I expect simple behaviours here. Friendship, and love. Any advice should be from the perspective of the person asking, not the person giving! We have had to make new membership moderated to combat the huge number of spammers who register
Location: USA
Registered: October 2006
Messages: 484
In addition to Alex's list above, our churches here in Oregon have also been closed down, thought I think it's a strong suggestion rather than an order at this point, but not sure of that. At any rate I just had a guy tell me that our governor, Kate Brown, is the Beast, 666, spoken of in the Bible, and that if I follow orders and refuse to go to church then I will receive the "Mark of the Beast" in my forehead and will burn in hell with the Devil and his angels.Sigh...There's no accounting for the level of ignorance displayed in the throes of a crisis....or even when life is going along as normal.
“There's no grays, only white that's got grubby. I'm surprised you don't know that. And sin, young man, is when you treat people as things. Including yourself. That's what sin is.” - Terry Pratchett
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13806
One area that I find aggravating, especially since I have 'underlying health conditions' is the dehumanisation of those of us who have them. Asthma is assuredly not my fault. One might argue that T2 Diabetes is, but I am not obese. I have cases of Diabetes on both sides of my family and may be genetically predisposed to it.
Our announcements of deaths are quite appalling. "A male patient of 59 died. He had underlying health conditions [which means that was fine because the fucker deserved to die. He was less than human because he had those underlying health conditions]."
I find that deeply objectionable on so many levels. What do we get next? "He was Gay / Black / Chinese / Jewish / Muslim? That's fine. Only we white, fit, heterosexual Christians deserve to live?"
That is the only thing that has made me feel in any way lonely at the moment
To continue the humorous side, because we must to stay sane...at least on this side of the pond the outrage is coupled with constant humor. Trump can't seem to open his mouth without being either self-aggrandizing, stupid or outrageous.
As a wit put together on Twitter this morning, after today's performance, here's Anthony Fauci, MD, in a state of chagrin!
Location: USA
Registered: October 2006
Messages: 484
Continuing the humor theme:
The Toilet Paper shortage is because of the RAPTURE ... When the ROLL is called up yonder!
“There's no grays, only white that's got grubby. I'm surprised you don't know that. And sin, young man, is when you treat people as things. Including yourself. That's what sin is.” - Terry Pratchett
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13806
"Bensiamin wrote on Sat, 21 March 2020 02:55"
Timmy;
I agree completely, but humor does have therapeutic (note British spelling!) functions:
--
Ah, gallows humour is not being unnecessarily cheerful. Instead it is essential.
There is a certainty that some of us will die from this. Being unnecessarily cheerful is your example of '1% man", who is clearly amusing himself by trolling.
Looking again at the UK figures, and remembering that we only test, thus diagnose, those who are both inherently vulnerable and also present with symptoms, our death rate from those diagnosed is 4.4%
Our graph is interesting:
It seems to be rather wide, but the forum seems to have started to embiggen stuff
Location: New York, upstate
Registered: October 2017
Messages: 98
"Teddy wrote on Thu, 19 March 2020 15:31"
........ I just had a guy tell me that our governor, Kate Brown, is the Beast, 666, spoken of in the Bible, and that if I follow orders and refuse to go to church then I will receive the "Mark of the Beast" in my forehead and will burn in hell with the Devil and his angels......
--
You must really live in Podunk! My condolences.....
Location: Earth
Registered: April 2013
Messages: 284
"Teddy wrote on Thu, 19 March 2020 13:31"
In addition to Alex's list above, our churches here in Oregon have also been closed down, thought I think it's a strong suggestion rather than an order at this point, but not sure of that. At any rate I just had a guy tell me that our governor, Kate Brown, is the Beast, 666, spoken of in the Bible, and that if I follow orders and refuse to go to church then I will receive the "Mark of the Beast" in my forehead and will burn in hell with the Devil and his angels.Sigh...There's no accounting for the level of ignorance displayed in the throes of a crisis....or even when life is going along as normal.
--
I've seen a lot of church closures where I live as well, though so far (from what little I've read on it) it's more the decisions of the churches themselves rather than the government outright telling them to close down (though it could also, to a certain extent, be the churches basing their decisions on what the government is recommending as far as large gatherings - last Sunday (the 15th), the Centers for Disease Control issued a recommendation that no more than 50 people gather together, while the White House recommended the next day that it be no more than 10 people).
And here in America, it sometimes does seem like most of our politicians are in league with the Devil. I mean seriously, have you seen some of the stuff they do?
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13806
I wonder if those who have faith and felt the need to go to a building and perform rhythmic chanting in the past will realise that they just need to worship their deity where they are, and NOT give money to Mr Preacher Man.
Instead they can offer direct help to people who truly need it
Location: USA
Registered: October 2006
Messages: 484
"American_Alex wrote on Sat, 21 March 2020 06:52"
"Teddy wrote on Thu, 19 March 2020 15:31"
........ I just had a guy tell me that our governor, Kate Brown, is the Beast, 666, spoken of in the Bible, and that if I follow orders and refuse to go to church then I will receive the "Mark of the Beast" in my forehead and will burn in hell with the Devil and his angels......
