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That is more odd.
Have you been taking any medication?
David
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Whitop
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Toe is in the water |
Location: USA
Registered: June 2005
Messages: 73
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Boy, is this off track, or what!?
David, How 'bout animated T-shirts in color with voice-over introducing and interacting with B&W newsclips and home movies? Oh, the tales those shirts could tell!
Mac
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No I have not taken any of the meds that I have to take since my laps in good judgement. I take Pain Killer for the arm. High dose of Riddlen for the ADD, and ADHD.
So say what you want
(You know I'm wasting all my time)
You've gotta mean it when you say what you want
(You're only safe when you're alone)
And everybody's on your mind
Saying anything to get you by
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Whitop
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Toe is in the water |
Location: USA
Registered: June 2005
Messages: 73
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David,
You could record some of your iemprovizations and post them for US. Might help you remember them too.
I play slow things with music and feeling, but in recent years seem to spend more time on the computer and don't get back to the Yamaha in the living room. Maybe thus inspired, I'll try again.
Mac
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Whitop
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Toe is in the water |
Location: USA
Registered: June 2005
Messages: 73
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I would add that I had a band teacher in high school (with a very wide mouth) who could play two melodies on two trumpets at the same time. He certainly was thinking of both at the same time.
Mac
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Thanks, Mac. I'm convinced that it's possible.
David
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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Sorry if I was trying to get my point of view across.....
I guess that's not allowed either.....
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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Not "not allowed". But if you've already said something half a dozen times, saying it again's a bit redundant.
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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Not at all if the point is continualy missed.
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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But whose point are we talking about? It's Jason's thread, and half a dozen other people have now been involved in the subject. Just because we're talking about something you're also talking about does not mean that anything you say will automatically be relevant. If we are already agreeing on something (which we are, or at least I am), restating it won't progress the conversation at all.
I personally think it is too simplistic to argue that one cannot conceive of two tunes at the same time simply because it is impossible to hum them inside one's head. That is all. That does not prevent what you have said from being true; it's just redundant, as you've said it already.
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Ironically, most of the parent post is also redundant, as I have said it elsewhere in this thread. 
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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You know something, Did I make the mistake of asking your opinion? no...
It just isn't worth it to try to converse here....
It is impossible........
FUCK IT!
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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Marc has the right to say what he wants when he wants how many time he wants. I don't agree with him but I will stand by that he a right to say it over and over again.
So say what you want
(You know I'm wasting all my time)
You've gotta mean it when you say what you want
(You're only safe when you're alone)
And everybody's on your mind
Saying anything to get you by
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But don't beleave that just cause a sientist says it fact that it is fact they don't even know what most of the brain realy dose. seeing how we only use on avg 5% at any given time.
So say what you want
(You know I'm wasting all my time)
You've gotta mean it when you say what you want
(You're only safe when you're alone)
And everybody's on your mind
Saying anything to get you by
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Sorry CRAPPY DAY it should have said
But don't believe that just cause a scientist says it fact that it is fact they don't even know what most of the brain really dose. Seeing how we only use on avg 5% at any given time.
So say what you want
(You know I'm wasting all my time)
You've gotta mean it when you say what you want
(You're only safe when you're alone)
And everybody's on your mind
Saying anything to get you by
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Whitop
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Toe is in the water |
Location: USA
Registered: June 2005
Messages: 73
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Some time after reading Deej’s early morning post on this thread, I was driving along Central Avenue on the way to renew my gym membership and verbalizing this post.
“In the ‘50s I was a Navy night fighter pilot; we were trained to scan continuously, (altitude, heading, airspeed, attitude radio direction finder) making adjustments with stick, rudder and throttle, tuning to the next RDF station, reporting our progress on the radio, without breaking the scan sequence. One night, alone in my Corsair, I was over Boston in the rain when they told me to change my flight plan, so while doing all the above, I recalculated the next three check points and my estimated arrival times and wondered if the Officers’ Club would still be open when I got to Atlantic City so I could have a much needed martini. I was too busy to notice if I was thinking sequentially or in parallel, but I was doing one hell of a lot of thinking in a short period of time. I also decided not to fly at night on instruments alone in peacetime ever again and stuck to it..” As I turned on to the street of my gym, (still verbalizing this post), “I realize I had braked the car to avoid the car that pulled out in front of me, I hurried up to catch the light before turning, and noticed that the radio was offering free tickets to a concert to the eleventh caller who answered what was the name of the area in the West End that figured in a movie with Julia Roberts and Hugh Grant – Notting Hill – and fretted because every time I had tried to call it that number was busy – forget 11th.” I also found the gym and renewed. It felt like I was thinking about more than my band teacher ever did.
Btw, when meditation was being pushed once, I tried to think about nothing, but could only think about thinking about nothing – which was not. I tried repeating mantras but only kept thinking if I tried a different mantra it might work and what does “it work” mean?
Does this help? Maybe not, but your thread sure got me thinking, Jason!
And thanks, Aussie, for the link to MU. Having lived in Japan for three years, that piece rang many bells, or maybe, gongs.
Thanks, all for a good ride, Mac
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Aussie
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Really getting into it |
Registered: August 2006
Messages: 475
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Thanks Whitop, it's good to know the link clicked with someone and glad you got something out of it.
Aussie
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Jason said,
>But don't believe that just cause a scientist says it fact that it is fact they don't even know what most of the brain really dose. Seeing how we only use on avg 5% at any given time.
Odd that you would pooh-pooh scientific fact yet you accept without question that we only use 5% (or 10%) of the brain. It is one of those figures that is bandied around frequently without any real evidence.
As I understand it, it is more correct to say something along the lines of, "We don't know what the brain is doing 90% of the time," which is hardly surprising, given how complicated it is, and how poor our understanding of it is. If you've ever looked at a neural network, it is virtually impossible to understand how one part is affecting another part -- but often you will find if you remove a peripheral neuron that has no apparent purpose, the entire thing will stop working.
If it were actually true that 95% of the brain is redundant, then it seems likely you would be able to suffer enormous brain trauma and yet still continue as normal, at least for a little while. This is not the case.
David
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Never said that 95% was redundant I just said we are only using about 5% of the brain. That was meant as any part of the brain at any given time.
So say what you want
(You know I'm wasting all my time)
You've gotta mean it when you say what you want
(You're only safe when you're alone)
And everybody's on your mind
Saying anything to get you by
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Hi Jason,
I'd be interested in a reference or link pointing out where that figure came from, if you have one.
Thanks,
David
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Whitop
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Toe is in the water |
Location: USA
Registered: June 2005
Messages: 73
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My dear pedagogue,
Here the word 'redundant' is right on. I think in your earlier post on this thread, 'repetitive' would have been the better choice.
Btw, I find very useful, particularly in this pan-Atlantic venue.
Cheers, Mac
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That would Be biology 2 AP (Advance Placement) that I took in high school a whole term was just over the human biology and it working, but I will be glade to go throw some book and the web to get you ref. Like I said in the profile I took a lot of adv class by the way AP at least where I live is an honor, means you more of an understanding for that subject. (I think that would be good way to put) Just because I talk and look idiot dose not mean I am idiot. LOL
Jay
So say what you want
(You know I'm wasting all my time)
You've gotta mean it when you say what you want
(You're only safe when you're alone)
And everybody's on your mind
Saying anything to get you by
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Um...
I do not see a problem with either use of the word "redundant". The meanings are subtly different, but both are valid.
"Repetitive" does not mean the same thing as "redundant". Repetition does not necessarily imply redundancy; if a point is necessary, it can be made many times without being redundant. But once it becomes redundant, this means it does not need to be said again. This was the meaning I meant to use, and as far as I am aware it is perfectly correct.
See:
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=redundant&x=0&y=0
Parts of the brain are redundant in that some parts can take over from others in the case of damage. This meaning is less perjorative but equally valid.
David
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Jason said,
>I will be glade to go throw some book and the web to get you ref.
Please do.
I studied Biology to A-level (advanced level at school, pre-university) and never came across this statistic; I have heard it, I think, only by word of mouth from non-scientists.
Wikipedia, for instance, says:
>Although folklore would have it that about 90% of the human brain is dormant, this has proven scientifically unfounded; researchers until the mid 1990s focused on only a small portion of the brain in efforts to understand its computational capacity.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_brain
David
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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Deeej wrote:
> Um...
>
> I do not see a problem with either use of the word "redundant". The meanings are subtly different, but both are valid.
>
> "Repetitive" does not mean the same thing as "redundant". Repetition does not necessarily imply redundancy; if a point is necessary, it can be made many times without being redundant. But once it becomes redundant, this means it does not need to be said again. This was the meaning I meant to use, and as far as I am aware it is perfectly correct.
Does not need to be said to who?
Have you set yourself up as the redundancy police?
If that is the case, just ignore anything from me and I will be safe from your scorn and you will be safe from my redundancy.
>
> See:
> http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=redundant&x=0&y=0
>
> Parts of the brain are redundant in that some parts can take over from others in the case of damage. This meaning is less perjorative but equally valid.
>
> David
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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Marc said,
>Have you set yourself up as the redundancy police?
I believe they're known as the Department of Redundancy Department.
David
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Deeej
>…the Department of Redundancy Department<
That's probably just a little too subtle.
Hugs
N
I dream of boys with big bulges in their trousers,
Never of girls with big bulges in their blouses.
…and look forward to meeting you in Cóito.
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Is this a portemanteau word for pedagogy and pedantry?
Hugs
N
I dream of boys with big bulges in their trousers,
Never of girls with big bulges in their blouses.
…and look forward to meeting you in Cóito.
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I have never seen you, but im sure you dont look like an idiot, just as Im sure your not an idiot. I ask the biology teacher about the 5% verses the 10%. Of course I got more info than I ever wanted. He says, "The human brain is very complicated (duh) a lot of the brain is used for storage (like something triggers a memory from when you were 5 years old). Different areas of the brain control and store different things and they can all work in unison (such as seeing something, smelling it, hearing it, and thinking on gee a skunk), however, it is estimated that we only use 5 to 10% of our brain at one time. Its not that we use 5% and the other 95% is just waist, but only 5% or 10% is active at one time. I think from what he said that there is probably a wide margine of how much of the brain is in use at a singe moment.
I believe in Karma....what you give is what you get returned........
Affirmation........Savage Garden
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Yes, it a myth that you only use 5-10% that the other part is not used, but what I stating is that you are only using 0-20% of different areas at any given time varies on what you are doing.
Having had no time to look at all my notes from that class yet but found a web site that Tells a little about the truth and the misunderstood facts. But my basis is "Perhaps when people use the 10% brain statement, they mean that only one out of every ten nerve cells is essential or used at any one time? How would such a measurement be made?” ( http://faculty.washington.edu/chudler/tenper.html )
But it explains a lot more than what my notes would cover.
So say what you want
(You know I'm wasting all my time)
You've gotta mean it when you say what you want
(You're only safe when you're alone)
And everybody's on your mind
Saying anything to get you by
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Is pedegogurey made with tomatoes?
I believe in Karma....what you give is what you get returned........
Affirmation........Savage Garden
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Whitop
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Toe is in the water |
Location: USA
Registered: June 2005
Messages: 73
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Hi, David,
For some reason, the website I said ‘I find very useful, particularly in this pan-Atlantic venue’. above was left out of my post as it was posted (perhaps the angle brackets around the address?). It was:
http://www.onelook.com/
The redundancy in the brain, and in the space shuttle, to be there in case of failure of the primary system, or of another system, is usually the second definition. The first refers to discourse or writing. ("Another type of redundancy involves repetition words and phrases. For example, "the end result" is a commonly used phrase, but "the result" is sufficient. "At this point in time" is another example; "now" usually is sufficient. Yet a third example is "each and every"; "each" is sufficient. " - Aid to bulletin writers. 'redundant pairs (“benefits and advantages”), redundant modifiers (“mandatory requirement”), redundant categories (“rectangular in shape”), phrases used where words would do (“at this point in time” instead of “now”), and empty sentence openings: ‘‘There is a strong likelihood of rain tomorrow," rather than “Rain is very likely tomorrow.” ' - Keith Grant-Davie Univ of Utah).
I agree,' "Repetitive" does not mean the same thing as "redundant" ' But Marc, who repeated the same idea, ‘No person can think about two things simultaneously’ one way or another, over and over, was never redundant in so doing. (Btw, if he hadn’t repeated it 6 times, ‘over and over’ would have been redundant!’
‘Repetition does not necessarily imply redundancy; if a point is necessary, it can be made many times without being redundant. But once it becomes redundant, this means it does not need to be said ‘ Do you mean: ‘If a point is necessary to be made, it can be made many times without its promoter being redundant. But once it becomes accepted, it does not have to be said again.’? I don’t find any definition of redundant which could modify ‘a point’.
And Nigel, I thought I had made up the word Pedagoguery, David having referred to himself on some occasions I think as a pedagogue, but the above cited site found it in A Dictionary of Obscure Words. Portemanteau? A hanger or hat rack? Anyhow, I don’t consider myself pedantic, only a seeker of clarity. Mac
P.S. Brian, Any suggestions? I'll try it and report. m
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Hi Brian,
Your teacher said,
>only 5% or 10% is active at one time
I have to say that that sounds like a straightforward reponse from someone who is unsure but cautiously agreeing with the spirit of "at any one time, we are only using 10% of the brain" because it sounds reasonable enough if phrased in that way. I asked my father -- who did his MD in neurology, IIRC, though is now a cardiologist -- and he told me that if I wanted to get a definitive answer I would have to try the university library or someone who has specific specialised insight into the workings of the brain. I'm not convinced that it's a subject a high school teacher would know enough about unless he has specialist knowledge into the subject, or has looked it up.
Of course, I can't possibly be authoritative on the answer myself, but I am always sceptical of the "easy way out", which is to dismiss the subject once one discovers a conjecture that sounds reasonable enough, without demanding actual proof. I would like to know who came up with the 10% in the first place. How can you possibly measure it? Why 10%, rather than 5% or 25%? 10% over what time period? (In any given microsecond you might be using a handful of neurons, an almost infinitessimal percentage of the brain; in any given second you might be using a few million, a small percentage; but by the end of an hour you might have used them all.) In other words, I would like to trace it back to its source, rather than cautiously accepting it as true and working around it.
Certainly, "at any one time" is very difficult to define. A computer processor is only able to access a few bytes of memory at any one time -- does that in fact mean that for every given point it is only using a billionth of its memory capacity? Technically, yes -- practically, of course not. A computer processor spends eternity in a waiting loop before springing into action for a few milliseconds. Does that mean it is only using a thousandth of its power? No, because the full processing power is there in practical terms at any point you need it.
Jason suggested:
http://faculty.washington.edu/chudler/tenper.html
It seems like a sensible page. Note the links at the bottom, especially the one from the Urban Legends Reference Pages (Snopes), which is a good site run by intelligent people, and generally well-researched:
http://www.snopes.com/science/stats/10percnt.htm
I have copied a paragraph here which is particularly useful, though I'd recommend you read the Snopes article in its entirety instead.
1) Brain imaging research techniques such as PET scans (positron emission tomography) and fMRI (functional magnetic resonance imaging) clearly show that the vast majority of the brain does not lie fallow. Indeed, although certain minor functions may use only a small part of the brain at one time, any sufficiently complex set of activities or thought patterns will indeed use many parts of the brain. Just as people don't use all of their muscle groups at one time, they also don't use all of their brain at once. For any given activity, such as eating, watching television, making love, or reading, you may use a few specific parts of your brain. Over the course of a whole day, however, just about all of the brain is used at one time or another. [my emphasis]
That being the case, it's really irrelevant how much is being used over any particular measuring period.
David
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Tomatoes aren't made. They grow.
I dream of boys with big bulges in their trousers,
Never of girls with big bulges in their blouses.
…and look forward to meeting you in Cóito.
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Sorry, Mac. It failed the Concise Oxford Dictionary test and I couldn't be fagged to go downstairs and look in the NODE. However, it doesn't invalidate my question.
I dream of boys with big bulges in their trousers,
Never of girls with big bulges in their blouses.
…and look forward to meeting you in Cóito.
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Actually, I usually refer to myself as a pedant, not a pedagogue. Hence 'pedantry'.
See: http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=redundant&x=0&y=0
I think you are splitting hairs over this, possibly incorrectly. I have used the word "redundant" quite loosely in my replies; you may be right that a point itself cannot technically be redundant. But repetition of a point can, hence his posts were, and I would have thought that it was clear from the context that that is what I was referring to.
I am not sure why you say that Marc was not being redundant in making the same point several times. After the first time, his replies were redundant. Almost anything can be redundant if there are more present than required.
>Portemanteau? A hanger or hat rack?
See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portmanteau
Personally, I find dictionary.com easier to use than onelook.com.
David
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Whitop
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Toe is in the water |
Location: USA
Registered: June 2005
Messages: 73
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I guess, Nigel, I don't understnad your question.
Try again? m
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13806
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Play a drumkit. As any copmpetent drummer will tell you, it's hard. As any skilled drummer will tell you, it's evilly hard. Novices will tell you how easy it is.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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I used to have percussion lessons at school, including the drum kit for a couple of years. I'm neither competent nor skilled. But I know how hard it is.
David
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Whitop
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Toe is in the water |
Location: USA
Registered: June 2005
Messages: 73
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I've never thought your display of learning either excessive or inappropriate, rather, interesting and engaging. In any case, I learned something today. I had thought port(e)manteau was a French suitcase but missed the clue to drop the 'e' in onelook.com. I had never known about the linquistic meaning before, and picked up morphemes too. A useful visit.
Best, Mac
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