( ) 1 Vote
|
|
|
timmy
|
 |
Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
|
|
|
pretty please can we make him prove he's a christian? Mark 16 17:18
I believe Drano is the cocktail of choice for proving christianity
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
"Bensiamin wrote on Mon, 27 April 2020 13:08"Here's an interesting image of "militant" Russian Christianity, provided by Geron Kees!
--
We need one of those pics with a cute little white country church with steeple on it...
Geron...???
“There's no grays, only white that's got grubby. I'm surprised you don't know that. And sin, young man, is when you treat people as things. Including yourself. That's what sin is.” - Terry Pratchett
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
ivor slipper
|
 |
Likes it here |
Registered: September 2013
Messages: 129
|
|
|
"Bensiamin wrote on Mon, 27 April 2020 20:08"
Here's an interesting image of "militant" Russian Christianity, provided by Geron Kees!
--
Rather Unorthodox I'd say...
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
imagine a 13-year-old boy, living in a small town in Southern Siberia, who has never heard of 'actual' gay people, who is totally naive and finds himself in the situation where he feels sexually frustrated and attracted to this singer Díma Bilán (Uh, a pop-star! You could've done it better, Nikita!) who was very popular back in the early 2000s in Russia. Confused? Maybe. Scared to death? That'd be about right.
That's how I remember the first time I ever knew I was different. And it took me quite some time to figure out what it was and how to deal with it.
You can get a get a good idea of life in other countries by reading personal accounts: check out https://www.stonewall.org.uk/cy/node/32140
In 2012 when Putin was getting elected for the third time a gay rights organisation existed in Russia, Deti 404. It was closed down because Putin passed a law which made it illegal to tell kids that gays exist. So read Nikita's story about coming out and don't ever believe you are safe where you are, especially if you live in America!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Geron Kees
|
|
Likes it here |
Location: USA
Registered: February 2016
Messages: 154
|
|
|
The tank church is the work of Russian-born sculptor Kris Kuksi, now based in, I think, Kansas. He has done a number of these works, all fascinating, but as he is Russian-born he seems to feel that the somewhat stark lines of Orthodox church architecture are the most synchronized with the quietly lethal architecture of the modern tank. He has no little country churches on treads as of this time, and short of Photoshopping one, I don't have one on hand.
Kuksi has done other work that perhaps comments well on our current times.
Darth Vader would feel quite at home.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I recently became acquainted with the writings of Jame Finn on Medium. He's self described as "Writer, Runner, Marine, Ariman, Former LGBTQ and HIB activist, Former ActUpNY and Queer Nation, Polyglot, Middle-aged, uppity faggot" which is quite a list of activities!
The point of the post is that he recently published an amazingly eloquent and well written piece titled "Sometime Church is Child Abuse" that I suggest everyone who is serious about the religious assault on LGBTQ rights, as well as the overall role of religion on LGBTQ youth...to say nothing of suicide and other consequences, should read.
Link to Medium
[Updated on: Sun, 03 May 2020 16:42]
Bensiamin
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
timmy
|
|
Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
|
|
|
"Bensiamin wrote on Sun, 03 May 2020 17:41"I recently became acquainted with the writings of Jame Finn on Medium. He's self described as "Writer, Runner, Marine, Ariman, Former LGBTQ and HIB activist, Former ActUpNY and Queer Nation, Polyglot, Middle-aged, uppity faggot" which is quite a list of activities!
The point of the post is that he recently published an amazingly eloquent and well written piece titled "Sometime Church is Child Abuse" that I suggest everyone who is serious about the religious assault on LGBTQ rights, as well as the overall role of religion on LGBTQ youth...to say nothing of suicide and other consequences, should read.
Link to Medium
--
It gives no advice that I could see for dealing with his aunt, who might not even know he has a problem. It puts the burden on the kid's father. It's well written, eloquent, and misses the kid's needs, assuming the kid not to be a hypothetical kid.
[Updated on: Sun, 03 May 2020 22:19]
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
In my view it doesn't matter if the piece is written as an essay, an opinion piece or a "Dear Abby" letter about a hypothetical kid.
