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Cossie,
I do not believe I referred to your views as in any way "inflexible". If I did that was certainly not the intent of my post. In fact I did not specifically refer to your's or anyone else's views at all.
Let me edit this to say that I did agree with a sentece posted by NW
Sorry if I left that impression.
[Updated on: Mon, 20 November 2006 04:28]
“There's no grays, only white that's got grubby. I'm surprised you don't know that. And sin, young man, is when you treat people as things. Including yourself. That's what sin is.” - Terry Pratchett
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cossie
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On fire! |
Location: Exiled in North East Engl...
Registered: July 2003
Messages: 1699
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... and I'm glad you stayed up!
For a' that an' a' that,
It's comin' yet for a' that,
That man tae man, the worrld o'er
Shall brithers be, for a' that.
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cossie
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On fire! |
Location: Exiled in North East Engl...
Registered: July 2003
Messages: 1699
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... think your post was directed against me; I was simply asking for clarification of the reason for your reservations.
For a' that an' a' that,
It's comin' yet for a' that,
That man tae man, the worrld o'er
Shall brithers be, for a' that.
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13800
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Deeej wrote:
> Incidentally, the secret to overcoming a phobia is exposure, not intellect -- if you try that as a strategy it may help you more. I don't know of anyone who has "turned straight" by spending more time with women!
I maried one, met her 28 years ago. hasn't worked in my case
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Aussie
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Really getting into it |
Registered: August 2006
Messages: 475
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Marriage is an adventure, like going to war.
Gilbert K. Chesterton
Marrige is the only war where you sleep with the enemy.
Aussie :-/
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Saben wrote:
> as he gets older my attraction "grows up" with him, sort of like the chapters in a book progressively closing and bringing about some kind of closure from my own teen years.
This was very true for me. When I was 34, I fell desperately in love with an 18 year old - late teens were then the age that mainly attracted me. The relationship lasted until he was 30 ... and the age that I was primarily attracted to moved on in step with that ... so now I seem to find guys in their 30s and 40s most attractive.
"The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral, begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy. ... Returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night devoid of stars." Martin Luther King
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13800
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I wish that could have happened for me. I have fought hard inside my head to raise my age of attraction from an unacceptably low 13 (John was 13 when I fell for him) to an age that is socially acceptable. I have achieved it. I even find some adult men attractive enough to want so badly I can feel it.
I know that, had I been in a loving relationship with a boy at (say) 13, as he aged so would my attraction age. That is what I worked on and how hard I worked at it is incredible. The age rane can go up if we allow it.
But we will still call the ones we are attracted to by the same title we call ourselves: Boys.
I am a boy. I just happen to be an adult one. I will always be a boy, and, whatever age the men I am attracted to are, they will be "boys", too.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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That is interesting, NW.
One of my biggest worries is that I will grow old and turn into a dirty old man who is still hankering after young men (aged around my age now) and teenage boys. With absolutely no disrespect intended to those here who are older and married, having a disparity between one's own age and one's attraction, on the level of a generation, means that though it is fine to talk about the beauty of youth, it is nevertheless considered socially (even if not legally -- assuming they are over the age of consent) inappropriate to pursue people who are entirely out of one's age group. It certainly makes life difficult. As an illustration of what this may be like, my attraction (and I must stress that it's an attraction only) to boys below the age of consent still exists, and I have seen no sign so far that it will go altogether, despite the fact that I am no longer at school and around people of that age.
That said, I have considered Cossie's suggestion to Saben that his attraction might be one to people younger than himself rather than a particular, fixed age group. I am not altogether sure whether the same applies in my case; I dare say it will become clearer as I get older.
I also wonder if having stayed out of relationships until now -- instead, spending a lot of time thinking about what could have been at school -- means that I am vulnerable to becoming in some way fixated on a particular age. This seems to be the problem with those who categorise themselves as "teen boy lovers" and is something I am extremely anxious to avoid.
I am not sure how we ended up talking about this in this thread -- perhaps it would be appropriate to open a new one.
David
[Updated on: Mon, 20 November 2006 12:37] |
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Timmy,
When you say you have raised your age of attraction, have you raised it to your own age, or just into the late teens and twenties?
David
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13800
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Let's be realistic. Most heterosexual men are wholly uninterested in women over 30. There are some exceptions.
Most homosexual men are as their heterosexual peers. There are also exceptions.
Apart from a very few exceptions I have managed to raise my sights to the 18-30 group. I am most unlikely ever to faind a tubby wrinkly grey haired old goat like me attractive. There will be exceptions.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13800
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This thread or a new one. This one has probably run its course.
The answer to your worry is that no-one except you can know that. In your early twenties it is perfectly reasonable to be attracted to under 16s, but it is also unlikely that they will be attractyed to you. Plus it is, as we all know, unlawful to act.
But, since you are now a newsly discovered sexually respinsive being, it is highly likely that you can return it when another young man is attracted to you. I don't mean you have to fall in love, but you can snuggle, cuddle, frot and more. This is "dating", and is normal.
In doing this you will discover more about yourself.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Timmy said,
>Let's be realistic. Most heterosexual men are wholly uninterested in women over 30. There are some exceptions.
>
>Most homosexual men are as their heterosexual peers. There are also exceptions.
I honestly do not agree with you. True, most young men aren't as interested older women, but they are not necessarily completely uninterested. They simply have girls of their own age readily available, and youth is, biologically speaking, more attractive. I don't argue with that.
You make two assumptions:
i. That most older men aren't interested in mature women, and
ii. That this necessarily extends to gay people.
I do not believe the first to be true. Women may retain an elegance and beauty well beyond the age of 30. While this may not be of interest to young men it is certainly still of interest to men in their fifties and beyond. Maybe they don't find older women as attractive as women in their teens or twenties, but there is still some attraction there, and there is the advantage that it is socially acceptable and they are more likely to have success with them.
Secondly, the fact that there are many gay men who are attracted purely to older men -- even people in their fifties and sixties -- is an illustration of the fact that one cannot apply the "youth/child-bearing age" argument directly to gay people. If it were the case virtually all gay men would be attracted purely to young men, regardless of their age. But I get the impression from the gay people I've talked to that the attraction can vary greatly and is not just tied to youthfulness.
There is nothing wrong with having an attraction to youth, but I don't think it's necessarily absurd for me to assume that it might be possible for you to have an attraction to someone at least approaching your own age. Others do. If it is not the case then there is nothing wrong with it; but if you were dating men rather than married it might present problems for you. That is largely what I am worried about myself. Of course, the ideal situation for me is that I will find a partner of my own age or a little younger in the next few years and retain him (or her) for the rest of my life.
David
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13800
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I did mention exceptions 
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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"Some exceptions" implies not many. I would like to think it is more than that. I find the thought that older men may find that prospective boyfriends, or, worse, their wives or partners, become "wholly" unattractive to them physically as they get older a very depressing one. I appreciate that, in the case of marriage or long-term partnership love should take over -- it still doesn't stop me feeling rather unhappy about it all.
David
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Deeej wrote:
> there are many gay men who are attracted purely to older men -- even people in their fifties and sixties -
I'm tempted to ask where are they!
But, seriously, this is very true. And there may be good reasons for this. For any relationship to work longterm, there needs to be a balance between how similar the partners are (so they have things in common) and how different they are (so there is change, growth, discussion). In heterosexual relationships, there will always be difference arising from the different genders of the partners! This is not the case for gay relationships, and there is some evidence to suggest that successful long-term gay relationships are more likely to have partners who come from very different backgrounds than is the case for straight relationships. And two obvious possible differences - which I've noticed among my own acquaintances - are different nationalities, and different generations.
There can be - at least for me - a really big difference between thinking "He's fit!" and "I'd like to spend the rest of my life with him". I find guys of all ages from 16 to 60 sexy, but I generally only get seriously interested in guys in their 30s and early 40s - because I am only interested in a relationship, not casual sex. Perhaps there is something for happily-married guys about *not* fancying males who could in other circumstances be "relationship" material ?
"The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral, begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy. ... Returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night devoid of stars." Martin Luther King
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David,
Please consider moving your shifting age of attraction from the outer limits of the ancient age you state "even people in their fifties and sixties" to fifties and seventies. As I am now approaching 66.
Thank you for any consideration you can give this matter,
Gary
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One wife going on 44 years, two daughters, no progress, still bent.
Gary
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Here they are:
silverdaddies.com
I'm there
Gary
[edited by moderator to leave the information but remove the hyperlink]
[Updated on: Mon, 20 November 2006 20:01] by Moderator |
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It's not up to me -- I'm not into substantially older men (or women). But if you can find someone of any age above the age of consent who's into people in their sixties and seventies, and there's no moral impediment to stop you from participating, then by all means go for it.
David
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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Inquiring minds want to know.........
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13800
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Methinks a simple error of judgement to make it a link, but it was kind of "on topic", so I've compromised and edited to remove the link, but left the information there. People may go or not at their sole discretion, but the tubby naked gentlemen are no longer linked.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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I resent the loose usage of the word "tubby".....::-)
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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I also resent the loose usage of the word "daddy". It sounds positively incestuous. Is that the idea?
David
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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Here, the term "daddy" refers to an older gentelman that is willing to take on the responsibility of a younger paramore.....
The defining factor is basically a very large bankroll.....
Well, that and the willingness to part with some of it.....
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13800
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In heterosxual parlance "Sugar Daddy" is common. I wonder if that is the derivation
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13800
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I think that picture was looser than tubby!
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Cossie,
If you'll forgive my obtuseness, could you please be a little more specific? also, sorry I've taken so long to respond... sleep and work seem to get in the way...
>I was simply asking for clarification of the reason for your reservations.
Teddy
“There's no grays, only white that's got grubby. I'm surprised you don't know that. And sin, young man, is when you treat people as things. Including yourself. That's what sin is.” - Terry Pratchett
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saben
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On fire! |
Registered: May 2003
Messages: 1537
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Don't stress, Deej. I still find 13 year olds atractive and even have a curiousity in them sexually. I think I always will. But my age of attraction has grown and diversified a fair bit over the last couple of years and I think yours will, too. Especially once you have actually been in a relationship. Some straight friends my age get excited when I casually mention the age of consent in Japan being 13, others get disgusted. Very few would probably follow through with anything. The idea of a pubescent partner is appealing to a lot of people on a sexual level. But in practical terms- being almost 6 years older than Ryan can be hard enough at times! You seem like the type of person that wants a relationship, not just sex.
I will probably, honestly be attracted to Ryan "less" on a physical level as he ages, but once I pass my prime of 20-30 (his preferred age-group) I'm sure I will appeal less to him, too. But growing old, sharing a bond together and being madly in love will ensure that we still have wild, awesome sex. We will still find each other attractive, but in a more "distinguished", handsome way than a hot young, clumsy youthful. Sean Connery is still considered quite attractive for his age, after all.
The key thing, I think to a growing age of attraction is actually being with someone of an appropriate age. From time to time I still do fantasise about teenagers younger than Ryan's age, but very seldom am I in the picture anymore! I have my place, after all.
Look at this tree. I cannot make it blossom when it suits me nor make it bear fruit before its time [...] No matter what you do, that seed will grow to be a peach tree. You may wish for an apple or an orange, but you will get a peach.
Master Oogway
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adrain
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Getting started |
Registered: November 2006
Messages: 1
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::-) l think you were born 2.500 years too late.Sighhh!l have read about it in our school libary.Okaaaay....it said that the greek men took a boy as his companion/lover with the concent of the boy father.and in return the man would teach the boy ..ALL about skills and opions that would help him in adult life.lf you want to be a peter pan.Well l can understand.what goverments do in our name.ie going to war.killing because they make it legale to do so.but you can't have a freindship.The love that dare not speak its name.oscar...G.night...adrain
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Aussie
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Really getting into it |
Registered: August 2006
Messages: 475
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Wecome to the board adrain. Have the Greeks changed much in the last 2500 yrs do you think?
Hope you are able to take part in lots of discussions here.
Aussie
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Adrain said:
>Okaaaay....it said that the greek men took a boy as his companion/lover with the concent of the boy father.and in return the man would teach the boy ..ALL about skills and opions that would help him in adult life.lf you want to be a peter pan. Well l can understand.what goverments do in our name.ie going to war.killing because they make it legale to do so.but you can't have a freindship.
There's no problem today with adults mentoring teenagers; the only problem is doing so with sexual intent. There is nothing, legally or ethically, the matter with platonic friendship at any age.
I think it is not uncommon for older gay men to "mentor" much younger gay men or teenagers over the age of consent [16 or 18] -- this might represent an approximation of the Greek relationship, even if Greek boys tended to be a bit younger.
I think it very is difficult for us now to tell to what extent a Greek boy was enthusiastic about a socially-approved relationship with an older man. It may well have worked in many or even most cases (especially if the boy was what we'd now term gay or bisexual) but the power difference between the two parties means that there was great potential for abuse.
I don't think it's like Peter Pan -- the Peter Pan story is about a boy who does not want to grow up (to fall in love or learn about adult affairs) which is pretty much the opposite of the purpose of Greek relationships.
David
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