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LOL are you kidding after all those years of being exposed to the sun, wind and salty environment! My skin is starting to turn to parchment!
People will tell you where they've gone
They'll tell you where to go
But till you get there yourself you never really know
Where some have found their paradise
Other's just come to harm
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Yes, Timmy,
I think I might have done with David. (That is to say settled for less.) But I now think that it couldn't have worked. If he couldn't then and couldn't later have grown to want the relationship with me that I wanted to have with him we would have been at odds or cross purposes of sixes and sevens or not fully compatible sooner or later and it wouldn't have worked just as some gay men married and found it didn't work - usually because they could not bring themselves to admit to their spouses what they really needed.
I don't know whether the word is honesty but it's difficult to be honest with oneself and doubly hard with a partner, especially if the relationship began with less that full honesty. I suspect most people don't want as much closeness and commitment as I do. I couldn't abide being married to a devout christian or muslim or jew. If my partner read and took notice of the horoscopes in the newspapers I would find it hard not to despise them.
Sylvia is a philosopher, like me. She can write programs in APL and J like me. We vote for the same party and agree in our opinions of most politicians.
We agree about sexual morals and sexual education for children.
In fact there isn't much that we could fall out about. Most other couples we know don't share interests and opinions to nearly the extent that we do. I suspect I am multiply blessed!
But on those topics I think that David and I are also agreed! But he isn't a programmer.
Love,
Anthony
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13800
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It would not have mattered. Anything, however short lived.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Im not trying to play the Devils advocate here but I believe that two people having too much in common is detrimental to the relationship. Mark and I had very few things in common and I honestly believe that that is why we were together for so long. Mark was an applied physisit and believe me I could care less if they found a left leaning quark. On the other hand he could have cared less if Costantine became Catholic or not. If he went to a lecture I didnt feel like I had to go just because he was my partner and he didnt feel like he had to go to my lectures. If he went to the store I didnt immediately drop what I was doing to go with him. Its the old saying "familiarity breeds contempt". We both had separate hobbies. The thing is we never got bored with each other. We loved each other more than life. He made me like myself and I made him feel special and defended him. I guess Im trying to say that you dont have to be joined at the hip to be a loving couple.
If you stand for Freedom, but you wont stand for war, then you dont stand for anything worth fighting for.
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Oh and the biggest thing in any relationship is TRUST.
If you stand for Freedom, but you wont stand for war, then you dont stand for anything worth fighting for.
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Welcome to the board, Centaur. I joined last spring after lurking a while and have not regretted it. Yes, a lot of us have sad experiences in common. Your Mike is my Jeff. I married in my mid-thirties and divorced in my early fifties. And yes, indeed, memory can be brutal.
Can't help wondering, Centaur, whether that alias reflects some, uh, aspect of you.
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LOL - I get that question more often than not.
Alas, it is not the reason I picked the name (chuckle). I am - among other things - a C.S. Lewis fan. I read the Chronicles of Narnia at a very young age, and became taken with the Centaur as a fairie being.
Add to that J.K. Rowling, and other writers, and I have kept the name through the years. It is, however, nothing more than that (warm smile).
To your other comment regarding Jeff - it amazing to me how many people identify with that (Timmy's John, my Mike, your Jeff, etc.). I shake my head sadly at the fact that happiness is so elusive.
But thank you for the welcome 
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Anthony:
Are you demanding? No, I don't think so. Each person has their own limits - and challenges to those limits. I understand your points completely.
I've thought often about finding Mike - and I may one day do that. It's not as simple as it seems. I'm not talking about the logistical side of it, although that's not easy. I'm talking more about the emotional side of it.
You see, 25 years is a long time to put space between your heart's last high dive into the deep end. And I don't know what I would do if Mike didn't even give me the time of day. Many people might say "well - at least you would have seem him", but a heart doesn't think that way - a mind does.
I'm not sure what to call it - fear, apprehension, or many other names. All I know is that sometimes, when I'm walking alone with my golden retriever along the beach I think of him. I remember his laugh, his smile, and most of all his eyes.
But life isn't Fantasy Island, as we all know. Life deals out some cards and you make the best hand you can - to push out a bad cliche. But it's true.
So, thank you Anthony for the welcome.
My best,
Centaur
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Thank you Michael!
I've been to Tempe - spent a fair amount of time in Phoenix and Scottsdale, and even really enjoyed Sedona.
You have a beautiful state there.
My best,
Centaur
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I hear you Timmy - and that might very well be true.
We may never know - one way or the other.
But my theory is that we mattered them too much in some ways - ways they were uncomfortable with in the long run.
They chose the route that made sense to them, even though it was not the route we wanted.
They did not follow Robert Frost's advice... which is sad.
Centaur
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unsui
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Likes it here |
Registered: September 2007
Messages: 338
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No Message Body
[Updated on: Fri, 24 October 2008 17:34] |
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unsui
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Likes it here |
Registered: September 2007
Messages: 338
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No Message Body
[Updated on: Fri, 24 October 2008 17:34] |
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Catus amat pisces sed non vult tingere plantas.
Hugs.
J F R
The paradox has often been noted that the United States, founded in secularism, is now the most religiose country in Christendom, while England, with an established church headed by its constitutional monarch, is among the least. (Richard Dawkins, 2006)
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13800
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Centaur wrote:
> But my theory is that we mattered them too much in some ways - ways they were uncomfortable with in the long run.
If we mattered to them I think it is, as you suggest, in a way that they were uncomfortable with. I was so unsure of myself that I followed him round like a puppy, was always, always there whatever he may have wanted. If he was ever my friend I wrecked it.
And yet friendship was the first and main thing I wanted.
I know I made him uncomfortable. I also "know" that he felt something for me. I just have no idea what. And he will not talk to me.
Talk to yours and get closure. I have some sort of closure from mine because he will not speak.
[Updated on: Mon, 22 September 2008 06:14]
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Fingolfin
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Likes it here |
Location: Slovakia
Registered: August 2008
Messages: 265
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We all have them.
In one of the previous threads I wrote: previously bi, now gay, what later?
Well, last year around this time a strange thing happened to me. Before I had always thought of myself as 90 % gay, 10 % straight. It changed... to 100% gay. I've been going out with my girlfriend for almost 3 years now. I told her in January this year. We broke up twice and came together twice. I like her personality, her humour... but, there's the sex part. It's hard for me. Really hard. Last year I also found iomfats.org. It has been my anchor (as well as this forum) since... All of us have their "Johnnies". Mine's name is Michal (Slovak version of Michael). I should be meeting him today at a practice after almost 3 months. He knows I love him. He knows my situation. And he still is a friend. I want him a lot, but he simply can't give that to me. He is a friend. Am I lucky? To an extent, yes... BUT! There are terrible days, when the urge to have someone (most preferably HIM) to make love to, to hug, to kiss, to fondle, to caress... Those are the days when I hate myself and the nature for giving this "gift" to me.
We all have our fears, we all have our pain, yours, Timmy, is a long term one. But I want you to know, that we, at least partially, know how you feel and we ARE YOUR friends. JFR mentioned that your hugs are wonderful. I hope I'll experience that one day...
Largest virtual hug
Marek
It is better to switch on a small light than to curse the darkness.
- Vincent Šikula, Slovak writer
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Brilliant, Michael!
I mean how you brought up your son.
Love,
Anthony
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??? !!! JFR
Cat loves fish but doesn't want to touch plants?
What are you on about?
Am I just thick?
Love,
Anthony
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Planta = sole of a foot. Tingere = to dip in a liquid.
The cat loves fish but does not want to get its feet wet.
"Tu non altro che il canto avrai del figlio, o materna mia terra..."
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Well, Marek,
Your feelings about Michal and mine about David seem to have something in common.
I first met him in October 1955 and told him I loved him in December. I don't now remember how long it took me to get past wanting to hug him but I did and I accepted that I couldn't have him. And we stayed friends and we are still friends. I doubt whether there has ever been more than a couple of years between meetings although he lives in south London and I lived in St Albans (20 miles NW of London) until 1992 and then in Bristol.
Unrequited love is a bitch! I guess all of us face it and handle it differently and when it is 'socially less acceptable' that just makes it harder.
If it were me I guess I'd want to talk to him about it until I got told (as I think David said to me) "You just have to get over it and if you can't stop going on about it I won't go on seeing you."
So, of course I stopped. Gradually, very gradually, I convinced myself there was no future in this game. But maybe not: I didn't find another man to love (although I had enjoyable sex with a few).
Love,
Anthony
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Fingolfin
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Likes it here |
Location: Slovakia
Registered: August 2008
Messages: 265
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My (and his) case is different. I know I can't have him. I know we are friends. I already (or almost?) got over it. No problem there. I like him lots, he is the best guy I have met so far, but for sure not the only one on Earth. I just know, how it feels to experience unreturned love, and how a friendship can develop. I'm glad we are friends. It's way better than to not meet him at all. I'm looking forward to sharing our news from summer.
Marek
It is better to switch on a small light than to curse the darkness.
- Vincent Šikula, Slovak writer
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????
Catus is a cunning man
Tingere means to moisten or to dye
Plantae are twigs or the soles of feet.
You're not thick, Anthony, put there's certainly some working out to do.
Hugs
N
I dream of boys with big bulges in their trousers,
Never of girls with big bulges in their blouses.
…and look forward to meeting you in Cóito.
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pipo
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Toe is in the water |
Registered: July 2008
Messages: 35
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I have been working with the guy I love for 7 years now. I immediately had a big crush on John when I met him in 2001 and I still love him today. Only seeing him at work and getting drunk with him maybe once or twice a year on company get-togethers is not much, but still I wouldn't want to do without it. In the first few years, my efforts to get closer lead to a colleague commenting on it "jokingly" and that embarrassed him. And another guy (who claims to be bisexual himself) tried to play cupid in a very clumsy way and that really embarrassed John - and me, seeing how very uncomfortable it made him.
Now his wife has a new job that takes her away from home for about one week in every three week period, he has invited me over for dinner twice when she was not there (his wife does not like me and from her point of view she is probably quite right about that). Nothing romantic at all - the excuse for the evenings was discussing long-term strategy for our work and that was what we really did, but still I like it that the distance becomes less. And John is a good cook
Often we sit close together working on a problem and that can be agony... feeling his warmth just inches away and not being able to touch. And on rare occasions he does touch me with his body, and even rarer are the cases that it makes him horny too. John has a swimmer's body with broad shoulders, narrow hips and a large ... ehm ... member, so it is obvious when it happens. Alas, those touches are much more rare than before, I believe he notices how it affects me and he is not comfortable with that either.
[Updated on: Mon, 22 September 2008 11:52] |
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Catus is "dog Latin" for cat.
The cat wants fish but refuses to get its paws wet.
It's a medieval proverb - I think I first met it in Chaucer. Not sure.
J F R
The paradox has often been noted that the United States, founded in secularism, is now the most religiose country in Christendom, while England, with an established church headed by its constitutional monarch, is among the least. (Richard Dawkins, 2006)
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Geoffrey Chaucer:
For ye be lyke the sweynte [tired] cat
That wolde have fissh; but wostow what?
He wolde nothing wete his clowes.
Shakespeare also referred to "the cat in the adage".
J F R
The paradox has often been noted that the United States, founded in secularism, is now the most religiose country in Christendom, while England, with an established church headed by its constitutional monarch, is among the least. (Richard Dawkins, 2006)
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13800
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All we have to do is meet. The hug is mandatory
I took a decision when I started this site that I would live out my highs and lows in public. I have enough self confidence to know I am not alone, now, and enough to say "This is me. This is my road. It is not a good road, so do not follow it."
I could bear it if Johnnie were my friend because I would know that is all he could be. But our brief history as ersatz friends tells me that it was different from friendship. I am sure that he, too, had a frisson of something extra.
I would not like to be in your situation, but I could bear it.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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