I expect simple behaviours here. Friendship, and love. Any advice should be from the perspective of the person asking, not the person giving! We have had to make new membership moderated to combat the huge number of spammers who register
Location: USA
Registered: October 2006
Messages: 484
"Bensiamin wrote on Wed, 22 July 2020 17:38"
Here's another equally depressing fact: over 40% of homeless youth are LGBTQ. You know, most of them from the type of conservatives Christian homes you described.
--
In the volunteer work I've done over the last 15 years I've run across many young men and women, but mostly young men who were raised in this kind of home. the case of one young man in particular stands out in my mind in horrifying relief. Here's the short version of his story:
Jerry, I'll call him, was raised in the home of an Evagelical pastor who worked on the staff of the Evengelical radio ministry, Insight for living. The founder and speaker of that ministry was, maybe still is but I've not looked it up, a man by the name of Dr. Charles Swindoll. At the time this event took place the ministry was based out of the Calvary Chapel in Fullerton, CA.
As Jerry entered his teen years however, he began to realize he was gay and finally went to his parents for help. They sent him to a conversion therapy camp somewhere in the southeast where the director there raped him several times a week before sending him home in disgrace to his family telling them that he was unable to help Jerry because Jerry refused to cooperate with the program.
Jerry's dad, instead of taking him back home from the airport took him directly to West Hollywood and dropped him on on a street corner telling him never to return home. Jerry went through some rough times and was eventually taken in by a man who produced underage gay pornography. Jerry become the man's companion and "lover" and was eventually responsible for breaking in all the new boys the man brought into the stable.
There was drugs, of course, and Jerry became addicted but he persevered and after graduating from the online home school high school program went on to kick his drug habit and graduate with honors from UCLA.
Jerry was one of the lucky ones, I suppose, in that he survived but the cost was high. He was HIV+ and had a great deal to overcome, the biggest of which, other than the HIV was his anger issues.
I lost track of Jerry several years ago so I don't know whatever happened to him. His social media accounts went dormant then vanished.
I get angry when thinking of the throw away young men and women out there, LGBT+ or otherwise who, through the negligence or gross misconduct of their parents end up on the street. I get very angry when it comes to kids like Jerry who are throw out by families who claim to be participants in a religion of love. I don't have near the problem with the tennents of the religion as I do with the willfilly ignorant and power hungry adherants to the religion. If they would stop and logically think about it I don't see how they could possibly act in the way they do. But I guess that's the point, isn't it? They don't think. The react according to their own selfishness. smh...
“There's no grays, only white that's got grubby. I'm surprised you don't know that. And sin, young man, is when you treat people as things. Including yourself. That's what sin is.” - Terry Pratchett
Location: Hillmorton UK
Registered: December 2014
Messages: 26
Given all this, it's truly amazing that the bible makes almost no references to homosexuality, whether for, or against. Leviticus might appear to take a veiw, certainly, but most scholars are of the opinion that what little it has to say on the subject is used entirely out of context. It has been pointed out that Jesus himself might not have been as straight as the church would have us believe. Doubtless Jesus, as all of us do, loved his diciples in the same way we love our friends. No big surprise, right? Yet the New Testament specifically makes mention thus; .... especially John, who Jesus loved...
Please note that this is only my personal opinion, but if the scriptures are to be taken seriously as the Word of God manifesting itself through the writings of his devout followers, and not, as I suspect, an early example of mass indoctrination, why is it that when compiling the King James version of the Bible, so many books were edited out? Try Googling Missing books of the bible and you'll be surprised at the amount of stuff that's been tossed into the trash bin.
The bible, so it would appear, is just propaganda stitched together by powerful people, not God, in an attempt to brainwash the masses into accepting their rules, and deliberately omitting that which they saw as subversive and contrary to their veiws.
And to think we're still buying into this crap....
I have previously mentioned the publications of Jonathan on sexuality and theology, and last month he published one on this very subject titled The Man Who Outed Jesus, about the scholarship of Theodore Jennings who studied the Messiah's sexuality.
It's also about the war Jennings had to fight against the religious institution's position. It's quite eye opening and discusses some of the issues around John, the beloved disciple too!
As if we didn't already know how extreme is the hypocrisy of evangelical christian leadership, Jerry Falwell Jr. (he who condems same sex marriage and homosexuality and makes constant noise about moral purity, etc.) just got caught for what he is when he posted a vacation picture on Instagram.
Relevant magazine broke the piece showing Falwell and his "young female friend" both proudly standing with their zippers down...and then the picture disappeared off the Instagram account!
You can read the article (yes, and see the picture!) here
There's a good reason Franky Schaeffer titled his "tell all" book about evangelical leadership "Crazy For God!"
Location: USA
Registered: October 2006
Messages: 484
One has to wonder why he thought it was a good idea to post it to his IG. Unless he thought he was sending or posting it privately.
And of couse he says he didn't do it. Denial is the only plausible route he has available. But it's becoming more clear by the month
that he's not what he says he is. Everyone knows it at this point except for those addicted to denial, and for him, they're the only
ones who count.
This is the guy who has the ear of the president and who is bent on damaging/destroying the LGBT+ movement, community, and
individuals. smh
“There's no grays, only white that's got grubby. I'm surprised you don't know that. And sin, young man, is when you treat people as things. Including yourself. That's what sin is.” - Terry Pratchett
Conversion Therapy is alive and well, a subject Teddy has commented on regularly. To illustrate how retrograde things are in the US (compared to the EU), did you know:
Only 19 states have outlawed conversion therapy
Meaning only 47% of LGBTQ Americans live in states where it is banned;
And 3% of LGBTQ Americans live in states that have only partially banned it;
Leaving 50% of LGBTQ Americans living in states with no laws that ban conversion therapy for minors!
It goes without saying that the major promoters of conversion therapy continue to be religions, especially evangelical Christianity. In spite of a number of leaders of Christian conversion therapy recanting, or even coming out themselves as LGBTQ, it is still a real problem and a complex subject area.
A good, short read on the current state of things is a piece on Medium by Elizabeth Lind titled Conversion Therapy in America.
Location: USA
Registered: October 2006
Messages: 484
So Falwell has been asked to take an "indefinite leave of absence" frorm his position as President and Chancelor of Liberty Univerrsity.
After first denying the photo was real he now says it was taken aboard a yacht during a "costume party".
“There's no grays, only white that's got grubby. I'm surprised you don't know that. And sin, young man, is when you treat people as things. Including yourself. That's what sin is.” - Terry Pratchett
Location: USA
Registered: October 2006
Messages: 484
Re: Conversion Therapy
Those figure do not surprise me in the least. I am, however, glad progress has been made here in the states to limit its scope.
I have a young cousin; well, a child of cousin, currrently in his early 20's, whose parents turned him over to the operators of a
conversion therapy "camp" in central America some years ago when he was 14 years old. It was one of those horror story
situations where the child is kidnapped with permission of the parents, with no warrning, at night while they are sleeping. He
was down there somewhere between 6 and 12 months and when he came back home all the "sparkle" was gone from his life.
He went from a kid with ambition and stars in his eyes to one who was drifting with no purpose. I find it very disturbing and
unsettling. He's still a mess. I've reached out to him but he seems to be in no place to respond.
“There's no grays, only white that's got grubby. I'm surprised you don't know that. And sin, young man, is when you treat people as things. Including yourself. That's what sin is.” - Terry Pratchett
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
"Teddy wrote on Sat, 08 August 2020 01:22"
So Falwell has been asked to take an "indefinite leave of absence" frorm his position as President and Chancelor of Liberty Univerrsity.
After first denying the photo was real he now says it was taken aboard a yacht during a "costume party".
--
There will now be a short pause for a caption competition to name Captain Zipper and his slag lady(!) friend. Twitter prevents my inhaling the unsavoury picture here, but then, who wants to see that?
So Falwell has been asked to take an "indefinite leave of absence" frorm his position as President and Chancelor of Liberty Univerrsity.
After first denying the photo was real he now says it was taken aboard a yacht during a "costume party".
--
There will now be a short pause for a caption competition to name Captain Zipper and his slag lady(!) friend. Twitter prevents my inhaling the unsavoury picture here, but then, who wants to see that?
