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Guest
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On fire! |
Registered: March 2012
Messages: 2344
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I know i don't post much in this messageboard but i do come here every so often to check out some of the topics you guys discuss. I agree with some of them and not with other. I think that is just human nature. Anyways, this is the real reason i came here:
Currently i'm doing a research paper on "Cloning".
My question is "Is cloning morally and ethically correct?".
I do not want to start a fight between you guys but i would like to get some opinions about the subject.
I am open to any ideas since I think everyone has some truth in what they have to say.
I hope to get some answers soon. The help would be truely appreciated.
Have a great time everyone.
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e
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On fire! |
Location: currently So Cal
Registered: May 2002
Messages: 1179
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I think it depends upon how the clone is treated. I don't have a problem with the concept of cloning, but a clone should be treated as a seperate individual with the same rights as anyone else. Not looked upon as some sort of slave or pet or possession as frequently portrayed in sci-fi.
Think good thoughts,
e
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That's a toughy. I'd have to look at it from this point of view. Cloning in order to harvest organs for those who really need transplants is not only morally and ethically right, it's imperative. I feel that if cloning is done for life saving reasons, I can't fault it. The question is this though: are clones any more valuable than natural borns? Do they have a soul? We've been so worried about the rights of the individual that a question of how cloning for humans would be done is a major concern. If we can simply clone tissues or organs without having to clone whole individuals, well, that would be fine. But if you have to create a whole human body....isn't that the same as creating a slave force, even if it's only for generating spare parts, as it were. And what about the slave issue? Could we mass produce some sort of genetically altered and then mass produced slave species....frightening. Before anyone jumps on that band wagon,I just want to point out that any society that has been based on slavery as an economic means has failed, horribly.
Geeze, I get out the soapbox too much. Not sure if that helped, but perhaps it will give you a checkpoint on what some of us think. Good luck on your paper!
It's not the wolf you see you should fear, but all the ones he howls with. Don't be afraid of the song, but don't piss off the choir.
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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At present the technology is limited, and produces more failures than successes.
Once it becomes successful there are major misapprehensions people have which seem to be uncorrectable. They forget that a clone is a spearate living entity, and that it has to go through infancy, childhood, etc etc , and is not an "immediately ready life".
A clone has its own life, expereinces, personality and simply contains the same genetic material as the units it was cloned from.
It is similar to, but not the same as, an identical non mirror twin.
The true argument against cloning is that it limits the gene pool.
I see little wrong with it in principle, however.
Cloning from (eg) Adolf Hitler woudl not produce another Adolf. Instead it woudl produce a perosn looking and sounding like him, but with his own life experiences.
In reality cloning is very like the nature versus nurture argument.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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I don't want to read what others have said already since I don't want to be unduly influenced.
Do I think cloning is right? I'd have to say both yes and no to that. 
Yes it is right, because there are few technologies that are fundamentally unethical and/or immoral. Even weapons tech is ambiguous in its nature. Cloning may well find a very legitimate use somehow if we can make it work.
On the other hand I have to say no also, at least when it comes to humans (and preferably, other primates). Currently, it does not work at all. We made it work with some animals, but the clones were flawed. We can't make experimental humans (or even apes) that are born with defects or develop some condition after a while, maybe age and die prematurely and suffer because of it. That would be immeasurably cruel!
So how do we perfect a technique without experimentation? I don't know. Maybe it's best to simply ban human cloning altogether.
-L
"But he that hath the steerage of my course,
direct my sail."
-William Shakespeare, Romeo and Juliet, Act One, Scene IV
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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Cloning in plants and lower species for the purposes of bettering output or yield for the sake of productivity is of course acceptable.
But when it comes to a human being it is entirely another matter. People are individual, and there is absolutly no way exact copies could ever be made because a persons makeup is as much social as it is biological. Exact copies are not possible as the the events which form the inner makeup of the entire individual human experience would be immpossible to duplicate.
Given human nature, a society that adopted cloning as a matter of practice would eventually degrade into a class structure of "pure blood" masters and subserviant "copies".
This is just a couple of arguments which could be expanded upon.
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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But what of the being that the organ is harvested from? Surely he would want it for his own use.
As for the "soul"? Hmmm ..... now there is a poser.....
Some religons believe the "soul" or life force is present in all life. Where other religons believe the "soul" is individual to the host being. If a clone has the capability to ask if he has a "soul" then the answer has to, by default, be yes.
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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Since the genetic material is identical, how can one distinguish between source genetic matter and the clone?
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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That is a question for a scientist..... One versed in the art of biology.
I would leave identification to man's ability to control his environment. He would invariably develope a marker or some such tag which would identify the clone.
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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saben
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On fire! |
Registered: May 2003
Messages: 1537
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Thinking about cloning is painful, especially when taking a spiritual point of view with it. If your "spirit" is what governs your thought then would a clone of the person make the same choices and if so does that mean they have a shared spirit... Gah, thinking about it hurts too much- just like trying to think of going back into the past and influencing your own future.... *groans* I think I'm going to stop now before I confuse myself anymore...
Oh, but to answer the original question, assuming humans are only "meat" and spirit doesn't exist then yes it is morally correct to clone, especially for medical purposes...
Look at this tree. I cannot make it blossom when it suits me nor make it bear fruit before its time [...] No matter what you do, that seed will grow to be a peach tree. You may wish for an apple or an orange, but you will get a peach.
Master Oogway
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rbryce
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Likes it here |
Registered: January 1970
Messages: 216
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Hot topic guys,enough to give a guy a serious headache.Just a thought and respectful opinion.Medical science is at the very edge of some wonderous breakthroughs.If the science of cloning WOULD lead to a science of tissue regeneration and self-generated tissue replacement,I think that would be a good thing.Please remember the lessons of history.Perhaps the advent of religion was a good idea.But the observer will note how THAT was corrupted and by well meaning people,some not so well meaning. I think,and this is only an opinion,that there are some powers out there that would abuse this science and it would be a bad idea to let the boy scouts keep this science honest and not corrupt the Human race. rob
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I haven't run through this whole string yet, but one aspect of the whole cloning thing that has just perked up in my brain is about Eugenics and self propogation.
Like many of us out there, I find myself constantly feeling the need to nurture someone, even if my cynical and often times dark humors obscure that tendancy. My friends once told me I was too noble for my own good at times, and that is a part of it too, I guess. The meat and milk of it is this though: I know that I would personaly love and adore and forever cherish the opportunity to have a child of my own. And with the way things stand with my social and sexual preferences at this time, it's simply not possible.
I find it totally unfair and unacceptable that a single woman can go out and get herself pregnant, through various means, and decide she doesn't want/need/desire a man around to help her raise her child, yet a monitarily secure, respected, moral and ethical man has no recourse to the same, especially should that man turn out to be either gay or bi (by his own definition).
Now the part of my rambling speech that makes any sense at all to the questions asked here is this.....could cloning be considered an option for childless families or individuals? Aside from the eugenics involved, or even the potential ability to choose such things as family traits and tendancies, hair and eye color, body shape, sex of the offspring and even things like removing genetic defects, is cloning a socially viable option in family planning situations.
For myself, I would probably slander and lie, fight, kill & die in order to have a child on my own, if poosible. I understand that there are alternatives, but....the thought that you could walk into a room at night and simply watch your own son breathing as he sleeps, feel his weight press in on you when he's scared or hurt, watch him smile as he manages a new skill or brings home high marks from school, or just plain watching him laugh as he has fun with his friends in the back yard.....it catches me sometimes, you know? If cloning would leave such an option open, despite the risks and the moral outcry from those too "pure" to see past the end of their noses, then count me in. All the way.
It's not the wolf you see you should fear, but all the ones he howls with. Don't be afraid of the song, but don't piss off the choir.
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saben
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On fire! |
Registered: May 2003
Messages: 1537
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One would think that if the desire for child was so strong that gender would be a non-issue, or at least a minor one. Would you still kill for a daughter?
Look at this tree. I cannot make it blossom when it suits me nor make it bear fruit before its time [...] No matter what you do, that seed will grow to be a peach tree. You may wish for an apple or an orange, but you will get a peach.
Master Oogway
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rbryce
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Likes it here |
Registered: January 1970
Messages: 216
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Fantastic post.Bold and well thought out! I too would wish for a son to nurture and watch grow to manhood.Thanks for the post. rob
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rbryce
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Likes it here |
Registered: January 1970
Messages: 216
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Fantastic post.Bold and well thought out! I too would wish for a son to nurture and watch grow to manhood.Thanks for the post. rob
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rbryce
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Likes it here |
Registered: January 1970
Messages: 216
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Fantastic post.Bold and well thought out! I too would wish for a son to nurture and watch grow to manhood.Thanks for the post. rob
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Maybe because they're gay and haven't had much contact with women, or maybe because they think men deal with boys and women deal with girls, or maybe for some entirely different reason.
It needn't be that they neccessarily wouldn't love a girl any less than a boy, but that they feel more comfortable with the thought of raising a son simply because they have their own childhood and memories as a boy to lean back on and take experience from.
Does that sound reasonable?
-L
"But he that hath the steerage of my course,
direct my sail."
-William Shakespeare, Romeo and Juliet, Act One, Scene IV
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rbryce
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Likes it here |
Registered: January 1970
Messages: 216
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a very specific reply to Saben------I WOULD KILL MY WIFE IF SHE MUCKED UP AND DELIVERED A GIRL. hehehe rob
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saben
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On fire! |
Registered: May 2003
Messages: 1537
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But what a great learning experience it would be for a gay couple to have a daughter.
Look at this tree. I cannot make it blossom when it suits me nor make it bear fruit before its time [...] No matter what you do, that seed will grow to be a peach tree. You may wish for an apple or an orange, but you will get a peach.
Master Oogway
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rbryce
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Likes it here |
Registered: January 1970
Messages: 216
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Any kind of test out there to see if sex of offspring can be predicted?
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Yes. And I'd take the same stand for my niece as well. It's not the point of the matter. The fact is....you know, it's hard to figure out the facts of an emotional statement, but I think you get the idea.
It's not the wolf you see you should fear, but all the ones he howls with. Don't be afraid of the song, but don't piss off the choir.
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I have not yet totally formed an opinion on this issue with one exception.
Those that seem to use religion as a basis to oppose this practice are far to short sighted. When I hear them speaking as if on behalf of God, or that they know better than anyone else what God would want from mankind (womankind too hehe) I ask myself one basic question, how do you know this to be his will. Perhaps God wanted us to use technology to further the health and well being of all his children.
Again, it’s Kevin with the “what if” thoughts once again.
Perhaps their moral compass might also keep them from killing an abortion doctor?
Ouch, another controversial topic. Hehe
I extend my sincere apologies to those who just hate when I do that.
Love to all,
Kevin
"Be excellent to each other, and, party on dudes"!
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trevor
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Really getting into it |
Registered: November 2002
Messages: 732
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I understand the logic behind "we should not play God by creating people and manipulating genetics" but this sort of implies that all/most of nature's results are indeed the will of God - but does He intend for birth defects and other abnormalities or does He simply allow them to accidentally occur just as He allows (presumably) free will of humans?
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trevor
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Really getting into it |
Registered: November 2002
Messages: 732
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already separate the gender of sperm with an electric current or something to 80% accuraccy, or am I smokin' somthing? I think they have to use AC/DC to find the bisexual ones.
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ien
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Toe is in the water |
Location: Netherlands
Registered: April 2002
Messages: 81
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*small lesson in genetics* Females only have X chromosomes, males have X and Y, so in order for a women to have a boy, her man has to deliver the Y in stead of the X.
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rbryce
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Likes it here |
Registered: January 1970
Messages: 216
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but its more fun to blame the girls as men can do no wrong. r
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rbryce
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Likes it here |
Registered: January 1970
Messages: 216
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So nice for you to admit that guys are more complex- r
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rbryce
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Likes it here |
Registered: January 1970
Messages: 216
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yea--that draconic methods of birth control are a good idea. hehehehe rob
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Guest
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On fire! |
Registered: March 2012
Messages: 2344
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I dont understand girls much but I sure as heck am NOT gay!
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My opinion, since you kind of asked for it... 
A pedantic question 
Re: I need opinons 
Re: Only the thought of a son appeals? 
Re: I need opinons 
Re: Maybe some guys feel they don't understand girls? 
