A Place of Safety - RDF feed
https://forum.iomfats.org/
I expect simple behaviours here. Friendship, and love. Any advice should be from the perspective of the person asking, not the person giving! We have had to make new membership moderated to combat the huge number of spammers who register
A time for reaffirmation
https://forum.iomfats.org/./mv/msg/8670/69900/#msg_69900
I have always thought some gay people had unique qualities in the arts because they were alienated from the culture at large, not because being gay was special.
But you are right, with the move to main stream many have become just regular folk.
The forum is the heart beat of a site. It is what draws people in because they feel like they can be a part of it. You might have to do some PR here. A sycophant is only a sycophant when they are found out, but something is better than nothing.
From what I have discovered from writer sites is that, me included, they all want acknowledgement, they want to see their stuff in print and they desperately want feed-back and just a little stroking. For this they must give back a little and support each other.
Timmy, I can see that you have worked very hard because you are always there to add to a thread and prime it with a post but you need help from your core group. Show them this letter,
When you first started out, gay issues especially with youth were important and constituted a good deal of your base. What has changed is that middle class and above are enjoying tolerance and acceptance and even marriage. They still need help and understanding.
But, what has also changed, maybe more in the US, is a huge increase in grinding poverty, chromic unemployment and homeless gay youth from single parent homes and laws that criminalize gay youth and it is getting worse. In spite of all that, they will be online using cheap hand-helds and we need to hear from them. Stop for a minute and try to imagine yourself homeless. It can be crushing.
When you started this site, it was because you wanted to help. Well, here it is.
Larkin]]>larkin2015-07-12T10:16:03-00:00Re: A time for reaffirmation
https://forum.iomfats.org/./mv/msg/8670/69902/#msg_69902
]]>timmy2015-07-12T10:59:11-00:00Re: A time for reaffirmation
https://forum.iomfats.org/./mv/msg/8670/69904/#msg_69904
The colors are, well... odd. Green and tan? Not even a nice green, or a warm tan. But a kind of weak, sickly-grass green, and a pale, dead-flesh tan.
The mechanics of the design are rather clunky as well. The front page is not very attractive. The links across the top and on the left are basic text, like what's been used for decades, and looks and feels old-fashioned and clunky. The simple, square outlay is also rather cold and unwelcoming. There isn't anything warm or alluring. Not a single image, other than the adorable logo. It's the only redeeming factor.
The site just feels old. It always did. I didn't come here because of how it looked though, as I'd already read the authors here and didn't care what it looked like. I liked the content and the owner. How it appeared never mattered to me. I just ignored it.
But when you want to attract new members, you have to appeal visually, particularly if they aren't already coming for the content.
Folks want someplace that looks and feels clean and efficient, warm and welcoming, and generally colorful without being garish. Somewhere where you can easily find what you're looking for, and somewhere that is easy to navigate. Bells and whistles count. Folks get taken away by the flashier sites with good color schemes and interesting graphics. Especially when they can find the same stories there. More people are attracted there, and that attracts more people.
The forum layout is also old-fashioned. There are only two forum sections. General Talk, and Literary Merit. That gives the impression of little content, and not much to do. Have a look at the more popular sites, and you'll see dozens of forum categories. You'll also see a more friendly and usable layout, with more options and doo-dads. There's a reason they call FUD "Fucked, Ugly, and Dumb"
Have a look at the more 'active' and 'busier' sites with similar content and see what they have in common that isn't present in the lesser used places.
Things like more varied colors, buttons instead of text links, user images on forum listings, Facebook/Twitter/Google+ links, chat rooms, and gallery images.
Lastly, you sell the place as a place of safety. Statistically, a small percentage of people are looking for a place of safety. Most are looking for a place to have fun, meet others, read stories, and spend some free time. If you only appeal to the small percentage, you generally only get the small percentage.
I think you're aiming for a dichotomy that can't exist: A place for those to go who have questions and concerns and need a place of safety, and a place where a lot of people visit regularly for fun and chat and stories. Either you run a "Place of Safety" for those in need of it, or you run a "story site." Trying to have both puts both in a position of not being dedicated to. Who wants to visit a place that seems to not be dedicated to its mission? "A place of safety" should have threads and posts about common problems and solutions, where to find help, and what to do - not stories about romance and threads about politics and news.
A place of safety implies a place where troubled youth can find refuge. That's not a place most want to frequent. Its a laudable and important mission, and we need such places. But they aren't busy and lively. They should be dedicated to helping, not also providing recreational stories.
By trying to provide both, you water down both missions, and render them undesirable. New visitors don't know what to think when they find this place.
Person A thinks: "A place of safety? I don't need that. I want to find a place with folks to talk to, chat with, stories to read, and things to do."
Person B thinks: "A place of safety? How safe is a place that has stories about teenagers?"
Person C thinks: "A place of safety? I want advice and help, but do I want it from guys who write these stories?"
All three end up confused and concerned, and going somewhere else that is more definitely what they want. And they get grabbed by the colors, the images, and the vast amount of content. Even when the many forum categories may be very empty in real content, the images, colors, layout, and the impression of tons of content grabs them, and even takes them away if they posted here a few times and even liked the responses they recieved. ]]>Smokr2015-07-13T05:04:45-00:00Re: A time for reaffirmation
https://forum.iomfats.org/./mv/msg/8670/69916/#msg_69916
You could be right on all of these points or maybe just some of these points, but this is all up to Timmy. A makeover wouldn't be out of the question but more importantly is redefinition of its purpose and what this site has to offer.
The best and most important efforts would be external efforts in the form of links and posts outside of this site.
I must be honest that I have been spending time on the AwesomeDudes site where they encourage young inexperience writers to post flash and help in editing and an open area for posting. The forum is larger and more importantly, active. They don't censor but they accept or reject material for the protection of the site.
Timmy, after 18 years you should be proud but perhaps with revolution on the horizon, it does need a paint job. Get young people to come on to tell their story. ]]>larkin2015-07-13T12:29:37-00:00Re: A time for reaffirmation
https://forum.iomfats.org/./mv/msg/8670/69918/#msg_69918
We have carefully avoided any form of "submit your story here and we'll judge it" because that also implies that it is fit for the site and might be acceptable as a published story.
I also avoid like the plague the sycophantic forums / story comments I have seen elsewhere.
Links and posts outside the site are a lovely idea, ideally to content deep within the site and especially the forum. Links to a home page are, broadly, useless. I do not do link exchange. That results in an immediate reduction in SERP position. I will link to a good site myself, and others will link to me. Feel free to encourage them to do so and to make your own posts with relevant links as the target.
There is no revolution on the horizon. There is simply a far greater number of diverse sites today which have different interests, centred around homosexual matters, usually with stories attached. The quality of some of those sites makes me despair of the webmasters. Some saw what we do here and started their own site. We were one of the first to encourage new talent. I submit that we are the best in the niche today.
It is the forum that is lacking activity. Historically that has been activity from gay youth, sometimes those pretending to be gay youth, asking about growing up, being gay, finding a partner. That was pre Grindr!
Today's teenagers are not the same as those of 10 years ago. Mostly, they are more confident. Gay Marriage is happening, love it or hate it. Gay role models exist. The only thing that is the same is that masturbation is just as popular today as it has always been.
The site is designed for simplicity of use, not for frills and fancies. It's designed t be quick to load, and easy to navigate. The colours are designed after considerable research, to make it easy to read the text. The text is the sole reason the site exists. We have words here, crafted into forum posts and into stories. The entire site is for the reader.
So, as I started I will finish.
By our content shall you judge us.
]]>timmy2015-07-13T13:17:35-00:00Re: A time for reaffirmation
https://forum.iomfats.org/./mv/msg/8670/69919/#msg_69919
Quote:
Smokr wrote on Mon, 13 July 2015 05:04
The forum layout is also old-fashioned. There are only two forum sections. General Talk, and Literary Merit. That gives the impression of little content, and not much to do. Have a look at the more popular sites, and you'll see dozens of forum categories.
