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tim...of usa
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Likes it here |
Location: buffalo, new york...USA
Registered: July 2002
Messages: 266
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a really good friend of mine from here at the MB has a problem and i am at a total loss as to how to help him, its one of our younger members.
ok his issue he meet a guy on line and has chatted with him both on line and on the phone, he really wants to meet this guy but he knows that his parents are never ever going to let him go to the mall and meet this kid. i am at a loss as to what to say to him or how to help him deal with his paremts and yet be able to meet the guy and keep peace on the home front. its a sticky icky mess that can possible become a major issue.
i totally understand the fact that his parenst worry about who he chats with and may come in contact with on line i really do get it, but at 17 years old (in my opinion) he should be able to make some judgement calls and sort of spread his wings a bit, yes its a big sacry world out here and yes there are some really nasty people too...but how is my friend ever going to be able to learn to judge who is who if he is not alowed to ever step out side of the little box of safty?
i dont know i am not a perent and i never will be so this is way out of my feild of expertese...a little help here!!!
peace
tim...of USA
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On the other hand, maybe he should be proud of being so honest instead. That honesty will be his greatest asset in any relationship he chooses to engage in.  Now I have to say, keep being honest and find a different solution other than lying or telling half-truths.
Our friend just need to find courage to take up the matter with his parents... Maybe all that is required to accomplish that is a bit of time. Maybe the answer will be found here.
Hugs buddy, we'll work this out okay? Keep chatting to Internet Boy in the meanwhile until it's all sorted! He's worth hanging on to, and if there's an ounce of intelligence in that skull of his, he'll understand that also.
-L
"But he that hath the steerage of my course,
direct my sail."
-William Shakespeare, Romeo and Juliet, Act One, Scene IV
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13771
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I'm going to show you "the father's view". It won't look pretty and these views are not views that I endorse.
Net people are- out to abuse my son
- going to abduct my son
- people without real lives
- people who get off on kids
- paedophiles, and my kid is not gonna be paedo-bait
- unreliable
- people who are not who they say they are
The issue the lad has to face is that this prejudice is common, and in many cases is justified.
I was raised in a home where I was not allowed to date even girls I knew, so I have some experience of surving a stupid regime. I also droppe dout of universoty and currently have my 15 or 16th crap job, and no pension and no potential to retire. All of this was rebellion against the authoritarian regime my parents imposed.
My advice for the lad isUnderstand why your parents are being resrictive- realise that you have to be the adult here
- never lose your temper with them howveer justified you know you are
- work within the rules while trying diplomatically to prove that the rules may be changed
- undertand that this would be the same if it were a girl you were trying to meet
- try to make it posisble for a date to meet your folks.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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smith
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On fire! |
Registered: January 1970
Messages: 1095
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If I might offer a suggestion.......If your parents are leery of the net, then have your new friend over to the house. Introduce him as someone you met recently.
I meet new kids at school and at parties and have them over. Is the best and safest way to find out if you're going to be friends and it also satisfies the parents.
Real life isn't a story on Nifty. All you're gonna do is blush and giggle and see if there's anything there. Meet in a comfortable place for you and go from there.
A word in defense of good parents: They only want you to be safe and they will love you enough to enforce that.
smith
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e
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On fire! |
Location: currently So Cal
Registered: May 2002
Messages: 1179
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Don't invite him to the house. The fears timmy listed are justified. It is way too easy to pretend to be someone else on the net and a lot of good people have been hurt that way. Giving him your address could be setting yourself up for trouble.
That said, not everyone you meet on the net is out to hurt people. Some really are looking for friends. Several of our little group have met in person and it seems to have worked just fine. So some relationships started on the net obviously do work out.
Please understand that your parents are looking out for you. They may be overprotective, but it is your safety and well-being they have in mind. At 17 you are almost an adult and I know you feel capable of making your own decisions. I would suggest talking to your parents about this and invite them to come along with you. If they agree, set up the meeting in a very public place such as a mall where security is available. Let the other person know that's the way it's going to be. That way you can show your parents that you are looking out for your own safety and that they can have some assurance that this person is ok. If your parents don't agree. Don't go behind their back, don't lie, and don't be deceitful. Friends come and go, but your parents are yours for life.
Think good thoughts,
e
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smith
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On fire! |
Registered: January 1970
Messages: 1095
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Okay........trash that suggestion.
I guess I was just trying to think of how to involve his parents and keep him safe. Next time I'll let the big guys talk.
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The guy in question is of about the same age as him from within our group and they've talked on the phone, it's not a slimy old paedophile or something...
Of course this isn't a guarantee the other person isn't a psycho or something, but one can't automatically assume the worst of people we meet over the net either.
-L
"But he that hath the steerage of my course,
direct my sail."
-William Shakespeare, Romeo and Juliet, Act One, Scene IV
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13771
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That's the thing. And there si no guarantee that anyone we meet on the phone is not unpleasant. Or not linked to unpleasantness.
I have a friend who was forced to procure other boys for sex for men in a paedophile ring. If not he was afraid he woyuld either have been killed, or worse, handed over by his parents to the paedophile in question. Life is not as straightforward as honest peole think.
E's caution and smith's enthusiasm both have their place here
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Hey there James ...
Don't stop trying to help and don't stop telling us what you think .. In today world we need all the help we can get ..
and I also find that if you listen good enough ..the younger people of this world got the best ideas how to help people from their own age group .. also they can sometimes help us older one too ..
maybe this guy and set up a meeting with this guy at the mall but also have his Dad go too ..and at first just walk by and see what the guy look like and to see what his Dad think .. then go from there ..
now remember this is just an idea .. but make sure at all time he is in a safe place ... and with someone ..incase something goes wrong ..
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e
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On fire! |
Location: currently So Cal
Registered: May 2002
Messages: 1179
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Let me apologize. I didn't mean to make you feel like your suggestion wasn't worthwhile. I KNOW your heart was in the right place. I guess it was just the overprotective parent in me that felt the need to word my response so strongly. It's just that I do feel that meeting people in person that you've met over the internet is a very risky proposition, especially if you are a minor or an otherwise vulnerable person. You should always be very, very cautious about it. You definitely had the right idea about keeping the parents involved, though. Just never give anyone your address until you're absolutely sure about them. Too many bad things can happen if the guy turns out to some weirdo or something.
Don't you ever stop making suggestions, though. Because most of the time, you're right on the mark. I wish I'd had half your wisdom and insight when I was your age. Still do now that I'm my age.
(((HUGS)))
Think good thoughts,
e
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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For gods sake..... Get a grip...... If the boy is 17 years old and his friend is the same age..... Go and meet him...
BUT!!!!!!!
Meet in a safe place..... A burger place or similar public (read safe here) gathering place.
Do not go anywhere with him on your first 3-4 meetings that will bring you to a place that is NOT PUBLIC.
And most importantly of all.... HAVE FUN!!!!!!
Marc
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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e
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On fire! |
Location: currently So Cal
Registered: May 2002
Messages: 1179
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I realize now that I came on a bit strong. I just don't want to see anybody get hurt.
Think good thoughts,
e
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tim...of usa
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Likes it here |
Location: buffalo, new york...USA
Registered: July 2002
Messages: 266
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thats my feelings also marc but it seems that we are out numbered here and everyone on the net feels that every one else is some creepy old bastard or some thing.
i say if your going to meet do it in a nive safe big mall with a ton of other people around...but what do i know.
peace
tim...of USA
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13771
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We would fail in our duty if we did not warn. Equally we shoudl also not seek to terrify.
Most people in this world are honest and genuine. Yet we must seek to protect those who are less street smart than we are
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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e
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On fire! |
Location: currently So Cal
Registered: May 2002
Messages: 1179
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that they shouldn't meet. Only that our young friend be very cautious and obtain his parents' consent. I'm sure that the vast majority of people on the net are who they say they are. But the internet is a wonderful playground for all sorts of freaks and weirdos. We've all heard lots of horror stories. And a good many of them are true. Taking extra precaution can't be a bad idea.
Think good thoughts,
e
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trevor
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Really getting into it |
Registered: November 2002
Messages: 732
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If you have my phone number, you can SO easily look up my address through reverse directories on the web. Not true of everyone, I realize.
I think everyone gave some useful advice above - good words of caution and ideas - just a matter of finding the right middle ground for this particular situation. I also think it might be relevant whether our youngish friend is "out" to his folks and what their "support level" is.
I can say as a parent that meeting my kids' friends is important and will probably continue to be important as they reach dating age.
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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and who's to say whether he was a former mass murderer or invented the black death.
All i could do was to look at the person and decide whether I was going to talk with him or not.
It is just that simple. When it comes to meeting NEW people there are NO GUARANTEES..... In life one must take chances...
Making young people aware enough to meet someone in a safe place is about all we can expect ourselves to do. Otherwise we will bring into the world a generation of paranoids.
Marc
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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This is a social issue here not one of sexual identity.
The advice is valid no matter who you are and at whatever age.
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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Kids need to meet a few times before they can BE friends.
Let the "friends" have a chance to become "friends", then dinner with the parents.
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13771
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When one lives with and supported by parents one has certain obligations, even if one does not understand them or agree with them. In addition one's parents have obligations too.
Child is obliged to help parents see that s/he is growing into a mature and responsible adult, capable of making mistakes and putting them right.
Adult is obliged to give gild as much freedom as child proves they can handle.
Part of this is the adult showing the child how to be safe,and the child proving that they understand it. This includes rules for safe meeting of net friends, or justification of concerns about such meetings if banned.
Part of what the child can do is to show that they understand the "rules" for safe meetings
Part of what WE can do is to showcase those rules. I am content to crreate a page for them if people EMAIL me the rules. I'll consolidate them into a web page
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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What do younger guys yourselves consider "safe enough" rules for meeting people from the Net?
I'd like to know for curiosity, for possible story plots in my writing, and also to use as ideas in my work.
Thanks!
"Always forgive your enemies...nothing annoys them quite so much." Oscar Wilde
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tim...of usa
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Likes it here |
Location: buffalo, new york...USA
Registered: July 2002
Messages: 266
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the advice that has been posted to this point is awesome and very valid, but the question was more directed at how does my friends deal with his parents and how if at all can he show them that he is mature enough to make some judgments on his own?
ok lets put it this way.....
as a parnet what do you look for in your child to know that he is making a good decision or at least a decision that thake in most possible out comes?
and how should or can this set of facts...i am a big boy now...be presented to you as a parent so that you may allow your child to possible do things like meet some one?
maybe i am asking to much here but the issue is not so much the meeting but how my friend can deal with his parents.
peace
tim...of USA
oh and you want to find creepy nasty old guys all dressed in black wanting to get into little boys pants....look no further try the catholic church....and they are not on line looking for little boys.
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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stand on his own two feet and go to the mall and meet this friend.
At 17 the apron strings need to be cut.
Marc
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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Ok .. you tell him to stand on his two feet and go to the mall and meet this friend ..
but you must understand that he wants to do this ...but with his parents blessings ..not go again them and find himself with more problems then he got now .. I don't think he wants to find himself looking for a new place to stay or worst ...
he wants help with handleing his parents to see his way ..not turning them against him ..
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13771
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This is tough.
I need to see that a child is capable of extricating himelf from difficult situations without exposing him to dangerous ones.
I need to trust him, knowing that he will lie to me if I pressure him
I need him to be confident in turning to me for advice and to tell me as much of the truth as he will
I need to learn that my gay son is as trustworthy as my str8 son was before I learnt he was gay
I need to know that MY family values are respected, even if he disagrees with them.
Does any of this help?
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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No Message Body
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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e
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On fire! |
Location: currently So Cal
Registered: May 2002
Messages: 1179
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I always look for and respect good judgement. As my daughter demonstrated to me that she was capable of good judgement, I learned that I could trust her with larger and more difficult decisions and responsibilities.
The fact thart this young man WANTS his parents' blessing in this says a lot.
If I were the parent, I would want to know that he is using good judgement. He could demonstrate that to me by telling me about his relationship with this other person and informing me of the details of how he intends to arrange the meeting. Offering to include me and showing that he trusts me to use my good judgement about this relationship would also help. If I believe that his arrangements are safe and that he is demonstrating good judgement, I would give permission.
When my daughter wanted to bring friends to the house while her mother and I were at work, she asked our permission. She offered to let us meet them first. This showed good judgement in my opinion and knowing that I had always approved of her friends in the past, permission was granted, but with one additional restriction. No boys. She didn't see the need for that, we discussed it and she agreed, again showing good judgement.
I can't speak for his parents, but if he demonstrated good judgement, I'd allow it.
Think good thoughts,
e
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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It is what HIS parents expect......
It is what HIS parents object to......
It is what HIS parents believe......
That matters here. Their perception of how to trust their son.
Hand in hand with what they "know" is also what they "don't know".
Is the boy "out" to his parents?
Is the boy prone to getting into scrapes?
Can he handle himself if something happens?
At 17 a boy is old enough to choose his own friends. He is old enough to be responsible to himself as to his safety when meeting someone.
If he is not, then he had better just pull up a chair on the porch.
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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No Message Body
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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tim...of usa
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Likes it here |
Location: buffalo, new york...USA
Registered: July 2002
Messages: 266
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he is out.
he is a great kid with no trouble in his past.
can he handle trouble if it comes up...i have no clue but he has a good head on his shoulders.
i like your spin on this marc but the issue is his parents he wants them to be a part of his life and to accept that he needs to grwo but he does not know how to get them to see that.
peace
tim...of USA
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trevor
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Really getting into it |
Registered: November 2002
Messages: 732
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I'm hoping that understanding what other fathers are thinking MAY help him understand what HIS parents are thinking. If you understand someone's motives, it's easier to "negotiate" or otherwise work with them productively.
I'm confused on the "out" issue - earlier above you imply it isn't relevant but now you ask the same question? Okay, from the parent's perspective, if this is just meeting a totally platonic friend of the same age it probably is very safe, but if they realize there is an element of sexuality involved (e.g. a first date) then it might set off "predator" alarms. If they know that he may have revealed his orientation to the net friend who is also a guy, they should be asking some questions. So in that sense, it seems relevant.
I think 17 is an "interesting" age where different boys are at different stages. I was quite naive - okay maybe I still am -and my best friend didn't know that maturbation "was possible" at that age - he thought it was just a complete joke. At that age I had some thoughts about older guys including a teacher and know I could have very easily been hurt if I had acted upon those thoughts/hormones. Just examples - hopefully most guys are more aware of themselves and the world than we were, but I KNOW that some are not.
I have a 17 yo nephew who I know is not very worldly at all, partly because his parents have never allowed him the freedom to make any mistakes or learn much. His 12 yo half-brother is given more freedoms and responsibilites, I think. Due to some alleged "activities" with his brothers, I strongly suspect he is gay - not that it's particularly relevant other than I can relate a bit.
One of the things I really like about this board is all the "diverse" people and opinions. It's great to hear all the varying opinions and experiences while respecting them - well that's my take, anyway.
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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He needs to break into adulthood.
No one said it would be easy....
Nothing worthwhile ever is.....
Marc
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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How the parents interpret his motives matters if he is out to them.
In essense, a whole new can of worms.
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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trevor
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Really getting into it |
Registered: November 2002
Messages: 732
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No Message Body
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e
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On fire! |
Location: currently So Cal
Registered: May 2002
Messages: 1179
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Since he is "out" his parents may be more concerned than if they thought his intentions were purely platonic. Their attitude about his sexuality may very well effect the way they respond. But I still think that being open, honest, and up front with them is the best way to elicit their cooperation. He should talk to them, find out what their concerns are and what will alleviate those concerns. Ask them what he can do to get them to agree. If there's nothing he can do, ask them why not. If he doesn't ask, he'll never gain their blessing. Regardless of whether he eventually chooses to meet this person or not, if he wants his parents permission, he'll have to talk to them. There have been a lot of suggestions as to how to arrange the meeting and so forth, but it all boils down his having enough trust in his parents to talk to them.
Think good thoughts,
e
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Guest
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On fire! |
Registered: March 2012
Messages: 2344
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Just skimming through and thought i'd contribute as I have some related experience.
I think some valid concerns have been raised in this thread, but I tend to go with the "he who dares, wins" philosophy of life. I believe in minimising risks, but a life without risk ... well isn't really LIVING.
Internet relationships work all the time - I know people who have got married as a result of a relationship starting on the net. It can be valid way to get to know a person, if that person is honest. However it is possible to deceive and be dishonest to a higher degree as the concerns everyone has raised here support.
I met my boyfriend about 18 months ago online. There were all kinds of potential problems - a large age gap and a good 1.5 hour drive between us. But guess what - its still working really well! I get on well with both his parents and they are comfortable with our relationship.
Now it was thanks to IOMFATS' advice in large part that this worked out. After a few months of talking online, my boyfriend originally wanted to meet in a mall (sound familiar?) and IOMFATS advised me to at least rendezvous at his mum's house. This meant he had to tell his mum of course, and started the relationship out on an honest footing and with the blessing of his parents.
My boyfriend was "out" to his parents and knew they were in principle ok. However there was still the real big issue of the age gap, and as it turns out ours was the first relationship he'd told his parents about. There was a real risk of them forbidding the contact, but I believe that honesty played a HUGE part in making it work. I guess as parents they realised that he could have gone behind there back and were sensible enough to realise that at least this way they had some control over things.
So it seems to me there's 2 main issues. How to meet him, and whether (and how much) to tell the parents.
I wouldn't advocate meeting anyone from the internet without following the usual precautions such as telling a very close friend/family member where your going, when your back or even taking someone as a chaperone etc. If he does meet this guy, he must do it in a safe way (whether its with or without his parents knowledge)
Secondly, I would encourage him to tell his parents. Trust between he and his parents is vital and IOMFATS already posted about the fears of a parent (or friend). Two important outcomes - firstly either it works out and they (maybe after time and pursuasion) "ok" the meeting. Or they forbid it : and I know that wouldn't have stopped *me* at 17. The second way is unfortunate, but as an almost-legal adult he has a right to live his own life and choose his own partners. So being pragmatic I would say he has a hell of a lot to gain from in telling them, and the risk is simply that he carries on with the current lack of (mutual?) understanding and trust.
Sorry to waffle on - i'll put the soapbox away now!
Feangol.
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