First, and foremost, as to needs, Finn makes the point that is obvious to anyone who is LGBTQ, but is a completely foreign concept to the rest, namely that "LGBTQ kids live in world where gay means bad and where casual, cutting jokes are background noise." As he points, out, they internalize a LOT of that. Non-LGBTQ people are clueless about this background noise and the impacts it can have.
That's just in society and education in general. Move that dynamic into the church setting where doctrine and theology are added to the mix and it becomes quite toxic. Thus, the comment that "in Sunday School and during the main service, those same nice people teach you how broken you are. They use nasty words sometimes, even while they're smiling."
The article doesn't address the aunt because she is the problem and doesn't' know it!
The burden does go to the kid's father, as the legal guardian, responsible party and decision maker. The advice is right there: the Dad needs to stop enabling the abuse and protect his son from it. If the Dad can read this (especially the reference to the study that found that the more LGBTQ people go to church, the more mentally unhealthy they are) and not stop the visits to the aunt and going to church, then its time to call protective services!
Most religious people with strong opinions go on the defensive immediately. Talking to them is about as productive as arguing with believers in conspiracy theories. The tone and style of this piece points out some very significant problems and needs in non-accusatory language, and in a format many of those people might be willing to read.
Bensiamin
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
"Bensiamin wrote on Mon, 04 May 2020 08:04"First, and foremost, as to needs, Finn makes the point that is obvious to anyone who is LGBTQ, but is a completely foreign concept to the rest, namely that "LGBTQ kids live in world where gay means bad and where casual, cutting jokes are background noise." As he points, out, they internalize a LOT of that. Non-LGBTQ people are clueless about this background noise and the impacts it can have.
--
A perfect description of "straight privilege"
“There's no grays, only white that's got grubby. I'm surprised you don't know that. And sin, young man, is when you treat people as things. Including yourself. That's what sin is.” - Terry Pratchett
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Late breaking news on the religious front.
The policy body of the Presbyterian Church in America (i.e. PCA, to be distinguished from Presbyterian Church-USA) is the General Assembly, which is not meeting this year due to the pandemic. However, last year it created a committee to study and report on Human Sexuality (specifically homosexuality and transgenderism), and that committee has just released their report. PCA is a much newer and move conservative Presbyterian denomination, who among other things, don't believe in allowing women to hold leadership positions!
A summary that all should read is titled Presbyterians to LGBTs: go to hell on Medium by Jonathan (who regularly writes on theology and LGBTQ subjects), and which contains a link to the actual report.
The news? Presbyterians have been studying "the homosexual issue" since the mid-70's, and while they give the outward and public appearance of being tolerant and accepting to LGBTQ persons into membership (see Denominational table for PC-USA by clicking here), deep down not only haven't things changed, but in many ways have gotten worse.
With this study, PCA is not just saying "Go to hell," they appear to be doubling down in terms of doctrine and theology too. At the outset they state "We affirm that marriage is to be between one man and one woman." Then for good measure, they add that marriage is for the purpose of husband and wife to procreate, and "All other forms of sexual intimacy, including all forms of lust and same-sex sexual activity of any kind, are sinful."
After a slap at trans people by saying "God opposes the confusion of man as woman and woman as man," they go on to lay bare the basis of their position: "We affirm that from the sin of our first parents we have received an inherited guilt and an inherited depravity." This is Calvin's doctrine of Total Depravity (i.e. comprehensive corruption), which was fully embraced by John Knox, the founder of Presbyterianism in the 16th Century, and by extension means that homosexuality is a depraved sin.
Then, to add insult to injury, they go so far as to recommend "that those in our churches would be wise to avoid the term 'gay Christian,'..."because for many in our culture, to self-identify as 'gay' suggests that one is engaged in homosexual practice. At the very least, the term normally communicates the presence and approval of same-sex sexual attraction as morally neutrally or morally praiseworthy. Even if 'gay,' for some Christians, simply means 'same-sex attraction,' it is still inappropriate to juxtapose this sinful desire, or any other sinful desire, as an identity marker alongside our identity as new creations in Christ."
Wow! You can't be gay and Christian any more!
By labeling homosexuality as a "choice," they clearly infer that it can be "cured," and that in turn opens the door to reparative therapy!
So, according to this report, what's left for "the gays?" Friendship, living a celibate life and overcoming their homosexual desires rather than accepting and being comfortable with it. In other words, this report urges the PCA to ignore fifty years of psychiatric, psychological and biological research that has shown sexual orientation is biological, and to reaffirm their position based on a theological doctrine that was defined at the end of the Dark Ages!
How's that for progress!
[Updated on: Mon, 01 June 2020 19:06]
Bensiamin
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
"Bensiamin wrote on Sun, 31 May 2020 09:46"How's that for progress!
--
Why am I not surprised. I don't know if you've noticed, but ever since the Obergefell vs. Hodges decision that legalized same sex marriage here in the US there has been an amost across the board, steady, and continuous roll back/push back of human decency in regards to LGBT+ rights and acceptance. The only real progress being made in the last 5 years since that decision has been in the area of various states and local jurisdictions passing laws prohibiting reparative therapy on minors.
“There's no grays, only white that's got grubby. I'm surprised you don't know that. And sin, young man, is when you treat people as things. Including yourself. That's what sin is.” - Terry Pratchett
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Teddy: you are absolutely correct in your observation, and that is the purpose of this Forum thread. What underlies the "continuous roll back/push back" on same-sex marriage rights is conservative Christianity, who have made it part of their culture war. And, what supports that effort is doctrine and theology. The Presbyterian news is a reset on the part of that supposedly moderate denomination.
The other bad news in their study, though, is that beyond ignoring science, they clearly focus on getting over or getting past "being homosexual," which while not overlty promoting reparative therary, can easily be used to support it. Even though state laws are being passed in the US, they're not necessarily working, as James Finn points out in his piece We Must Ban LBGTQ Conversion Therapy For Real, that you can link to on Medium by clicking here.
Bensiamin
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
THE ASSAULT CONTINUES
This week NBC News reported on an LGBTQ news item that pretty well got lost in the coverage of the Black Lives Matter protests, police violence and the pandemic: namely that the Trump administration (in the form of the Dept. of Justice) argued that adoption agencies should be able to reject gay couples.
Specifically, the Trump administration submitted a brief to the Supreme Court on Wednesday arguing that a taxpayer-funded organization should be able to refuse to work with same-sex couples and others whom the group considers to be in violation of its religious beliefs.
To read the article click here.
While this is of a part with the court rulings that a baker should be able to deny services (baking a wedding cake) for a gay couple if it goes against the baker's religious beliefs, it is also part of a larger conservative agenda, and that is the continued effort to remove rights and protections from LGBTQ people.
Anne Applebaum, in an astonishingly insightful article on "collaborators" describes how Attorney General Bill Barr and Secretary of State Mike Pompeo have collaborated with Trump to advance their religious beliefs. Both Pence and Pompeo she argues, "have convinced themselves that they are in a biblical moment... All of the things they care about--outlawing abortion and same-sex marriage, and (though this is never said out loud) maintaining a white majority in America--are under threat. Time is growing short. They believe that we are approaching the Rapture, and this is a moment of deep religious significance."
Of note, there it is: the Trump Administration is actively working to win the culture wars. It's not just a grass roots effort being carried out by conservative churches and PACs and lobbying groups. The efforts to rescind same-sex marriage laws is not limited to a few red neck and backward southern states. It is the agenda of the Administration, abetted by the conservative religious wing, whether Catholic (Barr) or Evangelical (Pence and Pompeo).
Applebaum summarizes the underlying motivation: "most white conservative Christians don't want piety from this president; they want power. In Trump, they see a champion who will restore them to their rightful place at the center of American life, while using his terrible swift sword to punish their enemies."
To read Anne Applebaum's article in The Atlantic, click here.
It's time to get involved, become active, register people to vote, turn out the vote...whatever it takes to remove Trump and this administration from office in the November election.
Bensiamin
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
If you refer to the Declaration of the Rights of Man and of the Citizen 1789 the basis of the American constitution, then the American citizens have a right to demand an account of his actions from their President.
Article XV The society has the right of requesting an account from any public agent of its administration.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Talo: technically true, but all the branches of government are now headed up by Trump stooges, and he's managed to turn the Republicans in Congress into a cowering mass of ass lickers (with an exception or two), and has thus managed to advance an "immunity from prosecution while in office" narrative that protects him till he's out. At that point he could be brought up on charges. He knows it, and it's one of the reasons he'll fight like the devil to stay and may have to be forced to depart.
Not to be forgotten is that the majority of Republicans still support him (especially those without college educations), and very few of them can see beyond their own personal grievances. Many of those are real, but none seem to be able to see that this huckster is using them for his benefit not theirs, and keeps them hooked by appealing to their anger and sense of privelege. Mckay Coppins wrote an insightful piece last week in The Atlantic titled "The Christians Who Loved Trump's Stunt," in whcih he says:
"Andrew Whitehead, a sociologist at Clemson University, has argued that Trump's religious base can best be understood through the lens of Christian nationalism. Christian nationalism is often not really about theology (and thus can't be ascribed to all conservative churchgoers): "It's about identity, enforcing hierarchy, and order...To Trump, the Bible and the church are not symbols of faith; they are weapons of culture war. And to many of his Christian supporters watching at home, the pandering wasn't an act of inauthenticity; it was a sign of allegiance--and shared dominance."
The link to the article is here
The sad reality is that little is likely to happen. What happened to Bush for starting a fake war with all the loss of life and treasure? The societal tide certainly seems to be turning in the past two weeks, so with luck we'll get him out of office and take most of his Congressioinal enablers along too!
Bensiamin
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
"Bensiamin wrote on Tue, 09 June 2020 08:15"...but all the branches of government are now headed up by Trump stooges, and he's managed to turn the Republicans in Congress into a cowering mass of ass lickers (with an exception or two), and has thus managed to advance an "immunity from prosecution while in office" narrative that protects him till he's out.
--
It is purely speculation on my part, but my suspicion is that, like the unholy blackmail aliance of the sixties between LBJ and J Edgar Hoover, Trump has an ally within the intelligence community or even paid for intelligence from within the trump organization, that allows him to hold an unnatural power over most of the Republican politicians of consequence. Perhaps I am naive but I seen no other exlanation why there are not a few more GOP politicians on the order of Mitt Romney or John McCain who are willing to stand up to the reprobate.
“There's no grays, only white that's got grubby. I'm surprised you don't know that. And sin, young man, is when you treat people as things. Including yourself. That's what sin is.” - Terry Pratchett
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
It used to be that "a picture is worth a thousand words," but now it seems the truer statement is that a video can replace a whole book!
So, here's one my friend Michael in Australian sent me (before I found it!), that speaks to both the Evangelical assualt on LGBTQ rights, the religious hypocrisy and a host of other related matters.
You can watch the YouTube video here.
Bensiamin
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Breaking news, and it's more important than the Republican National Convention moving to Jacksonville!
The Republican National Committee (RNC) has decided to re-use the party's anti-LGBTQ political platform from 2016 because the coronavirus epidemic prevents the RNC from assembling the thousands of national delegates required to draft a new one. As such, the Republican platform will continue to oppose same-sex marriage and the expansion of civil rights for sexual orientation and gender identity while supporting President Donald Trump's transgender military ban, conversion therapy and businesses discriminating against same-sex couples.
Gays and lesbians have had the right to marry for five years. An overwhelming majority of Americans support LGBTQ rights, yet, in order to drive his Evangelical Christian base into a fervor of support, here we go again!
Read the whole article on LGBTQ Nation by clicking here.
Bensiamin
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
And more breaking news, and this one is a huge deal: In landmark case, Supreme Court rules civil rights law protects LGBTQ+ workers
The Supreme Court rules 1964 civil rights law bars employers from discriminating against workers based on sexual orientation or transgender status.
The importance should be obvious during an administration that is trying to undermine LGBTQ rights, and in the face of states trying to advance trans discrimination and remove same-sex marriage rights.
It's also huge because not only did Cheif Justice John Roberts decide in the affirmative, so did Justice Neil Gorsuch (a Trump appointee), and only two of the conservative judges voted against. If you're Trump, that's got to really sting!
