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Michael Simon
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Toe is in the water |
Registered: January 1970
Messages: 92
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I know I did not post here for a long time, but still, today I open my newspaper and read about a dutch politician who was shot, cause he was a very right winged guy. What struck me odd about the whole business, apart from the killing is that guys attitude. For me there was a huge contradiction....or is it none???
This guy was openly gay and spreaded hate against ppl that were different...forgeiners? Muslims to be exact. He ranted on and on about them and others, mailny cuase of skin colour.
Can anyone tell me why and how ppl, who are destined to be in the middle of hate can spread even more? I thought that being gay, being a target for many ppl should make us the ones who are open for others who are different. Or am I wrong here?
Another issue which struck me ood in todays newspaper was a report, a statistical reseach found out that the number of 12 - 17 year olds who are negatively touched by anything gay rose by 30% since the mid 1980's. What is happening around us? When you see light at the end of teh tunnel it must just be the lights of teh train coming towards you to hit you, huh?
Sorry I am just in a conflict of beliefs lately.
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mihangel
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Likes it here |
Location: UK
Registered: July 2002
Messages: 192
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It sounds paradoxical, but I think it's because the Netherlands is so tolerant of gays. Fortuyn was not hated for being gay. There's a profile of him in today's Guardian, which among other things says, 'First as a writer, then as a politician, he argued that Muslim culture, in particular, could not co-exist with Dutch permissiveness. "In Holland, homosexuality is treated the same way as heterosexuality. In what Islamic country does that happen?" he asked in a recent interview.' (For full article see http://www.guardian.co.uk/farright/story/0,11981,711331,00.html)
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trevor
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Really getting into it |
Registered: November 2002
Messages: 732
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So, hopefully, he doesn't hate Muslim PEOPLE but rather the intolerance of the CULTURE? Still, it seems a fine line sometimes, to express one's opinion without offending the members of the group.
I have seen what you mention, though, Michael. I worked both for and with an open lesbian who appeared to really dislike a friend and colleage's wife because she had that "goth" thing going on - all black, nosering, etc. It was really sad because my friends wife was offended to the point of no longer attending company functions. A really great lady, actually, once you get to know her, and very gay-friendly too. So, I do know a bigotted lesbian.
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Michael Simon
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Toe is in the water |
Registered: January 1970
Messages: 92
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but still, I dun get that all. Maybe it is wrong seeing teh good in ppl? Or is that cynical? For myself it was all a contradiction in itself you know.
I never came out in my life as some of you know, but still, being through the hints of others, this fear, how can you make others go through the same??? That si what I dun get
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trevor
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Really getting into it |
Registered: November 2002
Messages: 732
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I think our ultimate survival, both individually and as a race, DEPENDS on seeing the good in people and it's cynical to not see it. If we look at people as individuals rather than members of some label (right-wing, gay, Muslim-hater) it's a bit easier, but we are lazy and it's easier to just label people as groups - part of how we think.
Hate and biogotry are just that, no matter how we rationalize them. As a "religious Christian" I am part of a group (damn, just labelled myself again) that is sometimes hated for its hatefulness, although personally I think it's God's job alone to judge us, hopefully on how we treat each other.
Hmm, I don't know if I clarified anything or just introduced another contradiction, but I think you "get it" pretty well.
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Michael Simon
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Toe is in the water |
Registered: January 1970
Messages: 92
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sure, as always we seem to agree ;o)
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Michael Simon
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Toe is in the water |
Registered: January 1970
Messages: 92
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for your first topic, I am not Dutch, just German, so I dun hav eteh full insight into al what happened, but from what I read in teh press in various countries, he was a conservative politician, with extreme fear of the Islam, there have been many photographs of him, touching ppl with a different skin colous in a degrading manner. That was the contradiction for me, you know, when I was in school, gays have always been looked at as something less worth than others. Then I can never understand how gays can do that to others. And as for closing teh borders, as far as I am informed he wanted to cancel the Schengen treaty, which woudl mean that the free travel, which is essential for a free and open Europe would be no longer possible with Holland.
for teh other thing, it was a survey made among an array of kids, aged 12 to 17 as far as I remember today ( the paper is in the trashbin so I cannot look it up again). The results was, that a lot more kids today are afraid or negatively tought by gays, as it was teh fact sopme years ago. That means, that the anti gay sentiments have risen immensely among that age group. Unfortunately I have no clue which institution conducted that survey and what statistical matters were used to find that out, so I cannot guarantee for the results being statistically valid. It was just a newspaper article
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Michael Simon
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Toe is in the water |
Registered: January 1970
Messages: 92
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I am wondering 
I shouldn't
*grins* OK, I try to answer... 
OMG I sound like my old teachers 
