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rbryce
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Registered: January 1970
Messages: 216
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Dear smith: Boys like you make me proud.Know this! There are men and women that would gladly give their lives to keep you safe.Search these people out.They make the best of friends.Keep your head high and stick to what YOU believe.Find your own truths as they lay a foundation for a better life.Do not suffer fools as they would betray you.Ask not what others can do for you,but what you can do for them after all the greatest author in history gave us all our marching orders--shed ALL thy worldly goods-pick up thy cross and follow HIM. thus endith the sermon. robert
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Guest
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On fire! |
Registered: March 2012
Messages: 2344
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Well, legally I'm an adult, but only by a few months, so I have to say this topic more suits my needs. I too really can't say I know what war is, because I've never lived through it. All I can say though, is that regardless of the gain, is HUMAN LIFE worth it? Would you be willing to die, if it meant your children got $10 000? What if it meant they weren't picked on by bullies at school? What if it meant they would live for 5 years longer? Personally, whilst the gains I mentioned are worthwhile for a child, it is not worth the loss of innocence resulting in the death of their father. War is sometimes necessary, but it should be avoided at ALL costs.
Like smith said though, religious and political debates are pointless, so please if you want to express an opinion in THIS topic, do so, but don't express it in response to another's remarks, this topic is not for arguing.
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No Message Body
We do not remember days...we remember moments.
Cesare Pavese
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smith
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On fire! |
Registered: January 1970
Messages: 1095
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I don't think he meant to pick up the cross and hit people over the head with it. Don't forget......Blessed be the peacemakers for they shall be called the children of God.
I'm sorry,timmy, if I contributed to this disagreeable discussion. I'll just shhhhhhh now.
smith
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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War is such a nasty word....
Does anyone know where it comes from? Think about it....
War is nothing more than a childs game taken to the N'th degree.
There will always be strife in the world. Our best defense is to fight across the bargining table. A place where minds can solve problems. Outside, where bad boys throw stones at one another, nothing can be solved other than discovering who has the biggest rock.
But most importantly, remember, if we all decided to shed all our possessions there would be alot of nakey butts walking around hiding their winkeys behind that cross.
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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Several thoughts come to mind.
First of all, many of us (especially those of us of my generation) will remember that old bit of nonsense, "Children should be seen and not heard". Obviously, I didn't believe that when I was a child; and I believe it even less now. Unfortunately, it seems that some who didn't believe that when they were young now do, probably because they feel the need to take out their frustrations for being so persecuted on today's younger generation. It is to our detriment (and theirs) that they do so. Arrogance is often at the root of this, the kind of arrogance that says, "I know better than you because I've been around longer, so you can just go to your room and play with your toys." Not only is such askew logic an insult (and not just to young people, either), it goes to the heart of what (sadly) has been going on here lately.
At the beginning of this thread, smith thinks that by simply expressing his feelings he is pushing his opinions on grownups, fearing (quite rightly, as a lot of the behavior here lately has borne out) verbally violent retribution against him, and increasing animosity among everybody else. It is that very atmosphere of arrogance which is the root cause of both that fear and that animosity; and that, I feel, goes totally against the tenets of this message board. As they have proven time and again, smith and his peers provide such a fresh insight to the honest discourse that usually (or should usually!) goes on here, giving so freely of their feelings, their beliefs, and their wisdom which so amazingly transcends their age. It should be the duty and the responsibility of the older among us to insure that, in this "Place of Safety", they feel just as safe and encouraged to participate as the rest of us expect to feel (even more so); but the way things have been going lately, I don't blame them for being reticent (this has all been a just as much a "turn-off" for many others, me included). We are all the poorer for that arrogance, for not only does it cause that animosity, but it also chokes off that most necessary input. Further, a by-product of that arrogance is the bruised egos that are exposed when that arrogance is challenged, and that has caused some few to simply "pick up their ball and go home". While it's sad enough when an adult does that, it's tragic when a younger person is frightened away because of it. smith and Company can (and do) teach the rest of us so many vital things (not the least of which is how to behave like an adult); sadly, though, rather than listening to them and seeking to benefit from what they have to say, too many of us have chosen, through that arrogance, to put them down and ignore them instead, much to our great shame.
That list smith provides in his posting is most telling indeed, as it is a scathing indictment of the atrocities that have gone down even in the (relatively) short time he and his peers have been alive. While he recognizes them as the acts hatred, intolerence, bigotry and fear that they are, I am afraid for him that he feels (for the most part) desensitized to them because they just keep on happening, and believing (therefore) that he has no control over it. As much as one may wish to, no one person can stop all the evil in the world (in spite of a former president of the United States who claimed to have single-handedly brought down the "evil empire" that was called the Soviet Union); but as the millions all over the world who participated in those pro-peace rallies over this past weekend proved, that certainly doesn't mean we should turn our backs to it and pretend it'll go away by itself, because it won't.
What's the solution, then? A most complex question, to be sure. What do you do when confronted by a tyrant (be it a ruthless dictator or a schoolyard bully)? Sure, they must be stood up to and stopped, but there are other ways to do it. One thing I feel is definitely for sure: you only make the problem worse when you attempt to solve the problem with violence, because violence only begets more violence (as, forgive me Steve, we continue to see in the Mideast).
There is much wisdom in what smith's grandfather says about the futility of arguing politics and religion. Implicit in that is the volatile mixture that ensues when those two concepts are combined. That's what happens in any war, where each side fervently believes that God is on its side. Now, if that isn't the height of arrogance, then I don't know what is. This impending war between the United States and Iraq is definitely no exception, as it is a conflict between two Fascist tyrants named George Bush and Saddam Hussein, each holding aloft a "holy book" which each claims as their pre-sanctified justification for their actions. I think that's what Psalm 2 (I think it is) means when it says, "Why do the nations rage so furiously together, and why do the people imagine a vain thing? They the Lord shall laugh unto scorn, they the Lord shall hold in derision." I wouldn't be a bit surprised if there's a corresponding passage somewhere in the Koran.
Sorry, I guess I got sidetracked there.
smith and Company: please continue to feel free (and, above all, safe) to give of yourself here, without the fear of persecution by those few who may have a problem with your participation. They really have no power over you, you know; and it is they that the rest of us shall laugh unto scorn and hold in derision.
We do not remember days...we remember moments.
Cesare Pavese
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rbryce
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Likes it here |
Registered: January 1970
Messages: 216
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i am calling off this little war guys.i found out what i wanted to know.MY GREATEST SORROW IS THAT i HAVE HURT timmy and that was the last thing I wanted to do.Shame shame what a world we live in,all trying to hurt each other and thats sad.I take responsability for pushing buttons.The responses while enlightening were sadly predictable.That does not speak well for some.In truth,no one is correct.As these were only opinions offered and we are entitled to them right or wrong.However I must say that it has been interesting as many showed their true colors and that was frightening.Sorry Timmy,but this zoo bites. robert
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warren c. e. austin
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Likes it here |
Location: Toronto, Ontario, CANADA
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 247
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... either myself, or any other.
You, and all of the youngsters here have the right to have your views aired; and to have them examined with purpose, with charity, compassion and due consideration given for the truths that they may impart.
Listen to Ron, son. He's telling you like it is!
Warren C. E. Austin
Toronto, Canada
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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No Message Body
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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But as you have proved in previous postings your ascerbic innuendo is ever present....
sorry Tim, but this snake apparently has a head at both ends thus bites both ways.
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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warren c. e. austin
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Likes it here |
Location: Toronto, Ontario, CANADA
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 247
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... and the other youngsters here at "A Place of Safety" see and read mine, and other comments to smith's worthy thoughts!
We must never again be tempted to silence the likes of them.
If we fail in this endeavour, we fail ourselves.
Warren C. E. Austin
Toronto, Canada
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Darren
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Likes it here |
Registered: January 1970
Messages: 190
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Hi smith,
As usual, your words are very well put. I normally don't post on these issues because I spend enough time talking about them with everyone else. This issue in particular is so bipolar that there is not much sense in discussing it anyway. In addition, I should also be working and not writing about war and peace, but what the heck. Let's argue....
However, I think the answer to this world crisis is quite simple if you look at it from a purely selfish point of view. Are we the western world going to be better off with this yahoo out of power. Normally, the quick answer would be yes. More oil, no chemical weapons and we get to make a lousy president feel like he actual can do something (hey we all got feelings). However, what now if I said that by removing this bully (as smith called him), we would piss of much of the region. I don't mean the leaders but the people, and todays people are tomorrows leaders. What if we are creating more terrorists by removing a maniac that might not be as bad as they make him out to be. Increasing the likelihood of more attacts on western soil. Are we really better off?
Some of the most refreshing ideas on this subject came from an american. Gary Hart. Yeah, he is the guy that got caught sleeping around while running for the democratic presidential nomination a decade (or more) a go. Well, he headed this terrorism commitee and predicted that Sept11 would happen before it did. His words are such that why go pissing this part of the world off when our own system of protection is not ready yet. Basically, the cost is more than the gain. Basic risk analysis.
Anyway, my two cents worth. And smith, your grandpa was a smart man. This must be where you got it from.
Cheers,
Darren
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rbryce
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Likes it here |
Registered: January 1970
Messages: 216
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Darren, I liked very much what you had to say and how you stated your point.With all due respect,I believe that we are dealing with a people that perpetuate their unreasoning hate through their children.This vicious cycle must be broken at all costs even if that means the loss of human life.
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Thanks smith for your insight and perspective. Here is my view:
I went to Viet Nam when I was eighteen.
I was in my first fire fight within a month, still eighteen.
I was nineteen when I was sent to the Philippines to help recover three Amercan GIs killed by rebels.
I was twenty-three when I saw a man gunned down trying to escape East Berlin.
I was twenty-five when I lost a buddy to a terrorist bomb in downtown Berlin.
I was thirty-two when I was the first American officially notified of the terrorist bombing at the Munich Oktoberfest, which killed many including two Americans and left another American without legs.
I don't want war either. I think there are better ways of removing dictators and spreading peace.
Hugs, Charlie
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ien
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Toe is in the water |
Location: Netherlands
Registered: April 2002
Messages: 81
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No Message Body
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I haven't been around much lately but I would like to put in my three h'pence (old money) and say that Ron's input reflects my views very well. I was 7 yrs old when the second world war started and although I was cushioned from the worst of it it had a great influence on my life. I have been fortunate not to have been involved in any conflicts since - except being bullied at school! I am ambivalent as to whether we should go to war or not. I would certainly prefer to see a diplomatic solution but I have considerable sympathy for smith's view on bullies. One thing I am sure of is that we should NOT be scrapping on this MB.
smith' grandad was right.
Friendship is the inexpressible comfort of feeling safe with a person, having neither to weigh thoughts or measure words
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rbryce
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Likes it here |
Registered: January 1970
Messages: 216
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I just love it when stupid people put words into my mouth,or take things out of context. Mr J,no one mentioned beating anyone over the head with a cross.Perhaps you may have a personal problem with belief but I think most DECENT people do not.Perhaps its because of all the wank stories that you MIGHT have read or some other brain impairment.People without faith seem to be empty shells,void of any substance worthy of redemption.Of course I could be wrong.You could better prove your point with a little christian charity. robert
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Perhaps I should have done this in a private e-mail, but....
It has been my experience that, as a group, agnostics are, by their actions, the most "Christian" people there are, as they are much more willing to accept and embrace. This stands in stark contrast to the Bible-thumping "still-born"...er..."born again" Christians who, as a group, are equally willing (if not more so) to reject and condemn. People like them (Jerry Falwell and his ilk are prime examples) are truly the Anti-Christ incarnate. (Do notice how I say, "as a group": I'm sure this does not apply to everybody; and I do react negatively whenever I see anybody being painted with the same brush).
Typical, however, of the "still-born" mindset is that while they feel they have the right (and, with utmost hubris, the responsibility) to wag condemnatory fingers at others, those others have no right of rebuttal (and woe betide them if they even make an attempt at it!). The "cross" they have picked up is one that has been corrupted and twisted to their own (often evil) ends. This attitude is being reflected here, I'm afraid; and (again) it is creating an atmosphere contrary to the stated purpose of this message board, frightening people like "Mr. J" (who are most in need of "a place of safety") into backing off, thereby stifling their most vital input (and, again, replacing the support they seek with rejection).
Before anybody tells everybody else to take up a cross, they should first know what cross that other person is already carrying. If they did, then perhaps that would put a stop to the finger-wagging. I do wish it would stop here.
We do not remember days...we remember moments.
Cesare Pavese
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smith
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On fire! |
Registered: January 1970
Messages: 1095
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I am neither stupid nor do I have a brain impairment. I have no personal problem with your beliefs, just misuse of quotations. I disliked your use of "take up my cross and follow me" used in the context of conducting a war that will solve nothing and take innocent lives in the process. If I'm not mistaken, Jesus preached love and peace and Christian charity. He hung on that cross, knowing full well he didn't have to...that cross that you feel so inclined to use in your tirade on a war that is akin to picking one rotten apple off a rotten tree.
DO NOT EVER accuse me of having no faith. I find your reference to people without faith being unworthy of redemption in direct negativism from God's word. If I'm not mistaken, that's where your mislaid Christian charity should come into play; not ranting at me when, if I'm not mistaken, you don't know me from Adam. Judge not lest ye be judged.....In other words, cool it. In your own words, you may just very well be wrong.
James J. Weller
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tim...of usa
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Likes it here |
Location: buffalo, new york...USA
Registered: July 2002
Messages: 266
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rock on little bro rock on
peace
tim...of USA
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Your response was beautiful and well-measured and very very right. I salute you as the very intelligent and clear-headed young man you are.
As for you, Robert... You wrote this to me in response to one of my stories:
"Bravo! What a fantastic beginning.I truely hope with all my might that you continue with this story.It is a triumph.I do hope you tone down the sex a bit,the love and romance are enough to compliment such a story.The message is quite clear for all to see,that love has no boundries nor barriers and that it (love) transcends all things and that all things are possible under God. Again, bravo! robert bryce"
Robert, what happened to you? Why do you not live like you preach? I am utterly disappointed in you. Maybe you need to study that love which transcends so many of those barriers you seem hopelessly trapped behind.
An apology to smith for shaming and insulting him, and for despoiling the sanctitude of this Place of Safety should be forthcoming from you very swifthly I expect.
Sincerely:
-Lenny
"But he that hath the steerage of my course,
direct my sail."
-William Shakespeare, Romeo and Juliet, Act One, Scene IV
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A Kid's Point Of View 
I think he's right 
Re: A Kid's Point Of View 
Huh???... 
Re: A Kid's Point Of View 
Re: A Kid's Point Of View 
Well, that was just special !! 