<snip>
And they get grabbed by the colors, the images, and the vast amount of content. Even when the many forum categories may be very empty in real content, the images, colors, layout, and the impression of tons of content grabs them, and even takes them away if they posted here a few times and even liked the responses they recieved.
--
Personally, I couldn't disagree more. It all seems to me to reflect the modern obsession with form over content.
I'd much rather have a few posts of meaningful content than hundreds of posts about trivia such as TV characters, movie stars, gossip, sport, etc.
An "impression of tons of content" which on closer examination is found to be mostly meaningless waffle and mutual ego-stroking would drive me away from a site forever. I certainly wouldn't want to wade through such trivial posts in multiple forums just in case I might find something intelligent and worth reading.
The sort of person who gets attracted to a site mainly by its pretty colours, clever buttons, and lots of chatty drivel in multiple forums is hardly likely to contribute anything reasonable to an intelligent discussion. Yes, that may superficially seem elitist, but it really isn't, because I'm not implying that such people are unable to contribute to an intelligent discussion but instead that they are not interested in such discussions any more than I'm interested in discussions about cars or soccer.
As for galleries, I'm guessing that means pics cute guys. There are loads of sites where one can find such pics in whatever state of dress (or undress) one fancies.
For me, the main attraction of this site is the number of 'quality' stories. If I fancy a one-handed read I go to Nifty. If I fancy a bit of thoughtful entertainment I come here. The ability to comment on stories or general matters in the two forums is an added advantage. There is also a wealth of information (medical, sexual, etc) that would probably be new and useful to those who are younger and less experienced.
The newer social media (Facebook, Twitter, etc, etc) have, for the most part, taken the place of web-based forums in all areas from computing, to cars, to sexual chat rooms, etc, just as web-based forums took the place of the Usenet newsgroups. Radio audiences declined when most people could own a TV. The good response to that should be for radio programs to do what the do best and retain the core audience that appreciates it. The bad response would be to employ all sorts of gimmicks in order to try to get back the audience that transferred to TV.
]]>Kitzyma2015-07-13T14:46:55-00:00Re: A time for reaffirmation
https://forum.iomfats.org/./mv/msg/8670/69920/#msg_69920
Quote:
larkin wrote on Mon, 13 July 2015 12:29
I must be honest that I have been spending time on the AwesomeDudes site where they encourage young inexperience writers to post flash and help in editing and an open area for posting. The forum is larger and more importantly, active. They don't censor but they accept or reject material for the protection of the site.
--
AwesomeDude might well encourage young inexperienced writers, but over a period of months he ignored my emails enquiring about having one or more of my stories on his site. So I certainly didn't feel either encouraged or welcomed.
Also, one has to ask: what is the purpose of a particular site and does it suit what I want to get out of a site?
Providing a place for inexperienced writers and aspiring authors to put up unpolished stories and get help is a good thing to do, and there are a few non-gay sites that do just that. If I want to read stories in the arduous and time-consuming role of editor, I can go to such a site. On the other hand, if I just want to relax and enjoy a 'good read' I might go to a different site. Some sites (AwesomeDude?) may well carry out both roles on different sections of the same site. That's a decision for the site owner.]]>Kitzyma2015-07-13T15:03:55-00:00Re: A time for reaffirmation
https://forum.iomfats.org/./mv/msg/8670/69921/#msg_69921
Quote:
Kitzyma wrote on Mon, 13 July 2015 16:03
"Quote:"
larkin wrote on Mon, 13 July 2015 12:29
I must be honest that I have been spending time on the AwesomeDudes site where they encourage young inexperience writers to post flash and help in editing and an open area for posting. The forum is larger and more importantly, active. They don't censor but they accept or reject material for the protection of the site.
--
AwesomeDude might well encourage young inexperienced writers, but over a period of months he ignored my emails enquiring about having one or more of my stories on his site. So I certainly didn't feel either encouraged or welcomed.
Also, one has to ask: what is the purpose of a particular site and does it suit what I want to get out of a site?