"
--
Zip-a-dee-doo-dah, zip-a-dee-ay My, oh, my, what a wonderful day
Location: Europe
Registered: July 2019
Messages: 104
I recently got in contact with a new author who's book I am reading, his first story Damien the Shy Boy. It may well appear on here soon if it gets accepted for publication. It isn't a story that would be rejected on content, however the author is Polish, so English is his second language. There are a few quirky English sentences, but in a way it adds to the authenticity, because the protanganist is recounting his life in post communist Poland, circa the end of the nineties.
This introduction brings me to the point of this post - it's not a plug for his book - it is to give people a glimpse into one gay person's view on life in Poland. I truly believe it is enlightening to know what life is like for gay people in different countries and what better than a personal account. So reproduced here with Arch Hunter's kind permission is a view on gay life in Poland today.
...living in one of the major cities, being gay is hardly an issue for me. There are several openly gay people in the company I work for and even one couple that met there. I'm attending all family meetings, parties and weddings with my boyfriend and no one bats an eye, old or young. But there has been some public outrage you might have heard of. The thing is, homosexuality hadn't even been discussed until about 15 years ago publicly. So now that gays started being heard by society and fighting for their rights, there are many angry conservative voices opposing. And yes, the currently ruling conservative political party only adds to the fire by discretely supporting nationalists and using occasional hate speech. I think it is the worst for kids living in small cities and villages in conservative families and the politicians are partially responsible for all bullying they face. But for me, living in Wrocław, it's hardly an issue. I myself originally come from a small town and of course there was no way I could come out when living there. I would even risk saying that it's better than ever to be gay in Poland. There is some conflict and we are still far from legalizing marriages but that's infinitely better than the nation-wide don't ask don't tell policy that persisted for decades.
In the latest developments at Liberty University concerning Jerry Falwell, Jr. and the forced leave brought about by his now infamous "open zipper" social media photo with a woman other than his wife...don't assume anything will change in terms of Liberty University and the role it play in the culture wars against LGBTQ people. In fact, it might get worse!
As LGBTQ Nation reported today, Falwell has been replaced by Jerry Prevo as Acting President. Prevo is currently President of the Liberty University board.
Prevo has a long history of anti-LGBTQ everything, from founding the Moral Majority in Alaska, to wreaking culture war havoc in Alaska politics, to withdrawing his church from Boy Scouts after they stopped condemning gay youth and accepting them into Scouts, and on and on.
That Prevo is a real bigoted piece of work you can tell not only from his Falwell/Moral Majority/Liberty University connection, but by whom he invited to share the stage with him when he preached his last sermon before retiring!
Chains and Padlocks tell the story, and the counterpoint is that no one should be taken in by the church's (in this case the Catholic church) positive sounding words about accepting LGBTQ persons.
The complete ban on LGBTQ people from the Detroit Archdiocese was reported yesterday by LGGBTQ Nation.
Dignity Detroit, a group of LGBTQ Catholics who gather together to worship, has met for 45 years with the blessing of the church hierarchy. Fortunate Families Detroit, a support group for queer families, was also "forbidden from meeting in any parish church, chapel, or institution of the Archdiocese of Detroit," according to a letter sent to the group.
The clergy is not longer allowed to associate with Dignity Detroit and they're not allowed in any Catholic parish. To add insult to injury, the Archdiocese "invited" LGBTQ organization to join their ministry for people with same-sex attractions, which turns out to be a 12-step conversion therapy program!
When you get down to what's behind this and how/why did it happen, it all hinges on one short phrase: "ministry that is faithful to the teachings of Christ's Church."
As Al_N has pointed out here and as we detail on the pageIt's the Underlying Doctrine that Causes the Real Harm!It doesn't really matter what the Pope or the leaders in any other church say publicly. Until and unless the underlying doctrine changes, nothing has really changed. The Roman Catholic catechism hasn't changed and homosexuality is still defined as intrinsically and gravely disordered behavior.
That's what the phrase "faithful to the teachings of Christ's Church" means. And when you look at the equivalent of the Catholic catechism in other churches (their doctrinal statements or confessional statement, etc.) you'll find most are still in a very similar position-defining homosexuality as a depraved sin.
One could make the case of giving credit to the Archbishop of Detroit for being consistent with the Church's teachings. At least he's not being hypocritical about it. Cruel and heartless, yes! But, not hypocritical!
