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I expect simple behaviours here. Friendship, and love. Any advice should be from the perspective of the person asking, not the person giving! We have had to make new membership moderated to combat the huge number of spammers who register
Black Lives Matter / Gay Lives Matter
https://forum.iomfats.org/./mv/msg/9371/76956/#msg_76956
I have no frame of reference for the USA save pure human disgust at the reckless disregard the USA and its law officers have for Black Lives. Any further comment from me would be out of disgusted ignorance. I hope someone understanding the USA will post a far better commentary than I could in this very serious issue.
Today in the UK, Section 28 of the local Government Act 1988 is trending on Twitter because this is the start of Pride Month. And we see the Fatberg's party's tweets pretending to be in support. But look at their voting record:
We could argue that the leopard has changed its spots, but I think it is simply waiting to bite again.]]>timmy2020-06-01T20:45:41-00:00Re: Black Lives Matter / Gay Lives Matter
https://forum.iomfats.org/./mv/msg/9371/76962/#msg_76962
Teddy2020-06-02T03:00:52-00:00Re: Black Lives Matter / Gay Lives Matter
https://forum.iomfats.org/./mv/msg/9371/76963/#msg_76963
The Marriage (Same Sex Couples) Act 2013, which allows same-sex marriage in England and Wales, was passed by the UK Parliament'
Remind me which government was in power at the time ...]]>The Composer2020-06-02T12:27:13-00:00Re: Black Lives Matter / Gay Lives Matter
https://forum.iomfats.org/./mv/msg/9371/76964/#msg_76964
"The Composer wrote on Tue, 02 June 2020 13:27"
'The Marriage (Same Sex Couples) Act 2013, which allows same-sex marriage in England and Wales, was passed by the UK Parliament'
Remind me which government was in power at the time ...
--
The same Government but a very different Prime Minister... and no svengali in the background.]]>Camy2020-06-02T16:11:25-00:00Re: Black Lives Matter / Gay Lives Matter
https://forum.iomfats.org/./mv/msg/9371/76965/#msg_76965
"Camy wrote on Tue, 02 June 2020 17:11"
"The Composer wrote on Tue, 02 June 2020 13:27"
'The Marriage (Same Sex Couples) Act 2013, which allows same-sex marriage in England and Wales, was passed by the UK Parliament'
Remind me which government was in power at the time ...
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The same Government but a very different Prime Minister... and no svengali in the background.
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I think I need to be pedantic. It was a different government, but it was the same party of government.]]>timmy2020-06-02T19:30:33-00:00Re: Black Lives Matter / Gay Lives Matter
https://forum.iomfats.org/./mv/msg/9371/76968/#msg_76968
The Netherlands became the first country in the world to legalize same-sex marriage in 2001, with the law coming into effect on 1 April (no joke!) That day, Job Cohen, the Mayor of Amsterdam, married four same-sex couples after becoming a registrar specifically to officiate weddings.
It took 12 more years for the UK and the rest of Europe to follow amidst outrage and backlash from the conservative right and Catholics.
The Netherlands stands alone as an example of a country where human rights and equality and freedom stand out. The country decrimalised cannabis for personal consumption in 1976!
The Netherlands has become one of the most culturally liberal countries in the world, with recent polls indicating that more than 90% of Dutch people support same sex marriage.]]>Talo Segura2020-06-03T06:14:41-00:00Re: Black Lives Matter / Gay Lives Matter
https://forum.iomfats.org/./mv/msg/9371/76969/#msg_76969
The Composer2020-06-03T09:54:38-00:00Re: Black Lives Matter / Gay Lives Matter
https://forum.iomfats.org/./mv/msg/9371/76988/#msg_76988
Yup, that was it.]]>timmy2020-06-04T22:46:35-00:00Re: Black Lives Matter / Gay Lives Matter
https://forum.iomfats.org/./mv/msg/9371/76994/#msg_76994
"timmy wrote on Mon, 01 June 2020 21:45"
I have no frame of reference for the USA save pure human disgust at the reckless disregard the USA and its law officers have for Black Lives. Any further comment from me would be out of disgusted ignorance.
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Do you really need one? It's not a uniquely American problem, by any means. Ask Mark Duggan (with whom I had a nodding acquaintance). Ask Sean Rigg. And there are sadly a number of other English black bodies to testify that a racist disregard for black people - males in particular - is endemic in the police forces of our major cities.
Sadly, the Tottenham riots following Mark Duggan's death failed to achieve lasting change. I wish our American cousins better luck.]]>NW2020-06-05T18:46:43-00:00Re: Black Lives Matter / Gay Lives Matter
https://forum.iomfats.org/./mv/msg/9371/76995/#msg_76995
"NW wrote on Fri, 05 June 2020 11:46"
Sadly, the Tottenham riots following Mark Duggan's death failed to achieve lasting change. I wish our American cousins better luck.
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Well, we've had what? a decade now of "Black Lives Matter" protests here in the states? And before that we had the Rodney Kind riots in South Central LA. We had the race riots of the 60's including the Watts Riots, again, in LA? Plus many, many other individual marches and protests. None of those has done much to change the racism and white privilege that seems to be endemic in certain sectors of our society. Unarmed black men and boys are still dying at the hands of the police at appallingly high rates. People like to quote statistics that many more white men die at the hands of police than do black men, but in doing so they fail to take into account the percentages. I'm sure they overlook the percentage statistics purposely because were they to do so they'd learn something they don't want to know.
So no, while I appreciate your wishes for a more fortunate outcome of our protests than you've seen there, that ship has already sailed, unfortunately. We're doing no better than y'all are over there across the pond.]]>Teddy2020-06-05T20:14:30-00:00Re: Black Lives Matter / Gay Lives Matter
https://forum.iomfats.org/./mv/msg/9371/76998/#msg_76998
timmy2020-06-05T21:42:22-00:00Re: Black Lives Matter / Gay Lives Matter
https://forum.iomfats.org/./mv/msg/9371/77001/#msg_77001
If for a moment you leave aside police racism and homophobia, you can take a look at the societies (not restricted to America) in which racism arises and see how it results in murdering black people. The chance of being killed by the police (or anybody) in America is already higher than in a lot of other countries. Add in the accepted norm that anyone can kill someone who trespasses and you can see a link to a societal thinking equating justice and the right to kill. The property owner shooting the supposed burglar, the police officer the supposed criminal. It is not rare for the American police to over react, shoot first. This whole way of society makes it possible for terrible things to happen. What I'm saying is that it is not as simple as racism or police violence, but all this is born out of the whole of the society. A society which accepts things as normal (carrying weapons and killing people) which are not normal in a civilised world.
From a foreigners point of view it seems the police in America have the right to shoot anybody without having to justify it. In France it is rare for a policeman to draw their weapon, and if they shoot someone they must justify before a judge that it was in self-defence. In other words, that they were shot at or in a life threatening situation.
It isn't difficult to see that if it's allowed to carry weapons and shoot people, then using excess force and killing someone during an arrest is another aspect of a society out of control. Racism is not confined to the police, that is maybe the most visible reflection of the society.
]]>Talo Segura2020-06-06T07:11:48-00:00Re: Black Lives Matter / Gay Lives Matter
https://forum.iomfats.org/./mv/msg/9371/77003/#msg_77003
Roger Cohen wrote a telling Op-Ed in today's New York Times, titled "Get Your Knee Off Our Necks," in which he summarizes the "dominate the streets" response from Trump and Cotton by saying that this is "to assert with a great show of force, after the slow-motion murder of George Floyd by a white police officer, that the oppressive system that produced this act is not about to change and armed white male power in America is inviolable. That is Trump's fundamental credo. His Bible-brandishing, American Gothic portrait this week outside St. John's Episcopal Church in Washington is one of the most disturbing portraits of psychopathic self-importance seen since 1933."
]]>Bensiamin2020-06-06T15:17:54-00:00Re: Black Lives Matter / Gay Lives Matter
https://forum.iomfats.org/./mv/msg/9371/77004/#msg_77004
How many white men have been killed by US police?
'429 civilians having been shot, 88 of whom were Black, as of June 4, 2020'
I think the problem may possibly lie with American police forces.
This latest event occured in a city run by the Democrats for decades. Why haven't they sorted their police forces out?]]>The Composer2020-06-06T18:36:17-00:00Re: Black Lives Matter / Gay Lives Matter
https://forum.iomfats.org/./mv/msg/9371/77008/#msg_77008
On top of that, since 9/11 something else has happened in America - the police have been militarized. By that I mean that city police departments have been stocked with military vehicles, military weaponry, military riot gear, etc., etc. It's not true "military police' in the tarditional sense of the word, but it is damn close.
When your city police department can roll out military grade Humvees and MRAPs, and take to the streets with M-16s, something dramatic has changed...and not for the good.]]>Bensiamin2020-06-07T02:06:29-00:00Re: Black Lives Matter / Gay Lives Matter
https://forum.iomfats.org/./mv/msg/9371/77009/#msg_77009
"The Composer wrote on Sat, 06 June 2020 11:36"
This latest event occured in a city run by the Democrats for decades. Why haven't they sorted their police forces out?
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You ask a great question. As has been pointed out by a number of city mayors around the US over the last couple of weeks now, A huge part of the problem is the collective bargaining agreements that have been agreed on over the years. The labor unions that are representing the police officers have more power at this point, due to those collective bargaining agreements, than do the mayors and city managers. Bad policing and bad police officers have become increacingly more difficult to control, to the point that in some cases there is very little that can/could be done, even when the violations were egregious.]]>Teddy2020-06-07T05:10:40-00:00Re: Black Lives Matter / Gay Lives Matter
https://forum.iomfats.org/./mv/msg/9371/77010/#msg_77010
The Composer2020-06-07T11:15:01-00:00Re: Black Lives Matter / Gay Lives Matter
https://forum.iomfats.org/./mv/msg/9371/77011/#msg_77011
The Composer2020-06-07T11:23:41-00:00Re: Black Lives Matter / Gay Lives Matter
https://forum.iomfats.org/./mv/msg/9371/77014/#msg_77014
timmy2020-06-07T17:04:05-00:00Re: Black Lives Matter / Gay Lives Matter
https://forum.iomfats.org/./mv/msg/9371/77015/#msg_77015
"The Composer wrote on Sun, 07 June 2020 12:15"
Margaret Thatcher would have sorted that one ...
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I feel your tongue is in your cheek, rather. I'm not sure she was at all interested in police brutality unless it was against the miners' union. Then it was not exactly discouraged.]]>timmy2020-06-07T17:05:19-00:00