You can read the article in The Guardian by clicking here.
Bensiamin
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
timmy
|
|
Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
|
|
|
It seems that Gorsuch is playing well with other children. That was unexpected and the better for it
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
"timmy wrote on Mon, 15 June 2020 15:16"It seems that Gorsuch is playing well with other children. That was unexpected and the better for it
--
The crazy part of this is that Gorsuch is the main reason christians use as justification for their henious act of voting the orange reprobate into office. He and the other guy were their bet on turning the court conservative. Now what are they going to do? How are they going to justify themselves now?
“There's no grays, only white that's got grubby. I'm surprised you don't know that. And sin, young man, is when you treat people as things. Including yourself. That's what sin is.” - Terry Pratchett
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Often it is the losers rueful comments after a loss that give away their real motivations. A NY Times article today has quite a collection:
"No question it is going to make it harder to defend our religious freedom, as far as an organization being able to hire people of like mind," said Franklin Graham, who leads Samaritan's Purse, a large evangelical relief group. "I find this to be a very sad day," he said. "I don't know how this is going to protect us." AS IN, THEY'RE THE ONES THAT NEED TO BE PROTECTED!
The ruling would have "seismic implications" for religious freedom and would potentially set off years of lawsuits for religious organizations, said Russell Moore, the president of the public policy arm of the Southern Baptist Convention. "There's a common assumption in secular America that as the culture changes that evangelicals and Roman Catholicism and other forms of religion will morph and change along with it," he said. "I don't think that is true...Most evangelicals and Catholics and others who hold to a traditional Christian ethic are countercultural."
"I am deeply concerned that the U.S. Supreme Court has effectively redefined the legal meaning of 'sex' in our nation's civil rights law," the president of the Catholic bishops' conference, Archbishop José H. Gomez, said in a statement. "This is an injustice that will have implications in many areas of life...Protecting our neighbors from unjust discrimination does not require redefining human nature," NOTHING ABOUT JUSTICE FOR LGBTQ PEOPLE, ONLY ABOUT AN INJUSTICE ON THE CHURCH AND THE ARGUMENT ABOUT HUMAN NATURE!
Lest anone forget, the human nature argument is that what's normal is hetero only, and all homo relationships are intrinsic moral faults and depraved sins!
Read the article by clicking here
Bensiamin
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
timmy
|
|
Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
|
|
|
Does 'Supreme' mean that there is nowhere for the religionazis to appeal?
Forgive my lack of knowledge, but I'm used to US superlatives, like "The Best Little Whorehouse in Texas" which may or may not have been
[Updated on: Tue, 16 June 2020 16:50]
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Bisexual_Guy
|
|
Likes it here |
Location: USA Midwest
Registered: September 2015
Messages: 159
|
|
|
The United States Supreme Court is the highest court in the United States. There is not another court to which an appeal may be made.
Court opinions can, however be suverted in three ways that i know of:
First, the United States Congress can re-write laws which SOMETIMES may get around what the Supreme Court intended.
Second: A constitutional amendment can be proposed which would override the Court's decision. However, this is usually a long and difficult process/
Third, the Executive Branch of government, headed by the President, can refuse to carry out the Court's meaning and ruling. While this is not common, it has happened at least twice in history of which I am aware. As President Andrew Jackson once famously said, "The Supreme Court has made its decision. Let them enforce it."
However, since that time, the executive branch has, more often than not, at least grudgingly carried out the court's rulings.
However, this board is not the right place to write books upon books discussing this in miniscule and arcane detail.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
"Bisexual_Guy wrote on Tue, 16 June 2020 22:40"The United States Supreme Court is the highest court in the United States. There is not another court to which an appeal may be made.
Court opinions can, however be suverted in three ways that i know of:
First, the United States Congress can re-write laws which SOMETIMES may get around what the Supreme Court intended.
Second: A constitutional amendment can be proposed which would override the Court's decision. However, this is usually a long and difficult process/
Third, the Executive Branch of government, headed by the President, can refuse to carry out the Court's meaning and ruling. While this is not common, it has happened at least twice in history of which I am aware. As President Andrew Jackson once famously said, "The Supreme Court has made its decision. Let them enforce it."
