|
|
warren c. e. austin
|
 |
Likes it here |
Location: Toronto, Ontario, CANADA
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 247
|
|
|
Mihangel
You're aware from prior comments I've made in another time and another place the impact that your story "Xenophilia" has had on my person.
Amazingly another, born too out of remover's van, should be destined to have even more.
Heart and mind soar in unison whilst embracing the fullness, and rightness - and yes, Lord knows, righteousness - of Luke and Joe's closing embrace; this in as much as do your chosen attributed musical elements threaded and woven, intricately as they are, through the essential inner fabric of the tale.
Maesto! Turn and face the audience, and take your due.
Bask in the accolades swirling about you.
I grant you well-deserved praise for a job supremely well-done.
Warren C. E. Austin
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Guest
|
 |
On fire! |
Registered: March 2012
Messages: 2344
|
|
|
An alternative view.
I failed to finish it. I found the characterisation left me gasping. This is a 1950s tale set in 2002. Modern nutrition would have prevented Luke's bodily state from being so slow to mature. And a non ejaculating 13 y/o is unlikely to have the remainder of the sexually aggresive hormones flying round his body.
Where did the unpleasant father fit in? A character with no relevance to the plot, just gratuitous second hand violence.
Sorry. Yuck. Try again Merlin, try again.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
timmy
|
 |
Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
|
|
|
I wonder how one simply resolves differing taste. Perhaps that is why I never write a public review of any stories here
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
warren c. e. austin
|
|
Likes it here |
Location: Toronto, Ontario, CANADA
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 247
|
|
|
"orogeny" is valid in making his views known regarding both the source story, and my review.
I too, saw these same issues, with Mihangel's tale, but I (as you are personally aware, because you and I discussed this) chose to ignore them, focusing instead on its' underlying "basic" premise, and whether the author had sufficiently been able to fulfill the promise inspired by that premise.
I feel that he has; but then again, others may not.
Of course, seen from a much larger canvas, we have too, the question of the morality of of all parties tacit acceptance of sexual interaction between the two, and their age disparity. My feeling on this being that so long as it is consensual, and with the blessings of the parents, so what. If both youths were each as little as five years older, we wouldn't probably bat an eye-lash over the four-year difference in age; we certainly don't if both are in their 20's, or 30's or more.
Warren C. E. Austin
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
smith
|
|
On fire! |
Registered: January 1970
Messages: 1095
|
|
|
It is Terrific to get feedback that your story is good or fun or makes the reader think.......I have.
It is NOT terrific to get feedback that your story is sickeningly sweet vomitous drivel......I have.
Why make negative comments on a public MB? What exactly is gained?
GH
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
warren c. e. austin
|
|
Likes it here |
Location: Toronto, Ontario, CANADA
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 247
|
|
|
My comments to an Author about a story featured and hosted through this site, are only made when some element of the tale has either favourably stirred a distant memory of mine, or should the Author have excelled in his presentation.
I would never dream of *posting* a derogatory, or insulting comment through the media of this Message Board.
I decided when I first *posted* one of my reviews, that I would treat all of our Authors with equinamity, and only make comment where such comment was truly warranted. I decided, too, that my comments such as they are - and all members and otherwise of the constituency this Message Board may take them or leave them according to their own particular tastes and views of this matter - would only ever be publically *posted*, declining to e-Mail the Authors directly. I have broken this tenet only once in my time here at "A place of Safety", this being very recently, and for reasons known only to the Author involved, and myself. It is highly unlikely that I would ever do so again. The circumstances of my having done so were especially unique and demanded that I do so.
Warren C. E. Austin
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
e
|
|
On fire! |
Location: currently So Cal
Registered: May 2002
Messages: 1179
|
|
|
Some of the negative ones may be hard to take, but I don't mind as long as the reviewer isn't personally attacking me. Comments, both public and private, have had an effect on the outcome of later chapters of Lion's Den.
I was told my characters weren't very likeable, so I tried to concentrate on characterization. I was going to have Joey be the one who committed suicide, but people began writing about how he had become their favorite character, so I changed my mind. And when Chris committed suicide, I got lots of angry emails. Some people thought the story wasn't believeable because the police weren't involved, I involved them. I was criticized for not putting in enough sex in the last couple chapters, the next chapter will contain one (most likely if I ever finish writing it). One guy seemed to think I was too much of a bleeding heart because Mike was talked out of suicide and I included phone numbers and websites of suicide hotlines, I discussed it with him. There are probably other examples that I'm overlooking.
The point is that sometimes I've agreed, my story could be better. Other times I will simply disagree and write what I want. If everyone liked everything I write, it would probably be vomitous drivel. Then again if no one liked it, I doubt I would post it.
Take the comments for what they are, smith. Comments, nothing more, nothing less. Ignore personal attacks or flames. People that make such attacks don't need to be given your time, unless you really have a need to respond. If enough people think your story is sickeningly sweet, consider adding some conflict or controversy. If you'd prefer not to add it into this story, perhaps you can consider it in the next one.
Personally, part of the reason I like your story is that it is sweet. I like the innocence of your characters and the awe and wonder of their love and romance. Sometimes I want to read a story that makes me feel good and I appreciate those who can write that kind of story. I don't do that very well. My stories are likely to run a gamut of emotion. Readers will feel good sometimes and horrible sometimes. But not all stories need to be like that. Some need to be happy, some sad, some angry, etc. Take your readers into account, but in the end, write what you want.
And as for those of you who want to write reviews, you can make mine public or private, regardless of whether it's good or bad. It may make me happy, it may hurt, but as long as it's not a flame, it is appreciated.
Think good thoughts,
e
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
e
|
|
On fire! |
Location: currently So Cal
Registered: May 2002
Messages: 1179
|
|
|
Who really knows why some folks have that need, but it isn't necessarily a bad thing. Once the comment is public, it gives others a chance to respond to the comment. You can now see several things. 1. Whether anyone else cares about the comment. 2. whether others agree. 3. Whether other disagree. Such comments can be validated or invalidated by the way others see them. If you become the recipient of such a comment, you can now receive input from several sources making even more of a learning experience. It may be embarrassing, humiliating, maddening, or frustrating, but it does have it's advantages.
Think oggd thoughts,
e
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
e
|
|
On fire! |
Location: currently So Cal
Registered: May 2002
Messages: 1179
|
|
|
Simply by hosting a story on your site you have given a public review. You may not be making specific comments, but you are saying the work meets your high standards.
think good thoughts,
e
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Speaking as a writer myself (although the last time I posted a new chapter of any of my three stories may be an occasion which is dimming in people's memories...) I agree with much of what e says. I think any writer appreciates comments and interchange about their work, whether lively debate and disagreement or simply discussion.
One of my stories is more "on the edge" and was one of the causes of an unfortunate flame war on another MB a while ago, and that was over the top. But otherwise, the debate is interesting and enlightening, as e has said.
smith, it's normal to feel readers' comments as made personally somehow. But mostly the people who write to you don't know you, so it isn't personal, not really.
I got told off when some people thought my "Holding On For Dear Life" was too sweet or that one set of parents were unbelievably nice. I got told off when some thought "Larry's Love" was warped. So youse pays yer money and takes yer choice, I guess.
All I know is that the first 2 posts about Mihangel's newest story got me to go right over and read it.
No such thing as bad PR, right?
(BTW, Mihangel...Xenophilia is still my favorite of yours!)
"Always forgive your enemies...nothing annoys them quite so much." Oscar Wilde
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
In what respect do you think that Luke's bodily state is "so slow to mature"? He seems perfectly normal to me.
What would you say to any 13 year-olds reading this who may be worried by your comments?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
timmy
|
|
Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
|
|
|
I suspect the less than forthcoming poster made a valid enough point (for him/her at least) in his post story wise, but probably not a useful one in medical terms.
Looking at development, puberty seems to start earlier nowadays and good nutrition is often creditted with that "enhancement" to life.
Actual production of fluid, which may or may not contain semen, often starts well before other obvious external signs of puberty. "often" does not mean "always".
