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Readership  [message #67257] Mon, 24 December 2012 02:48 Go to next message
JoeWriterMan is currently offline  JoeWriterMan

Getting started
Location: United States
Registered: September 2010
Messages: 20



Hey gang, just a couple of comments before I sail off into the sunset.

Knowing Timmy, he said exactly what he meant to say... he's articulate and has a good grasp of the English language.

I have no doubt that he and I, one hundred percent agree on the point of readership.  Without readers there is no purpose for us authors to write a single word... unless one just likes to see himself (or herself) pound away on a keyboard.  I like to read.  I love good stories that have a good outcome... (even if they take a while to develop) they are inspiring to me.  One of my greatest inspiring stories came from Timmy's "Chris and Nigel"... I had to purchase a lifetime reserve supply of Kleenex used for varying bouts of crying and sobbing, and large spandex supporters for when I laughed so hard.  My other inspiring stories come from the Clan Short Universe... and to a much lesser extent - generally, the Fuck and Suck stories over at You Know Where.  I'm hosted at You Know Where, so I'm not bad mouthing LOL.

Way back when, probably 3 years ago, I came to Timmy with my flagship story The Light, asked him to take a peak and host me.  He looked at it and said "no, not now".  He provided the name and email address of a dude who worked as my editor for a while.  I completely rewrote a good part of the story and then resubmitted it.  Timmy took another look and accepted me here.  Currently, he is hosting 3 of my stories... The Light, The Redemption, and Life on the Farm.  Darryl came onboard as my editor several months ago... I'm grateful he took me on... I've learned a lot from him.  My chapters have taken on much better clarity.

So.. when Timmy's note came over the email wire this morning, I was a bit taken aback, and, in fact, I am having great difficulties digesting some of the comments, see below for specifics.

I believe that a hosting site's primary purpose is to bring authors and readers together.  I believe an author's "job" is to bring a story to the reader so that he or she has something to read.  In other words, the authors, editors and other contributors bring works to the site for all to read.

As a actively contributing author, and as a reader, I am quite annoyed with the words, attitude and tone sent through the below comments.

Maholo,
JWM
 
------ Cut and pasted for brevity -------------

The past year we've been using the new scheme of publishing stories to the site. 90% of the time that's worked well. We run the site for the readership, not the authors, and we discovered that readers like to get to the end of a serial before starting the next one. Pretty much we achieve that for you. One author became annoyed, I'm afraid, and chose to leave. It was his free choice, and we miss him.
 
Of course, missing him is fine, but we have a healthy queue of new stories to come onto the site, so missing him is relative. I miss the end of his story. Mind you, so does everyone else! He hasn't posted it anywhere else either!
Re: Readership  [message #67258 is a reply to message #67257] Mon, 24 December 2012 08:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
timmy

Has no life at all
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13739



That I have annoyed you upsets me. I had not set out to annoy, nor did I expect to have done so. It strikes me that I was obviously not as clear as I considered I was. So let me attempt better clarity. After that, if you are still annoyed, then I will look at that with pleasure.

Let me break this down.
  • We agree, I think, that the site is run for readers. Authors are important, because without authors there would be no readers. But without readers there is no point in writing a single word. We have chickens and eggs, but, as with the chicken and egg, since chickens come from eggs, for there to be a chicken in whatever evolved form it takes, an egg must have existed previously.
  • Readers expressed a strong preference for a serial to run to completion, not to be obscured by other tales and serials being published simultaneously and delaying the next chapter's arrival. We moved to that scheme some 12 months ago, and, despite a few anomalies, it works well.
  • The new scheme delays an author's latest contribution from appearing until it can take its turn in the queue. I had not explained that part, considering it obvious, but I add it here for clarity.
  • One author, one I am not about to identify, became annoyed that he felt he was not being given the attention he felt he deserved, He was used to the prior scheme where there was little delay in publishing a new piece, but also little continuity for the readership. The delay was, he felt, not congruent with his desires. He did become annoyed. He was annoyed in a polite manner, nonetheless he expressed his annoyance firmly and assertively and chose to leave. I had not explained this in huge detail in the email, have added some detail, but choose not to expose the actual discussion to public scrutiny. The part I will expose is that he ordered me to remove his story/stories from the site. I will remove stories when asked politely and given a decent personal reason. I have done so when an author was genuinely harassed in his private life, for example. Otherwise I do not remove stories. I do not accede to angry 'requests' ever.
  • I do miss his stories.
  • Despite his objections to the site not publishing his stories almost at once, because I follow the incomplete tale on Nifty, I have seen that there have been no updates there for several months. Thus I say with some confidence that everyone misses the end of his story because he has not posted it elsewhere. It goes without saying that the story is a good one. It would not be here otherwise. Thus I miss it the more for being good and not about to be finished here.
  • The missing of him and his stories is truly relative. We do have a healthy production queue. New stories have to wait approximately a dozen weeks before we can introduce them into the mix. We made a Christmas Exception (with capital letters) for the Christmas Tales, but that is acceptable and not really queue jumping at all. It's a planned exception. With so many good authors on the site we miss any author who vanishes, and for whatever reason, but that is still relative.