While Trump is praising himself as the most pro-gay President ever (see Trump Laugh of the Week), he and his administration are steadily eroding LGBTQ rights already in place.
The United States Agency for International Development (USAID) released a draft text for a revised version of their Gender Equality and Women's Empowerment Policy, removing several references to LGBTQ people that were included in the previous version from 2012. Get that? Gender Equality and they've removed references to LGBTQ people!
The previous version defined gender-based violence, and listed types of organizations that USAID should work with including lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender advocates--those have been removed from the 2020 version.
The Fallen Angel and the Anti-LGBTQ Republican Platform
Most of us, whether in America or overseas, are only curious about the Republican convention taking place this week for its litany of darkness and out right lies. There are some details that matter, though!
The photo above is one taken of Jerry Falwell Jr. endorsing the Republican platform in 2016, including its Anti-LGBTQ positions. It's comically ludicrous given that last week Trump claimed he is the 'most pro-gay President ever," and the recent fall from grace of Jerry Falwell Jr.
Why does this matter today? It illustrates two things. First, the degree to which self-serving hypocrisy is a vein that runs very deep in the Evangelical Christian world. After the Falwell sex scandal broke (Falwell and his wife have three-way sex with a pool boy) and he resigned from Liberty University, we learn today that Franklin Graham's grand-daughter Jerushah Duford has split with the family and joined the Lincoln Project which is working to unseat Trump because of four years of "blatant misogyny, civil unrest and failed leadership." So, while there is unrest in some corners of Evangelical-land, the vast majority still strongly support Trump and his agenda.
But, back to the Anti-LGBTQ Republican platform. The current one adopted by the RNC is simply a restatement of the 2016 platform which Falwell, Graham and other evangelical leaders all endorsed:
What's worth noting is:
The GOP's 2020 platform "condemns" marriage equality, which has been legal across the United States for five years and is supported by two in three Americans.
The GOP's platform supports Trump's efforts to legalize anti-LGBTQ discrimination.
The GOP platform endorses Trump's cruel and widely unpopular ban on transgender people serving openly in the military.
The GOP platform endorses discrimination against LGBTQ parents, families, students, workers, individuals experiencing homelessness, and customers.
As an earlier Forum post this year points out, this is all a part of successfully waging the religious culture wars which have as their goals overturning both legalized abortion and same-sex marriage rights.
Trump, Falwell and all the rest are self-serving crooks, but they're also sold out to the culture wars agenda, and LGBTQ people are one of the targets!
Location: USA
Registered: October 2006
Messages: 484
"Likes to watch"
Hahaha... So it would seem! I think there's a word for that, yes? hahahaha
“There's no grays, only white that's got grubby. I'm surprised you don't know that. And sin, young man, is when you treat people as things. Including yourself. That's what sin is.” - Terry Pratchett
Thanks to the Graham's for crystalizing the message!
One of the problems for LGBTQ people of faith is that very often there is a major contrast (often actual conflict) between what their pastor/priest or church says publicly, and what the formal church creed to belief statement says. Most people don't know that the majority of churches still condemn homosexual behavior as depraved and severely restrict the roles they can play in churches. See the table on our LGBTQ and Faith page.
Even in some Evangelical circles the "put a nice face on it" approach is most common, though it is becoming more strident as the culture wars heat up. It feels like it's coming to a boil now as the campaign for President hits full speed.
Tuesday night Cissie Lynch, daughter of Franklin Graham and granddaughter of Billie Graham essentially crystalized the message: if you're opposed to LGBTQ rights you have to vote for Donald Trump. The rational for this came in her supporting arguments that Trump has been an advocate for "people of faith," that he's appointed conservative judges, he's ensured religious ministries would not be forced to violate their beliefs, and he'll promote religious freedom...like, for instance, Christian bakers not having to back wedding cakes for LGBTQ people!
This isn't just religious rhetoric, as we can see by what has been undone during this administration. Translate the agenda that Lynch and Graham and company promote into practical terms and it means a roll back of anti-discrimination rights and same-sex marriage rights! In their frenzy to re-elect Donald Trump, at least they are becoming clearer and clearer about what they believe and what they want!