It is thus likely, but not certain, that at 13 dry ejaculations are a thing of the past, but that do not necessarily contain viable semen, even if "wet"
To anyone concerned about this aspect of development I suggest the following resource: The Global Cyber Clinic, which opens in a new window.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Since you failed to finish it, you are hardly qualified to review it.
Not every charactor in every story needs to be "Joe average" (sorry, couldn't help the funny connection).
If this story does not fit into the mold of a story for you, sure does not mean it has no merit.
I for one, found the story entertaining, thoughtfull and not exactly in "my world". I looked at that as a good thing. You need to read with better eyes. Ones that might realize that your station in life is not the only one that exsist.
I don't mean to sound as nasty as your post did to me, if I did I apologize.
Kevin
"Be excellent to each other, and, party on dudes"!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I am a little protective of my family, so I do apologize.
I need to allow views that I don't like just like I would hope people would do for me.
I guess I lashed back because it seemed to me to be more like an attack than a point of view.
Again, I was wrong, but I did say what i felt,
Kevin
"Be excellent to each other, and, party on dudes"!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
timmy
|
|
Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
|
|
|
It is the same as a story or poem etc being posted here. That is a review in itself.
It wasn't a nice review. I think we can agree on that. But, if reviews are to be placed here, rather than thanks for a new story, or ignoring the story if it was not liked, I think it has merit as a review per se. After all, it was no better and no worse than a Uriah Heap style of review. Please God we get none of those! And it was to the point.
I still am unsure of the "place" a literary review has on a messageboard. As I said before, reviews are dangerous.
Take, for example, any random story written by a friend, and find that you just do not like it. What do you do? If reviews are to be meat and drink here, then you go to the story, deconstruct it, and post a review here. You may decide (as in mine) that grammar, syntax and punctiation leave a lot to be desired, and pillory me for short sentences. You may look at others and destroy them because the literary style is not as you wish. I loathe Jane Eyre. Or do I loathe Jane Austen (Austin?). Did one write the other?
And what you do is take a risk of losing a friend, or of having others round on you as Kevin has had the right to do (though I would wish for a more measured approach, Kevin - attack the behaviour, not the man! Now don't you dare take offence at that or I shall have to fly over and spank you).
Or, I suppose, you take on a pen name, and piss us all off, as the poster who angered Kevin has done
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
timmy
|
|
Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
|
|
|
I think I mentioned how it might have been done better in my reply to your lambast above:)
Don't you dare take offence at it.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
mihangel
|
|
Likes it here |
Location: UK
Registered: July 2002
Messages: 192
|
|
|
I've not even looked at the MB for quite a while. Now a friend's tipped me the wink, and I come back to find myself the unwitting origin of a big debate. So perhaps I'd better stick my oar in, first by saying "thank you" to those on one side and "fair enough" to those on the other.
I write stories primarily for my own benefit, to release things from deep inside me which want to come out; and secondarily to send out messages which I think or hope might be of value or interest to others, and with luck entertain them in the process. Sometimes I realise that my thoughts will appeal to nobody, and they go no further. If I do feel they may be valuable or interesting, then they're embedded in a story, polished up, and offered to timmy. If he approves (and he's never turned one down yet), out it goes into the public eye. If it pleases or helps just one single reader, then I feel the exercise is justified.
By publishing, any writer is automatically open to criticism, good or bad. He's fair game. He may disagree with adverse criticism or dislike how it's put, but he can't object to it being made. If he doesn't want negative feedback, he shouldn't publish. Therefore I don't in the least mind what Orogeny said. No writers can please all readers all the time. Our style, settings, content are individual to us, and all readers differ in their tastes. I'm just like Orogeny. There are a number of stories on this site (not to mention Nifty!) that I too have given up reading part-way through because I've found them too this or too that for my taste.
I don't, myself, tell the authors so, privately or publicly. Getting their stories out of their system has probably done them good, as mine have done me. They've no doubt got readers aplenty, as I have, who do enjoy them. Who am I to belittle them or their readers? Live and let live. We don't write to win Bookers or Pulitzers, or to make our fortune. We write - or at least I write - for our own selves, and hopefully to help and please others. Orogeny's comments won't make me change my style or my approach, simply because he's in a minority of one against the large number who've already mailed their approval of both.
And I do feel that emails are the right way to respond to authors. Reviews on this board are a very recent innovation; and I'm not comfortable with them. Not because one has slated me, but for all the reasons in the last para. I will never contribute one myself, positive or negative.
Another point that's been raised. Let's face it, almost ALL our stories contain a greater or lesser element of the improbable. To my mind, those that verge on the probable tend, with very few exceptions, to be the least satisfying and the least instructive. That's precisely why I deliberately drew my characters and plot as I did, and why I said in the preamble: "Some may find this tale larger than life. Very true. If one has messages to put across, it can be more effective that way." I really believe that's the case. Bury one's messages in a more mundane tale, and fewer readers will find them.
BTW, it IS perfectly possible, even in this day and age, for a 13-year-old to be at Luke's stage of physical development. I won't say how I know that, but I do.
Mihangel
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
timmy
|
|
Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
|
|
|
Actually I have taken one point and am highlighting it.And I do feel that emails are the right way to respond to authors. Reviews on this board are a very recent innovation; and I'm not comfortable with them.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
timmy
|
|
Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
|
|
|
I presse post too soon. I intended to ameliorate that with someting or other. Regret that I forgot what. 
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
marc
|
 |
Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
|
|
|
You know something, in this tiny microcosm we all live in we find that in many cases we NEED to say things. This need may be precipitated by reasons known only to the author and presented more often tham not for reasons only they can fathom.
Thier work needs no critism. A polite acknowledgment if you feel the work struck a nerve, EVEN if it was a sore nerve.
And there is an old cliché, "If you can do better, do it."
There is a keyboard right there in front of you....
Marc
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
marc
|
|
Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
|
|
|
Privatly, on a personal level, critisism, even of an acerbic nature can be easily handled.
BUT, when it is taken into the public forum it becomes fuel for ridicule.
I know this is seldon the intent of the origional poster, but he/she has no control over subsequent responces.
Marc
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Timmy while I agree I went to far, I reacted out of my respect to the author. I did not mean to attack orogeny personally. For that I am truely sorry.
I will not hide behind a pen name to speak on the MB things I might be ashamed to say. That is just not me. For all of you, with me what you see is what you get, just me. Faults an all.
orogeny has the right to his opinion, and I should have calmed down a bit before my post. You will notice my next post came shortly after, with an apology.
I do urge everyone here, including myself, not to attack others. And the language we use when we expess a negative opinion, can often sound a little personal.
I for one, love a good debate. I like when people disagree and express an intelligent argument. I am not so dense as to think I have a monopoly on what is correct. So if you think I am full of %$@*! ..... say so. I will make my case, and listen to yours.
All my best to all of you,
(that inludes you too orogeny)
Kevin
"Be excellent to each other, and, party on dudes"!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
In my best Rodney King impersonation
***Can't we all just get along ... sniffle***
Be well,
Kevin
"Be excellent to each other, and, party on dudes"!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
mihangel
|
|
Likes it here |
Location: UK
Registered: July 2002
Messages: 192
|
|
|
... that, in my opinion, we're talking not only about negative reviews but positive ones too. It seems illogical to frown on one but not the other. And positive reviews may stimulate negative ones, as in this case. Please, please, everyone who's said kind things about my story, don't take this as a slap in the face. I'm truly grateful. But while I welcome any comments by email, favourable or not, I'm uneasy about them, favourable or not, here in public. And I'm not talking only about my own stories, either.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
timmy
|
|
Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
|
|
|
"Great story, mate!" is sufficient public praise 
I did miskey to get my distaste for reviews SO large. But what the heck!
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
|
|
|
|
|
Goto Forum:
|
] 
A Place of Safety
Search
Help
Register
Login
Home
now those two messages show the danger of reviews 
Story Reviews 
Re: You know, failing to finish is a review in itself 