However, since that time, the executive branch has, more often than not, at least grudgingly carried out the court's rulings.
However, this board is not the right place to write books upon books discussing this in miniscule and arcane detail.
--
That is one of the best and most concise explanations I've seen on the topic. Thanks.
“There's no grays, only white that's got grubby. I'm surprised you don't know that. And sin, young man, is when you treat people as things. Including yourself. That's what sin is.” - Terry Pratchett
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
The Supreme Court decision was very important, but don't celebrate too soon!
"The Trump administration Friday moved forward with a rule that rolls back health care protections for transgender people, even as the Supreme Court barred sex discrimination against LGBT individuals on the job. The rule from the Department of Health and Human Services was published in the Federal Register, the official record of the executive branch, with an effective date of Aug. 18. That will set off a barrage of lawsuits from gay rights and women's groups. It also signals to religious and social conservatives in President Donald Trump's political base that the administration remains committed to their causes as the president pursues his reelection."
Read the article by clicking here
Bensiamin
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Should you decide in the near future when life hopefully gets more back to normal, that you would like to visit Europe, it's a big place, bigger than just the 27 member countries of the European Union. One of those EU countries is Poland, a beautiful country which escaped Russian control with the demise of communism. If you think you might like to visit that country - THINK AGAIN.
100 municipalities in that country have declared themselves LGBT FREE ZONES Yes you read that correctly, a large part of the predominantly Catholic, conservative country is homophobic. No, actually worse than homophobic, they do not want any homosexuals living in their country. I could lose my cool and rant, but I know Polish people and they are not all of the same mind set. Certainly not my gay best friend!
Take a look at the LGBT FREE ZONES (highlighted in pink) and don't go there, maybe, dont go to the country at all.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
"Talo Segura wrote on Tue, 23 June 2020 10:16"100 municipalities in that country have declared themselves LGBT FREE ZONES Yes you read that correctly, a large part of the predominantly Catholic, conservative country is homophobic. No, actually worse than homophobic, they do not want any homosexuals living in their country. I could lose my cool and rant, but I know Polish people and they are not all of the same mind set. Certainly not my gay best friend!
--
It stands to reason, being they are not that long out from under absolute authoritarian rule on the part of their government. And in the vacuum left by the departure of that government another religious authoritarianism steps in to fill the void and rule the hearts and minds of those who are politically minded. But so sad and appalling.
“There's no grays, only white that's got grubby. I'm surprised you don't know that. And sin, young man, is when you treat people as things. Including yourself. That's what sin is.” - Terry Pratchett
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
"Teddy wrote on Tue, 23 June 2020 21:10"
"Talo Segura wrote on Tue, 23 June 2020 10:16"100 municipalities in that country have declared themselves LGBT FREE ZONES Yes you read that correctly, a large part of the predominantly Catholic, conservative country is homophobic. No, actually worse than homophobic, they do not want any homosexuals living in their country. I could lose my cool and rant, but I know Polish people and they are not all of the same mind set. Certainly not my gay best friend!
--
It stands to reason, being they are not that long out from under absolute authoritarian rule on the part of their government. And in the vacuum left by the departure of that government another religious authoritarianism steps in to fill the void and rule the hearts and minds of those who are politically minded. But so sad and appalling.
--
Teddy - notwithstanding Soviet authoritarianism and changes in government, the thing not to be forgotten about Poland is that it has always been one of the "most Catholic" countries in Europe. I have to believe the LGBTQ exclusion zones have the same root cause in Catholic Poland as the Evangelical move to undo same-sex marriage in the US.
Religion at work...at it's best!
Bensiamin
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
"Bensiamin wrote on Tue, 23 June 2020 20:11"
Quote:Teddy - notwithstanding Soviet authoritarianism and changes in government, the thing not to be forgotten about Poland is that it has always been one of the "most Catholic" countries in Europe. I have to believe the LGBTQ exclusion zones have the same root cause in Catholic Poland as the Evangelical move to undo same-sex marriage in the US.
Religion at work...at it's best!
--
I agree. It was not my intent to imply that Soviet authoritarianism was a main cause or thee manin cause, but rather that without that, what.. 40 years? of authoritarian rule the likely hood of at least a somewhat more tolerant atmosphere in Poland than we currently have is almost guaranteed, Catholicism notwithstanding. But it did happen and we have what we have.
And the same root cause? Yes, I believe you are correct. I have what I imagine is a fairly pesimistic viewpoint on how things will go here in the US, and quite possibly around the world when it comes to our rainbow rights. If we step back and look at the political atmosphere worldwide right now, and not just here in the US, it appears to me as if we are in the beginning stages of a hard swing to the right into authoritarinism and fascism. I hope I'm wrong but the movement is gaining ground seemingly rapidly around the globe. Or maybe I've been reading too much of Rigby Taylor? 
“There's no grays, only white that's got grubby. I'm surprised you don't know that. And sin, young man, is when you treat people as things. Including yourself. That's what sin is.” - Terry Pratchett
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
A little additional info to support Talo's earlier post with map about Gay Unfriendly places in Europe.
First, The most gay-friendly countries:
Then, they most gay-unfriendly countries:
[Updated on: Tue, 30 June 2020 00:23]
Bensiamin
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
The Composer
|
 |
Toe is in the water |
Registered: September 2018
Messages: 87
|
|
|
You surprise me with Malta: it was, for very long time, a very conservative Catholic community.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Indeed! Equally surprising to me was that Monaco (usually thought of as hip and progressive) was so low on the Worst Countries list. Who'd have thought? Between Belarus and Russia?
Bensiamin
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
"The Composer wrote on Tue, 30 June 2020 03:30"You surprise me with Malta: it was, for very long time, a very conservative Catholic community.
--
So, if this is the case (I'll rely on your knowledge of the religious history there because for whatever reason I know little about it), Why such a contrast between Malta and Poland, Poland being very anti-gay and Malta being a polar opposite?
“There's no grays, only white that's got grubby. I'm surprised you don't know that. And sin, young man, is when you treat people as things. Including yourself. That's what sin is.” - Terry Pratchett
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
 There have been some big changes in Malta with the left government which came to power, giving sweeping rights of equality to the LGBTQ+ community. However, Malta is a tiny island with half a million population (and no fresh water, it tastes a little salty!). Seriously, you should read this blog about growing up gay in Malta to get the real picture. It is good, but the changes are very recent and pretty dramatic, but with a lingering past. https://nomadicboys.com/gay-life-in-malta/
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
The Composer
|
|
Toe is in the water |
Registered: September 2018
Messages: 87
|
|
|
Poland is still one of the most Catholic countries in Europe. During communist days, the church got an enormous boost by having the first the first Polish pope ever (up until then, they had all been Italian).
Over the last 14 years, I have visited Poland quite often. I wander through the city centres and often go into the churches. Quite often, in the middle of the day, there will be church services going on which are well attended.
It is still a very conservative country. Abortion is illegal. There was an attempt a few years ago to bring a ship into one of the Polish ports (Wladyslawowo) which would perform abortions on board. This met with a great deal of local opposition.
The current government is extremely conservative, and the EU have raised considerable doubts as to the freedom of expression and oversight of the judiciary in the country.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I just heard part of the speech given in Congress by John Lewis, who died last Friday, before the House of Representatives voted on legalizing same-sex marriage, in which he said "Marriage is a fundamental human right."
It was quite a striking contrast to the very unsettling piece by Jim Finn that I read yesterday about Secretary of State Pompeo's most recent efforts to declare war on human rights with the end game of eliminating same-sex marriage along with abortion.
A few gems from the Finn piece in case you missed this in the news:
· Last summer, Secretary of State Mike Pompeo formed the advisory Commission on Unalienable Rights to re-examine human rights and to issue guidance to the Secretary and other policymakers in considering, "a moral foreign policy."
· The international human rights community sat up in alarm. Esteemed rights leaders noted Pompeo had packed the committee with religious zealots, anti-LGBTQ activists, and contemporary proponents of so-called "Natural Law," a dusty Enlightenment philosophy Roman Catholics and evangelical Christians have brushed off in recent decades to campaign against reproductive freedom and for the destruction of the civil equality of members of gender and sexual minorities.
· The draft report is in and while ignoring international human rights law "The commissioners instead identify what they see as a critical problem: a proliferation of "new rights" that often compete with one another. They claim "new rights" have eroded international consensus around human rights. Their solution seems to be boosting religion and private property rights while diminishing others, like eliminating women's rights and LGBTQ equality."
· Pompeo and other conservative Christians count on Trump delivering policies that elevate conservative religious values to center stage in the US and the world -- no matter how much those values diminish and harm marginalized minorities.
This is serious business, folks, and everyone concerned about human rights in general and LGBTQ rights in particular should read the article and become knowledgeable about Pompeo's gambit.
Finn's article ends with this comment: Those of us who value equality for all must do everything we can to ensure Trump doesn't win November's election. Dystopia approaches, and only engaged voters can stop it.
Those in the UK should not dismiss this out of hand: remember the conservative link between Bush and Blair that got the UK involved in that "righteous" war in Iraq.
Read Jim Finn's article on Medium
Bensiamin
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
This article in LGBTQ Nation offers some real hope about conversion therapy, at least across the Atlantic. Sadly, here most of the dialogue about LGBTQ rights, same-sex marriage and conversion therapy is dominated by the conservative Christian churches, especially the Evangelicals, and they aren't giving up easily...even as some of their leaders conducting conversion therapy are shown to be frauds.
As recently as yesterday Christian conservative activist and pundit Jenna Ellis (who was hired by Donald Trump earlier this year as a lawyer and a legal advisor to his 2020 reelection campaign and has long opposed LGBTQ rights) tweeted support for conversion therapy!
Things are different in Europe, though not as rosy as the story might lead one to believe, as Talo sends this perspective along:
I don't think European countries have a great record on addressing this issue. In March 2018 the European parliament passed a resolution condemning the practice and urging member states to ban it. To date only three countries have passed laws banning conversion therapy. The first was Malta, followed by Germany and most recently Albania.
The focus of the ban has been to protect minors who might often be pressured into undergoing treatment. Treatments which consist of giving these young people, mostly we are talking about teenage boys, electric shocks whilst showing them pornographic gay images. Treatment might also involve testosterone injections.
Available data from other European countries indicates that people who have undergone therapy are 8.4 times more likely to commit suicide, and 5.9 times more likely to suffer high levels of depression. [Source: France 24 (International Television News channel).]
Read the article in LGBTQ Nation here
[Updated on: Wed, 22 July 2020 21:52]
Bensiamin
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
"Bensiamin wrote on Wed, 22 July 2020 14:51"Available data from other European countries indicates that people who have undergone therapy are 8.4 times more likely to commit suicide, and 5.9 times more likely to suffer high levels of depression.
--
God, that's depressing! I was never subjected to conversion therapy but sometimes as a young adult felt like I just as well have been, having been brought up in a morphodite, evangelical sect that shamed you and taught you to get on your knees and pray for forgiveness for even having thoughts and natural reactions to visual stimulus. Looming hell fire, and all that.
“There's no grays, only white that's got grubby. I'm surprised you don't know that. And sin, young man, is when you treat people as things. Including yourself. That's what sin is.” - Terry Pratchett
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Teddy;
Here's another equally depressing fact: over 40% of homeless youth are LGBTQ. You know, most of them from the type of conservatives Christian homes you described.
I get asked occasionally why I post this stuff, much of it not being upbeat and hopeful. The answer is that those of us here read, and some write, gay fiction. Fiction. That's imaginary events and people. Meaning it's easy to think things are OK out there, or getting better, based on a lot of fiction. The reality, especially in the US, is something different. I say that as a former Evangelical Christian myself. We're talking about the pious people who expect all of us to burn in hell, and they're currently setting the agenda.
As John Curran (not Jefferson) said a long time ago: The price of liberty is eternal vigilance!
Bensiamin
|
|
|
|
|
Goto Forum:
|
] 
A Place of Safety
Search
Help
Register
Login
Home
