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On fire! |
Registered: March 2012
Messages: 2344
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I have been with my husband for nearly 10 years. When we first met, i found letters from another man, in which it seemed like a pretty romantic love affair. I confronted him about this back then, and he said nothing happened between this guy and him, he was just "experimenting" at that time in his life. I took his word for it, and we got married. We also have 2 beautiful babies from this marriage. For the past few years, I have been literally begging for sex. He hasn't had too much of an interest, he always complains he is tired, etc, etc. So on average we have had sex about 3 to 4 times a year. I just find this so bizarre, and I'm not trying to brag, but I am a pretty attractive woman considering I am a model as well. (We actually met years ago when we both were in a commercial together.) Anyhow, I am tired of being confronted by outsiders who secretly question if my husband is gay. He has a good job, and also interior decorates on the side. We never fight, he has been a wonderful friend to me during this relationship, but we just haven't been too romatically involved. I am devastated the more I think about this, I just can't believe he dosent find me attractive. I feel so ugly, so unattractive. Am I in denial?
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trevor
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Really getting into it |
Registered: November 2002
Messages: 732
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I don't know what she'll have to say, but I'll post anything useful as well as invite her here again. At least perhaps she can commiserate. Hey, maybe a ladies' auxiliary message board?  Sorry, I do try to find a bit of humor everywhere, yet I know this is very serious.
I can say we went for a couple of years as housemates simply cohabitating and coparenting. She, too very much "feels loved, secure, beautiful, and desired" through sex. To me, this is very difficult to understand, but I do it to show her that, and am enjoying it. Sex per se, quite honestly, I'd just as soon do myself, and she knows that, but the intimacy and closeness and openness that I could probably get from snuggling she finds in sex. So, we compromise for our soulmates - I only "put out" once a week or so and she tries to not take more than I want to give.
For a very brief history - I figured out that I am gay only about 2 years ago now, although we've been together 20 years and she's been my only lover. I don't honestly know if I've been suppressing or ignoring my feelings or just quite ignorant.
I can say that the honesty and "explaination" has brought us together closer than we probably ever have been seen our teen years, which was probably more lust and "in love" than "loving."
Also, on a totally different angle, he MAY have a low testosterone level - an actual chemical imbalance. My (lady) doctor tested mine with only a few polite questions. My wife's friend's hubby had this problem and some treatment seems to have made some significant changes.
Also, people DO change over time, and "asexuality" is a recognized "sexual orientation" - lack of desire - I'm told.
I do hope you hang around and get some more opinions and, well, just vent and direct some of your frustration at us gay guys, if that helps!
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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As a gay man I find my wife attractive, and wish to make love to her. That is because I love here, primarily, since my physical turnons are male. Yet she turns me on. And she is almost unique among women in her ability to do it.
That your husband has experimented in thought or in deeds with another guy is not surprising. Nor is the fact that you have two children. What does surprise me is that people ask if he is gay. I am wondering why?
You see, there is nothing about 99% of we gay married men that appears remotely homosexual (Camp etc). Though I have often seen slightly "fey" heterosexual men,, whcih is a sort of surprise, somehow.
I think this is about two separate things. One is you, the other is him.
Looking at him, is he under any stress, or has he become semi impotent and is embarrassed about it?
Looking at you, please let it not matter IF he is gay. But you have real needs and need him to come to bed with at least some enthusiasm.
A practical suggestion is that each of you have a day (alternatie days) where you may ask for things, and the other should respond "yes" provided there is something in it pleasurable for them. This INCLUDES but is not solely about sex.
For examples "Today I would like to go for a walk by the river and have lunch in a riverside bar" is a sane request and inmviolves mutual companionship and pleasure. Another day it might be "I would like to take you to bed and to seduce you, giving you total pleasure."
There is no way of knowing precisely where this will lead, but it may lead not towards a confrontation, but an understanding.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Guest
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On fire! |
Registered: March 2012
Messages: 2344
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Thanks for the replies, I do appreciate any insights that you all may have. The only problem I am having with these replies is the fact that...if let's say my husband is indeed gay...I personally would respect him no matter what, but I persoannly do not want to live a lie. I am a heterosexual woman who wishes to be loved and to give love mutually. I do not wish to "shelter" someone because they feel ashamed of what they may be, or are afraid to come out of the closet. I want to be with someone who is self-assured, who is comfortable in their own shoes. I went to a therapist yesterday to discuss this matter, and I think I am in denial because the therapist has strong feelings that my husband is gay. And sadly, I have been making excuses for years proclaiming to family and friends: "Sex is not that important, being best friends in a marriage is." Needless to say, what an idiotic statement that was, because as I have grown a little more, I have realized that a marriage is a blend of being friends, understanding eachother and intimacy plays a major factor. Perhaps my husband could have a sexual problem with the fact that we only have had sex 3 to 4 times a year and during the actual sex..it lasted only about 10 to 20 minutes of I was lucky. He would relieve himself, but I wasn't really pleasured or satisfied for myself. Yet, when I have complained for years, nothing would change. ...But yet, we make the best friends you could ever imagine. We laugh together, listen to eachother, are always there for eachother, but as far as intimacy, we have basically nothing. It hurts. I am so confused. I don't want to believe he is gay, it would crush me, knowing we lived a lie. His best friends are all gay, he will sew a button on my clothes in a second flat if needed, he can alter anything (sew), and he loves his interior design. One of the most interesting things was the fact a gay friend of mine asked me in private if my husband was gay. I was shocked and asked him if he knew anything I didn't. My friend said he didn't, but was just curious because he "felt a vibe" that gay men can feel between eachother. I am so confused. I don't know what to do. When I have confronted my husband and questioned his sexuality, he gets PISSED! So I guess I will just have to live in silence until something happens.
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First, hello, happy thst you're here trying to figure things out. Going to the therapist was also a gutsy thing to do, too.
But I'm not sure how the therapist could possibly know whether your husband is gay or not. After all, he only knows your husband thru what you had to say about him, third person.
There are sooo many reasons why some men have trouble expressing themselves sexually. Being gay, low libido,high stress, being asexual, all these are but a few of the possible reasons. Others not mentioned yet include a history of some sort of abuse. The most complex sex organ is the brain...
Your husband may get angry when you bring it up because he himself may not know for sure, any more than you do.
None of this helps you decide what YOU need to do for yourself. Your needs are legitimate, and you aren't being mean-spirited or selfish in stating what you need. You know what's going well, trust yourself about what's not going well enough.
Do you live in an area where there may be therapists who specialize in sexual issues in couples? That's what I recommend, along with encouraging your husband to come along with you. The objective third person may help him be articulate about things he can't say or doesn't know about himself right now.
That would also allow you to keep being pro-active and not having to suffer in silence.
"Always forgive your enemies...nothing annoys them quite so much." Oscar Wilde
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e
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On fire! |
Location: currently So Cal
Registered: May 2002
Messages: 1179
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I wish my wife would ask. I've tried several times to tell her, but she always changes the subject, quickly. I've concluded that she either suspects or knows, but wants to deny. So I've decided to respect that.
You say you've "confronted" him and he "gets PISSED." That may be a poor choice of words, or simply the wrong approach. A confrontation will immediately place him on the defensive. He may feel threatened or feel that the marriage is being threatened. You don't say how you've confronted him about this. I might suggest asking him what to say when friends ask you if he is gay. Or simply get into a conversation about sex and intimacy. Try not to be threatening in tone and choose your words carefully. As others have suggested, there may be other reasons for his lack of interest in sex.
Talk to your therapist about getting him involved in your therapy and how to approach him about it. One way is to suggest "My therapist would like you to join us for a couple of sessions, there are some things we've been discussing and she would like to hear what you have to say, so she can help me better." Make it sound as though this is your problem and he is helping you with it. Make sure your therapist does the same.