--
You must really live in Podunk! My condolences.....
--
No, not really, but it would seem that some people live in a continuous fog of conspiracy theory no matter where they live.
“There's no grays, only white that's got grubby. I'm surprised you don't know that. And sin, young man, is when you treat people as things. Including yourself. That's what sin is.” - Terry Pratchett
Location: USA
Registered: October 2006
Messages: 484
If we don't flatten the curve, yes. That's exactly were every contry or locality is headed. For some localities it may well already be too late to stave off the same fate as Italy.
[Updated on: Mon, 23 March 2020 23:15]
“There's no grays, only white that's got grubby. I'm surprised you don't know that. And sin, young man, is when you treat people as things. Including yourself. That's what sin is.” - Terry Pratchett
Location: Seaofstars
Registered: August 2003
Messages: 563
Thing is, as a last ditch, anyone that dire needs to have family (if they can't do it them selve) ask for zinc and hydroxychloroquine....
people in Nigeria are poisoning them selve taking it without the direction of their doc's. This is why 🍊 idiots needs to sit down and shut the vuck up.
zinc and hydroxychloroquine are in clinical trials right now for covid 19 but thing is these are approved and are not toxic or of limited toxicity in the case of hydroxychloroquine. I figure that depends on other condition that may increase the risk. But then is it any riskier than death?
There is no certainty of the efficacy of this combo in the treatment of covid 19. But it it has shown to be effective in SARS so If you or a loved one were in serious condition what would you do?
I can tell you if it was me, they would have to have a dammed good reason for refusing me That as a last request.
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13806
"arich wrote on Tue, 24 March 2020 00:00"
Thing is, as a last ditch, anyone that dire needs to have family (if they can't do it them selve) ask for zinc and hydroxychloroquine....
people in Nigeria are poisoning them selve taking it without the direction of their doc's. This is why 🍊 idiots needs to sit down and shut the vuck up.
zinc and hydroxychloroquine are in clinical trials right now for covid 19 but thing is these are approved and are not toxic or of limited toxicity in the case of hydroxychloroquine. I figure that depends on other condition that may increase the risk. But then is it any riskier than death?
There is no certainty of the efficacy of this combo in the treatment of covid 19. But it it has shown to be effective in SARS so If you or a loved one were in serious condition what would you do?
I can tell you if it was me, they would have to have a dammed good reason for refusing me That as a last request.
--
I really do not want to be promoting any medicines that are not proven in this particular ailment please.
Location: Seaofstars
Registered: August 2003
Messages: 563
Sure thing Timmy. Though I have to say we are all going to have some hard choices.
Life as we knew is done. This is not going to be easy.
I've lived as part of a pandemic for more than 20 years, gives me kind of a perspective. Mostly the drugs early on were killing people. How many do you think refused.
Reality. Actually there were a few, but mostly only because the drugs were making them sicker.
I'll fu** right off now.
Fair the well all. I mean that with all my heart. Me? I'll be ok.
A little context, perhaps! I spent a career in healthcare selling medical equipment to the US Government for military and emergency response...and the data does matter.
Italy has a health care system with a higher quality ranking than the US, and more doctors and beds per person than the US.
BUT, The United States has about 30 Intensive Care Unit beds per 100,000 people, which is very similar to Germany. Italy has about 2 ICU beds per 100,000.
I've been talking to peers and former colleagues, and they believe this is why we see the rationing of intensive care in Italy, and the mortality which results from such measures.
Right now there is no treatment for COVID-19. Hosptialized patients receive supportive care, and that varies depending on capability and capacity. Without enough ICU beds, the level of supportive care is poor - i.e. no ventilators. With more ICU beds (and ventilators!), then the quality of supportive care is much higher, and (in theory) the mortality rate is much lower.
A doctor friend also told me that a much larger clinical trial is going on at UCLA to test the two malarial drugs agains the COVID-19 coronavirus. Perhaps it will result in a treatment. Right now we don't have one, and that is a huge vulnerability. Think AIDS epidemic before Azidothymidine, which was not introduced until 1987!
Location: Seaofstars
Registered: August 2003
Messages: 563
Least we forget AIDS has killed at least 32 million.
And I do know the state of things, I am on a community advisory board for the clinical trials unit of the infectious disease department in a teaching hospital.
BTW clinical trials for those drugs have been going on in China for some time now and Korea. From what I understand the results have been very positive.
zinc is a supplement approved by the FDA chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine are both approved drugs. Not all are going to be able to take those drugs even if they do prove to be effective against covid 19. Just saying how many time have you heard of people in desperate need seeking out drug that are still in trials? If you say never. Well, we make of our selves what we are.
What the heck, there have only been a little less 19000 deaths so far, how many in 6 months to a year or more?