We've taken a short detour to observe the Jerry Falwell Jr. mess because few things are more satisfying than seeing a religious hypocrite taken down, especially if its done to themselves by themselves! Particularly so if said hypocrite is an active homophobe.
As Timothy Egan said today in the NY Times, "Hypocrisy among holy rollers in high places is as old as the stones of Rome's first church. But in this case, the tie to Trump's world is telling: Becki Falwell, wife of the disgraced evangelical, was on the advisory board of Women For Trump. She appeared in a campaign video last year promoting--what else?--traditional family values!
The single best summary of this scandal, with all the insightful humor he brings to bear, was delivered by Stephen Colbert!
This is the latest stunt to try and get beyond demeaning the military and lying about the COVID pandemic - promising his base even more conservative judges.
No one should forget this is part of a package deal driven by the conservative christians: rescind abortion rights and rescind same-sex marriage!
Cotton is what has to be described as savagely conservative!
You can read the LGBTQ article about Cotton, Curz and Hawley, the top contenders, and their history on the subject by clicking here
The death of Ruth Bader Ginsburg opened a seat on the US Supreme Court and a host of political machinations that will be all consuming, but also brings into focus a real threat to both women's rights and LGBTQ rights in the United States.
I think it is poorly understood how pivotal RBG has been in the achievement of the level of LGBTQ rights that have come to almost be taken for granted in this country. James Finn chronicles her role in Supreme Court decisions and addresses that point in a very important and well written article in Medium.
I won't reiterate the whole piece, but will share these two quotes to make the case.
She was our champion and the architect of an expansive vision of gender equality that was broad and capacious enough to include LGBT people.
He goes on to point out that religious conservatives are calling for a reigning in of human rights, and says:
All the decisions Ginsburg participated in were hotly contested. Conservatives are demanding a return to older ways, shaken by the Court's recognition of our basic human rights. President Trump, if he is able to fill Ginsburg's seat with such a conservative, may achieve the dream of his Evangelical Christian base: forcing LGBTQ people to live second-class lives with second-class rights.
It should be lost on no one that what is given can be taken away, and that religious conservatives have been working hard on a disenfranchisement agenda for years, and the main targets of that agenda are abortion and same-sex marriage.
Get involved. Support the organizations that are working to preserve our rights. The stakes are getting very high!
Location: USA
Registered: October 2006
Messages: 484
No, It is not poorly understood, at least by myself and those I hang with. Even should we get Trump out of office and the GOP out of contol of the US Senate, We are quite likely in the next few years to see marriage equality for LGBTQ persons here in the US be revoked.
[Updated on: Tue, 22 September 2020 15:23] by Moderator
“There's no grays, only white that's got grubby. I'm surprised you don't know that. And sin, young man, is when you treat people as things. Including yourself. That's what sin is.” - Terry Pratchett
The nomination of a replacement judge to the Supreme Court in the USA is already amping up to the level of being quasi-hysterical and totally partisan.
That said, there are serious concerns the all LGBTQ people should be well aware of.
The "balanced LGBTQ Catholic view" (and, yes, there is such a thing!) is that Amy Coney Barrett is actually an even handed Judge, at the 7th Circuit Courts of Appeals...and is actually a moderate who rarely lets her personal politics sway her legal opinions. I received that from a knowledgeable Catholic friend who is gay, who can add to this post if he so chooses.
That said, this is a major area of concern that bears watching because it carries huge risk for the LGBTQ community that you can read about in today's LGBTQ Nation, and is summarized in this quote:
In 2015, just after the Supreme Court legalized marriage equality in all 50 states in the Obergefell v. Hodges decision, she signed an open letter supporting the Catholic Church's teachings "on the meaning of human sexuality, the significance of sexual difference and the complementarity of men and women; on openness to life and the gift of motherhood; and on marriage and family founded on the indissoluble commitment of a man and a woman."
And the problem? It is summed up in the following from the IOMFATS pages on LGBTQ and Faith:
In the Roman Catholic tradition, the common term is that homosexuality is an intrinsic moral disorder, and thus you're intrinsically immoral if you are gay, but when you drill down in the doctrine you find that it is also a mortal sin (Latin: peccatum mortale ) meaning it is a gravely sinful act, which can lead to damnation if a person does not repent of the sin before death. A sin is considered to be "mortal" when its quality is such that it leads to a separation of that person from God's saving grace. Another way to say it would be perverse and damned.
If one subscribes to the Catholic Church's teachings, then one is not only opposed to same-sex marriage, one has to believe that being homosexual is a mortal sin. (Get that? The state of being homosexual is a mortal sin!) I find it very hard to believe that any judge can be completely objective about either subject with that kind of underlying commitment. A recent example is what happened to homosexuals in the Diocese of Detroit, as detailed in the August 14 post above.
We'll have to wait and see, but the practical problem is that Obergefell v. Hodges is only five years old, and that hardly qualifies as being an established legal tradition, particularly when those making the decisions are fundamentally committed to opposing beliefs. Laws that don't carry with them the weight of established legal tradition are not hard to overturn!
For those in the US who are overwhelmed with all the Trump craziness and electoin news, this landmark event, and its corresponding threat to LGBTQ rights, should not be missed.
The apology rendered was about her continual use of the term "sexual preference," religious code work for being gay is a choice, and which goes against almost 50 years of medical and psychiatric research and publications.
In a parallel position statement, about climate change, she also said, "I'm not a scientist!" This is a big deal in America.
And if this doesn't prove (to their everlasting shame!) that in the end it's all about winning the culture wars (including rescinding same sex marriage), I don't know what does!
Location: USA
Registered: October 2006
Messages: 484
Well, as I recall, the Christ for whom Christianity was named said that wolves dressed up as sheep would be running loose among the flock! Go, Preacher, GO! The whole christianity thing is a sham driven by greed for money, power, and authority.
“There's no grays, only white that's got grubby. I'm surprised you don't know that. And sin, young man, is when you treat people as things. Including yourself. That's what sin is.” - Terry Pratchett
A COUNTER TO THE RELIGIOUS RIGHT'S ASSAULT ON LGBTQ RIGHTS happened in the election in the State of Nevada, though it almost got lost in the close counting for the Presidential race.
Specifically, it is a change to the State's constitution that passed by 62%, and which asked voters to amend the constitution to recognize marriage as "between couples regardless of gender." It also raised an interesting queston in asking about religioous organizations and clergy retaining the right to solemnize a marriage...as distinct from the legal action of conducting and licensing the marriage.
For LGBTQ people in the USA living in states where the religous right is threatening to remove the right of same-sex marriage, this approach provides hope!
While out Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg was confirmed by a bipartisan vote of 86-13, who voted against the confirmation of the first gay Cabinet Secretary?
All Republicans from conservative states, the group have long histories of opposing LGBTQ rights. While none of them cited Buttigieg's orientation for their vote, the senators have spent their careers decrying anything remotely queer.
Some of the senators objected to the certification of electoral college votes mere hours after insurrectionists stormed the Capitol building in their own attempt to stop the certification.
The contrarian senators were:
Marsha Blackburn (TN)
Bill Cassidy (LA)
Tom Cotton (AR)
Ted Cruz (TX)
Bill Hagerty (TN)
Josh Hawley (MO)
James Lankford (OK)
Roger Marshall (KS)
Marco Rubio (FL)
Rick Scott (FL)
Tim Scott (SC)
Richard Shelby (AL)
Tommy Tuberville (AL)
The entire group support giving Christians a license to discriminate against LGBTQ people under the guise of "religious freedom." All oppose expanding civil rights protections to transgender people and marriage equality.
Location: USA
Registered: October 2006
Messages: 484
And the listed politicians are probably the same ones who are so deep in the closet they've found Narnia.
“There's no grays, only white that's got grubby. I'm surprised you don't know that. And sin, young man, is when you treat people as things. Including yourself. That's what sin is.” - Terry Pratchett
That said, all should note that this is not just an American phenoneon occuring within US politics. The underlying motivator is white Christian nationalism, and while we have our own special and vile version here, one doesn't need to look very hard to see nationalism erearing its ugly head in many countries. In many of those countries it's not just white nationalism, but white Christian nationalism as well!
As nationalistic despots have shown through the ages, they use groups of people as scapegoats to drive the furor of the populace. The LGBTQ community is one such group, and reversing same-sex marriage rights is right up there with overturning Roe v. Wade for these people.
