A Place of Safety
I expect simple behaviours here. Friendship, and love.
Any advice should be from the perspective of the person asking, not the person giving!
We have had to make new membership moderated to combat the huge number of spammers who register













You are here: Home > Forum > A Place of Safety > Literary Merit > The observer - Rafael Henry
The observer - Rafael Henry  [message #73201] Tue, 15 August 2017 22:52 Go to next message
andypaz is currently offline  andypaz   Argentina

Getting started
Location: buenos aires
Registered: June 2016
Messages: 13



Dear Timmy:
I feel I'm once more kicking the hornet's nest. I hope not. Please forgive me if that is the case.

I also feel that I "need" to say what follows:

In "the Observer", in different occasions, relations among The Observer (Otta) and his wife, and then among The Observer and James mother are mentioned.
We accepted those mentions as part of the gay love story. They might have been necessary in order to build the ambiance.
Now,(chapter 20 and 21) describes a "near" full sexual encounter among the Observer and Ellie (Elliot's mother), even mentioning her "clit", and "juices" and her "pleasure mount", etc, etc...

One of my friends, while we were reading and commenting Chapter 20 of "The Observer", suddenly shrieked: "Please, stop reading! -he said-, ¡Stop now!!... Otherwise you'll have back all the beer I drunk"...

I read and comment the stories together with other four friends. We have kind of a "private forum". We are all gay. None of us dresses in mini-skirts. We don't feel we need to paint our house pink. Or our hair blue. Or our lips green. We do not swagger when we walk. We do not have a lisp... All that in not being gay.
We also are not particularly ill (different in tastes) as the boy in Mihangel's "Not Understood" is.
We are happy gay people, who love gay life.We enjoy being gay. And we like reading GAY stories.

And we wander...

Is it necessary to have descriptions of hetero relations in a gay story? That is not what we want to read.

Somewhere, someone (I can not re-call who- says that authors should primarily write for themseves. Not taking into consideration if the reader will like or not their story. That's OK.  Mr Rafael Henry should be able to write whatever he wants to read. BUT; Why allow the  story to enter "our" GAY bookshelf, when  its full of disgusting hetero/bi descriptions?

Also, b.t.w.

I remember having read: "stories to be found in IOMFATS involve the growing emotions BETWEEN YOUNG MEN",

and,

"Absolutely no stories with adult/youth themes will be allowed, and no exceptions will be made"

Does this story match with the rules?  /  Aren't the lascivious relations between The Observer and his son's friends  (more than 20 years difference) breaking the rules?
It might be said that he "waited" for J to be over age of consent before...   /   I know it might be said that it was J who seduced him... BUT... I wonder...

Age difference among the characters having sexual relations, to be found in Rafael Henrys stories, is not only for "The Observer". Also (at least the idea) is in "Love in the Dunes" (a young Otta), and in others. Otta is older but the boys are always young. Very young...



Re: The observer - Rafael Henry  [message #73202 is a reply to message #73201] Wed, 16 August 2017 06:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
timmy   United Kingdom

Has no life at all
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 12893



Occasional heterosexual sex:

I have often wondered about the thought processes of the gay man who cannot hear or read about or even see sex between male and female without considering it to be in some manner nauseating. Why is that? Sex is sex. With oral sex the sex of the mouth is irrelevant.

Study the labia and the scrotum from below and you will see the very real physical similarities. They are a matter of the biological development of the embryo. The clitoris, when you can ever find the thing, and the penis, which is far more obvious, are very similar organs indeed. So the sole major matter of difference is the vagina itself, which is simply an elastic receptacle for more traditional sexual congress, and much prized by heterosexual men and, presumably, lesbian women.

Sex is sex.

Sex is only disgusting when one participant is harmed. Homosexual sex is, technically, disgusting because faecal matter is often involved, by the way. Heterosexual sex is, technically, disgusting because semen leaks out of the vagina after it takes place and the woman lies in the wet spot in the bed! But sex with love is never disgusting unless someone is harmed.

A teenage boy will shag a sofa if it gives him sufficient pleasure. So will an adult man. If not then Fleshlight would be out of business!

Your friend needs to drink less beer so he has less chance of throwing it back up, I think. Then he needs to take a look at whether he has become a stereotype.

Age of participants:

Look at the older folk in these tales, and tell me if they are truly mature adults. Part of them acts as such, and yet I see them very differently. I see them as adult bodies with adult intellects and yet the emotional development of children, in so many ways younger than the boys they adore, despite being physically more mature. I have not suggested these thoughts to our author, but will be very interested in his interpretation of what I believe I see.

It is rare that I include a set of themes where one protagonist is above and the other below the age of consent, but I do it from time to time, and when I believe a story has something to say that is more than pure sex. That, by the way, is true of all the tales I include here.

Ignoring legislatures which call and sex between those over and those under the age of consent rape, which it is by law, which protagonists in the story have been harmed? Look at that with care, for I feel it is almost always the adult.

You yourself, yourselves:

I very much doubt anyone expected that you might dress in clothes deemed by society to be non masculine, but why not? Whose disapproval do you fear? I would enjoy having blue hair sometimes, but it would not suit me. It is the aesthetics that constrain me on things like that, not the reaction of society.

Hornets nests?

Kick them. I like what happens when you kick. People discuss things.

[Updated on: Wed, 16 August 2017 19:54]




Inconsistent use of capital letters is the difference between Bobby helping Uncle Jack off a horse, AND Bobby helping uncle jack off a horse!
Re: The observer - Rafael Henry  [message #73203 is a reply to message #73202] Wed, 16 August 2017 15:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
timmy   United Kingdom

Has no life at all
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 12893



Ah, the rules. Well, if this were a democracy then there would be rules. It is a benign dictatorship. I have guidelines I impose on myself and I reserve the absolute right to ignore the guidelines for reasons of my choosing.

The main rule is that I have to like the story and that it has to paint a picture in my head that I find pleasing or useful, or valuable in some manner.

I was, once, a judge of show dogs. I can admire the lines of an animal and decide whether it meets a breed standard. I can admire a svelte young man or young lady. I may wish sexual congress with neither. It is more likely (99% plus probability) that I will wish it with the young man. And thus it is with stories.



Inconsistent use of capital letters is the difference between Bobby helping Uncle Jack off a horse, AND Bobby helping uncle jack off a horse!
Re: The observer - Rafael Henry  [message #73205 is a reply to message #73202] Wed, 16 August 2017 19:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Andichan is currently offline  Andichan   United Kingdom

Getting started
Location: Hillmorton UK
Registered: December 2014
Messages: 16



Thanks Tim. I was gagging to respond to this, but countered my need by reminding myself that I have my own problems dealing with the flack from Thilo.

I liked Raf's story. I believe that many men can see themselves in the same position as Otta.

I will comment in more detail tomorrow, but for now I would like to congratulate Raf on another captivating read.



Andy.
Re: The observer - Rafael Henry  [message #73206 is a reply to message #73205] Wed, 16 August 2017 19:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
timmy   United Kingdom

Has no life at all
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 12893



I like a robust discussion here. I appreciate differences of opinion expressed well. I'm looking forward to all the views that I hope folk will express here.

If Thilo has created flack then it is proof that folk are reading it. We can ask for no more. It is giving them pleasure ether by their reading it or by their criticising it. Each is a service you have provided for them.



Inconsistent use of capital letters is the difference between Bobby helping Uncle Jack off a horse, AND Bobby helping uncle jack off a horse!
Re: The observer - Rafael Henry  [message #73207 is a reply to message #73205] Wed, 16 August 2017 20:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
cm is currently offline  cm   United Kingdom

Toe is in the water
Location: Somerset
Registered: May 2017
Messages: 73



Differences - that's the beauty of it.

I cannot, in any world or any circumstances, see myself in Otta's world. I find the whole paradigm Raf has created objectionable, exploitative and immoral.

But...

The story is well told and I appreciate that my views are precisely that; my views. The universe is a big place that is full of diversity - and maybe I am the one whose views are skewed. Is Otta  a predatory paedophile who has groomed a 12-year old boy (with his mother's apparent consent) or a loving man who has helped a boy celebrate his nature and supported him to achieve his full potential? It is easy to rush to judgment based on one's own upbringing and experiences. And it is good to have these things challenged.

And - as Timmy has said - who (if anyone) has been damaged by the relationship that Raf has described?

On the wider front, this is the real value of the enormous variety of stories on this site. I may decline to read things that bore me, but I am happy to read things that challenge me - even if I find them uncomfortable. The virtue of a well-written story that challenges us is that it makes us question whether or not what we thought we 'knew' is right. And comforting as it is to have our prejudices confirmed, it is infinitely more interesting to have them questioned.

So - regardless of my instincts and intuitive judgments - reading 'The Observer' has been a good experience, and one that's made me think.

And what more can one ask of an author?

Re: The observer - Rafael Henry  [message #73209 is a reply to message #73207] Wed, 16 August 2017 21:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
timmy   United Kingdom

Has no life at all
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 12893



"cm wrote on Wed, 16 August 2017 21:51"
Differences - that's the beauty of it.

I cannot, in any world or any circumstances, see myself in Otta's world. I find the whole paradigm Raf has created objectionable, exploitative and immoral.

But...

The story is well told and I appreciate that my views are precisely that; my views. The universe is a big place that is full of diversity - and maybe I am the one whose views are skewed. Is Otta  a predatory paedophile who has groomed a 12-year old boy (with his mother's apparent consent) or a loving man who has helped a boy celebrate his nature and supported him to achieve his full potential? It is easy to rush to judgment based on one's own upbringing and experiences. And it is good to have these things challenged.

And - as Timmy has said - who (if anyone) has been damaged by the relationship that Raf has described?

On the wider front, this is the real value of the enormous variety of stories on this site. I may decline to read things that bore me, but I am happy to read things that challenge me - even if I find them uncomfortable. The virtue of a well-written story that challenges us is that it makes us question whether or not what we thought we 'knew' is right. And comforting as it is to have our prejudices confirmed, it is infinitely more interesting to have them questioned.

So - regardless of my instincts and intuitive judgments - reading 'The Observer' has been a good experience, and one that's made me think.

And what more can one ask of an author?








--
I cannot conceive of the worlds Raf creates existing. Yet there is every reason to express them, to explore them, to consider what is good and what is less good about them.

Are they wrong? Is society wrong? Are they fluff and fantasy or do they have a harder edge to them? What of the boy who craves the attention, and yes, the sexual attention, of a more adult male? He must exist, indeed I know of one adult a year younger than me who craved his scoutmaster, and achieved the object of his desires. Who was harmed? My friend is proud of the relationship with his scoutmaster. He views it as good for him, for both of them. Was it?

Does Raf show paedophilia, or does he show loving relationships? Your answer and mine, and theirs, and the one from that bloke over there, they will differ.

And that is why I have chosen his stories. They make me think. They show love. They are not erotic, except in what he leaves out. There is romance, longing, and real boys with adults they are fortunate to meet in that the adults seem to be children, too.

[Updated on: Wed, 16 August 2017 21:44]




Inconsistent use of capital letters is the difference between Bobby helping Uncle Jack off a horse, AND Bobby helping uncle jack off a horse!
Re: The observer - Rafael Henry  [message #73210 is a reply to message #73207] Wed, 16 August 2017 21:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mark   United States

Really getting into it
Location: Earth
Registered: April 2013
Messages: 763



This is definitely an interesting topic.

"An Apprentice's Adventures" is one story here that includes both heterosexual and homosexual sex (as well as other similar romantic gestures - kissing, flirting, etc. - both heterosexual and homosexual in nature), involving a main character that, for a while, had been coming to realize that he was bisexual (and when I was writing it out, I had for a while actually considered having more heterosexual sex in there than I ultimately decided to have in there).  The story was fully written out prior to any on-line "publishing," on Nifty and was put in the Bisexual section of the site.  A good portion of it was posted, including the heterosexual parts, when Timmy contacted me (I as memory serves me, there was something like 2 or 3 chapters left to go at that time), requesting permission to have it also posted here (which is how I first met him and learned of the IOMFATS site).  Looking around this site, I was, like Andypaz, a bit surprised that Timmy would want a story with heterosexual content to be posted on a site that looked (to me, at least) geared towards strictly homosexual topics and stories.  I hesitantly asked him if perhaps he'd like to wait until the full story was posted on Nifty prior to making a final decision on whether to post it here as well (kind of my way of asking "Are you sure you want it on your site?" without actually coming out and directly asking that), but he responded that he was definitely sure of it.

Now, despite my having found it a bit strange at the time, I don't really have any complaints about it being posted here - I've wouldn't be surprised if I've actually got more readership here from the intended target audience that I've gotten it on Nifty (which is site I wrote it for originally).

I am also gay, and similarly, I don't dress like a woman, paint my house pink or various parts of my body in any way,  I don't walk with a swagger or dance around in a girly way chanting, "I'm here, I'm queer, I'm fab-u-lous!"  (Think of the gay pride parade scene in the movie "My Fellow Americans" for comparison, for those who have seen that movie.)  In many ways I tend to look and act like a straight guy, at least when I'm out and about (to the point that yes, a couple of people who've known me for a long time were actually surprised to find out I'm gay, since I didn't meet their image of the stereotypical gay person).  At the same time, I don't consider the heterosexual aspects of the story, or any other story, to be "disgusting."  It's not always my cup of tea, but it's not disgusting in and of itself.  As Timmy pointed out, sex is sex.

It's not too dissimilar with adult/youth pairing in stories.  The way I see it, these are fictional stories, not guides for moral living (and even if a particular story is based on real events, it's still not a guide for moral living), and should be treated as such; among other things, that means that nothing bad happens to any of the characters unless the author wants something bad to happen to the characters (though I will, of course, acknowledge that that's not how real life works).  That means that sometimes characters below the age of consent sometimes make out with characters who are above the age of consent, and there are no bad consequences as a result of that pairing.  (I was talking with Timmy once about what other stories I might have that he might want to post here, and I did mention that I had been tinkering with, but for several reasons, had ultimately shelved another story that involved a homosexual relations between a man in his early 20's and a boy of 14; in that discussion, I noted that my other story here, "The Immortal" - which had already been posted here by that point - probably has the largest age gap between two romantically-involved characters of any story on the site, at nearly 250 years).

However, I'm also someone who has works on several sites, and on another site, there are those there who would be absolutely horrified to look at a site like this, for no other reason than there are stories here containing sexual relations between minors, even when it's about an obviously fictional story as you could get (yes, even stories like "The Wolf and the Lamb").  As best I have been able to determine, it's because they think that such stories promote the real life harming of children.
Re: The observer - Rafael Henry  [message #73211 is a reply to message #73210] Wed, 16 August 2017 22:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
timmy   United Kingdom

Has no life at all
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 12893



"Mark wrote on Wed, 16 August 2017 22:53"
This is definitely an interesting topic.

[....]

However, I'm also someone who has works on several sites, and on another site, there are those there who would be absolutely horrified to look at a site like this, for no other reason than there are stories here containing sexual relations between minors, even when it's about an obviously fictional story as you could get (yes, even stories like "The Wolf and the Lamb").  As best I have been able to determine, it's because they think that such stories promote the real life harming of children.

--

People with prejudices, in which I include myself, enjoy having their prejudices reinforced by the way they choose to interpret what they see. We shed our prejudices slowly, if ever. As a teenage child I was prejudiced against the entire thought of my being seduced by an older person, even an older teenager, so much so that I never realised that I might be in control of the seduction. I think, on the balance of probability, that my prejudice was foolish and I am pretty certain I woudl have enjoyed such a liaison. But that is based upon what I have learned.

Prejudices abound in all things. We see that in many parts of the world at present, but none so obvious today as the events in Charlottesville and the lack of true condemnation by the persn elected as president.

It is trite yet true to state that no underage boys were harmed in the wroting of The Observer, nor, indeed, any of Raf's other tales. None were harmed in his writing, so have they been harmed by his writing? And how about the adults? What of the female protagonists in those tales who used Raf's heroes for sex, and in one case to father a child? More inportant, do we learn anything while reading them? If not, why are we reading any tales at all?



Inconsistent use of capital letters is the difference between Bobby helping Uncle Jack off a horse, AND Bobby helping uncle jack off a horse!
Re: The observer - Rafael Henry  [message #73212 is a reply to message #73211] Wed, 16 August 2017 23:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mark   United States

Really getting into it
Location: Earth
Registered: April 2013
Messages: 763



"Quote:"
timmy wrote on Wed, 16 August 2017 16:15
It is trite yet true to state that no underage boys were harmed in the wroting of The Observer, nor, indeed, any of Raf's other tales. None were harmed in his writing, so have they been harmed by his writing? And how about the adults? What of the female protagonists in those tales who used Raf's heroes for sex, and in one case to father a child? More inportant, do we learn anything while reading them? If not, why are we reading any tales at all?

--

Certainly, whether or not anyone (or at least anyone who is real and not a fictional character) has ever been harmed by such writing (or at least harmed enough to insist that stories involving minors engaged in sex should not exist, which is what these individuals in question on this other site maintain), I don't know if anyone can really say.  Certainly, here in the U.S. we've heard many news reports of adults who have been arrested for having sex with youth under the age of 18.  Jerry Sandusky is probably among the more notorious, both here and abroad, but he's not the only one.  It seems that in the past few years there have been a slew of stories about overly horny female teachers who have been arrested and prosecuted for having sex with male students.

There have been many stories written and published in book form involving individuals under the age of 18 having sex, and some of those have done very well.  Mercedes Lackey, Raymond E. Feist, and Anne McCafferey (and her son Todd, who inherited the copywrite to her "Pern" series after her death and has continued the series), just to name a few (Lackey even has a homosexual couple, both of whom were under the age of 18, in her "Last Herald-Mage" trilogy).  I've never heard of any of the perpetrators previously mentioned in the above paragraph explaining their actions as, "Oh, those authors/Nifty and IOMFATS made me do it!"

Now, in real life sexual abuse of anyone, minor or adult, is bad.  I don't wish to imply otherwise.  But I suppose that what bothers me is that these accusations are being made about the stories that I and others here write, claiming that we're somehow promoting abuse of children, without the people making such accusations offering up any evidence to support their claims.  They also seem to be turning a blind eye to other published works that have children being harmed in non-sexual ways - they don't seem to have a problem with, say, "The Huger Games," or "A Song of Ice and Fire" (the basis for the popular television show "Game of Thrones"), and the only accusation I've ever heard leveled against the "Harry Potter" series is that it supposedly promotes witchcraft (ignoring all the characters under the age of 18 who are harmed or killed during the series)

Now, to be fair, I do realize that some of those who raise objections to stories about minors having sex might have good reasons for their objections.  I know some people here have acknowledged having been sexually abused as youth, and it's possible the people on the other site who have raised objections to the stories found here and elsewhere might also have been sexually abused as youth as well (in a discussion on it on the other website, someone did point out that the objections could be as the result of a sort of "guilt by association," which is an interesting point to consider).  And I do sometimes kind of wonder if perhaps I overly "Disney-ify" my stories, and like to read stories like "Minkey's World" or "The Wolf and the Lamb" that seem to do the same thing (meaning that yes, sometimes bad things happen to good people, but it all works out for them in the end, and the good guys live Happily Ever After while any bad guys get their just desserts).

[Updated on: Thu, 17 August 2017 00:00]

Re: The observer - Rafael Henry  [message #73249 is a reply to message #73212] Mon, 21 August 2017 16:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
William King is currently offline  William King   France

Toe is in the water

Registered: October 2016
Messages: 34



What I read here are two separate points about stories, including (graphic) hetero sex, and age difference in sexual relations (sex with minors).

Taking the sexual relations with minors first, things do kind of rest around the age of consent, which in the USA is 18, but in Europe is mostly 15 or 16, so it's arbitrary, and I actually think it's a better law in Germany, where a 14 year old boy can have a sexual relationship with an adult if he chooses, but can file a complaint if he feels the adult has initiated a predatory relationship.

Having said that, it is a difficult subject. I worked some time ago with a lady who was a good friend and we shared confidences. For myself that amounted to being open about being gay, for her it was about meeting her husband when she was an underage schoolgirl and he was her teacher. They have been happily married for years, so abuse is difficult to define.

I do not want to make loads more work for Tim in posting stories, but I can appreciate what andypaz said when he kicked off the thread. If each story contained a synopsis and perhaps a simple categorisation then andypaz and his friends may have chosen not to read the story before ever they reached the bits they didn't like.

Possibly I'm a rebel and anti-authoritarian at heart, but I really do think the age of consent is unimportant, 18 is, excuse me for saying, ridiculous. Governments in some countries have been considering giving the vote to 16 year olds. Still it's a hot potato, but authors should be allowed to explore these areas freely, we do not need literary censorship and book burning! 

Finally, I actually appreciate Tim's benign dictatorship approach to publishing stories and one has to give credit, where credit is due, he has done a pretty damned good job over a number of years of publishing gay and some not so gay books.

Of synopses, and a little about age of consent  [message #73250 is a reply to message #73249] Mon, 21 August 2017 16:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
timmy   United Kingdom

Has no life at all
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 12893



"William King wrote on Mon, 21 August 2017 17:10"
What I read here are two separate points about stories, including (graphic) hetero sex, and age difference in sexual relations (sex with minors).

Taking the sexual relations with minors first, things do kind of rest around the age of consent, which in the USA is 18, but in Europe is mostly 15 or 16, so it's arbitrary, and I actually think it's a better law in Germany, where a 14 year old boy can have a sexual relationship with an adult if he chooses, but can file a complaint if he feels the adult has initiated a predatory relationship.

Having said that, it is a difficult subject. I worked some time ago with a lady who was a good friend and we shared confidences. For myself that amounted to being open about being gay, for her it was about meeting her husband when she was an underage schoolgirl and he was her teacher. They have been happily married for years, so abuse is difficult to define.

I do not want to make loads more work for Tim in posting stories, but I can appreciate what andypaz said when he kicked off the thread. If each story contained a synopsis and perhaps a simple categorisation then andypaz and his friends may have chosen not to read the story before ever they reached the bits they didn't like.

Possibly I'm a rebel and anti-authoritarian at heart, but I really do think the age of consent is unimportant, 18 is, excuse me for saying, ridiculous. Governments in some countries have been considering giving the vote to 16 year olds. Still it's a hot potato, but authors should be allowed to explore these areas freely, we do not need literary censorship and book burning! 

Finally, I actually appreciate Tim's benign dictatorship approach to publishing stories and one has to give credit, where credit is due, he has done a pretty damned good job over a number of years of publishing gay and some not so gay books.

--

The concept of a synopsis is something Megaman and I considered. We rejected it for reasons which include:
  • Very few authors can write a good synopsis of their stories, even when complete
  • Many stories are incomplete in the author's head when serialisation starts
  • A short story tends to be the synopsis
  • On a book jacket the synopsis is a selling mechanism. It is intended to make you spend money
  • The site contains a huge number of tales. Creating a synopsis for all is a task that no-one will attempt
  • Some authors are dead. Who will create their synopses?
  • There is no space on the author's index page for a synposis
  • While we are "better than Nifty" and other sites, Nifty does not create a synopsis. INStead it relies on usually a pretty poorly represented title
  • A generic synopsis for almost all our tales is "Boy meets boy > Boy loses biy > Boy goes through a seemingly impossible quest to find boy again > boy meets boy propery this time and they live happily ever after.
  • There is no possibility of an automated process to create a synopsis
  • When I write my own stories I have absolutely no interest in creating a synopsis. Read 'em, or not. Be pleased, or not. Sto[ after a short way, or not. It's immaterial to me

The reasons for one are "But I want one!" which fails to convince me (the "I" is a generic "I", especially against that list of negatives). It didn't convince me when the site was new, either.

With regard to categories, well, they are 99.999% about young folk having adventures with romance being the major element.

Age of consent:

Age of consent in Wikipedia suggests that the USA does not have a uniform age of consent. The map is interesting.

I have discussed age of consent on the site. I still hold that view.

[Updated on: Mon, 21 August 2017 17:00]




Inconsistent use of capital letters is the difference between Bobby helping Uncle Jack off a horse, AND Bobby helping uncle jack off a horse!
Re: The observer - Rafael Henry  [message #73254 is a reply to message #73249] Tue, 22 August 2017 02:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mark   United States

Really getting into it
Location: Earth
Registered: April 2013
Messages: 763



"William King wrote on Mon, 21 August 2017 10:10"
I do not want to make loads more work for Tim in posting stories, but I can appreciate what andypaz said when he kicked off the thread. If each story contained a synopsis and perhaps a simple categorisation then andypaz and his friends may have chosen not to read the story before ever they reached the bits they didn't like.

Possibly I'm a rebel and anti-authoritarian at heart, but I really do think the age of consent is unimportant, 18 is, excuse me for saying, ridiculous. Governments in some countries have been considering giving the vote to 16 year olds. Still it's a hot potato, but authors should be allowed to explore these areas freely, we do not need literary censorship and book burning!


--

For a time I was tempted to suggest to Timmy that he put some sort of classification indicator next to each story to denote what (non-romantic) genre it fell into - historical, sci-fi/fantasy, etc.  That way people who like certain genres (I'm a sucker for both science fiction and fantasy, myself) or who wanted to avoid certain areas (such as Andypaz and his friends wanting to avoid adult/youth and thriller) would have at least a general idea of what the story was about without having to spend time reading it first.  The one thing that always kept me from doing that was the realization that such a proposal was certainly easy for me to make, since, after all, I wouldn't be the one to actually have to do all the work involved in trying to pull that off if it were to be accepted (even before Timmy's most recent post in this thread, I did figure out pretty quickly that there are no small amount of stories already on this site).

As an interesting note, I remember reading that the nation with the lowest voting age in the world is the Philippines, which has it set at 14!  It is interesting that we set age of consent at so many different levels.  In the U.S., you can generally have a full driver's license at age 16 (while sometimes there might be some restrictions, such as not being allowed passengers or only being allowed one adult passenger if that person has a driver's license, you can still drive on your own), and you can have a limited-use driver's permit at 15 (among other things, you are required to have an adult passenger with a full driver's license in the front passenger seat, but again, you're the one actually operating the vehicle).  In some areas (particularly agricultural areas) the age is, from my understanding, sometimes as young as 14 (in order to be able to operate farming vehicles).  So it's interesting that in some places you are allowed to operate a motor vehicle that could severely injure or even kill someone before you're allowed to give consent to having sex (either at all or with someone over the age of 18).
Re: The observer - Rafael Henry  [message #73256 is a reply to message #73254] Tue, 22 August 2017 09:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
William King is currently offline  William King   France

Toe is in the water

Registered: October 2016
Messages: 34



Allow me to disagree with you Tim, and let me take the points you make one by one:

The concept of a synopsis is something Megaman and I considered. We rejected it for reasons which include:

Very few authors can write a good synopsis of their stories, even when complete

Kind of condescending I believe just a couple of lines about a story is better than nothing at all

Many stories are incomplete in the author's head when serialisation starts
But you know what the story is about, Sci-fi, historical, vampires

A short story tends to be the synopsis
Agreed, short stories do not need summarising.

On a book jacket the synopsis is a selling mechanism. It is intended to make you spend money
I enjoy browsing bookshelves in libraries and bookshops, I pick out a book, looking at the title, the cover, and reading the summary on the jacket.

The site contains a huge number of tales. Creating a synopsis for all is a task that no-one will attempt
You simply add a summary to new stories.

Some authors are dead. Who will create their synopses?
Same as stated previously, for new stories.

There is no space on the author's index page for a synposis
Yes there is, you included a YouTube video and a few words on my own home page.

While we are "better than Nifty" and other sites, Nifty does not create a synopsis. INStead it relies on usually a pretty poorly represented title
Irrelevant, many other sites provide summaries, I would not model my site on Nifty.

A generic synopsis for almost all our tales is "Boy meets boy > Boy loses biy > Boy goes through a seemingly impossible quest to find boy again > boy meets boy propery this time and they live happily ever after.
I am referring to the genre, vampires, elves, reality, crime etc.

There is no possibility of an automated process to create a synopsis
You ask authors to submit a summary with their story or you write a few lines yourself You or someone reads them before publication.

When I write my own stories I have absolutely no interest in creating a synopsis. Read 'em, or not. Be pleased, or not. Sto[ after a short way, or not. It's immaterial to me
Fine, but it isn't about you, it is about your readers, and making a better reading experience by allowing them to choose what to read with some notion of what the story might be.

Re: The observer - Rafael Henry  [message #73262 is a reply to message #73256] Tue, 22 August 2017 18:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
timmy   United Kingdom

Has no life at all
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 12893



I do not have the time to do the extra work as a matter of course. Like all things I have made exceptions.