Actually what we need to begin with is test that are better that the max 70% accuracy we have now. The antibody test will be better but at best the won't be approved for more than a couple of weeks. Meanwhile, we have people that are asymptomatic walking around spreading the virus. We are going to be shocked by the extent of spread, we already know the extent is at least twice the numbers we know we have at present.... I hope I am wrong. But I am afraid I am not. In other words the curve is already set and little to do to ameliorate what's been set in motion.
But that's OK we have 30 beds for every 100,000 people. Me thinks it's going to get crowded.
To tell you the truth as soon as the antibody test is ready I'll be taking it, at least it will be more accurate that what we have going now. If it is as I think and I do indeed have the antibodies I'll be ready for action. Cuz I am not sitting this one out.
so I will well and truly be going now. been interesting, but then we've never seen times quite like this, don't know if we'll look back and call it interesting. We will not be the same. The first thing to go will be many lives then materialism. 😱. Gone 🎣 later.
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13806
The challenge is that the internet is seen as authoritative by folk, Rich. I guarantee that as soon as I am in a deeply vulnerable position I will grasp for any passing straw from any source. That you may be wholly correct about these things cannot mean that the information is yet authoritative. It also may prove to be that you are not correct and that the information you are receiving turns out to have been misleading, and has misled many people including you.
I'm seeing a whole slew of emailed spam containing strange(!) advice right now. I just want to make sure that we, here, are authoritative. I know you are not doing this, but imagine if you were accidentally recommending this fool and snake oil salesman.
Location: USA
Registered: October 2006
Messages: 484
So the orange baboon got up at in the White House briefing room the other evening and started promoting Chloroquine as a potential cure saying it was FDA approved for this crisis. It is not and the FDA issued a statement saying so following his pressor. But that didn't stop a husband and wife from hearing what he said and taking Chloroquine Phosphate, a product developed for cleaning aquariums, which resulted in his death and her hospitilazation.
On the one hand I think the couple are due to receive a Darwin Award and Darwin Award honorable mention. On the other hand the Orange baboon must bear some of the responsibility for lying to the nation and the world about it. Total stupidity on their part, and the president's for bringing it up in a totally inappropriate setting and manner, and lying about it on top of it all.
“There's no grays, only white that's got grubby. I'm surprised you don't know that. And sin, young man, is when you treat people as things. Including yourself. That's what sin is.” - Terry Pratchett
Location: USA
Registered: October 2006
Messages: 484
Here in the US we're watching the Pro-Lifers clamoring for the elderly to be willing to die... Why am I not surprised?
“There's no grays, only white that's got grubby. I'm surprised you don't know that. And sin, young man, is when you treat people as things. Including yourself. That's what sin is.” - Terry Pratchett
And, in the spirit of a wee bit of comic relief after that last update about the Pro-Lifers (being the Evangelicals and other committed christians, etc.), I give you this:
THE MEANING OF DONALD TRUMP'S CORONAVIRUS QUACKERYA very illuminating article in today's The New Yorker magazine, with this intriguing byline: "...his conduct typified his leadership as the crisis has intensified: his dependency on Fox News for ideas and message amplification, his unshakable belief in his own genius..."
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13806
This dangerous idiot will get you all killed in the USA. You have too much deference to the role of president for the media to take him down and say clearly that he lies. They are too polite.
Location: USA
Registered: October 2006
Messages: 484
"timmy wrote on Tue, 31 March 2020 00:13"
This dangerous idiot will get you all killed in the USA. You have too much deference to the role of president for the media to take him down and say clearly that he lies. They are too polite.
--
Indeed. From the very beginning of Trump's presidential campaign, the news media, whom the evengelical christian idiots here declare is biased against them, and is fake, were stumbling all over themselves to put him on the pedestal of their coverage. They dogged his every step MAKING him THE STORY. They're still doing it today, and even though they know he's an ass and a liar they won't really report that he is, they work around the edges of it but won't say it. Yes, the talking head cable shows call him out but the nightly news programs on TV and radio and the newspapers do not unless you read the opinion pages of the paper but very few people actually do that.
“There's no grays, only white that's got grubby. I'm surprised you don't know that. And sin, young man, is when you treat people as things. Including yourself. That's what sin is.” - Terry Pratchett
Location: Earth
Registered: April 2013
Messages: 284
For what it's worth on Trump, I read a little while back that (it is claimed, at least) that no U.S. President running for reelection has ever "survived" a recession (meaning that if there's a recession going on during the time that they're running for reelection, that they wind up losing said reelection bid). So I suppose that those who want Trump to go bye-bye (and I'll admit that if he resiged from office right now, I wouldn't exacty shed any tears of sorrow) can always hope that it's true and contiunes to be so.
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13806
Unlike some of the quackery online right now, even if useless, this one can do no harm, and seems worthy of passing onwards. It is rooted in obvious facts. No pills, no potions, no cost. Indeed, the only one who benefits is the person performing the routine
A retired NHS paramedic friend of mine has validated it thus
Quote:
We know this is a reality. If we watch the Italian hospitals where they had patients laying (prone) on their chest.
Gotta say though, it'll be a brave few who when in this predicament who will actually try this. And I'd be one of them!
] 
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Re: Covid 19 - Coronavirus 
