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I expect simple behaviours here. Friendship, and love. Any advice should be from the perspective of the person asking, not the person giving! We have had to make new membership moderated to combat the huge number of spammers who register
Homosexuality is not lawful in India after all
https://forum.iomfats.org/./mv/msg/8434/68180/#msg_68180
The Times of India, where the Supreme Court has reversed a 2009 High Court decision. This is obviosuly terrifying for the large number of Indian homosexuals now in open relationships. While the law may be being interpreted correctly, it is not a humane decision.]]>timmy2013-12-11T08:48:30-00:00Re: Homosexuality is not lawful in India after all
https://forum.iomfats.org/./mv/msg/8434/68183/#msg_68183
I don't even know why we try anymore.]]>Smokr2013-12-11T22:10:27-00:00Re: Homosexuality is not lawful in India after all
https://forum.iomfats.org/./mv/msg/8434/68185/#msg_68185
http://news.yahoo.com/honeymoon-over-gay-couples-australia-o verturns-same-sex-022923661.html]]>Smokr2013-12-12T15:52:05-00:00Re: Homosexuality is not lawful in India after all
https://forum.iomfats.org/./mv/msg/8434/68189/#msg_68189
When we see injustice our righteous indignation makes us want to do something. There is a tendency to think that doing anything is better than doing nothing. However, doing certain things may actually make things worse. So it's a good idea to try to think things out before jumping into action.
For example, when protesting about anti-gay laws in India and thinking about campaigning against them, it's advisable to ask:
1) will the source of the protests make them counterproductive?
and
2) will the arguments used in the campaign actually be likely to work?
1) How would British MPs react if American wrote to them to lobby against our strict gun controls? How would US lawmakers react if Muslims around the world lobbied them to adopt Sharia laws? Foreigners putting pressure on Indian lawmakers to change their anti-gay laws may be counterproductive, especially as it was one set of foreigners (the British) who imposed the laws in the first place.
Rather than lobbying Indian lawmakers, wouldn't it be more productive to use our time and efforts to support, help, and advise the LGBT people in India so that they can effectively campaign inside their own country?
2) Adults program infants and children to find certain things disgusting. For example, in some parts of the world eating insects is perfectly normal, but just the thought of it makes me nauseous. There are good reasons why eating insects may be considered a good thing but no amount of logical argument will stop me feeling disgust at the mere thought of it.
Similarly, there are certain sexual activities (gay or straight) that I find distasteful, disturbing, or even disgusting. That's probably related to my programing when I was an infant. No logical argument could stop me feeling disgusted, but I am easily persuaded that what consenting adults do in private is none of my business. So if Indian lawmakers believe that homosexual acts are unnatural and disgusting there is no point in trying to persuade them that those acts are normal and wholesome. Instead, the argument should be that the sexual activities of consenting adults in private are not appropriate subjects for legislation.]]>Kitzyma2013-12-19T07:51:00-00:00Re: Homosexuality is not lawful in India after all
https://forum.iomfats.org/./mv/msg/8434/68190/#msg_68190
Be in India for a moment, and be an open and out legal, law abiding gay man. Now watch as you become illegal again, and become subject to blackmail from your neighbour, who has always hated you because of some trivial reason.]]>timmy2013-12-19T08:50:32-00:00Re: Homosexuality is not lawful in India after all
https://forum.iomfats.org/./mv/msg/8434/68191/#msg_68191
Quote:
timmy wrote on Thu, 19 December 2013 08:50I see your point of view. However, the time has come for the world to tell those who do not adopt full human rights for all people that the only way to be a member of the civilised world is to adopt those rights.
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And what if foreigners being confrontational and telling the what to do puts their backs up, sets them on the defensive, and makes them decide not to change because they don't want to be seen as being subservient by giving in external pressure?
India is a growing political and economic power in the world and it was civilised long before any of the Western nations who are criticising it now. In their view they are already a member of the civilised world and anyone trying to exclude them will be cutting off their nose to spite their face. Furthermore, it was the so-called 'civilised' British who imposed their own morality on India by making homosexuality illegal. After all, it gay sex was illegal here less than fifty years ago and we're only now about to get the full equality of gay marriage. So it may seem to them rather hypocritical for us to lecture them about it now and to try to impose our newly-revised morality on them.
Of course, I share the goal of getting rid of discrimination and having full human rights in India. I realise that there is a sense of injustice, frustration, and anger about the apparent reversal of the previous more tolerant situation. However, it is important to consider whether or not righteous indignation might lead to counterproductive actions.
Another thing to bear in mind is that the previous tolerant situation, in which it was illegal but the law wasn't enforced, was both illogical and in the long term unviable. The only way to have full rights is to change the law. While there law wasn't being enforced there was less incentive to change it. So maybe the change to a lack of toleration will have a long term beneficial effect in that it will bring about a more rapid change in the law.]]>Kitzyma2013-12-19T09:45:55-00:00Re: Homosexuality is not lawful in India after all
https://forum.iomfats.org/./mv/msg/8434/68192/#msg_68192
timmy2013-12-19T11:14:15-00:00Supreme Court of India
https://forum.iomfats.org/./mv/msg/8434/68196/#msg_68196
]]>kiwi2013-12-19T21:22:04-00:00Re: Supreme Court of India
https://forum.iomfats.org/./mv/msg/8434/68197/#msg_68197
timmy2013-12-19T21:41:43-00:00Re: Supreme Court of India
https://forum.iomfats.org/./mv/msg/8434/68198/#msg_68198
Smokr2013-12-20T05:18:11-00:00Re: Homosexuality is not lawful in India after all
https://forum.iomfats.org/./mv/msg/8434/68205/#msg_68205
turned back from the death penalty by world indignation. Now we only face life imprisonment if we are stupid enough to visit this backward nation that still fears the wrath of some invented deity. This was also caused by the intervention of two nations. The first was the UK who colonised the world and imposed christianity on it and the morals of the oppressor, and the seocnd was the USA with its tub thumping evangelical brand of global colonisation.
As Uganda was recovering from the first it was swept by the second.
So I will do my best to intervene in India. And if that pisses some halfwit politicians off then it will piss them off. Alone we are useless. Together we are irresistible.
I correspond regularly with an Indian teenager who came out to his parents about 9 months ago having met me via the forum or the story section. Can I let him down by ignoring his plight?]]>timmy2013-12-21T10:42:42-00:00