Every extra item on the author's page that is not a story itself is a whole new file. Doing it any other way interferes with our content managemenbt system. Doing it before the story is published is not easy. Doing it afterwards is a labour I do not intend to get into.

Please don't confuse my doing something as a kindness as my being able to or wishing to  do it continually. These things are not simple to implement. If i do them manually I can make them look nice, but I feel that my having done things in the past is being held against me.

So, to be abundantly clear. No. Neither synopses not categories are going to happen. I have a life outside the site. It takes up far too much of my time already. Megaman will not amend the CMS any further. He, too, has a life outside the site.

The extra work I do take on is the writing challenges. I have a load of manual work to do for each of those.

Forgive me if this comes across in any way as rude. It is not intended to. Rather, it is intended to be a definitive statement. These things are not going to happen.

[Updated on: Tue, 22 August 2017 21:45]




Inconsistent use of capital letters is the difference between Bobby helping Uncle Jack off a horse, AND Bobby helping uncle jack off a horse!
Re: The observer - Rafael Henry  [message #73268 is a reply to message #73254] Wed, 23 August 2017 16:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Andichan is currently offline  Andichan   United Kingdom

Getting started
Location: Hillmorton UK
Registered: December 2014
Messages: 16



Drawing attention to Mark's comments regarding age of consent.
Sorry, Mark, if my observations stereotype you, but having spent many years traveling and working in the US, I found that most people I met believe that laws around the globe relating to most things runs in parallel to those of the United States.

I would point out that there are many countries within the EU where the age of consent is lower than sixteen; fourteen, whilst not common, is on statute, and in one country, thirteen is acceptable.

Africa goes from one extreme to the other.
There are counties where any same-sex relationship is outlawed, and the penalties for being found in breach of them are massive. But then you have countries that never passed any legislation, - ipso facto, - you can do what you like.
There are countries in the Middle East where sex with animals is fine (so long as they're of the opposite sex... of course!)

Before I begin a story, I spend what seems like a lifetime researching the detail that I'm not fully conversant with. 
I make mistakes; we all make mistakes, but might I suggest that in future you do your research before committing yourself to paper?



Andy.
Re: The observer - Rafael Henry  [message #73269 is a reply to message #73268] Thu, 24 August 2017 01:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mark   United States

Really getting into it
Location: Earth
Registered: April 2013
Messages: 763



Quote:
Andichan wrote on Wed, 23 August 2017 10:04Drawing attention to Mark's comments regarding age of consent.
Sorry, Mark, if my observations stereotype you, but having spent many years traveling and working in the US, I found that most people I met believe that laws around the globe relating to most things runs in parallel to those of the United States.

I would point out that there are many countries within the EU where the age of consent is lower than sixteen; fourteen, whilst not common, is on statute, and in one country, thirteen is acceptable.

Africa goes from one extreme to the other.
There are counties where any same-sex relationship is outlawed, and the penalties for being found in breach of them are massive. But then you have countries that never passed any legislation, - ipso facto, - you can do what you like.
There are countries in the Middle East where sex with animals is fine (so long as they're of the opposite sex... of course!)

Before I begin a story, I spend what seems like a lifetime researching the detail that I'm not fully conversant with.
I make mistakes; we all make mistakes, but might I suggest that in future you do your research before committing yourself to paper?

--

It is indeed good to do research before commenting.  It's also good to read what's actually written right in front of you before commenting as well.

I never once claimed I was referring to the whole world when talking about age of consent, as mentioned right in the beginning of the second sentence of the second paragraph.  I started off by saying "In the U.S...." (emphasis added).  Never once did I indicate that I was referring to any other country's laws (with the exception of the previous sentence, referring to the voting age in the Philippines), which is again, to a certain extent, reiterated in the first few words of the last sentence: "In some places..." (emphasis added).
Re: The observer - Rafael Henry  [message #73274 is a reply to message #73269] Thu, 24 August 2017 16:32 Go to previous message
timmy   United Kingdom

Has no life at all
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 12893



Ok, boys. One hand grenade apiece is your limit. Smile



Inconsistent use of capital letters is the difference between Bobby helping Uncle Jack off a horse, AND Bobby helping uncle jack off a horse!
Previous Topic: Fair notice!
Next Topic: Another Life by Andrew Foote
Goto Forum: