A Place of Safety
I expect simple behaviours here. Friendship, and love.
Any advice should be from the perspective of the person asking, not the person giving!
We have had to make new membership moderated to combat the huge number of spammers who register
















You are here: Home > Forum > A Place of Safety > General Talk > Leviticus & Double Standards
Leviticus & Double Standards  [message #67675] Wed, 17 April 2013 20:57 Go to next message
Nigel is currently offline  Nigel

On fire!
Location: England
Registered: November 2003
Messages: 1756



This one has probably been round the block before, but it is worth giving it an airing.

Hugs
Nigel

(This is widely acknowledged as a legend, rather than fact. Nevertheless it's rather good!)

In her radio show Dr Laura Schlesinger said that for her as an observant Orthodox Jew, homosexuality is an abomination according to Leviticus 18:22 and cannot be condoned under any circumstance.

The following response is an open letter to Dr Laura, written by a U S man and posted on the internet.

"Dear Dr Laura

Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law. I have learned a great deal from your show and try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination ... End of debate.

I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some other elements of God's Laws and how to follow them.

Leviticus 25:44 states that I may possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighbouring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?

I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual unseemliness Lev. 15: 19-24. The problem is how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offence.

When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odour for the Lord Lev. 1:9. The problem is my neighbours. They claim the odour is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

I have a neighbour who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2. clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself or should I ask the police to do it?

A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this? Are there 'degrees' of abomination?

Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle-room here?

Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should they die?

I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev. 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? Lev. 24:10-16. Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair, like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)

I know you have studied these things extensively and thus enjoy considerable expertise in such matters, so I am confident you can help.

Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.

Your adoring fan.

James M. Kauffman, Ed.D. Professor Emeritus,
Dept Of Curriculum, Instruction and Special Education
University of Virginia

PS (It would be a damn shame if we couldn't own a Canadian)



I dream of boys with big bulges in their trousers,
Never of girls with big bulges in their blouses.

…and look forward to meeting you in Cóito.
Re: Leviticus & Double Standards  [message #67676 is a reply to message #67675] Wed, 17 April 2013 21:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
timmy

Has no life at all
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13739



With regard to Leviticus, ignoring Dr Laura, Dear David is well worth a read, though it is somewhat technical. I had the privilege to know the author in person and to count him as a dear friend.



Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
Re: Leviticus & Double Standards  [message #67677 is a reply to message #67676] Thu, 18 April 2013 12:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
solsticeman is currently offline  solsticeman

Likes it here

Registered: November 2012
Messages: 109



Timmy is absolutely right "Dear David" is remarkably readable, and important as a modern rabbinic view of homosexuality. My reading of it took away the thought that if God made us homosexual then it is a sin to judge him to have been wrong to do have done so... the sin is not ours but is the homophobe's.

Dear David is very readable, so if you fear the damnation that Judaism historically meted out to those who gave in to the need for anal union... then read at least the addendum that covers this;

http://www.bmv.org.il/ab/DDaddendum2.html

Rabbi Simchah Roth was one of the senior rabbis whose work brought about female and openly homosexual rabbis.

If all that sounds heavy then forgive me... Dear David is immensely valuable. If you are young Jewish and scared then go read Reb Simchah!
Re: Leviticus & Double Standards  [message #67678 is a reply to message #67677] Thu, 18 April 2013 16:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
timmy

Has no life at all
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13739



He was a great man. The world is the richer for such men, and as a paradox, no poorer for their passing. I miss him, his wife and family miss him, but his work lives on in a huge manner. He would have done more, was doing more after his retirement, right until his death. He was a quiet powerhouse activist for human rights, not just LGBT rights. He never took centre stage, preferring to influence, teach and guide.

LGBT folk worldwide are the better for his work and influence. He was the inspiration behind http://www.keshetrabbis.org/ though the site itself is managed by Rabbi Menachem Creditor and, oddly, his name still appears on the list. In the early days of that site I was happy to offer Rabbi Creditor some guidance in web site creation, but would not claim involvement.

In Dear David, Rabbi Roth showed that the historic texts may be interpreted by modern people. The challenge is that Judaism has different strands. An Orthodox Jew is unlikely to be persuaded by the writings of a Masorti Jew.



Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
Re: Leviticus & Double Standards  [message #67679 is a reply to message #67678] Thu, 18 April 2013 22:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Smokr is currently offline  Smokr

Likes it here
Location: the burning former USofA
Registered: July 2010
Messages: 399



Not to detract from Dear David, but the letter to "Dr." Laura is an infamous fake in its attribution.
http://drlauraletter.com/



raysstories.com
Re: Leviticus & Double Standards  [message #67684 is a reply to message #67679] Fri, 19 April 2013 07:58 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Nigel is currently offline  Nigel

On fire!
Location: England
Registered: November 2003
Messages: 1756



It doesn't surprise me, but it still makes a point.

Hugs
Nigel



I dream of boys with big bulges in their trousers,
Never of girls with big bulges in their blouses.

…and look forward to meeting you in Cóito.
Re: Leviticus & Double Standards  [message #67689 is a reply to message #67684] Fri, 19 April 2013 23:05 Go to previous message
Smokr is currently offline  Smokr

Likes it here
Location: the burning former USofA
Registered: July 2010
Messages: 399



It makes several excellent points, and I don't mean to diminish them or the letter itself, only point out the true origins.



raysstories.com
Previous Topic: English National Junior Champion - Ballet 2011
Next Topic: Daily I skim a variety of ...
Goto Forum: