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smith
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On fire! |
Registered: January 1970
Messages: 1095
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Something Mike said has made me, once again,
watch my father, as we don't hug and we don't
talk and we aren't close. He must have liked
loud music, being crazy for no reason and trying
new stuff sometime in his life. I know he loves me
but has he just forgotten what it was to be 15?
Do fathers forget how hard everything was? How
one giggle in church won't send you to hell? When
do they grow up and lose their sense of humor?
Why can't fathers talk to their own sons?
When my sister comes home, his face lights up in
a glow of sunshine and he acts totally different.
In my case, I caused the rift by turning inward
a few years back from a bad experience, but why
hasn't he tried to get past it? He's the grownup.
Tim talked about his friend making the statement
that he would be outraged if his son went on the
internet looking for answers. Well, here I am.
I guess his friend would be outraged with me too.
The longer the time passes, the harder it is to
talk about anything other than football and chores.
There are so many thousands of kids that need
answers but will grow up to be the same distant
slightly forbidding men.
I'm not asking for myself, but in general, for
all the boys that read these threads and don't
post. What happens that keeps fathers from being
able to communicate with their own sons? I've read
here, written by so many of you, that you are
estranged from your fathers and yet, have learned
from the experience and are great dads. I hope I
will be too one day. But, does this only happen if
you struggled with your own childhood?
This has nothing to do with being gay,touching/not
touching. I understand that. I would just like to
understand why it is so difficult between men and
their sons.
~smith
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I wish I knew
Mike
Friendship is the inexpressible comfort of feeling safe with a person, having neither to weigh thoughts or measure words
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My situation is about the same. A father who didn't really know how to express emotions. I knew he had them, HAVE them still, and to a great extent too. He loves me a lot more than I love him actually. Not sure what I feel for him these days. A lot of respect in a way because he's a good person, but very little love.
We weren't estranged, not really. He just wasn't very good at showing what he was feeling for whatever reason...
I've been wondering if it was because of something while he was growing up, but I haven't been able to come to any conclusions. He seemed very close to his mother for example (his father died before I was even born so I never knew him), so it's impossible to say what made him this way.
How did that affect me? I'm even less sure about that. Probably made me a bit insecure, I really don't know. It's something I've tried to explore, but largely failed at.
I've also looked at how men behave in general, men being violent with their children, or just not very understanding. You kind of hit the nail square on the head when you ask if they've forgotten how it was to be 15, when they lose their sense of humor. I myself cannot understand that at all, it's like some people become an entirely different species when "growing up", not human at all, but just...nothing, really. No sense anymore of what it was like to be young.
There's been a LOT of talk about so-called "honor killings" recently over here. Immigrants, mainly Kurds from Turkey or Iraq, who have actually murdered their daughters because they thought their children dishonored the family by having a (Swedish) boyfriend, by staying out late partying, by adopting to our habits and culture etc.
I can't understand that at all either. How can you even CONSIDER murdering your own child? What's wrong with a person who thinks like that, they must be completely incapable of love altogether... I can't fathom it!
So basically I'm wondering what causes people to become insensitive aliens when they become older, and when it happens... I don't suppose I'll ever get any real answers.
-Lenny
"But he that hath the steerage of my course,
direct my sail."
-William Shakespeare, Romeo and Juliet, Act One, Scene IV
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Steve
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Really getting into it |
Location: London, England
Registered: November 2006
Messages: 465
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>>Do fathers forget how hard everything was? How one giggle in church won't send you to hell? When do they grow up and lose their sense of humor?<<
smith, a couple of guesses:
- Many parents see their children as an adjunct of themselves, not as separate personalities. When this unfortunate situation exists the parent thinks that otjers will judge him by his child's behaviour. It needs to be clarified to the parent that his son is a personality unto himself - and I guess that you are still a wee bit too young (in years) to do that successfully. Is there someone who can do it for you?
- For reasons that I do not know your father may feel that he is under peer scrutiny in church, that he must be perfect. If you giggle (horror of horrors!) your impious levity
 reflects on his pious sobriety.
Maybe hidden somewhere here is also the answer to your more general question... I'll tell you one thing: I would be proud if you were my son - and I bet there's not another father on this board who wouldn't say the same thing.
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mihangel
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Likes it here |
Location: UK
Registered: July 2002
Messages: 192
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To Steve's last sentence, a whole-hearted Amen.
It's impossible to generalise, isn't it? Some fathers are admirable dads, some are lousy, with every shade in between. Good dads don't necessarily generate good sons, nor bad ones bad . Some sons are lucky in their fathers, some are not.
One can only speak with any real authority about one's own experience. Speaking as a son, I owe my dad a huge debt. I inherited or acquired a lot of my nature from him: his weaknesses as well, I hope, as his strengths. He didn't relate easily to young children. But from the time I began really to think for myself, from the age of say 12, he was my main source of conversation at home, my main source of fun, my mentor. He did remember what it was like to be young. Yes, I've giggled in church too, and there alongside me was Dad, suppressing his giggles more successfully but still red in the face, and hooting with laughter about it once we'd got home.
My relationship with my own son has been, I think, rather similar. I don't, I admit, much like young kids either. But once my lad became more independent, we did relate. Our tastes don't exactly coincide - in clothes, or music, or dyed hair - but what the heck: why should they? Now at 19 he's a cheerful, considerate, thoughtful person and a splendid companion. I can't claim all the credit, or even much of the credit. But when we talk of things philosophical, or scientific, or political, or sporting, or when we swap bad jokes, or when we wrestle (he always wins ), I thank the stars it's fallen out the way it has. A few weeks back I came out to him. We talked deep. And, though he's straight as they come, he ended by saying "Dad, I'm proud of you". I could only weep.
So I've been lucky, both ways. We have no say in what sort of man we get as a father: it's the luck of the draw. If and when we become fathers, though, it's surely our duty to apply lessons from our experience: to do as well as our own dads did, better if we can, but emphatically no worse. And above all to remember that we were young once, and were sons ourselves. Sadly, not all fathers follow this rule.
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mihangel
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Likes it here |
Location: UK
Registered: July 2002
Messages: 192
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No Message Body
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trevor
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Really getting into it |
Registered: November 2002
Messages: 732
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I think part of the problem is we are never taught to be parents, most of us mostly figure it out as we go, and hopefully our egos, selfishness, and stubbornness don't get in our way. For my parents, men weren't supposed to show emotion, especially "soft" emotions.
For better or worse, we often do what our parents did - I think this is unconscious and it sometimes scares me when I see it in myself.
I also believe many adults are overly focused on one aspect of their lives. Most adult males get their identity almost completely through their occupation, whereas most women are more "relationship" oriented. I heard that women, upon meeting, will often explain themselves through who they know, how they know them, etc.
The longer we follow patterns in our lives, the deeper the groves and the harder to break the patterns, I think. With kids, we know them for so long as "dependants" that it can be hard to think of them as people - independant souls, intelligent, and thinking. Even more so if we don't interact with them enough to see the changes as they happen through the years. It's helped me tremendously to become friends with some of my kid's friends, to read what some of you younguns write here and really THINK, and to have an extended period of time off work. If I really believed I had most of the answers in life, I'd probably be a crappy parent, frankly, not that I'm even close to perfect in that department.
The whole masculine-macho thing further complicates father-son relationships, I think. It's hard to say what we think and feel, share jokes, and still instill the values we'd like to without coming off like a total hypocrite sometimes - at least for me.
I know this doesn't answer the real question - how to fix it. I don't really know how to talk to my father either - we never really had a relationship, but he has softened now that he is a grandparent and some of the pressure is off him and he's rethinking what is important in life.
I don't know if you can say, "Dad, I'd really like to get to know you, to be your friend." or how he might react. But, if it's any comfort, smith, I will pray for you and your father.
Ironically, and I may be reading too much into it, I think putting Jesus on the earth, creating the Holy Spirit, and tossing out many of the laws of the old testament was just possibly God's way of saying relationships are more important than laws and rituals.
He is most likely the only father you'll ever have. If there's anything we can do, please let us know. Yeah, gimme your phone number, I'll give him a little talking-to! Okay, maybe not the best plan, I suppose.
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warren c. e. austin
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Likes it here |
Location: Toronto, Ontario, CANADA
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 247
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As a newcomer here I've spent some time, before piping in, reviewing the content of past "posts" and the attitude of all to what's been posted, much of it before I decided to register.
Steve, I too would certainly have to agree with the sentiments of your message; especially the last. I would be proud to name smith one of my children, wishing only that either of my own sons would have shown the courage and forthrightness that you evidentally do when dealing with their natural fathers.
I often have wondered what makes a good, or bad, father. My own had been divorced three times from my mother, and having just started on his fourth marriage to her before I truly could say that I even knew who he was let alone what he was like; moreover I think it's safe to say that I knew my grandfather better than I did he at that time.
Unfortunately my being outspokenly "homosexual" didn't help matters, a circumstance that was never truly resolved between us; although, whilst I do to this day suspect that much of my father's ambivalence towards both me and my chosen lifestyle stemmed from his quite possibly being a "closeted" homosexual in his own, when needing long-term in-home pallative care in the months prior to his death right, it was to me he turned and not my older brother. This latter situation was one of only two that I can ever recall thinking just how proud of him I really was. The other, occurred when I at the then age-17, and despite his feelings about my being gay, he vorciforously fought for my lover's and mine right to live as we chose, taking on all and sundry, brooking no interference from any, and providing a team of lawyers to protect "our" interests, which weren't always one and the same with his own, and providing the financial where-with-all to guarantee our independence of both him, and anyone else. In retrospect I would have to say he did truly and deeply love me, but one would never have known it otherwise from his behaviour and conduct at times other than the two I mention.
I have never married chosing my then lover over the woman I loved and might have wed; consequently it was a "single" male and reluctant father of not one, but two, Court sanctioned and ordered, adopted teenaged children at age-35, that again thought of his own father, and whether I might do a better job; these feelings haunted me for the next few years, and still haven't receded not-wth-standing both of my sons, neither of which are gay, daily reminding me just how wonderful fatherhood really can be.
Warren C. E. Austin
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tim
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Really getting into it |
Location: UK, West of London in Ber...
Registered: February 2002
Messages: 842
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Men get embarrassed to show affection. It is "unmanly" to hug, weep, show kindness, show emotion. Their fathers and their schoolmates taught them that.
"Crybaby" instead of offering a hug like a girl can offer a girl.
Then fathers see sons as competition. I wonder if I don't BECAUSE I am gay? Would my son have felt different if I had been a str8 guy? Yet below is a comment fomr a gay father who felt unable to hug his son because he became aroused.
Might "all" fathers become aroused at physical contact and be afriad of it? I don't know. I'm not all fathers.
Being manly is overrated. Being a man is not.
But I struggled ith my own childhood, too. Maybe I got it right by overcompensating and becomeing so touchy-feely it is untrue. My son accepts the hugs, even likes them, and is adult enough to be hugged in public, even at school.
My friend would be outraged, smith, yes. More outraged by the hug I am going to offer you. {{{{{smith}}}}} Or I think he would. He would see that as an adult offering an overt sexual act to a minor, or I think he would. And nothing could be further form the truth, but it illustrates the fear that men have of touch, especially with another male.
Odd, isn't it, how they can hug daughters. Not sons.
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Steve
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Really getting into it |
Location: London, England
Registered: November 2006
Messages: 465
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Not all families are like that.
My son and I give each other mutual bear hugs whenever we meet and whenever we part from each other. The same applies between me and my son-in-law.
BTW, with my son the bear hug is always accompanied by a kiss on the cheek, and in return I get one on the forehead.
Queer? Not at all. It is love.
(Just for the record: my son is as str8 as they come and is married.)
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Guest
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On fire! |
Registered: March 2012
Messages: 2344
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well I'm doing this for Tim and I don't now why cause I don't get what I'm suppose to do!? hahaha
ANYWAY my dad is 51 only child and he has struggled all his life. He came to sweden at the age of 18 with no chance of going back to Prague and he saw a lot of bad things in his country and in Sweden.
My dad is REALLY over protecting. Anyone hurting his kids and you die. Well you do. Doctors can only do so much.
Anyway yeah he's really over protecting. He doesn't want me to go to Malta. My dad can't sleep! LOL
He's really affectionate and so am I!
My mum is more for the traditional (good nite kiss) while my dad and I, I mean I still cuddle up in his lap and he has his arms around me and he tells me he loves me and he braides my hair LOL
In the store he holds my hand and tells me he loves me in the middle of the store but I do the sam,e with my mum so it's kewl.
For us that's normal but we are all different. My mum is not like that but she loves me just as much.
Also my dad can be a real son of a bitch. Like he has a temperament from hell and that's okay cause some people are like that but he turns really evil. It doesn't matter where u are ( public is no problem) and how tiny the thing might be he can just exploder and make you want to kill u self in an instant
BTW: he got sorta kicked out from the store the other day! haha
I wasn't with him - thank you god!
I don't think they have forgot how it was like I think they remember it all to well what it was like to be 15. All the bad things that is.
And I'm straight and *laughs* if you think that is easier uhuh.
NO ONE is good enough for daddy's little gal according to him.
So I'm going to Malta hahaha
bTW: when my dad was int he hospital the doctor aked if he had any kids and he said
- yes! 2 older ones and one ( what's it called) well I'm 7 years younger then my sis and 5 years youngerthen my bro, she is my baby.
Dr - well how old is she ?
My dad - 20!
dr! LOL! She is not a baby anymore, she's an adult.
my dad - she will be my baby when she's 35!
So there we go!
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Welcome.
For a first post, yours was a fascinating one. There's indeed much to be learned about other people in this world, one life is as different from another as day and night.
Thanks for sharing!
-Lenny
"But he that hath the steerage of my course,
direct my sail."
-William Shakespeare, Romeo and Juliet, Act One, Scene IV
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trevor
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Really getting into it |
Registered: November 2002
Messages: 732
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No Message Body
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As a father I’m going to put my three ha’pence in for what its worth. I never knew my father he died when I was on two years old. My mother was as smith described a father in "1". of his remarks. And another Amen to his last remark.
When my son was born I imagined all the things we would do together and where I would be able to encourage him. I like classical music but he might like pop. So be it, he is a different person. I have some skills that I hoped to be able to pass on but he appeared to wish to be as different to his dad as possible and any suggestions of things to do were rejected and subjects in which I had no expertise or interest were persued. It became obvious that he wished to plough his own furrow. We sent him to a public school for which his grand mother paid. And now if the subject is ever raised it is "that crappy school, I hated it". What ever he has aspired to do has been a disappointment to him because he is a perfectionist and if it doesn’t come out right it is rejected, whether it is making a model of a dinosaur keeping a place in college. Now at 32 he is just coming to accept me and we do hug but communication is still very hard work beyond generalities. He keeps himself well zipped up. I would have loved to do things with him at 15 - or any age - but what can you do with rejection. Here the boot is on the other foot and I would like to know the answer to the question you posed. Not much help I’m afraid but sometimes fathers are similarly fazed.
Friendship is the inexpressible comfort of feeling safe with a person, having neither to weigh thoughts or measure words
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but also the same. Growing up my father (when he was there) did not show affection, teach me how to throw a ball, or try to relate to me in any way. Yet somehow, as I grew into adulthood, I knew that he was proud of the way I was turning out. He never said so, but just before he died, he did do something totally out of character. He didn't like little kids very much, but when I brought my oldest son in (he was three at the time) to meet his grandpa for the first time, my father actually cried, and hugged his grandson from his hospital bed. Then he thanked me for taking the trouble to bring Philip in (had to get special permission due to the childs age and location in the hospital). That made a difference in my feeling toward them, but did not make up for the years of neglect. Sometimes I think he was trying to make peace, and sometimes I think he was just seeing his own mortality.
But he did leave me one legacy. Although I only see my children twice a year, I do talk to them at least once a week by phone. And I have never said goodbye to them without also telling them that I love them (something I never heard from my father). I am also very free with my hugs (most here know my feelings about hugs), even if it does embarass them sometimes. But one thing I do not want my children to ever wonder about is my love for them. Sorry, guess I am not the macho masculine type anymore.
Hugs, Charlie
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e
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On fire! |
Location: currently So Cal
Registered: May 2002
Messages: 1179
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smith, I wish I could say why fathers are tht way. I don't know. I read your description of your father and you could well have been describing mine.
My father and I were never close, though we were closer BEFORE I entered junior high. It was at that point that he stopped doing most everything with me. Throughout my teenage years, I would have done most anything to get his attention or just to hear him say he was proud of me. It never happened. I played every sport I knew he liked. All the stuff he did and all the ones he watched on TV.
He loved bowling, it was the one sport he participated in. I bowled in a league for ten years, starting in grade school and ending my freshman year of college. NOT EVEN ONCE did he come to see me bowl. I played football from sixth grade through high school. NOT EVEN ONCE did he attend one of my games. I was in the seventh grade the last time he watched me play baseball. I still remember the game. I got hit in the elbow twice by the pitcher, stole a base, and scored a run. My elbow swelled to three times its noraml size and was black and blue. His only words to me about the game was to criticize the one time I struck out.
Once I got my drivers license, practically everything stopped. His idea of being a father was to give me the car keys and five bucks for gas. I would take the bus to his barber shop after school to pick up the car. I'd hear his customers make the usual polite comments about having a "fine son." His response would be to talk about my younger brothers and brag about them. It was almost as though I didn't exist.
Almost, but just let me fuck up, even the slightest bit and he wouldn't hesitate to notice. He wouldn't hesitate to embarrass me in front of his customers with all the details, either.
Even his death served to help ruin my life. I had just finished my sophomore year in college when I moved out of the house. One week later he went into the hospital. Brain cancer, and it was inoperable. Of course all my relatives had to wonder why I would move out at such a time and how could I be so insensitive by moving out when I should be more supportive of my mother. I have an aunt, who to this day, seems to think I walked out on my family in their time of need. He died three months later and was buried on my 21st birthday. My final rite of passage into manhood was spent attending his funeral. Not one member of my family even remembered. I did. That night, I found a bar and drank myself into oblivion. It was the last time I "celebrated" a birthday for nearly twenty years. My wife makes me celebrate them now.
Of course there were a few good times in there. Just not many. It seems to sound worse than it really was. I am more or less over it now. I've simply decided that he was afraid to be a father. It was easier for him to turn to his younger sons than to deal with the older one.
I never had a son, but hope that I would have been a good father. I wanted to be. I think I did ok with my step-daughter. I hoping that in addition to the granddaughter she has provided, she'll throw in a grandson.
Think good thoughts,
e
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trevor
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Really getting into it |
Registered: November 2002
Messages: 732
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I really REALLY can't comprehend this, especially the bowling and football part. I mean, you invest so much of your time and effort (and $, if you want to be totally materialistic) in your kids - even the worst parents - I can't see ignoring something I put that kind of effort into, if nothing else.
Any idea WHY? Could it be related to your orientation or ? Not that that would be a valid excuse, just a possible rationalization for him. I do hope is wasn't as bad as it reads.
I guess I'm just glad you turned out to be a nice guy, e, instead of a serial murderer or something.
*tightest H U G S* Okay, you can inhale now. I needed that even if you didn't.
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e
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On fire! |
Location: currently So Cal
Registered: May 2002
Messages: 1179
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Thanks Trevor *hugs you back*. It was that bad and it wasn't that bad. For the most part I was pretty much ignored by my father. It was almost like I was invisible or something. But he wasn't a horrible guy. He was pretty nice and fairly easy going. But he had a hard time giving any kind of compliment or acknowleging anything I did right. He only seemed to notice when I messed up. In his defence he spent an awful lot of time at work. But he still managed to find time for my younger brothers. I wasn't out. I don't think he ever suspected anything about my sexuality. If he ever did, he never said anything, which is why I don't think he did. He'd likely have NOTICED me then and that would not have been a good thing.
The good part was that I got a lot of material possessions out of it. His attitude translated into "give the kid some money and the car keys and he'll be happy." He wasn't abusive either. He didn't yell, scream, or hit. So at least I didn't have to go through that (from him).
It still boggles my mind that as much as he wanted me to play football, he never came to a single game. Same for bowling. The work excuse worked there for a long time. I bowled on Saturdays and that was his busiest day at work. But as a high school senior I was in an all star league that bowled on Sundays. He was off every Sunday, but he still never came.
I could have easily become a serial killer or ax murderer or something. I considered it many times. I'd daydream about killing people and fantacize about it. I don't know what kept me from totally losing it. But somehow I never did. I considered suicide too. Lots of times. Almost did it once. That scene in Lion's Den where Mike has the gun in his mouth. Set the scene in my bedroom, make it a shotgun, pull the trigger, and it's me. The only thing that saved me was that I forgot to load the gun. I looked around for some shells when I realized it, but we were out.
But that's all way in the past. He's been dead for 23 years next month. My wife makes me celebrate birthdays again, so I guess I'm back to normal. Maybe I'm even a little better than normal because now I've found a place where I can talk about this stuff and just be me. Thanks Tim.
Think good thoughts,
e
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Guest
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On fire! |
Registered: March 2012
Messages: 2344
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my child arrived the other day
he can into the world the usal way
i had planes to catch
and bills to pay
he learned to walk while i was away
he was talking befor i knew it
and as he grew he'd say
i'm going to be like you dad
you know i'm going to be like you
and the cats in the cradle with the silver spoon
little boy blue and the man in the moon
when you comming home dad?...i dont know when
but wel'' get to gether then son
you know we'll have a good time then
my son turned ten just the other day
he said thanks for ball dad come on lets play
can you teach me to through i said not today
i got a lot to do ....he said thats ok
he turned and walked away but his smile never dimmed
and said i'm going to be like him
you know i'm going to be like him
and the cats in the cradle with the silver spoon
little boy blue and the man in the moon
when you commin home dad...i dont know when
but we'll get togetther then son
you know we'll have a good time then
well he came from colege just the other day
so much like a man i just had to say
can you sit for a while ...he said that ok
what i'd really like is to barrow the car keys
see you later can i have them please
and the cats in the cradle with the silver spoon
little boy blue and the man in the moon
when you commin home son...i dont know when
but we'll have a good time then dad
you know we'll have a good time then
well i have long since retired and my sons moved away
i called him up just the other day
said i'd like to see you if you dont mind
he said i'd love to dad if i could find the time
see the new jobs a hassle and the kids got the flu
but its sure nice talking to you dad
its been sure nice talking to you
as i hung up the phone it occured to me
my boy was just like me
he'd grown up just like me
and the cats in the cradle with the sliver spoon
little boy blue and the man in the moon
when you commin home SON
i dont know when
but we'll have a good time then DAD
you know we'll have a good time then.
harry chapin....the cats in the cradle
all this fater son talk brought that song back to me and something i told my self years ago when i was about 15.
I WILL NEVER GROW UP JUST LIKE HIM
it's been tough reading this thread i have shead many tears reading this one but i also have found that i am not alone.
thanks guys and gal
HUGE HUGS TO ALL
peace
tim...of USA
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smith
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On fire! |
Registered: January 1970
Messages: 1095
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e~
Would you mind if I hugged you too? Really tight?
~smith
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smith
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On fire! |
Registered: January 1970
Messages: 1095
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trevor
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Really getting into it |
Registered: November 2002
Messages: 732
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did get me thinking as a teenager, and was why I've tried to teach my son baseball even though I'm clueless and hate pretty much all "organized" sports, professional, anyway. E.g. I have never watched any football game either live or on TV in my life. So, we learn to catch together because he needs it, er - we need it.
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tim
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Really getting into it |
Location: UK, West of London in Ber...
Registered: February 2002
Messages: 842
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Somehow that fits so well.
I didn't grow up like my father. Not "dad". FATHER. He never was a dad. He seemed to love me.
I have not grown up like him. My son and I are friends. I have time a plenty for him.
This song has always made me cry. Did today too.
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tim
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Really getting into it |
Location: UK, West of London in Ber...
Registered: February 2002
Messages: 842
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My father would never play catch with me. My mother was not built for speed and did not play catch with me. Nor did we play soccer. Even though ALL English boys can kick a ball, I could not.
You reminded me that I grew up a total dork, nerd, wimp. He loved me, but he never did it in any practical way.
Can you imagine not being able to kick, or throw, or catch? It makes you the one picked LAST for all teams. It makes the other kids despise you. "We don't want HIM, he's USELESS!"
So my son and I did all these things. He is not picked last for teams. He knows how to get what he wants out of life.
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Guest
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On fire! |
Registered: March 2012
Messages: 2344
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sorry for the tears folsk but judging by the reaction so far i think you see what i was getting at.
being gay and a father is a good thing, it made you that are fathers be more "dad" like than your own fathers. remembering the pain or neglect of our own youth has made us stronger MEN, able to be a MAN and care at the same time....that is a very very good thing.
weather we have kids or not my personal feelings are that most gay men are far more in touch with there feelings than str8 men are, if not in touch we are able to be 'sissy's' and cry and actually show our feelings, for that i am happy being the man that i am. if i were given the option to be str8 and happy for the rest of my life but had to give up my out word expression of feelings or be gay and have my issues and wonder where i fit in....well gay i shall stay.
that song ALWAYS tells me where i came from and where i am not going, thats why i posted it.
sorry time did not know you dont like songs on the board...wont happen again
later floks
peace
tim...of USA
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mt
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Toe is in the water |
Registered: November 2002
Messages: 93
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I’m too drained emotionally to talk about it but e my dear, know that I would take your dad and die happy anytime. There’s a saying that goes “know others’ problems; yours will seem trivial” I’ve yet to believe that!
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I won't post another one either but if you can find a copy of "The Living Years" by Mike + the Mechanics I recommend it.
Friendship is the inexpressible comfort of feeling safe with a person, having neither to weigh thoughts or measure words
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e
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On fire! |
Location: currently So Cal
Registered: May 2002
Messages: 1179
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Of course I wouldn't mind. I'll even hug you back.
Think good thoughts,
e
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e
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On fire! |
Location: currently So Cal
Registered: May 2002
Messages: 1179
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MT, there are lots of fathers that were much worse than mine. Yours may have been one of them. When I see them or hear about them, I consider myself lucky that I didn't have one of them. It doesn't make my problems seem trivial, just not as bad as it could have been.
Think good thoughts,
e
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e
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On fire! |
Location: currently So Cal
Registered: May 2002
Messages: 1179
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That was one of my favorite songs when I was a teen.
Think good thoughts,
e
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warren c. e. austin
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Likes it here |
Location: Toronto, Ontario, CANADA
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 247
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I understand the concept of "FATHER" and not dad, or pops, or others.
Growing up during my teens with my father (as mentioned elsewhere I really didn't know him before age-12) it was always do as I say, not as I do; as in "When I say jump, say 'How high, and when can I come down father'".
I have not ever done this with my two sons.
Like you I've never been "sports" motivated or inclined (other than rugby and lacrosse at boarding school - you should seem my shins today, god how I hated those steele cleets), but found myself willingly embracing hockey, baseball and football, and discovering in the process of sharing these with one or the other, or both boys, that I really wasn't too bad at any of them if given the chance, and the motivation to want to be a willing participant.
This sharing is one of the true blessings of fatherhood, and I'll never understand any father, mine own included, for not wanting to be a part of it all.
Warren C. E. Austin
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mt
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Toe is in the water |
Registered: November 2002
Messages: 93
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I’m sorry, I didn’t mean you by that saying, I meant myself but yeah I see what you mean! That’s why I said I’ve yet to believe it!
What makes things bearable for me is that most of my relatives agree; just the other day my aunt remarked that if she could, she would shoot him in the head and be done with him (she means my father). The weird thing is that as much as I liked the thought (and I said so) I don’t really mean anything bad I ever say about him and I can’t stay mad at him but I can’t love him either and it makes me feel guilty. Ah well, I learned that the best way to deal with him is to ignore and avoid him.
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Fathers & Sons 
Re: Fathers & Sons 
Hi Warren! 
Re: In-f***ing-credible 