I think I have now explained it better, expanding some areas. If it was my lack of prior clarity that caused you to take offence where none was intended I hope you can now see whether it was genuinely offensive to you, or was offensive by my relative brevity. If you remain offended then I am happy to attempt to alter that. I am away over Christmas, so a reply is likely to be less than immediate, though.

To be clear, I had not set out to offend. I am genuinely sorry that I have caused you offence with the message itself, and, if the clarification leaves you offended still, I am sorry that I have offended you.

[Updated on: Mon, 24 December 2012 09:18]




Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
Re: Readership  [message #67259 is a reply to message #67257] Mon, 24 December 2012 11:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kitzyma is currently offline  Kitzyma

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Registered: March 2012
Messages: 215



When I read the message referred to I didn't find it in any way offensive, or even mildly controversial, either as an author or as a reader. However, from my own experience of feedback from my stories, I realise that the reader's interpretation isn't always exactly what the author intended. The interpretation of my stories is often influenced as much by the reader's experiences and expectations as it is by my words. I suspect that is the case not only in stories but also in much briefer messages, especially when interpreting a 'tone' and 'attitude' from just a few words.

I remember the consultation about reader preference regarding having a serial run to completion without being delayed by new serials published simultaneously, and at that time I, in reader mode, also expressed my strong preference for that. As it happens, because of the way I write and submit stories, that also suits my preference in my author mode. However, I can understand that some authors, having put much time and effort into their story, could feel a little frustrated by having to wait for readers to see it.

There are no perfect systems, and all decisions have pros and cons. If we choose to be part of any group or society, compromises are always necessary, and not everyone will be happy with those compromises. Much as I would like everything to be be exactly how I want it to be all of the time, most of the time I just have to accept compromises. If giving readers serials in the way they prefer results in a delay in publication, to me that seems to be a reasonable compromise.

Kit

[Updated on: Mon, 24 December 2012 12:03]

Re: Readership  [message #67260 is a reply to message #67259] Mon, 24 December 2012 15:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Nick Deverill is currently offline  Nick Deverill

Toe is in the water

Registered: November 2012
Messages: 78



As a reader, I want to be sure that following a series will lead to a conclusion. Nothing annoys more than following a story only for the tale to stop, without explanation, part way through. Consequently as an author I'd never submit a multi-part story until all the parts were written and the story complete.

I have perhaps three unfinished serial novels in progress on my computer, and started another two days ago. The latest one however will use elements from one of the uncompleted novels and from that aspect, stands a reasonable chance at being completed. If finished, and if it meets my standards, will be submitted here.

I am aware however that some authors are better than me at finishing things...
Re: Readership  [message #67261 is a reply to message #67260] Mon, 24 December 2012 16:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Kitzyma is currently offline  Kitzyma

Likes it here

Registered: March 2012
Messages: 215



"Nick "
As a reader, I want to be sure that following a series will lead to a conclusion. Nothing annoys more than following a story only for the tale to stop, without explanation, part way through. Consequently as an author I'd never submit a multi-part story until all the parts were written and the story complete.



--

Me, too!

One of my foibles as a reader is that I never start reading a multi-chapter story unless I know that it has been completed. There are several reasons for that, e.g. my impatience waiting for a next chapter, but one main reason is that in the past I've invested time and emotional energy in such a story only to find that it is either never completed or finished in a hurry because the author had given up on it.

The very first story I wrote was multi-chapter, and I think the quality suffered because I started posting when less than 20% had been written. Also, it nearly didn't get finished at all because severe personal problems arose around 80% of the way through. Eventually, it had to be rewritten at least twice before I thought it was adequate to submit here. So I learned my lesson and won't start posting a multi-chapter story until I've finished writing it.  Of course, every author has their own way of doing things and some, unlike me, can write high quality stories while posting them before completion.

Kit
Re: Readership  [message #67263 is a reply to message #67261] Mon, 24 December 2012 21:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Camy is currently offline  Camy

Likes it here
Location: UK
Registered: February 2008
Messages: 116



Like others, I won't read a serial novel unless I know it's complete. As a writer I once wrote myself into a fourteen chapter corner I couldn't resolve, and gave up. I swore I'd never do it again. Getting readers is hard and it's not fair to let them down. Thankfully, you can't stuff up a short story. Wink



"There are two means of refuge from the miseries of life: Music and Cats." - Albert Schweitzer

It's like Mad Max out here: guys doing guys, girls doing girls, girls turning into guys and doing girls that used to do girls and guys!
- from Alex Truelove
Re: Readership  [message #67265 is a reply to message #67263] Tue, 25 December 2012 03:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
JoeWriterMan is currently offline  JoeWriterMan

Getting started
Location: United States
Registered: September 2010
Messages: 20



Hey everybody,

Thank you for all of your kind comments... they are all most helpful.

Be well.
Re: Readership  [message #67266 is a reply to message #67265] Thu, 27 December 2012 19:41 Go to previous message
timmy

Has no life at all
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13739



I have been corrected. The unnamed author is posting elsewhere. He has emailed me to let me know. I haven't found where, though. It doesn't appear to be Nifty, though it does have two further chapters that we do not.



Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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