Providing a place for inexperienced writers and aspiring authors to put up unpolished stories and get help is a good thing to do, and there are a few non-gay sites that do just that. If I want to read stories in the arduous and time-consuming role of editor, I can go to such a site. On the other hand, if I just want to relax and enjoy a 'good read' I might go to a different site. Some sites (AwesomeDude?) may well carry out both roles on different sections of the same site. That's a decision for the site owner.
--
I have guarded against a mission statement. Such that I have is on the home page. The site is here, primarily, for those who seek information. Some is handed out, some has to be hunted for, some has to be asked for.
It is a place I needed and never had when I was 13, 14, 15... 25... 35... 45 etc.
It has created lasting real life friendships, too. Not just for me but for many folk.
We have had marriages, deaths, but not yet a birth.]]>timmy2015-07-13T16:21:29-00:00Re: A time for reaffirmation
https://forum.iomfats.org/./mv/msg/8670/69927/#msg_69927
The thing that brought me here and has kept me here is the stories, forums, and support pages (the content!). The site design is simple and somewhat easy to navigate. I honestly wouldn't bother with a whole rework, but possibly some minor tweaks. However going back to what Smokr said, I do agree that there is a split between the stories and the forums.
It took me a good year or so to really explore the forums. I once saw the link but never ventured here. Now that I am here, I also see the lack of "safety" threads. This isn't necessarily a bad thing seeing the numerous links from the main page, however it makes the forums a bit of an adventure trying to find what you are looking for.
I had some other thoughts in my head but lost them. I may come back later ]]>hillage2015-07-14T06:37:25-00:00Re: A time for reaffirmation
https://forum.iomfats.org/./mv/msg/8670/69928/#msg_69928
I've noticed many folk open a whole slew of fora that then remain steadfastly empty, something that would be rather silly to emulate]]>timmy2015-07-14T08:40:50-00:00Re: A time for reaffirmation
https://forum.iomfats.org/./mv/msg/8670/69929/#msg_69929
Quote:
timmy wrote on Tue, 14 July 2015 01:40I don't see an issue with opening further topic headings for individual forums, though I'd have to scratch my head to work out how. So far no-one has ever said what they might like, so we have stuck to general and literature.
I've noticed many folk open a whole slew of fora that then remain steadfastly empty, something that would be rather silly to emulate
--
I think the one thing I would recommend is making a branch off general for "A Place of Safety". Somewhere where people searching for help can ask questions, and the related topics can stay sorted out for easy finding (this makes it easier for people not wanting to post, but rather only read). ]]>hillage2015-07-14T09:02:14-00:00Re: A time for reaffirmation
https://forum.iomfats.org/./mv/msg/8670/69931/#msg_69931
Quote:
hillage wrote on Tue, 14 July 2015 09:02
I think the one thing I would recommend is making a branch off general for "A Place of Safety". Somewhere where people searching for help can ask questions, and the related topics can stay sorted out for easy finding (this makes it easier for people not wanting to post, but rather only read).
--
I think I like that idea.]]>Kitzyma2015-07-14T10:29:15-00:00Re: A time for reaffirmation
https://forum.iomfats.org/./mv/msg/8670/69932/#msg_69932
useful, not simply to be present.
There is the issue that the main forum has a huge number of help requests, answered and unanswered. There is huge historic value in these for a new enquiry, but I am not about to scan the entire forum to migrate them.
I would also mention that we have had occasional requests for help totally ignored by the membership here.
We cannot make a sub forum. The software does not allow that. To pre-empt any silliness about the use of different software, we only change forum software when there is a security need or other technical need. Some of the more common forum software is so weak on security that it would prejudice any server on which it is placed. That is not going to happen here. It is not a small piece of work in any case to change the software.]]>timmy2015-07-14T13:34:29-00:00Re: A time for reaffirmation
https://forum.iomfats.org/./mv/msg/8670/69934/#msg_69934
Quote:
timmy wrote on Tue, 14 July 2015 13:34
There is the issue that the main forum has a huge number of help requests, answered and unanswered. There is huge historic value in these for a new enquiry, but I am not about to scan the entire forum to migrate them.
I would also mention that we have had occasional requests for help totally ignored by the membership here.
--
Just some ideas to throw into the mix...
Suppose I'm looking for help. On entering the site I see 3 possible areas to go: Sexual Health, Forum, and Pastoral Care.
Suppose my particular problem involves relationships (e.g. friend, lover, parents). For instance, I have a friend I really fancy a lot, who probably isn't gay, but maybe he is, and if he is I'd like to know how to go about seeing if he'd be interested in a relationship, or at least a bit of 'fun'. That isn't religious, so Pastoral Care isn't relevant, and isn't related to health or the mechanics of sex. So that leaves the Forum.
Before I 'expose myself' by asking a question, I want to see if it's been asked before. There are a huge number of posts on a variety of topics over several years. Hoping for speedy advice, I don't have time to look through all of them. If I look carefully, I spot the 'Search' link at the top of the Forum page and use it to see if I can find what I need.
Generally, I'm hopeless with computers (not a supposition but an actuality!), so I'm not very good with search engines. In the search entry I put "in love with my possibly straight friend" and get 67 results, most of which seem irrelevant to my enquiry and at least one thread ("Wow You Are Sooooooooo Missing The Point Dudes!!!!!!!") seems so antagonistic and heated that it would immediately scare me away from the site. (Yes, I am a very timid soul!).
Clearly, in my ignorance, I'm not doing things correctly, so I need instructions. How can I find similar questions and topics? Could such instructions on how to find the help I need (and how to search properly?) be put and pinned at the top of the Forum, e.g. underneath the Netiquette announcement?
I'm rather surprised and a bit shocked that some requests for help totally ignored by the membership. Even if the topic was outside the experience of the members, surely someone could have pointed the poster in the direction he might find help.
Possibly, the question came along when not many people were paying attention to the forum, it was missed and then buried deep by later posts and then never found again. Referring back to searches: if someone seeking help did a search and found a similar question had been ignored, he almost certainly wouldn't be inclined to repeat a question that had already been ignored.
Is there any way of going back and finding answered and unanswered requests for help among so many other types of posts? I appreciate that it would be a lot of work, but I'd be happy to offer some of my time to assist. For example, if I (and hopefully others) went through old posts and collected links to specific requests for help, perhaps the posts would not need to be migrated and instead a new 'help request' forum could set up which started off with links to the earlier help requests (maybe roughly categorised??).
This may be particularly useful for help requests that were previously ignored, because now they might still get at least a 'pointing in the right direction' response. Obviously, after such a long time any response would be of no use for the original poster, but might at least be useful for others who come along with a similar problem.
As I said, just some ideas. Feel free to shoot them down - I promise I won't be offended!
]]>Kitzyma2015-07-14T14:59:33-00:00Re: A time for reaffirmation
https://forum.iomfats.org/./mv/msg/8670/69936/#msg_69936
So this is a thing to get right, and get right once.
Finding unanswered posts sounds useful, except the folk who asked the questions are long gone. That doesn't mean it ought not to be done, it just means that the usefulness has expired
We can't do a thing if an arse has answered a question as an arse. I have a policy of allowing folk enough rope.]]>timmy2015-07-14T21:56:38-00:00Re: A time for reaffirmation
https://forum.iomfats.org/./mv/msg/8670/69939/#msg_69939
It had the effect of filling the kitchen with cooks all wanting to help by offering all sorts of technical remedies from minor tweaks to a brand new interface.
I think his Timmy's web site is just fine.
The changes I was suggesting was updating the message a little and doing some external outreach by getting linked to some new GLBT sites letting them know that the site is here.
This is completely up to Timmy.
The other is to get authors that have content published to participate in the dialog more regularly.
It would also be good try to get young authors to venture forth with messages that are relevant to them. Maybe someone wants to volunteer editing and writing help to those that have a story to tell but need help making it presentable.
These are simple changes. ]]>larkin2015-07-15T07:37:54-00:00Re: A time for reaffirmation
https://forum.iomfats.org/./mv/msg/8670/69940/#msg_69940
Quote:
larkin wrote on Wed, 15 July 2015 07:37
The other is to get authors that have content published to participate in the dialog more regularly.
It would also be good try to get young authors to venture forth with messages that are relevant to them. Maybe someone wants to volunteer editing and writing help to those that have a story to tell but need help making it presentable.
--
I would very much agree that authors with content here might also want to take part in forum discussions, at least occasionally. It would be nice to think that authors might regard this as a community, not just somewhere to show off their stories. Also, if an author wants feedback on his own stories, I think that he is more likely to get if he occasionally comments on the stories of others (presuming, of course, that reads stories by other authors!).
There is on this site a list of potential editors here. I don't know how up-to-date it is.
Kit]]>Kitzyma2015-07-15T10:28:20-00:00Re: A time for reaffirmation
https://forum.iomfats.org/./mv/msg/8670/69941/#msg_69941
Quote:
Kitzyma wrote on Wed, 15 July 2015 10:28
"Quote:"
larkin wrote on Wed, 15 July 2015 07:37
The other is to get authors that have content published to participate in the dialog more regularly.
It would also be good try to get young authors to venture forth with messages that are relevant to them. Maybe someone wants to volunteer editing and writing help to those that have a story to tell but need help making it presentable.
--
I would very much agree that authors with content here might also want to take part in forum discussions, at least occasionally. It would be nice to think that authors might regard this as a community, not just somewhere to show off their stories. Also, if an author wants feedback on his own stories, I think that he is more likely to get if he occasionally comments on the stories of others (presuming, of course, that reads stories by other authors!).
There is on this site a list of potential editors here. I don't know how up-to-date it is.
Kit
--That should be a given]]>larkin2015-07-15T11:17:11-00:00Re: A time for reaffirmation
https://forum.iomfats.org/./mv/msg/8670/69943/#msg_69943
I can create new forums when folk agree on what will work rather that just what they would like.
I have often encouraged authors to come and play and not always succeeded. Please remember that the success of this part of the site is not down to me. All of us have a part to play. So encourage folk to come here as well as just being here yourselves.
The TV / Radio analogy is a good one, though. Always remember that the pictures are better on the radio]]>timmy2015-07-15T18:23:33-00:00Re: A time for reaffirmation
https://forum.iomfats.org/./mv/msg/8670/69947/#msg_69947
Quote:
larkin wrote on Wed, 15 July 2015 08:37While I was amazed at the quick response to the idea of reaffirmation.
It had the effect of filling the kitchen with cooks all wanting to help by offering all sorts of technical remedies from minor tweaks to a brand new interface.
I think his Timmy's web site is just fine.
The changes I was suggesting was updating the message a little and doing some external outreach by getting linked to some new GLBT sites letting them know that the site is here.
This is completely up to Timmy.
The other is to get authors that have content published to participate in the dialog more regularly.
It would also be good try to get young authors to venture forth with messages that are relevant to them. Maybe someone wants to volunteer editing and writing help to those that have a story to tell but need help making it presentable.
These are simple changes.
--
Linkages from other sites are not up to me, but are up to other webmasters. Webmasters agree that simple link exchange is fruitless, and drive the site's SERP position down. Deep links to specific content is a different matter, They help.
You should also be aware that we, and other gay sites are in what search engines consider to be a bad neighbourhood. I'm somewhat of a Search Engine Optimisation expert. I can tell you clearly that this domain will never be high in search engine rankings. It will do well, but not exceptionally well. I have other sites that, using the self same techniques, are top of their league. Sites dealing in sex are, by definition, porn sites. No matter that porn sites were the first successful eCommerce sites, they are deprecated by the US prurient and prudish mentality. We even got kicked off the West Hollywood area of Geoshitties, for thise with long memories, and that was alleged to be gay friendly!]]>timmy2015-07-15T23:05:57-00:00