating. I wish them better days. I also wish the feel good times last more than a week but suspect too that the fox lying machine is cranking up a slew of bush is the winner news.
Raymundo
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Re: Today's news is troubling 