One thing to consider. If he is gay then he has given up much in order to be with you. I could never be in a marriage with a woman and remain faithful unless I loved her very much. I do love my wife and am faithful. Don't look at your life together as "living a lie." Look at it as making a sacrifice for the one you love. If he is gay, then he is making this sacrifice and he is expecting the same from you. This sacrifice may be one that you are no longer willing to make. But if you look at it as a sacrifice instead of a lie, it makes what you have shared for many years much more precious and special instead of deceitful. This point of view gives you something to build on rather than something you would prefer not to have lived.
Think good thoughts,
e
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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I don't live a lie and never have. BUT I had a really hard time admitting to ME that I am gay.
It was only when I was 46 or so I admitted it to myself and my world both collapsed and became clearer.
Also there is no line with gay at one end and str8 at the other. Sexuality has infinite variations, includiing sights, sounds, scents, locations as well as genders.
I think you are doing fine. He may also be, and you may just be missing in the middle.
A possible thought is a conversation about when it is the right time to tell the kids that you will love them just as much if they come home with a girlfriend or a boyfriend.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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rbryce
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Likes it here |
Registered: January 1970
Messages: 216
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No Message Body
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Guest
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On fire! |
Registered: March 2012
Messages: 2344
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Thanks again everyone for your replies/insights on this topic. However, we did go to a marital counselor a month ago, and my husband told the therapist: "Yes, I had a gay experience in the past, it wasn't for me, and I am happy with who I am now." After that statement, the therapist never questioned anything any further. The whole topic was dropped. I went to my own therapist yesterday, and this therapist has asked my permission to have my husband attend a session in thr near future. (And I'd like to add that this new therapist thinks I am in denial that he could be gay, because although I have reasons to believe he is gay, I immediately come to his defense and give reasons why it can't be true.
As to the living the lie part....well, I am a pretty optimistic person, but if indeed my husband is gay, why should he "sacrifice" his life for me. Aren't we all here on this earth to be happy for ourselves. Of course loving and enjoying others is important, but if we as people are not fully happy with ourselves, how are we supposed to make others happy? I'm sorry, I just don't understand this concept of just being happy he is "sacrificing". If this is indeed the case, I feel sorry for him, how sad to live your life not doing what you really want to do. Life is too short! And not only that, this is teaching our young children that a non-affectionate marriage is healthy. I fully disagree, and want my children to live in a happy, nurturing environment.
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Hmmm happy and affectianate. Speaking from a kids point of view I hate when my parenst are affectianate makes me feel uncomfortable. It might actually be better for youre kids for you to live like this... If marriage is supposed to be forever prove that you can make it work ya know. Ya guys can correct me if I'm wrong though, never been in a marriage before ya know.
Peace and Trees
~Andy
Why are you wearing that stupid man suit?
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e
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On fire! |
Location: currently So Cal
Registered: May 2002
Messages: 1179
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In order to establish and maintain a relationship many sacrifices are necessary by both parties. A relationship is as much give as it is take. I could live my life as a homosexual and be happier with my sex life. Instead I have chosen to live as a heterosexual and be married. THAT makes me happier overall. By looking at the sacrifices each partner makes for the other, we can tell just how much we mean to them. If your husband is indeed gay, then you must mean a great deal to him.
However, I cannot speak for your husband, only myself. I am very happy to be married to my wife. Sex is only one part of life. It is something that I am willing to give up (at least the homosexual sex) to be married to her. I enjoy the friendship and companionship that we share. I would not want to be without it.
By using the word "sacrifice" instead of "lie," I am trying to get you to view the history of your relationship as more positive. It has obviously meant something to you because you have been married for so long. You speak now of your marriage being "non-affectrionate," but previously you spoke about "friendship." If you don't love each other and the relationship is not healthy, then perhaps you are teaching you kids the wrong thing. However, if you do love each other and are friends, then you may be teaching your children that it takes much more than just sex to make a relationship work.
I'm not saying that things shouldn't change between you and your husband. Obviously, you are dissatisfied. You should certainly pursue improvement in your relationship. Don't be so inclined to dwell on your husband's sexuality. If he says he is not gay, pursue it from another angle. I would advise doing this in therapy since that may be more of a neutral environment. Try to discover why he is uninterested and what might motivate him. Also let him know your feelings and desires. Try to understand him and try to get him to understand you.
Your therapist should not simply conclude that he is gay and you are in denial based on only what you have said. He might not be gay. There could be other reasons for his behavior.
Think good thoughts,
e
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e
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On fire! |
Location: currently So Cal
Registered: May 2002
Messages: 1179
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What if your husband actually admits to being gay? Would you still want to remain married? Is there anything he could do to make the marriage work?
If he is gay, part of the problem in getting him to admit it is what he believes will be the consequence of his admission. If he wants to remain married, but is afraid you would not, that could be part of why he refuses to admit it.
Think good thoughts,
e
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e
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On fire! |
Location: currently So Cal
Registered: May 2002
Messages: 1179
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My parents never showed much affection in front of us kids, but I remember that I did feel uncomfortable when they did. There are lots of pros and cons to maintaining a marriage "for the children." I think that whether it is done has to be looked at on an individual case basis. Some marriages are just so bad they do more harm than good. Though most children would prefer to see their parents together no matter what.
Think good thoughts,
e
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rbryce
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Likes it here |
Registered: January 1970
Messages: 216
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for wharever it is worth,you have our support! rob
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trevor
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Really getting into it |
Registered: November 2002
Messages: 732
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In response to your original posting, and without reading anything since, my wife says:
Two things come to mind. First of all, it is very important to make sure that all physical things are okay before jumping to conclusions. I have a friend who had begged for sex for 23 years. She finally stood in front of her husband and cried, asking him what was wrong with her. She decided she couldn't take it anymore and filed for divorce. Two months later he went in for a physical. The doctor decided to check his testosterone. It turns out his was way below normal. He is wearing a patch now and wants sex sometimes two or three times a day. But it is too late for her marriage. She found someone else. Between the two families, 12 children are involved. If they had realized this 20+ years ago, their marriage could have been saved.
Now for the second thing. There certainly is the possibility he is gay. I found out almost two years ago my husband is gay after being married for 15 years. I am lucky he has never had another relationship or an affair. And, my husband loves me. I was totally freaked out at the beginning. For me, I had to draw some lines in the sand. I would not allow pornography in my home. I have two young children and it was something I could not allow. My husband was very reassuring. He has told me he loves me for who I am, not whether I was male or female. He has worked hard at our marriage. For me, I guess, finding out was a good thing. We had basically been roommates for three years before that. His reaction to me and my reaction to him at the time has brought us much closer together. He is actually sleeping in our bed again. I still want more sex that he does and we have compromised. We were at 1 or 2 times a year. We are now averaging once a week. Finding out was devastating but what has grown out of the ashes is a beautiful, caring relationship that is good for both of us. Not that there are not still times when I am freaked out. My hardest thing is not being able to really talk about it. It is just not something you going around sharing with people.
Do you love your husband? Does he love you? I only know because I confronted my husband. It is possible to be married to a gay man and have a wonderful loving relationship. Communication is the key. My prayers will be with you as you work through this time in your life.
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trevor
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Really getting into it |
Registered: November 2002
Messages: 732
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Well, if you are asking us and willing to talk about it, I wouldn't call it denial - although of course the therapist may not have see "this side of you." Your husband is your best friend and co-parent (at least) - of course you defend him - you care about him.
Is it a lie if you eventually honestly talk about it and make informed, conscious decisions? I think compromise is essential to most relationships - I wouldn't necessarily use the word "sacrifice." No relationship is perfect in every way. I'm sure you have other friendships which are imperfect and you compromise and choose to overlook imperfections in the relationship because it is valuable to you.
Several of us have decided we will ultimately be happiest staying with our solemates, the ones we know and understand and love already. We doubt we will find a better overall relationship elsewhere. After all, sexual "compatibility" is just one aspect of a loving relationship.
My wife and I also went to counseling about 3 years ago for essentially the same reason you did. It was "my wife's" counselor and I was going along to help solve her problem of not getting enough. The problem was, I wasn't willing to be honest with them - to admit I just wasn't attracted to her body (anymore?) At that point, I wasn't even honest enough to admit to myself I had been fantasizing about guys. But, I will say, they KNEW I was holding something back and I starting really thinking and asking myself some questions.
To me, it sounds like one way or the other, you need to have some honest answers, or dialog at least. As "e" said, they don't need to come out of a "confrontation" (my wife used that word (above) but it was a heartfelt conversation rather than an angry "confrontational" conversation.)
The questions SEEM to be, progressively as necessary: Do you want to have sex with me more often? Do you know why not? Do you want to have sex with someone else? Who? Why? Do you fantasize about (whatever)? Do you masterbate? Who do you think of when you do?
Now don't rapid-fire these out, of course, but my point is, if one question leads to a dead end, there are others. You need to come to an understanding in a non-threating way and be willing to hear the truth and love him regardless and try to be understanding and accepting and compromising. It may take a lot of time to get all the answers, and some he may never be willing to fully answer. It probably isn't worth pushing too hard, and some of the answers may not be what you (or WE) expect at all and HE may simply not know himself.
Also, if you haven't already, it's very valid to say "I need more sex. It is important to me emotionally to feel you love me. It is important to my self-esteem to know I am desireable and beautiful. What can WE do to make me feel better?"
Finally, if you don't have a particular objection and if the physical pleasure is an important part of your need, you CAN do it yourself! My wife is getting quite good at this and it can also extend our lovemaking and be something I actively participate in. (Hey, we'll talk about ANYTHING here!) Anyway, it is a thought. There are online resources, books, and probably message boards on that subject if you want a "crash course."
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Guest
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On fire! |
Registered: March 2012
Messages: 2344
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This story is the embodiment of my worst nightmare. It is the reason why I am not married and probably never will be. Marriage carries the expectation that I will “perform” sexually. And this makes me feel extremely uncomfortable.
Let me be clear. I am not talking about sexual orientation here. It seems to me that “gay” or “straight” are simply labels which identify the gender-direction of sexual desire.
I am talking about being male and not wanting sex. For whatever reason. If there has to be a reason.
Many of my friends and relatives are puzzled by my single lifestyle. They cannot understand why I “haven’t found a nice girl yet”. They are kind enough to tell me that I am a man of integrity with many qualities: a “nice bloke” who is honest, kind and loyal. And well-educated with money and a good job. For myself, I feel that I have so much love to give to the right person. I would love to have someone special to share my life with, to have fun times together, to hug and hold hands.
But sadly it would seem that this is not enough. I am supposed to want to have sex with this person on a regular basis or potentially suffer the pain of rejection and separation. It is a prospect which terrifies me.
I do not know whether I am straight or gay. It is quite possible that anonymous’s husband genuinely doesn’t know either.
Life truly sucks if those with a low libido are rejected for something over which they have no control and consigned to a life without love.
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trevor
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Really getting into it |
Registered: November 2002
Messages: 732
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who would seem to be "sexually" compatible with you - they want love and tenderness and intimacy but not necessarily sex. You bring up a good point - it isn't necessarily all about the act of sex. This may be a gift - you may be a very good potential lover for someone who has been abused or is just plain asexual, with even more options if you are open to a mate of either gender.
At the proper time while dating, you should probably just be honest about your needs and abilities. I can think of other "minorities" that might be in a similar position of needing to discuss expectations or preferences.
There are so many ways to express love. I think "straight" and "gay" and "bi" can also mean who you find most beautiful and who you are most compassionate about. For example, I find it easier to overlook character flaws or bad behavior in men and boys than in women and girls. Could be just me, though.
Just another stripe in the rainbow, I think. Good luck - I'm sure there are lovers out there that meet your "preference".
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Guest
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On fire! |
Registered: March 2012
Messages: 2344
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Hi to everyone,
Just an interesting update...my husband told me he went to his urologist appointment a month ago (he just now told me all of this)...and his testosterone levels were checked and the doctor says he is normal.
Then, the "gay experience" he had before we met, came up. When I first began dating him, he told me that this "gay experience" was like an "admiration" for this other guy and he swore to me that NOTHING happened between this guy and him. Well...the other day, my husband admitted that he passionately kissed this other guy, and this other guy gave him a blow job. My husband told me that he didn't particularly like the razor stubble, he said it felt "unnatural". I don't know what to think about all of this, it seems strange. I personally, don't care for razor stubble either, but that dosen't mean I don't like men! Secondly, I thought it was sad that he finally admits this to me when he swore to me when we were dating that NOTHING happened between this him and this guy.
I guess I should be happy he did finally come out and tell me though. My husband still swears he is not gay, and that he "knows who he is". He also told me to go and ask my therapist how often people "experiment" with the same sex and how common it is. He has a point there.
However, I still find certain things a bit strange. For example, his very best friends are all gay, and the girl he dated before me, she came out of the closet right after she dated him. Oh well, I am going to therapy again today...perhaps I am just losing it, I don't know. But all of these scenarios just seem odd. It's like somewhere along the line, things just don't add up.
Oh, he also admitted to me that he takes full blame for only having sex with me 3 to 4 times a year. He says that when I ask for sex at night and he is too tired, but in the morning I am sleeping, so he has gone into the shower and masturbated instead. I don't understand why he couldn't just wake me up..I have a perfectly good, working vagina for crying out loud! Oh well.
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It's a serious topic and I don't want to make fun of it, but I am a fan of just sitting down and talking about stuff face to face rather than going the long way around with a therapist as a go-between.
Have you considered if your husband's maybe more of a morning person and might simply like it better during that part of the day? I'm sure there's nothing wrong with your... *cough*, well, you know... Just tell him it's okay to wake you up rather than taking things into his own hands, if that is how you feel.
Thanks for visiting us. A different perspective of things is always refreshing! I hope you will stay a while!
-L
"But he that hath the steerage of my course,
direct my sail."
-William Shakespeare, Romeo and Juliet, Act One, Scene IV
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Really, I mean that. Even tho I have been known to be too optimistic about couples.
But it seems to me that there is still hope for your marriage. Look at what's happening! You and he seem to be re-connecting. Or maybe connecting for the first time about these issues. You are telling each other things that you have both been avoiding for years. You are both taking risks with eah other, and that means you both might want to stay together and improve things.
Please don't punish him when he steps up to the plate and tells you more. You're asking him for more, and expected thathe wasn't telling you everything. So Thank him for being more clear, honest and direct.
And don't wait for him to decide about the morning wank. Get up and join him in the shower.
"Always forgive your enemies...nothing annoys them quite so much." Oscar Wilde
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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Not so fast about the morning wank every morning. Sometimes we need to do this just to relieve tension.
I suggest you say to him that you adore sex and him, and that you'd love to service his needs SOME mornings, and could you PLEASE book a lazy saturday when you will drive him wild with erotic excitement.
Don't ask what his fantasies are, and don't CARE whether he's thinking about guys, girls, sheep, or even ducks! Just seduce him.
Trust me, I had a very arousing emotional weekend with gay friends. No sex, just very lovely company. Put me right in the mood in the marital home. Nuff said?
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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Some of us have it sometimes, others never, and others semi-permanently.
A good partnership should be able to accommodate that unless the mismatch is HUGE. The challenge here is "Hi there, I don't shag much, do you?"
This is a valid use of dating agencies.
"Gentleman of low sex drive wishes to meet possible partner for genuinely gentle times, love, affection, but maybe even nothing physical"
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Is my husband gay? 
love ya timmy... 
Re: If it helps at all.... 