Location: USA
Registered: October 2006
Messages: 484
"Bensiamin wrote on Thu, 04 February 2021 09:46"
As nationalistic despots have shown through the ages, they use groups of people as scapegoats to drive the furor of the populace.
--
This reminds me of a discussion I saw on social media the other day bemoaning the phenomenon of "Cancel Culture" where if someone is disagreed with they get banned or removed from the group or ostraciized or whatever. It got me to thinking about my experience growing up wihthin evangelical christianity. I've got to say that in my opinion cancel culture does pose some problems in the realm of human discourse, but that said, my experience with christianity is that they have/had hoaned cancel culture to a very fine edge indeed and as such have no leg to stand on when complaining about cancel culture as it impacts them individually or corporately, or the leaders they support.
I got repeatedly canceled growing up. Canceled, devalued, relegated to hell, relegated to a place of such personal horror as to be paralyzed with fear; fear of continuing to live and fear of killing myself, knowing that I'd only wake up being tortured forever in the fire of hell.
“There's no grays, only white that's got grubby. I'm surprised you don't know that. And sin, young man, is when you treat people as things. Including yourself. That's what sin is.” - Terry Pratchett
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
"Teddy wrote on Fri, 05 February 2021 19:45"
"Bensiamin wrote on Thu, 04 February 2021 09:46"
As nationalistic despots have shown through the ages, they use groups of people as scapegoats to drive the furor of the populace.
--
This reminds me of a discussion I saw on social media the other day bemoaning the phenomenon of "Cancel Culture" where if someone is disagreed with they get banned or removed from the group or ostraciized or whatever. It got me to thinking about my experience growing up wihthin evangelical christianity. I've got to say that in my opinion cancel culture does pose some problems in the realm of human discourse, but that said, my experience with christianity is that they have/had hoaned cancel culture to a very fine edge indeed and as such have no leg to stand on when complaining about cancel culture as it impacts them individually or corporately, or the leaders they support.
I got repeatedly canceled growing up. Canceled, devalued, relegated to hell, relegated to a place of such personal horror as to be paralyzed with fear; fear of continuing to live and fear of killing myself, knowing that I'd only wake up being tortured forever in the fire of hell.
--
I was so traumatised by it here that I became homophobic
I then had the wit to cancel religion from my life, though I dabbled with it a little in the late 1990s until I remembered and saw clearly what it was
Location: USA
Registered: October 2006
Messages: 484
"timmy wrote on Fri, 05 February 2021 14:41"
"Teddy wrote on Fri, 05 February 2021 19:45"
"Bensiamin wrote on Thu, 04 February 2021 09:46"
As nationalistic despots have shown through the ages, they use groups of people as scapegoats to drive the furor of the populace.
--
This reminds me of a discussion I saw on social media the other day bemoaning the phenomenon of "Cancel Culture" where if someone is disagreed with they get banned or removed from the group or ostraciized or whatever. It got me to thinking about my experience growing up wihthin evangelical christianity. I've got to say that in my opinion cancel culture does pose some problems in the realm of human discourse, but that said, my experience with christianity is that they have/had hoaned cancel culture to a very fine edge indeed and as such have no leg to stand on when complaining about cancel culture as it impacts them individually or corporately, or the leaders they support.
I got repeatedly canceled growing up. Canceled, devalued, relegated to hell, relegated to a place of such personal horror as to be paralyzed with fear; fear of continuing to live and fear of killing myself, knowing that I'd only wake up being tortured forever in the fire of hell.
--
I was so traumatised by it here that I became homophobic
I then had the wit to cancel religion from my life, though I dabbled with it a little in the late 1990s until I remembered and saw clearly what it was
--
Yeah, I canceled it from my life as well but gradually as I grew in my understanding of life and my place in it. Now I consider myself spiritual but not religious. Religion if for people who are trying to escape hell. Spirituality is for those of us who've already been there.
[Updated on: Wed, 10 February 2021 20:57]
“There's no grays, only white that's got grubby. I'm surprised you don't know that. And sin, young man, is when you treat people as things. Including yourself. That's what sin is.” - Terry Pratchett
Location: Europe
Registered: July 2019
Messages: 104
Being Gay in Morocco in 2020.
Yassine returned from Europe to Casablanca with his parents when he was six years old. In college he experienced his first flirtation with girls, but as he explains: "I was also attracted to boys but at this age, you generally learn about things of love with both. My father and mother provided me with a conservative education, but since they had followed a scientific course, they made me aware from the age of 11 on the risks of unprotected sex with girls. In their eyes, homosexuality did not even exist as an option."
"I definitely knew I was gay when I started sleeping regularly with a boy I knew. Before, I didn't really ask myself the question of my sexual orientation. In environments where co-education is very controlled, touching between boys or between girls is commonplace. We discover our body and that of the other, generally the cousin, the playmate or the neighbor of the neighborhood. It begins with touching willies games in childhood and it happens that in adolescence it evolves into a homosexual relationship, "explains Yassine.
Homoeroticism has long existed in Arab literature and poetry, as shown by the famous pamphlets of Abu Nuwâs under the Abbasid caliphate at the end of the 8th century. Homosexuals and transvestites were also relatively tolerated in Moroccan society before the spread, in the aftermath of the Iranian revolution of 1979, of Islamist ideology. This was disseminated by the Muslim Brotherhood movement and then by the Salafist nebula within universities, before conquering the popular layers and part of the middle class. This return to religiosity was unsurprisingly to the detriment of women, laity and sexual minorities.
In the streets, especially working class neighbourhoods you need to blend in and not stick out. Something Yassine hates, but which is not without consequences: - Yassine, who then pays the price for his refusal to submit to the dictates of a homophobic street: "They insulted me, they spat on me or they threw stones at me. I am small in stature and rather puny. Once, a bunch of young thugs, there must have been eight, pulled me violently by my T-shirt then pulled me into a dead end where they all started to fiddle with me. I managed to escape them to take refuge in a supermarket."
"In this phallocratic society, with women, we are the outlet for machos and their frustrations. The resentment of homophobes is even stronger towards effeminate gays, perceived as sexually passive. They say they do not understand how the latter accept to lower themselves to the position of women when God has given them the chance to be born men. This is what virility comes down to in their eyes, to gain the upper hand, to have control even in bed."
The only openly "gay friendly" nightclub in the metropolis (Casablanca) of 6 million souls closed its doors a few years ago. Ensuring discretion and anonymity, dating applications have dethroned classic "flirting" places such as bars and cafes. It is very rare that a registrant on Grindr, Hornet or Planet Romeo displays his true identity. The subscribers exchange a few words and photos in private before making an appointment.
From time to time, the local press indeed reports assaults or even villainous murders of homosexuals by small-time bandits. Some are attracted by the greed, others by convenience, according to our young interlocutor: "On applications intended for sexual minorities, we also meet heterosexual men who seek ease. In fact, to share a moment of intimacy with a girl, when you are not living alone, you have to rent an apartment or take two rooms in a hotel, since there is a demand for a marriage contract for couples of the opposite sex. . It is stressful, risky and costly. With a boy, these problems do not arise, we can even receive him at his family. "
Indeed, if article 489 of the Moroccan Penal Code punishes from 6 months to 3 years imprisonment "licentious or unnatural acts with an individual of the same sex", article 490 of the same text of the law stipulates that the relations sexual intercourse outside marriage is punished by one month to one year of imprisonment.
"There is nothing to build here as a homosexual, everything you experience is ephemeral. We see his exes posting photos of their wedding or their first child on Facebook or Instagram. Many do not assume to be gay. They even display an outrageous homophobia while continuing to live an underground homosexuality , "laments Yassine.
Then Yassine concludes with resignation: "But the change will perhaps happen when I turn 70... I have no future here. Either I stay in Morocco and I fight for a few crumbs of rights, or I decide to leave it for a country where I can live freely, in accordance with who I am. The second option is the one I chose. "
Extracts from: Homosexual in Morocco 2020: The triple punishmentIn the kingdom, homosexuality is hated by the man of faith, vilified by the man in the street, punished by the lawyer, and most gays hide their sexual orientationBy TILILA MOUSSAOUI - 18 June 2020The Times of Israĕl.
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