A Place of Safety
I expect simple behaviours here. Friendship, and love.
Any advice should be from the perspective of the person asking, not the person giving!
We have had to make new membership moderated to combat the huge number of spammers who register













You are here: Home > Forum > A Place of Safety > Literary Merit > Looking for a little help
Looking for a little help  [message #72922] Tue, 30 May 2017 15:55 Go to next message
Matthew is currently offline  Matthew   United Kingdom

Toe is in the water

Registered: February 2015
Messages: 64



Hey, i have a favour to ask and while I'm not sure if this is something that happens a lot, i am currently playing with the idea of writing a 3rd story, my previous two have been a decent success (well i think they have, lol) but i wanted to try something a little different to how i wrote those stories and I'm not sure if it works or not

So what i wanted to ask, was if someone was interested in looking at what i have written so far and give me some feedback, the more honest the better, because as of right now, i am not sure on how big this story will be and how far i want to take it, so i kind of want to see if the style i want to go with, actually works, would hate to write multiple chapters and stuff, only to find out very quickly that i got it wrong and the way that i've written it, doesn't work at all

Obviously, i dont know how many people will offer their help, maybe no one will, which is fine (i will not cry... well maybe a little, but they will be manly tears, lol) and i don't want to send what I've written to too many people, so i think if i say i will send it to the first two people who offer their help, i think that will be fair and work out quite well, so i will be looking for the people who offer, to post a reply to this topic, that way people will be able to see that two people have offered help already, i think that's the best way to go about this, i hope, lol

I kind of initially wanted to stipulate for actual writers to offer help, but as i thought about it more, it seemed to be the wrong way to think about it, because you don't need to have written something, to know what you enjoy reading and what works or not, so yeah, I decided to make a point that i don't mind if you've actually written a story yourself or not, all i ask is that if you offer, you're doing so because you think you can help me and give me honest feedback

As a side note, even if i do get help, I'm still not sure if this story will work out, it's early in it's development and until i write a couple of chapters, I won't be able to decide whether i want to continue with it or not, if that makes sense, i just want to at least make sure the style/format is at least readable

Oh and i apologize if i rambled a little bit above, i am seriously bad at explaining and expressing myself, i can't help it, i just confuse myself half the time, so i can only imagine i confuse other people even more, lol
Re: Looking for a little help  [message #72923 is a reply to message #72922] Tue, 30 May 2017 16:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
cm is currently offline  cm   United Kingdom

Getting started
Location: Somerset
Registered: May 2017
Messages: 19



Be happy to help, Matthew. Have just had the last chapter of my first story published (Mark and me) if you want to see the sort of hting I write and get some idea whether or not I'd be the right type of help!
Re: Looking for a little help  [message #72924 is a reply to message #72922] Tue, 30 May 2017 16:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
timmy   United Kingdom

Has no life at all
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 12833



Matt, I spent some time at Litopia from where I learned a lot.

I agree that you should try something different, but only because you want to, not because you need to.

What I think you need is a technical literary critique of your work, which is often brutal. Such a critique finds the poor parts, not the good parts



Inconsistent use of capital letters is the difference between Bobby helping Uncle Jack off a horse, AND Bobby helping uncle jack off a horse!
Re: Looking for a little help  [message #72925 is a reply to message #72924] Tue, 30 May 2017 16:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Matthew is currently offline  Matthew   United Kingdom

Toe is in the water

Registered: February 2015
Messages: 64



I will check that site out Smile

As for my writing, i don't regret much from TLoMS and LCA, there are changes i would make if i could go back to the start, but overall, i am very proud of them both, but i think i lost a bit of control over them and having so many characters and trying to balance it all, well it wasn't easy to stay on top of things and try and make it all work together

So with that in mind, i want to try and write from one characters perspective, first person i guess it's called or third person, idk, my knowledge of writing isn't that great, but yeah, i want to give another way of telling a story a go, i just don't know if how i've written it so far, actually reads well and works
Re: Looking for a little help  [message #72926 is a reply to message #72923] Tue, 30 May 2017 17:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Matthew is currently offline  Matthew   United Kingdom

Toe is in the water

Registered: February 2015
Messages: 64



"cm wrote on Tue, 30 May 2017 16:19"
Be happy to help, Matthew. Have just had the last chapter of my first story published (Mark and me) if you want to see the sort of hting I write and get some idea whether or not I'd be the right type of help!

