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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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When one puts forward a hypothesis such as "there is no individual" it is up to one to provide the proofs.
I am an individual. I am not a number, I am a free man. I make my own decisions. You make yours. I will not excuse my decisions based on a "society" that allegedly caused them. If you commit atrocities I will hold you personally responsible.
The men who pistol whipped Matthew Shepherd (whom I can never be sure I have spelled correctly) were not driven by society to do it. They chose to kill him in an appalling way.
I am not missing your point at all. I am striving for a way to say with politeness that the point you are striving to make is at best unusual.
We are not a hive. We are individuals. Society does not cause you to crash your car, your poor decisions do that. Your argument is a massive "it wasn't my fault, guv, honest" cop out. It can not stand unchallenged.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Excuse me if this is presumtious, but it seems that this debate is slowly edging toward anger rather than openennes and mutual discussion that represents what this site is about. So, advice, if you want it, cool, if not, thats cool too. Timmy and Macky, you seem a little too involved at the moment. Take a step back and breath. Think it over and try to see the other's point of view - even if they seem horribly and unconsionably wrong.
I will not say here whom I agree or disagree with, perhaps I'm somewhere in the middle in my oppinions, but I beleive this isshue deserves more disscusion, and perhaps a seperate thread? It seems that it is going off topic, if a free-thought discussion can have a topic at all
A truth told with bad intent
Beats all the lies you can invent
-William Blake
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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Anger? Heavens no. I just can't find a way of explaining that each of us is an individual. That must be society doing that to me. Igf I were truly an individual I could say so easily.
Pardon me while I assimilate myself back into the Borg! Or is this The Matrix?
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Macky
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Really getting into it |
Location: USA
Registered: November 2008
Messages: 973
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It is a sad story. But it is a happy story in a way because he had you and your mom. Even though he could not be himself around anyone, just being there for him is something you can feel good about.
Hey, Mundo, your nickname means world, and Ray means king. I never realized that Raymond or Raymundo means "King of the World". I never realized that before.
Behold, how good and how pleasant it is
For brothers to dwell together in unity!
Ps 133:1 NASB
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Dear JimB,
You wrote:
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I believe that parenting is the most difficult job there is; also the most rewarding and the most thankless, at the same time. We read in the news everyday about people who fail miserably as parents, we seldom hear about the vast majority who succeed wonderfully.
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Hear! Hear! It's the most difficult to do well and the most rewarding (probably only if done at least fairly well!). But I don't regard it as thankless - but it would be a mistake to **expect** thanks, I think. My mother didn't endear herself to me by expecting me to show gratitude - maybe I am an ingrate; maybe she didn't ask in the right way.
I also wonder why you think the vast 'majority succeed wonderfully'. I'd guess that in almost any activity to 'succeed wonderfully' would mean you were in the top 10% if the performance were measured some way.
But it seems to me that a lot of the fairly good parents I know feel they are struggling with difficulty against the odds and some of them are happy that their children aren't actually in prison. And some of them seem to find it difficult to stay friends with their children.
Love,
Anthony
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