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I expect simple behaviours here. Friendship, and love. Any advice should be from the perspective of the person asking, not the person giving! We have had to make new membership moderated to combat the huge number of spammers who register
I was outed
https://forum.iomfats.org/./mv/msg/9139/74708/#msg_74708
Joe.mx2018-08-15T00:10:34-00:00Re: I was outed
https://forum.iomfats.org/./mv/msg/9139/74709/#msg_74709
First is your statement that you thought he never knew about your problems accepting your sexuality. If true then he may have assumed that you were out to people already. (Especially if he was three sheets to the wind!) It doesn't sound as though he did it maliciously, and may actually have opened a pathway for you to acknowledge your own status while helping build more honest and open relationships.
Second, and far more important, is that this is your best friend. You don't toss somebody from that position like a paper cup in a trash bin. Yes, you're hurting. But that's when you most need your best friend. Looking for a new one, or climbing into a shell to avoid such a search altogether, is almost never the solution. Call him and set a time to meet in person. Tell him your feelings. THANK him for trying to help you expand your horizons, but ASK MOST FERVENTLY that he respect your limits in future.
In the meanwhile try to shake off feelings of doom in your personal life. Let THEM get over it as you march right long.]]>chrisr2018-08-15T07:00:31-00:00Re: I was outed
https://forum.iomfats.org/./mv/msg/9139/74711/#msg_74711
"Joe.mx wrote on Wed, 15 August 2018 01:10"
A few days ago a group friends and i were drinking in a tavern, we were drunk of course , one of them i consider him like my big brother , he is my best friend , i thought he never knew about my problems accepting my sexuality , well just like that he told everybody he once view my cellphone a saw something suspicius (that time i was reading something in nifty and let open the window ) i feel destroyed , i feel i can not trust in him anymore , im thinking in cut that friendship , i am asking for advice please ...
--
I am not sure how your nation views homosexuality, and, if it views it as acceptable, I am then not sure whether you live in an area where it is difficult to be homosexual. So my advice starts with asking you to take two steps back and to think about the wider issue.
Having thought about it, then consider whether being out will be a help for you or will cause you personal problems. Do that from two paces back, too.
This is either a great chance to be out or a great chance to go even more firmly into the closet. I was outed when I was a teenager. I chose the closet. My nation was, then, hostile to homosexuality despite it having just made it legal in 1967 and I saw it as my survival strategy. Today I regret that decision, but I have the wisdom of fifty more years to inform that regret. Then it was the correct strategy for me because I would have been harmed by it and that harm would have been done by my mother in terms of aversion therapy.
I see your choices as either:
Laugh it off. "Yeah, I had a look at the Nifty archive! You mean you haven't heard of it? Wow. Great archive of erotic tales, but none to my taste! Learnt more than I wanted about what gay folk do!!"
Come out. "The other night, when we were drunk, [friend] said he saw something suspicious on my phone. I suppose he was trying to help me tell you all that I am gay, though it hurt a bit at the time because I half felt he was letting me down. Today, sober, I am frightened of your reaction, but it's time I told you more about myself, so I am. I happen to be gay. I am also the same guy you have always known." Be prepared for teasing and for questions. Teasing is good. It means they are on your side. Questions are good. They have never been able to ask a gay person things before.
Of course your words will be your own, but those seem to me to be the two choices.
In either case do not lose your friend unless it is by his choice. I suspect it will not be and he will remain a friend
Me? I laughed my outing off. I then hid inside my head from the age of 17 to the age of 48. At 66 I am still recovering from the harm I caused to myself emotionally all those hidden years. It was necessary harm at the time. A year later it would not have been, for I would have left home for university. But at university being closeted was already my natural ingrained state.
The main message is that you will get past this. It feels shitty right now, but you will get past this and thrive.
]]>timmy2018-08-15T08:08:43-00:00Re: I was outed
https://forum.iomfats.org/./mv/msg/9139/74712/#msg_74712
What a Difference a Day Makes, published today.
"Quote:"
The next day, Mark comes round to visit. I introduce Ben and they seem to hit it off. Ben tells him about the article I've been asked to write, and asks Mark, straight out, how he reacted when I told him I was gay.'
First, it was no big surprise, and second it doesn't make any difference. I mean, I like Toby - yeah, I know, weird, but true - and the fact that he's gay doesn't change any of that. He's still the smart, fun, kind, and occasionally bloody irritating, friend he always has been. Nothing's changed; I'm still perfectly happy to be naked in the showers with him after we've played squash or gone swimming. It's not like he's gone from being a nice guy to some kind of predator just because he's come out is it? And if he'd rather it's a boy sucking his cock than a girl, why should I care...more girls for me.'
]]>timmy2018-08-15T09:07:11-00:00Re: I was outed
https://forum.iomfats.org/./mv/msg/9139/74714/#msg_74714
Cut.
Remember it takes two to tango, if he was your best friend, then you were his. You were equals in that. Ask yourself this: 'How much do I value the integrity of my sexual being?' You offered your integrity to him open handed, for acceptance, and he spat it back in your face.]]>Dominick St James2018-08-15T18:43:47-00:00Re: I was outed
https://forum.iomfats.org/./mv/msg/9139/74715/#msg_74715
"Dominick St James wrote on Wed, 15 August 2018 19:43"
"i feel i can not trust in him anymore , im thinking in cut that friendship , i am asking for advice please ..."
Cut.
Remember it takes two to tango, if he was your best friend, then you were his. You were equals in that. Ask yourself this: 'How much do I value the integrity of my sexual being?' You offered your integrity to him open handed, for acceptance, and he spat it back in your face.
--
Maybe he is guilty as charged, but what will help Joe.mx most?
Will it be continuing to enjoy the friendship and forgiving the rather large indiscretion while working out how to cause the least damage to himself, or will it be dumping this friend and also probably dumping the rest of the circle, or will it be having a quiet chat, or will it be having a blazing row?]]>timmy2018-08-15T19:08:36-00:00Re: I was outed
https://forum.iomfats.org/./mv/msg/9139/74717/#msg_74717
Joe.mx2018-08-15T20:22:00-00:00Re: I was outed
https://forum.iomfats.org/./mv/msg/9139/74718/#msg_74718
"Dominick St James wrote on Wed, 15 August 2018 13:43"
"i feel i can not trust in him anymore , im thinking in cut that friendship , i am asking for advice please ..."
Cut.
Remember it takes two to tango, if he was your best friend, then you were his. You were equals in that. Ask yourself this: 'How much do I value the integrity of my sexual being?' You offered your integrity to him open handed, for acceptance, and he spat it back in your face.
--
Thank you dominik , i never speak to him about my sexuality , he figured out,we were drunk , i dont know if he do it that to help me to make that step like crhis and timmy says , or maybe he have hard feelings on me that im not aware , thank you for caring ]]>Joe.mx2018-08-15T20:36:51-00:00Re: I was outed
https://forum.iomfats.org/./mv/msg/9139/74719/#msg_74719
"chrisr wrote on Wed, 15 August 2018 02:00"
Joe - I truly feel your pain and anxiety after being outed. That can be devastating if you're not ready for such an event, especially in front of a group of friends. But there are two things that stand out in your post.
First is your statement that you thought he never knew about your problems accepting your sexuality. If true then he may have assumed that you were out to people already. (Especially if he was three sheets to the wind!) It doesn't sound as though he did it maliciously, and may actually have opened a pathway for you to acknowledge your own status while helping build more honest and open relationships.
Second, and far more important, is that this is your best friend. You don't toss somebody from that position like a paper cup in a trash bin. Yes, you're hurting. But that's when you most need your best friend. Looking for a new one, or climbing into a shell to avoid such a search altogether, is almost never the solution. Call him and set a time to meet in person. Tell him your feelings. THANK him for trying to help you expand your horizons, but ASK MOST FERVENTLY that he respect your limits in future.
In the meanwhile try to shake off feelings of doom in your personal life. Let THEM get over it as you march right long.
--
Thank you crhis]]>Joe.mx2018-08-15T20:48:23-00:00Re: I was outed
https://forum.iomfats.org/./mv/msg/9139/74720/#msg_74720
"Joe.mx wrote on Wed, 15 August 2018 01:10"
A few days ago a group friends and i were drinking in a tavern, we were drunk of course , one of them i consider him like my big brother , he is my best friend , i thought he never knew about my problems accepting my sexuality , well just like that he told everybody he once view my cellphone a saw something suspicius (that time i was reading something in nifty and let open the window ) i feel destroyed , i feel i can not trust in him anymore , im thinking in cut that friendship , i am asking for advice please ...
--
I am not sure how your nation views homosexuality, and, if it views it as acceptable, I am then not sure whether you live in an area where it is difficult to be homosexual. So my advice starts with asking you to take two steps back and to think about the wider issue.
Having thought about it, then consider whether being out will be a help for you or will cause you personal problems. Do that from two paces back, too.
This is either a great chance to be out or a great chance to go even more firmly into the closet. I was outed when I was a teenager. I chose the closet. My nation was, then, hostile to homosexuality despite it having just made it legal in 1967 and I saw it as my survival strategy. Today I regret that decision, but I have the wisdom of fifty more years to inform that regret. Then it was the correct strategy for me because I would have been harmed by it and that harm would have been done by my mother in terms of aversion therapy.
I see your choices as either:
Laugh it off. "Yeah, I had a look at the Nifty archive! You mean you haven't heard of it? Wow. Great archive of erotic tales, but none to my taste! Learnt more than I wanted about what gay folk do!!"
Come out. "The other night, when we were drunk, [friend] said he saw something suspicious on my phone. I suppose he was trying to help me tell you all that I am gay, though it hurt a bit at the time because I half felt he was letting me down. Today, sober, I am frightened of your reaction, but it's time I told you more about myself, so I am. I happen to be gay. I am also the same guy you have always known." Be prepared for teasing and for questions. Teasing is good. It means they are on your side. Questions are good. They have never been able to ask a gay person things before.
Of course your words will be your own, but those seem to me to be the two choice
Thank you timmy , in my country , feeling towars homosexualy depends in were you live , to the south even its dangerous being gay , low education , i live in center mexico to the pacific ocean side , good education , good economy , but i live in a small town , maybe 20,000 people , everybody knows almost evebody ,and i am sort of knowed because of my job ,being gay is not a big deal here , but news runs quickly , in all that mess im gratefull that this group of friends is thight , they dont tell , well i hope they dont , im not ready , i just want to dig a hole and hide there forever ]]>Joe.mx2018-08-15T21:03:33-00:00Re: I was outed
https://forum.iomfats.org/./mv/msg/9139/74721/#msg_74721
Joe.mx2018-08-15T21:19:23-00:00Re: I was outed
https://forum.iomfats.org/./mv/msg/9139/74722/#msg_74722
"Joe.mx wrote on Wed, 15 August 2018 22:19"
Just to add to this mess ,my best friend have a little brother and saying little brother i mean he have 27 years , this guy started like 1 year ago to flirt with me very subtle ,i follow his silly game, and maybe thats the problem , he is ok with me being gay , but not with his little brother being gay
--
My instinct says that this is a useful time to sit down over coffee with your good friend and have a heart to heart talk. Do not raise the topic of his younger brother. If that comes to the surface then it will come to the surface, but clear the air with your friend. We can never have too many friends.
When I was maybe 26 I fell out with a really good friend over something poitless and silly. We next spoke 39 years later.]]>timmy2018-08-15T21:44:39-00:00Re: I was outed
https://forum.iomfats.org/./mv/msg/9139/74723/#msg_74723
Joe.mx2018-08-15T22:14:35-00:00Re: I was outed
https://forum.iomfats.org/./mv/msg/9139/74749/#msg_74749
timmy2018-08-18T15:55:44-00:00Re: I was outed
https://forum.iomfats.org/./mv/msg/9139/74765/#msg_74765
"timmy wrote on Sat, 18 August 2018 10:55"
Now a few days have passed, have your thoughts come further towards a conclusion?
--
Hi timmy , im still hurted , i dont know if things will be ever be the same , maybe i can forgive but i can forget , the damage is done , feel like something is broke]]>Joe.mx2018-08-20T21:22:22-00:00Re: I was outed
https://forum.iomfats.org/./mv/msg/9139/74766/#msg_74766
Joe.mx2018-08-20T21:30:09-00:00Re: I was outed
https://forum.iomfats.org/./mv/msg/9139/74767/#msg_74767
"Joe.mx wrote on Mon, 20 August 2018 22:22"
"timmy wrote on Sat, 18 August 2018 10:55"
Now a few days have passed, have your thoughts come further towards a conclusion?
--
Hi timmy , im still hurted , i dont know if things will be ever be the same , maybe i can forgive but i can forget , the damage is done , feel like something is broke
--
I wonder if I might suggest you look at this differently. You do not need to, of course, but it might help. And you can always return to looking at it the same way if that suits you better.
I practice a skill called Mindfulness. Some suggest it is a form of meditation, others a way of thinking. In truth it is whatever you need it to be. Broadly, it means to look at the way you feel about something and to decide unemotionally how to react to it, and to consider the effect that decision has on you. The discipline is to do it with care and without emotional hurt.
Please experiment with your thinking. Examine the event, and do so in some detail, until you determine with absolute precision how it made you feel at the time. Then replay the event and consider how you might react in a way that gives you peace of mind, perhaps even contentment.
As an experiment, try for a few minutes to live with peace of mind, or even contentment.
Now compare how each makes you feel, the hurt and the contentment. You have the ability to choose which way you carry the even forward in your mind. You can even swap between the two feelings as often as you wish or need until you settle on the most useful.
Your friend was not behaving well that night, but how much does that matter? Are you carrying hurt with you because that is a good thing to do, or for a different reason?
All I ask you to do is to think. Be truly selfish. I mean by this "Do/think what YOU need to do/think, for YOU."]]>timmy2018-08-20T21:44:11-00:00Re: I was outed
https://forum.iomfats.org/./mv/msg/9139/74768/#msg_74768
"timmy wrote on Mon, 20 August 2018 16:44"
"Joe.mx wrote on Mon, 20 August 2018 22:22"
"timmy wrote on Sat, 18 August 2018 10:55"
Now a few days have passed, have your thoughts come further towards a conclusion?
--
Hi timmy , im still hurted , i dont know if things will be ever be the same , maybe i can forgive but i can forget , the damage is done , feel like something is broke
--
I wonder if I might suggest you look at this differently. You do not need to, of course, but it might help. And you can always return to looking at it the same way if that suits you better.
I practice a skill called Mindfulness. Some suggest it is a form of meditation, others a way of thinking. In truth it is whatever you need it to be. Broadly, it means to look at the way you feel about something and to decide unemotionally how to react to it, and to consider the effect that decision has on you. The discipline is to do it with care and without emotional hurt.
Please experiment with your thinking. Examine the event, and do so in some detail, until you determine with absolute precision how it made you feel at the time. Then replay the event and consider how you might react in a way that gives you peace of mind, perhaps even contentment.
As an experiment, try for a few minutes to live with peace of mind, or even contentment.
Now compare how each makes you feel, the hurt and the contentment. You have the ability to choose which way you carry the even forward in your mind. You can even swap between the two feelings as often as you wish or need until you settle on the most useful.
Your friend was not behaving well that night, but how much does that matter? Are you carrying hurt with you because that is a good thing to do, or for a different reason?
All I ask you to do is to think. Be truly selfish. I mean by this "Do/think what YOU need to do/think, for YOU."
--
Im in that timmy thank you , i have denied to hang with the guys until i have decided what i have to do , im with my mind hot , my father teach to not make decisions when im in anger , i come here and asked for advice , you have no idea what thats means to me to have this place and you guys caring , thank you so much ]]>Joe.mx2018-08-20T22:04:42-00:00Re: I was outed
https://forum.iomfats.org/./mv/msg/9139/74771/#msg_74771
Mark2018-08-21T00:00:30-00:00Re: I was outed
https://forum.iomfats.org/./mv/msg/9139/74772/#msg_74772
"Joe.mx wrote on Mon, 20 August 2018 23:04"
Im in that timmy thank you , i have denied to hang with the guys until i have decided what i have to do , im with my mind hot , my father teach to not make decisions when im in anger , i come here and asked for advice , you have no idea what thats means to me to have this place and you guys caring , thank you so much
--
What I think is this. Take steps to cool your mind. I think you are afraid and that causes anger. I don't think you are simply angry. What I believe will help is switching off the anger. Ok, you just said "I can't just switch it off!" as you read that but actually you can, because being angry is a choice.
Your friend made a mistake. You have stopped being angry about all his other mistakes as time passed. This one be positive about and switch off the anger. It's a decision. Try "Fuck it, this is pointless I will not be angry. Then I can deal with the fear with a clear head!"
And then you handle the fear.
Tell me with absolute precision what you are afraid of. Don't worry that English is your second language, you have enough precision. Make a list and then we can look at that list and work our if it is a reality or if it is:
my being expelled and never seeing the boy I adored (uselessly) ever again
the housemaster telling my parents
my mother sending me for aversion therapy
I concluded I would have to kill myself. I am rather pleased I did not, because, apart from minor silly teasing, I was treated just the same by everyone.
That list of mine was hot in my head that night when I cycled home form school. I was choosing which truck to throw mysel;f under. None were quite the right truck. And I also wanted to see the boy I truly adored (who was not the one I was outed over) one more time before I died. I was in a very dark place, but I made it.
I am not better than you.
You can choose to make it as well.
The first step is hanging with the guys again.]]>timmy2018-08-21T07:08:07-00:00