--
Thank you CM, i sent you an email, hopefully it got to you, if not just PM your email address and i will try again
Re: Looking for a little help  [message #72927 is a reply to message #72925] Tue, 30 May 2017 18:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
timmy   United Kingdom

Has no life at all
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 12833



The 'voice' you write in sets the tone for the story. First person means you conceal everyone else's thoughts except what the lead character sees or has explained to him. Third person means you can handle every character's thoughts. Do not confuse this as so many people do with 'Point Of View'.

Write in the first person and the point of view is always the hero

Write in the third person and the Point Of View may alter to as many characters as you direct the reader to. This requires study and experimentation. Good writers do it well, new writers can lose control, and flit between characters by accident

My Writers Guide may be of use to you. Most of this you know instinctively.

Tenses, too, are a challenge. 

Experiment and enjoy it. See what works for you, and then see if another writer will give you an honest opinion. You need to know what does not work as much as what does work



Inconsistent use of capital letters is the difference between Bobby helping Uncle Jack off a horse, AND Bobby helping uncle jack off a horse!
Re: Looking for a little help  [message #72928 is a reply to message #72927] Wed, 31 May 2017 15:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Matthew is currently offline  Matthew   United Kingdom

Toe is in the water

Registered: February 2015
Messages: 64



Quote:
timmy wrote on Tue, 30 May 2017 18:48The 'voice' you write in sets the tone for the story. First person means you conceal everyone else's thoughts except what the lead character sees or has explained to him. Third person means you can handle every character's thoughts. Do not confuse this as so many people do with 'Point Of View'.

Write in the first person and the point of view is always the hero

Write in the third person and the Point Of View may alter to as many characters as you direct the reader to. This requires study and experimentation. Good writers do it well, new writers can lose control, and flit between characters by accident

My Writers Guide may be of use to you. Most of this you know instinctively.

Tenses, too, are a challenge. 

Experiment and enjoy it. See what works for you, and then see if another writer will give you an honest opinion. You need to know what does not work as much as what does work

--

Lol, looking through the list of things you don't like, i think i better not send the story to you... lol, seriously, i think i checked more than a couple off... but still, i want to give a narrators PoV for the story, even if it does appear to be something you haven't found that appealing before, although saying that i am eagerly waiting for CM's feedback and hopefully another author will be willing to offer their help as well, so things could change, i think you always have to be open for change and accept that some ideas are just not very good

But i think you nailed it on the head when you talk about experiementing and enjoying it, it's one of the reasons i wrote my first story, i wanted to challenge myself and also give myself an insight into how writers go about their work and all the behind the scene stuff that readers don't always get to experience for themselves and well even though it started as a little challenge, i did fall in love with writing and while there have been times where it's been a struggle, I've enjoyed it and like i said in one of the other posts, i want to try something different, i have everything crossed that it actually works and isn't awful, but at the end of the day, if i have fun doing it, it wouldn't be the end of the world if it never got submitted anywhere

So yeah, i see myself working on this for a while and it changing quite a lot in the process, i already have alternative ideas if the format/style i have chosen atm doesn't work out, i also have two chapters written in the same style as my first two stories, so i could use that, both stories seem to go down well, i mean looking at this forum, the topic i created titled Life of Matt Summers has a lot of views, so while that could mean nothing (it probably means nothing) i think at the very least, people are at least curious about my stories, but yeah, while i could fall back on that style, i really, really want to try something new

So yeah, fingers crossed Smile
Re: Looking for a little help  [message #72929 is a reply to message #72928] Wed, 31 May 2017 16:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
timmy   United Kingdom

Has no life at all
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 12833



Narrators as narrators are a very difficult area. An Omniscient Narrator is a pain because they usually TELL us stuff when you need to make us SEE stuff and be SHOWN it

If you need to switch voices migrate your writing to the third person. If you look at mainstream books there are almost none with headings for each of Bob and Carol and Ted and Alice and their then speaking in the first person voice.

A narrator does not have a point of view, but he has a voice. These are technically very different things.

Point of View is what the character sees, whether that is in first or third person voice

Voice is, pretty much, the pronoun used by the speaker. If it is "I" you are in the first person. Despite this seeming to be confusing, Voice is what is seen by, said by thought by and felt by the person. This is why it is often misdescribed as the very separate 'point of view'

So, if you say "I saw him coming towards me" you are speaking in the first person and living in the first person

"Harry, saw Fred coming towards him" is most definitely third person. 

"As Fred got closer it was clear to Harry that he was wearing a huge grin" is Harry's Point Of View in Third Person. We do not see through Fred's eyes. Later you can use Fred's eyes. But not by switching every sentence!



Inconsistent use of capital letters is the difference between Bobby helping Uncle Jack off a horse, AND Bobby helping uncle jack off a horse!
Re: Looking for a little help  [message #73004 is a reply to message #72922] Thu, 06 July 2017 01:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Brother Sorrows is currently offline  Brother Sorrows   United States

Getting started

Registered: July 2017
Messages: 5



Ever read Plato and / or Aristotle ?  English / USA versions, yes that is what is here asking.  Ever read such ?  Me do read so and more.  Several thousand books over 55 years ... am 65 and only really read since 10.  Reading is much work as have to write about what read.  Try to write but fail.  Except on sites as this.  And fail to write.  Hate Steven King  except for his first book, as put out original, which love.  Hate his expansive re-write.  Love JRR Tolkien original The Hobbitt with the hobbit Bilbo and dwarths / drowows and the dragon.  Love the squeeming creepy thing he re-creates from The Hobbit in his three part Lord Of The Rings.  You need work at writing.  Am a failure.  Work at reading does not mean the same as WORK on writing.  Repeat self, yes, but ever read Plato or Aristotle ?  They are not the first writers.  2500 years later, we still heed and read them, the rest being oddities or particulars.    Or, read and heed. 
Re: Looking for a little help  [message #73024 is a reply to message #73004] Tue, 11 July 2017 18:55 Go to previous message
Mark Driver is currently offline  Mark Driver   Canada

Getting started
Location: California
Registered: March 2017
Messages: 5



Brother Sorrows, your message brings to mind The Last of the Wine, by Mary Renault, the story of the beautiful boy Alexias, in the time of Socrates and Plato, how Renault's novel includes themes of the logic and philosophy from Socrates, and a small bit from Plato.  Her story definitely invites us to read and heed, especially in light of the way the world is today!  Though written in the 1950s, human nature does not change it seems, since the time of Socrates and the times of Renault's life.  That is what I kept thinking to myself as I read Last of the Wine earlier this year.  

Renault was briefly tutored by your Tolkien and then continued as Tolkien's student attending his lectures at Oxford.  David Sweetman's Renault biography suggests how Tolkien influenced her, that he was sympathetic to the young women writers at Oxford, and how she referred back to him later in life.   I admit I am stuck on her right now, and even picked up 3 different books written about Renault and her writing.  

The Last of the Wine is certainly apropos for this corner of the Internet, for those that do like to read a lot.  I ran across the images below and pasted them together.  These are just my imagination of the two lovers, how they might look.

In the end, our favorite writers such as Renault might be an example of how to shape what we try for when we write.  Renault certainly had a wonderful way creating plot.  She could do no wrong.

http://forum.iomfats.org/?t=getfile&id=3509&private=0

[Updated on: Tue, 11 July 2017 20:04]

Previous Topic: Thilo by Andrew Foote
Next Topic: Crimson Challenge
Goto Forum: