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Ok, ya see. I was talking to smith last night and Setras and a few others from the baord and we were discussing his newest chapter in his story. smith was asking if we were surprised by it, and I asked why. One of them asnwered well becuase Easy was black. I said, soo what does that matter. Well it doesn't I just hadnt hinted at it before or anything like that. Well I was confuzzled cuz I couldn't udnerstand what diffrnet if he was balck white purple or muppet.
yet today I was thinkign about it and decided that in a way I was racist anyway becuaseIm scared of black people for no reason. (Which my friends find amusing to watch the few times i've been to NYC did i ever mention that place terrifies me?) So like I dunno I couldn't understand it, becuase I have no problems with people who are black ya know. Just for soem reason they scare me. Anyone with any insight let me know cuz im confuzzled.
peace and trees
~Andy
Why are you wearing that stupid man suit?
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theeggman
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Getting started |
Location: DE, USA
Registered: February 2002
Messages: 27
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Hey Andy? Any sort of unreasonable fear or prejudice was learned - it's not something that your stuck with. You've identified an issue that you're not satified with. Face the fear/prejudice in your mind. Pick an African American actor and picture yourself sitting with him/her, having a conversation that you start. Little by little you won't be so terrified. And it'll start becoming easier in real life.
Ya wanna how I know? Been there, done that, got the t-shirt, burned it!
~HUGZ~
Dave
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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I think the thing is not about the amount of melanin in the skin pigmentation, but the fact that some folk are different (wait before jumping on me) from us that causes the unease.
History is full of incidents where different people were to be feared:- old women living alone were feared and killed as witches
- all foreigners were to be feared
- people fo different religions were to be feared
- people like Galileo whose views differed from orthodox religion were to be feared
- Darwin was to be feared
- homosexual people are to be feared
I know it is 80% that. But the 20% is important too.
That 20% is the reputation in the news media that has stigmatised almost any minority unfairly. All minorities suffer it: jews, gays, gypsies, ab-original peoples, minority religions, the list is endless.
The people who create the propaganda are odd, often wimply afraid, but they try to cure their fear by disparaging the minority they are afraid of, and by trying to get others to join in their behaviour.
You have done something braver, far braver. You've stated the issue and asked "help me?"
With luck we will all go a little way to doing that.
You aren't racist. If you were you could not have made this post. In the same way, Just Hit Send could not have been written by a racist, though a certain amount iof racism is germane to the plot.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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smith
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On fire! |
Registered: January 1970
Messages: 1095
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In the story, Andy, I used it to show the bigotry Jordan's dad had been raised in and how automatic it was for him. How everything he believes needs to be reconsidered, on his own terms, and changed. How people believe something that their parents believe just because..............and that isn't good enough. I never alluded to it in the story because it wasn't important....not to them.....NEVER to me. At this moment, he has to see that being black, being gay, being crippled, being smart, being slow, being a woman.........none of these things have anything to do with who you are, what you are. I'm smith. I could be black. I could be crippled. I could be gay. Would you like me less because of it........Of course not. Jordan's father has to understand this before he can reclaim his son.
I hope that unconfuzzles you about the story.
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ien
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Toe is in the water |
Location: Netherlands
Registered: April 2002
Messages: 81
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A psychological test was done, a group of people where, one by one put in a room and hooked up to lots of equipment that showed all kinds of stuff like heart rate, breathing etc. Every now and then a nurse would walk in to check on the test person. What the test person didn't know was that the thing that was actually tested was their reaction to the person that walked in. The test showed that everybody (including African American males!!!) showed signs of being afraid if an African American male walked into the room.
It is my humble opinion that, the press, movies, TV shows etc have taught us to be afraid of black people especially of black men.
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Danke schon everyone who responded to me, I need to go out now but I am pondering what you guys said. I'll post when my ponderign ahs lead to an intelligent thought. *hugs* Hmm will smith is african american hes a cool actor I don't think hes scary... Which makes me wonder why seeing people on the street and at school I find scary. Must think more about it..
peace and trees
~ANDY
Why are you wearing that stupid man suit?
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Hi everybody!
I think another factor may be lack of personal knowledge and experience with black people. That's why Dave the Eggman's visualization exercise works well sometimes.
Andy, how many African American people do you actually know? I know New jersey has parts that are pretty evenly multi-racial, but other parts may have very few minorities living there.
When I was growing up, the first black person I ever met was in University. In fact I had met nobody other than Caucasians up until then, so I had no personal experience of Asians, African Americans, etc. I don't remember even having met any Europeans.
So some of your fear could come from lack of personal experience in knowing any...
"Always forgive your enemies...nothing annoys them quite so much." Oscar Wilde
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Nicely done, smith. I had to actually go back and re-read a few times to see how you did it, but you're right. No reference to Easy was made other than as a skater boi and to a vague reference to his hair. As readers we simply assumed that no stranger would cross the much refered to (at least in America) color line. Sad to say it still exists and is such a strong part of our upbringing, but for the purposes of your story (and a little education, we can all hope) it worked out beautifully.
Andy, don't be too afraid of other's being different. To blatantly market a group in one direction based on the actions of a few is almost as much a travesty of justice as to blame a few for the actions of one. Especially where the basis is something as broad as race. I understand your fear. It is something that I have seen often in others, and hope you can find a way to put it behind you. To that end, take this advice: Know them by their actions. If someone means you harm, they will inflict it (like that Kev kid. Stay away from him, he's headed into trouble!). If someone is putting up a front to appear tough, they will intimidate but probably wont do anything to get into trouble, it's all an act, after all.
Know them by their actions. Know them individually for what they say and do. Your fear may be a defense mechanism, for which you should respect it. Biology has equiped us with a set of acutely tuned senses that alert us to possible danger. Don't neglect that sense, but don't let it rule you either. Biology has also equiped us with a supposedly fairly sophisticated mind, so let's let the mental overpower the meat and ride through things with both wisdom and courage.
And by all means, remember this: you appear dangerous, different or just to unknowable to someone else out there. It's a two way street. Helping someone else overcome a prejudice or just to realize that they shouldn't judge your actions by that of the rest of the Pack is a good bit of Karma building.
Okay, next person for the soapbox, here it is.....slightly squashed......why don't they make tougher soapboxes these days?
Cya,
D'Artagnon
It's not the wolf you see you should fear, but all the ones he howls with. Don't be afraid of the song, but don't piss off the choir.
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I think you're right, Andy; there has to be something other than skin color to cause that sort of reaction (although that survey Ien mentioned does point out what a "conditioned response" such reactions are).
This all reminds me of a comment a friend of mine once made. We were talking about his then 8 year old daughter (who we had just brought home to Pennsylvania after visiting him for the weekend in Connecticut; he and his wife were divorced, and I went along for the ride to keep them company). At first he said (in jest), "She better not start dating until she's 35." Then, in all seriousness, he said, "She better not bring home a black boy." I said, "Lou, consider this. There's every chance in the world that she'll bring home a black boy who turns out to be the absolute salt of the earth; there's an equally good chance that she'll bring home an Italian boy (Lou was Italian) who turns out to be a total and complete son-of-a-bitch. Now, which would you prefer?" Lou had no answer for that. And in an ironic twist, Lou's ex-wife married a black man (who even Lou agreed is a heck of a nice fellow).
Just something to think about.
We do not remember days...we remember moments.
Cesare Pavese
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trevor
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Really getting into it |
Registered: November 2002
Messages: 732
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For me, I was never taught racism per se, in fact I have 2 black sisters. But I did realize a few years back that I was particularly uncomfortable around hispanic people. I realized that there have been few hispanics in my social circles throughout my life. Many in this area are in the service industries and not as well integrated into the middle-class suburbs as other minorities.
I think part of it was probably that many of the few I had met spoke Spanish and I'd seen only a few hispanic smiles.
Since, I've tried to make a point of trying to notice what I have in common with others and trying to be friendly and earn a smile. I've also spotted a few particularly handsome hispanic dudes as well.
It's sad that we fear the unknown, that we tend to "naturally" segregate ourselves in social settings and communities. I am seeing a lot less of this now compared with 20 years ago, though.
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ien
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Toe is in the water |
Location: Netherlands
Registered: April 2002
Messages: 81
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The first black people I ever met where the family of a man from Suriname (dunno what that country is called in English) His name was André and he lived with my family for about 6 months or so before his family could come over. They where the first black people to move into out very small village. One of the girls, Janice became a friend so I spent a lot of time there. That was mostly a pretty positive experience. Then years later I was 18 and I went on a holiday with my boyfriend to Spain, his parents stayed in a hotel about 10 miles away by train and we went to visit them for the day. On the way back home at the trains station there where 4 African men sitting on a bench and my bofriend looked at them. I think he might have looked scared of whatever because they where teasing him by winking and whisteling at him and making kissy faces. Hehe he did not like it but I thought it was funny. We got in the train and where on our way back to our hotel. On the trainstation at the place we stayed there was a bit of a strange situation. There where two tracks and we had to cross one to get to the outside of the station but there was a train there, so my bf hopped in the train walked through it and hopped out again. I hopped in and the door shut and the train left!!!!! So there I was, 18 scared as sh*t with no money and I only spoke English and no Spannish! I tried to find the conductor and explain what happended but I was in a total state of panic. I arrived back at the station we left about 20 minutes earlier but my inlaws where gone of course. The only ones still there where the African guys. One of them came over and pulled my into a semi hug trying to get me to stop crying, he kept repeating "don't cry sister, don't cry" Then he took me to the ticket place, bought my ticket, stayed with me till the right train arrived and waved me off. He didn't want any thanks, he was just happy to help. So yeah, I agree, I do think personal experience does color the way people think about things.
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smith
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On fire! |
Registered: January 1970
Messages: 1095
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Everyone seems to have odd feelings about other people, not just because of color but because of ethnic preconceptions.
I live in a highly populated Hispanic area of Florida where the oranges, cumcumbers, watermelons, tomatoes, etc...are grown. Some of the Hispanic families always live here; others come and go with the seasons. I've always known bunches of Hispanic kids. The girls are beautiful and the boys are reeeeeeeeallly cute. They are happy, outgoing and will share their last nickle and the guys can always kick your ass in soccer :)Several of the sk8rs are Hispanic. There is nothing more fun than going to a Hispanic home for dinner or a party. Many of their parents don't speak English which makes the kids feel different too. Some of the best students in my school came from Mexico with no English and pushed themselves to achieve. We all take Spanish so we can talk to their parents.
The odd thing is the reaction of parents to couples dating. There is supposed to be NO crossover between black/Hispanic/white. Without exception, ALL the parents freak if it happens....WHEN it happens. They truly want the cultures to remain pure. Maybe one day, this will all stop and people can love who they want without criticism. We can hope so 
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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I experienced two people. Both happened to be black. Both had an unpleasant influence on my life, and neither managed to make me prejudiced against an ethnically different group.
One broke my nose. He was a rotten little shit and treated specially because he was from Nigeria. He was the only black boy inthe school. I hated and feared him. He was a bully. It wasn't his skin colour that made him a total shit. It was his inner being.
The other was my teacher. She was ashamed of being black. She wore pancake white makeup and white gloves. She humiliated me in public every tie we had to sing, and she ruined my enjoyment of singing. I think her skin colour made her unpleasant inside because she cannot have loved herself.
Neither of these people succeeded in making me afraid of, or prejudiced against black people, though it was easily posisble that either could have done.
It is more likely to be a parentla prejudice that gets to the child than one created by the people concerned. These, to me, were just awful, horrible people.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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trevor
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Really getting into it |
Registered: November 2002
Messages: 732
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That's one thing I'm grateful for, mixed race/ethnic couples are vary common and no big deal here, at least in the Seattle, which is pretty progressive. I know you don't have to travel far for society's approval to be very different, however. But, you are right in that it is (limited) social acceptance, not necessarily the parents. A couple more generations may do the trick, though, in most of the world. I think becoming a global community is helping, too.
We got a LOT of looks and questions in the mid 70's when my family spent a year in rural Alabama amidst the sharecropper's homes with my white parents and brother and one black sister and one "grey" sister. It was just not done - white people living in that neighborhood or having colored children. But, it was fun to watch the expressions when you say, "No, she's my SISTER."
That year I was 11 and our school was all grades with about 1000 black kids and 4 white kids. That was sortof a "Subway experience" but not in a bad way. My classmates kept wanting to feel my long straight fine brown hair, which was fun for awhile. Motown music became popular, but I assumed it was a local phenomenom, only realizing years later it was national.
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Guest
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On fire! |
Registered: March 2012
Messages: 2344
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I live in Los Angeles and although we live in the 21st century there still is seperation between the races. Hispanics go to one school, whites to others, black to others. Everyone lives on there own area, one can tell. If if people say they are not prejudice you can still see the separetions. Well to solve that problom i attend a special school, actuually there several schools around the LA area in which their job is to mix kids from all the races. I really like that school. Why? because i have friends from all over the world. I love to learn from other cultures. I have freinds from Russia, UK, Mexico, South America, Africa, China, and other places in Asia. I really like all that diversity.
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Yeah my town is probably 80 percent white, 12 percent hispanic and 6 percent balck. If we have 6 percent I am not positive if we have that much. So I dont know I live in a small town and I have grown up playing with all white kids (with the exception of 2 chinese girls and a few mexicans. All in all well my town is still primarily 'rich' white kids. I am not one of the 'rich; ones we seriously have kids who live in small mansions. My friends also are not rich go figure right, they kinda segragated themsleves form the rest of us. Some of the guys are real asses about proving that they are richer then you are. Besides being afraid of balcks, I can't go near any of the rich kids, I just am not comfortable to do it. The hispanics intimadate me so badly. In my town too they all kick our butts in Soccer. Brendas family makes up 1/4 of our soccer team . Its dumb though becuase I know how nice these guys are and they still make me nervous. I guess its just somethign I need to try and over come
peace and trees
~AnDy
Why are you wearing that stupid man suit?
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M, I sooo wish that every kid had the opportunity to go to an ethnicly-diverse school like you do!! That would get rid of lots of the after-effects we've been writing about in this thread. I lived for a year while at University in an "International House", which was a small dorm of more than half International students and people like me who wanted a more diverse experience. It was terrific, and began me on my journey to live overseas myself.
Of course, I have been drawn to ethnically diverse people since forever. I don't plan to ever live with-in the boundaries of the USA ever again. Mostly because Man doesn't want to, but I had pretty much decided that before he came into my life.
I don't think I have ever been attracted to other Caucasians for relationships, either. Which is weird, since I never met anybody who wasn't white until I was like 19 or 20. But all the guys I am attracted to have been Latino, Asian, Black, or some exotic mix.
Have you ever noticed how physically beautiful people are who are mixed race, no matter what the races are?? I really hope that's the future of the human race.
"Always forgive your enemies...nothing annoys them quite so much." Oscar Wilde
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MMMM yeah it would solve a few problem. I actually have ntoiced that before. People who are mixed race can be very very pretty .
peace and trees
Why are you wearing that stupid man suit?
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e
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On fire! |
Location: currently So Cal
Registered: May 2002
Messages: 1179
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You are right about LA. It is a series of little pockets of people of the same race living together. Chinatown, Koreatown, Little Tokyo, Filipino town, etc. Part of my former job was going into these communities and interacting with families in thier homes. Mostly it was a very positive experience. I learned quite a bit about different cultures.
But it could also be very scary. Many of the buildings shown on TV burning down in South Central, Watts, and Long Beach during the riots were buildings I had been in. Some of the people who became homeless were people I used to know. Even before the riots, it was scary going into those neighborhoods. There were gang members hanging out on the street corners, drug deals going on in plain sight. Since I was White, I stuck out like a sore thumb. A White man in some of those places could only be a cop, a probation/parole officer, or a social worker. The Post Office wouldn't even deliver mail into many of the places I had to go into.
Funny thing was that each community made me feel differently. Though it was clear that I didn't belong, I felt there was less danger in some places than others. It largely depended on race and the way gang members reacted to White people. There were some definitie trends and it brought out old prejudices that I thought I had overcome from my childhood. One thing I learned quickly was that I sometimes had to work really hard not to allow prejudices formed from various stereotypes dictate my actions.
I'll never forget my first job interview in LA. I spent two hours taking three buses to get to a Youth Center in Watts. When I got off the bus there were several Black gang members on one corner, several Latino gang members on another. I was a White man wearing a business suit. Fortunately the Youth center was on the corner where I got off the bus. The Hispanic man who interviewed me told me that he would hire me IF I wanted the job. He also told me that I should go home and think about it as the opening wouldn't occur for another month. He said he was concerned for my safety travelling into that neighborhood everyday. He even refused to allow me to stand on the street corner and wait for the bus when I left. He had me wait inside until he saw the bus coming. I was young and naive and would have taken the job if I hadn't found one that started sooner.
I guess my point is that even if we think we aren't prejudice at all, we still have to be diligent in not allowing things we were taught in our childhood to dictate the way we interact with and what we think about people who may be different from ourselves. Sometimes we may have to fight through our fears in order to learn and experience the good things that can be found in other cultures.
Think good thoughts,
e
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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People of mixed race are "neither fish nor foul", and tend to be shunned by each race that makes them what they look like. Finding a partner as a mixed race perosn is substantially harder than for a pure bred person.
I have seen this happen, and I dislike it. I am not sure it is a universal fact. It is not an "Opinion I wish to be associated with"; it is an observation, simply. I put it here for the observation to be commented on, not, please, any moral issues about my stating it.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Please noone get mad at me but please respond im confuzzled 
You make an important point, and make it well 
Once upon a time.... 
Re: Please noone get mad at me but please respond im confuzzled 
