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I was born and raised Catholic I went to what is called CCD (whch teaches kids about catholisism) all through elementary school. I went to a Catholic high school and loved it. At some point in there though I began to question certain practices and beliefs that the church has. The biggest being if babies should be baptisd for the reason of origional sin. In college I have been exposed to many other religions which has caused me to question even farther. I have pretty much stopped going to church because I don't know what to believe anymore. I don't see how any one religion is right and I am not sure how to decide what is right for me. I recently attended a non catholic church and hated it because I had no clue what was going on. Does religion hold a key to a certain happiness? I don't feel any different now compared to when I did go to church because I didn't get anything out of it because I didn't want to be there.
Danielle
AKA Ducky 
"To the world you may be but one person, but to one person you may be the world!"
"Some people love you and some hate you.. those who hate don't know what they're missing and they're missing out!"
"Never underestimate your power to change yo
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On fire! |
Location: currently So Cal
Registered: May 2002
Messages: 1179
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Religion is deeply personal. I was raised to be a Southern Baptist. Throughout my childhood and up until the time I graduated from high school I was required (by my parents) to go to Church. I didn't really mind, but I never really saw the point either. I just couldn't believe in all the Hellfire and brimstone they were preaching. Somehow I figured that if God + Love there was no way He could even think of condemning any person to Hell. I questioned that from the time I was a small child. No one ever gave what I considered to be a reasonable answer. I stopped attending Church after graduation from high school when I obtained a job that required me to work on Sundays. But I never stopped studying religion or believing in God. Religion itself doesn't mean much to me at all, but my faith in God means quite a bit. It's just that my beliefs don't quite fit the dogma of any organized religion that I know of.
Think good thoughts,
e
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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Religion to me means the public expression, for other people to see, of an inner faith which may or may not be present.
Rituals and rhythmic chnating in a building controlled by a priest differs totally from faith and I reject religion utterly.
In England people were burnt at the stake for their religion. Not burnt for their faith.
Religion is an excuse for beating the crap out of theother guy becuase he does not belong.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Guest
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On fire! |
Registered: March 2012
Messages: 2344
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Aw come on guys,if there were no organized religion,just think how many unemployed priests there would bo on the dole
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smith
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On fire! |
Registered: January 1970
Messages: 1095
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You said something that is exactly right....."In college, you have been exposed to many other religions that caused you to question further."
So many of us were raised in a certain organized religion and we took it for the truth during our formative years. As we get older, we start to realize that people we love and respect don't believe the same way we do....who is right? who is wrong?
That's when we have to take a deep breath and come to grips with the fact that we are ALL right. Inside of us is our Faith, whatever it may be. To care, to guide, to love, to help ......this is God. To look around with open eyes and see all the beauty in nature, all the beauty in people and to want to add to this beauty with your own personal Faith.
Keep questioning, Danielle....I will too. It's the only way to figure this whole thing out. And you know what? I bet you would find the answers you need a lot faster at your Grandpa's Pond talking quietly to yourself than you will inside a building where someone is ranting about Hell. I think at the pond, someone just might answer you
Smiles & Sunshine
smith
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I personally do not subscribe to any particular religion at this time. I was raised and baptized Methodist, and have attended other denominations services including Catholic and Jewish. I believe in a Supreme Being, have read the Bible cover to cover, and consider myself a Christian. But I do not wish to identify with any particular denomination because I have found both good (or what I accept) and bad (what I do not accept) in all I have experienced. I hope that I take the good from all and accept that as my faith.
My wife and I discussed how to raise our children. We decided that we would not take them to any church until they decided they wanted to go. When they asked to attend, usually to accompany a friend, we did not stand in their way nor discourage them in any way. They have attended everything from tent revivals to cathedrals to synagogues. All three children have asked for, and received, Bibles of their own. When asked, both my wife and I have explained to them our own beliefs, but stressed to them that they had to make up their own minds what they wished to believe.
Your religious belief is a deeply personal matter which I think should not be dictated by others. Each should find their own path and that path can and should change growth and experience.
I apologize if I sound preachy as I have a habit of sounding pompous and dictatorial. It is a fault that I recognize and am working to overcome. Anything I post is personal belief and should be taken as such.
Hugs, Charlie
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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Not that I am any sort of expert in "holy texts", but did you consider books other than "The Bible"? And when considering that one, did you look at "The Apocrypha"?
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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I gottah agree with Timmy on this one. I was raised Catholic too, and while I attend, mostly for my parents' sanity at this point, and at one point I attended because I am a musician and my own expression of faith was strengthened through song. But it isn't the place that matters to God. It isn't the formulae or the language you use or even the words themselves. Religion is a system for a feeling, not a feeling itself.
Faith is inside of you, and whether that expresses itself as a love of God, Buddah, Allah or any other word we use to describe the devine and magical out there and in all of us, it comes down you and your beliefs. Or, to quote Dogma more, you and a good idea. And to be honest, I still find my religion in music, whether I'm playing it or just playing a CD. Faith is what moves you to move mountains.
Hope that bit of insight into the weird happenings of my skull helps you find your answers, Ducky.
It's not the wolf you see you should fear, but all the ones he howls with. Don't be afraid of the song, but don't piss off the choir.
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smith you are so right on...my grandpa's pond is my favorite place to "attend church" I like to go there and think about many things. I have been doing that for a few years now...the summer after my granmother passed away we had a memorial mass for her and many other family members...this basically showed me that you can go to church anywhere. The problem that I run into is I want someone to tell me the answers or show them to me...I am waiting for someone to slap me in the face when in fact what I hear is a quiet wisper. I know it is there I just am unable to make out what it is saying. What I do know is that I am most at peace when I am there by myself and able to think about whatever is on my mind!
Thanks smith,
HUGS
Danielle (Ducky)
"To the world you may be but one person, but to one person you may be the world!"
"Some people love you and some hate you.. those who hate don't know what they're missing and they're missing out!"
"Never underestimate your power to change yo
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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No Message Body
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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The first time I read the Bible cover to cover I was about fourteen (was that yesterday????). I have also read portions of the Torah and the Koran. I did try to find what book Buddhists base their religion on but have not been able to pin it down (a little help, David?). I read those books to learn about the fundamental bases for the world's major religions. Other books dealing with the various religions were not on my hit list unless someone gave me a copy. I am not aware of the significance of "The Apocrypha", sorry. I have also read Mao's Little Red Book and the Communist Manifesto. (Just threw the last two in since they somewhat fit the genre of life-guiding books). All of these I read while in my teens and early twenties.
Since that time I have read very little in the way of religious text. I formed my current outlook on religious devotion and worship during that period.
Hugs, Charlie
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Guest
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On fire! |
Registered: March 2012
Messages: 2344
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thank you timmy for this information. rob
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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It tells me that, if one has Christianity as a religious and indeed a faith basis for one;s life that one need not be "beaten up" by religious zealots for being different.
But the NEED to defend against them is one of the reasons I abhor religion
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Guest
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On fire! |
Registered: March 2012
Messages: 2344
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I have managed to download most of the apoco literature,makes for some interesting reading.The section on bible abuse really caught my attention.With all that said,my question to all the thinkers out there is why cannot we re-invent our own religion,short,sweet and simple?As always,in friendship and deepest respect-rob
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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No Message Body
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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Guest
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On fire! |
Registered: March 2012
Messages: 2344
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short cryptic answers do not help us here marc,in fact they hurt and seem unfriendly.I am honestly trying to be a friend to you,but you make that darn hard
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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I think we do it daily.
Ignoring a particular deity, we have love and friendship ad forgoveness in most places in our lives.
The need for a new deity based religion is long gone. A deity is required when one does not understand the natural phenomena that make our world up.
This post does not show disrespect to those whose faith is sure in their particular deity. or is not intended to.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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On fire! |
Registered: March 2012
Messages: 2344
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I wrote a response to this that was almost as long as the bible. I figured I should shorten it up a bit. So, what does religion mean to me. Thats simple, it means nothing.
I don't believe in God, I don't believe in heaven or hell. I don't believe.
But what if i am wrong, what if there is a God, Jesus, heaven, hell. Doesn't that mean i will go to hell. I don't think so. I have and still do live my life the best way I know how. I try to help others when eve i can. I try to never hurt a living animal (his includes humans too) I will give the shirt off my back to someone that needs it. I don't do this because it is expected of me. I don't do it because i want to be rewarded in any way (including going to heaven) I do it because it is what i believe is right. It is my nature. If there is a God, he gave us Freedom to think, to believe what we want. I don't believe that God would send me to hell just for the simple fact that i do not believe in him.
I believe I am a good person. I have hurt others and am very sorry for that. I try not to repeat those mystakes but i am only human . So if your God sends me to hell simply because I do not believe in him then I want no part of him and will be better off in hell.
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Guest
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On fire! |
Registered: March 2012
Messages: 2344
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no one is suggesting that we replace GOD,I was talking about replacing the priests and other mechanisms that proport to speak FOR GOD rob
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Guest
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On fire! |
Registered: March 2012
Messages: 2344
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very sad post indeed,meaning no disrespect.I ask just a couple of simple questions.--Who are you accountable to?Or better still,who do you answer to?Of course your going to say thats none of your business.However,consider what defines a persons charactor.The physical and social answers do not really count.These are conditioned reflexes that come from the mind.But what really defines a person and sets his or her star shining.These are spiritual values that are not connected with religion at all.The non believer is but a empty shell easily destroyed by a gentle wind.I wish you well in your journey. rob
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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No certainty of salvation.
I think we need to respect all sides.
The word God may describe a being, or may describe a simple feeling. One day we will either find out. Or not.
Until then let is each respect a fiath or lack of it in another, for faith cannot be instructed, only found. And whe it is found it happens unexpectedly
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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theeggman
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Getting started |
Location: DE, USA
Registered: February 2002
Messages: 27
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Religion is one of many subplots that I explore in one of my own stories. Like you I attended Catholic grade school. In third grade my family moved and switched me to public school. I started exploring religions and philosophies while in military service. A gay man in the military? Well I wasn't sure if I was gay then! I'd been taught that being gay was bad. But the gay relationships I'd had weren't bad at all, even with my own screwed up perception of things. So, since sex with women was also possible, I must be bi, right? But sex with men is WAY more fun! On and on into a vicious circle....
But I have a spiritual side to my life and do believe in a supreme being of some sort. I combined all of what I learned. I don't attend Sunday services, nor do I even step foot into any church, temple or synagogue. Organized religions are in it for the money and power, IMHO. Even the bible says, "Where two or three are gathered in my name, there I am also." or something like that.... where is that bible? the dog's using it as a pillow at the moment... ANYWAY! This discussion here or any other discussion on theologies and philosophies accomplishes more than any Sunday sermon ever could. But that's just my way of looking at things.
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theeggman
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Getting started |
Location: DE, USA
Registered: February 2002
Messages: 27
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"Faith is inside of you, and whether that expresses itself as a love of God, Buddah, Allah or any other word we use to describe the devine and magical out there and in all of us, it comes down you and your beliefs."
OMIGOD! Have we crossed paths in a previous life? I've never seen that on a message board before! It's the "and in all of us," part that gets me. Imagine if more people believed in the good inside themselves more often. What would the world be like? Something worth while to strive for, anyway.
Thanks!
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Guest
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On fire! |
Registered: March 2012
Messages: 2344
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who am i accountable too? My family, My friends, My self. The people i meet. the humane race. Who do i answer too? the same answer as the first question. We are accountable to each other. We answer to each other. We live to make the world better for those that come after us.
Isn't that what God wants. For us to be accountable for ourselves?
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I believe in God now. Check with me in two weeks and I wont. For the last 2 years I have gone from being mad at god to beign all godly every probably 3 -4 weeks. Religion has fucked with my mind soo badly since I was in like 6th grade. Stupid me, I always try to think then get deppressed when i realize god doens't love me. Then i realized that religion is for the weak minded, then i decided I must be weak minded becuase I need religion. Then i said fuck it I believe. 3 weeks later I was declaring there was no way I could possibly believe that b-l sh-t. The day of my confirmation (last may) I was sitting there waiting to be called up still debating whether or not I believed in anything. Our old Priest loved me. I was always so confused, I just knew extrodinary amounts of the bible and questioned everything. (My mom is in the choir I am in the bell choir i never get a sunday off). So, basically right now I believe that god is awesome... I have a friend who is very religious I was talking to her at dance class and got very un comfrtable becuase of soem stuff she said, realziing that is what my religion is all about. I can say I refuse to be a mindless believer so in a way religion and I are good for each toher. The End
peace and trees
~NaYd
Why are you wearing that stupid man suit?
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To me, like to Derek, religion doesn't mean very much. I was raised a Christian, which really only means that I was baptised as a kid and I had religion in school, since my parents aren't religious. And religion in school was a lot more diverse subject than one might imagine. We actually covered most world religions over the years.
Then, about faith. I don't believe in God. Why? Simple really. An all-mighty, all-knowing being that loves us unconditionally and then condems us to eternal suffering if we don't do things right? Not my cup of coffee, I think. And just look at the world. If there really is an all-mighty being who loves us, what's with all the suffering? Kids starving to death. Kids living on their own as best as they can. Kids being abused, in whatever manner. I have trouble believing that they had it coming... Because that's what it boils down to, I think. I'm not saying God should make life perfect, I realise that's something we need to work to achieve. But I'm saying, the innocent shouldn't suffer because of the actions of others. And if it's all just a grand plan to make earth a paradise, then the end doesn't justify the means...
Well, that's my few cents worth...
Setras
PS: None of this is meant personally to any one, or to hurt anyone. It's how I feel, nothing more, nothing less.
That which is dreamed can never be lost, can never be undreamed.
-Master Li in Neil Gaiman's Sandman
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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It was neither short nor cryptic..
It was complete..
Therefore not requiring elaboration....
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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trevor
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Really getting into it |
Registered: November 2002
Messages: 732
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Yeah, me too, Andy. For you, personally, can you separate the concept of God and your faith in him from your religion and some of the theology you've been taught - those things that you find irrational or contradictory or un-God-like? I've heard it said that religion is one of the worst things that ever happened to God.
I must be very lucky in that a protestant Christian church has been part of most of my life, yet I don't ever recall hearing ing any damnation of any particular acts or really any talk of hell at all. Only of salvation and forgiveness and fairly generic sins. One thing that sticks in my mind is one preacher who seemed focused on what Jesus condemned or valued, since he is supposedly our latest example of how to live (yes, I know some religions will take exception to that) and also how many times a "sinful theme" is repeated in different passages of the bible. So, mostly, that works for me.
I think God gives us free will and allows us to screw up all we want, including each others' lives for the most part. I believe he listens to prayer and answers it in his way which is not always our individual preferences, but with consideration to our pleas. I like the father/children analogy because we don't always know what's best for us or the rest of the world or what the ramifications of fulfilling our wishes might be. I think (hope?) that Heaven is where he shows us his love and protects us, not on earth. But, I don't have a lot of faith and have a tough time believing in heaven sometimes and even tougher time beleiving in hell.
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They don't have one, per se. They have several. There are loads of books "about" Buddhist plilosophy and teaching. One of their major beliefs is that the answers all lie within oneself, so having some external "supreme authority" like a Bible or a Savior isn't what Buddhists are about. Buddha is said to have repeatedly reminded people to do things their own way, and not simply try to emulate/duplicate what he did. A powerful Buddhist saying is, "If You Meet the Buddha On The Road, Kill Him." Meaning don't depend on some authority outside yourself for the answers. There is a very good book with that saying as the title, written by a psychotherapist who was dieing as he wrote the book, so it's a very interesting read.
Books about Buddhism are generally very hard reading. But if you insist, there is a Penguin Classic paperback called "Buddhist Scriptures" which isn't bad. Try anything by the Dalai Lama, as he has written a lot, specifically trying to make it understandable to westerners. A good one of his to start with is, "The Power of Buddhism". My favorite of the Dalai Lama was written with help from an American psychiatrist called Howard Cutler, the the name of the book is "The Art of Happiness".
There's also another slim volume by Gerald Roscoe called, "The Good Life: A Guide to Buddhism for the Westerner".
A very good book that I'm reading now is called, "Queer Dhamma", which is an examination of Buddhism from a gay-friendly perspective. The editor of that is Winston Leyland.
And I'm sure that's more than enough about that to last for months of light reading, hehehe.
Since I have never found one religious system that makes complete sense to me, I tend to pick and choose different beliefs from different places, and synthesise them for myself. I recently read something called "The Jew in the Lotus" comparing and contrasting Judiasm and Buddhism. Liked it.
But I tend to like odd things that make other people upset. Last year I read something called "The Tomb of God" which is supposedly research "proving" that Jesus didn't die on the cross, there was a big cover-up and he moved to Gaul (now France) and had a family that became the french Royal Family...and that the Masons started out as guardians of this "secret knowledge." I neither believe nor disbelieve, it's all just cool to think about.
Aren't people interesting??
Gotta love it!
"Always forgive your enemies...nothing annoys them quite so much." Oscar Wilde
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smith
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On fire! |
Registered: January 1970
Messages: 1095
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There are alot of days, the really bad ones, where I go with the old joke that this IS hell and I'm paying for my past sins now........especially when I can't for the life of me figure out what anyone wants or means.
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smith
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On fire! |
Registered: January 1970
Messages: 1095
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"This discussion here or any other discussion on theologies and philosophies accomplishes more than any Sunday sermon ever could"
Discussing makes us think.......gives us the opportunity to speak up and question. Extremely more so than sitting half comatose on a hard bench being 'told' what to think.
smith
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Guess I will have to lay the counseling books aside for a while to get through all you two have given me. Gee, 52 years old and still trying to learn new points of view.
Hugs, Charlie
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That's pretty close to the Buddhist belief. This world's pain and suffering are where we learn and work thru "karma", the issues and problems we bring from past lives and this current one as well.
That's hell enough...and "Enlightenment", once achieved, allows us to move on to a high plain of existence (sort of like heaven, in some ways), and frees us from the cycle of re-birth.
The Buddhists don't have a God as such...anybody can achieve Enlightenment and become like the Buddha.
And once Enlightenment is achieved, any enlightened one may choose to be re-born voluntarily so as to teach and be an example of hope. These are called "Bodisatvas". Buddha was one, Jesus and Mohammad and Moses were others. It's a pretty inclusive philosophy, in many ways.
"Always forgive your enemies...nothing annoys them quite so much." Oscar Wilde
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smith,
You are so right...I just wish my mom would see things that way. I am 21 years old and I am living at home (again...at least for the summer) my mom always seems to give me a guilt trip for not going.
I would like to thank everyone who has posted to this message...I have heard of religions and sacred texts that I never heard of before. I have never read the bible before either...it doesn't intrest me not because of what it is saying but more how it says it. If you give me a children's bible I might read it but don't quote me on that. (Come to think of it I like most children's books over any other books...I guess I picked a good career). I am glad to know that I am not the only one who does not seem to identify with one particular religion.
Thanks guys
Danielle (Ducky)
"To the world you may be but one person, but to one person you may be the world!"
"Some people love you and some hate you.. those who hate don't know what they're missing and they're missing out!"
"Never underestimate your power to change yo
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A little belatedly I would like to add my 2 bits. I was like others brought up as a Christian. That means I was baptised and sent to schools where Christianity was taught. Like others I looked around and tried aspects of the "Christian" church e.g. Methodists and Plymouth Brethren but found them all unfulfilling. I have not tried any other religions although have read about some and find that they all have similar tenets. "Love the Lord your God with all your heart and your neighbour as yourself". The second tenet I try to follow. Regarding the first, as a scientist and looking at the structure of a butterfly or a leaf or ourselves or the sky on a dark night I can’t believe that this is all by chance. I therefore have to come to the conclusion that there is some guiding force, call it what you will, that "directs" all this. If this is God then I believe in God. If life was introduced on to this planet (and possibly many others) and evolved to produce the human race and man given the power of communication through speech and the sense of right and wrong then if we f… it up then that is our fault, isn’t it ?
Friendship is the inexpressible comfort of feeling safe with a person, having neither to weigh thoughts or measure words
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With all that has been said I now wonder about what everyone thinks of reincarnation? Do you think it is possible to have lived before and then be brought be back to earth again? If so where did the phrase "you only live once" come from?
Danielle
"To the world you may be but one person, but to one person you may be the world!"
"Some people love you and some hate you.. those who hate don't know what they're missing and they're missing out!"
"Never underestimate your power to change yo
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e
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On fire! |
Location: currently So Cal
Registered: May 2002
Messages: 1179
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Damning people to Hell was the biggest problem I had with believing in God when I was younger. I do believe in a God now, but I refuse to believe in Satan or Hell. I try not to believe in specifics about God or to define Him in some way. Yet it is impossible not to. Therefore I have come to believe in several Gods, only one of which really exists. It doesn't matter which one.
For instance, God could be all-powerful and all-knowing. He may have created mankind and love unconditionally. He may not have to allow the pain and suffering in the world, but does. It could be for many reasons. The reason doesn't matter because that is the way it is and there's nothing I can do about it.
God could also be the universe. He was/is the "Big Bang." The thing from which all other things were created. In which case he is most likely not all-knowing or all-powerful. He simply is. There may be an order to Him, there may not.
One of my other beliefs is that I am God. I have created the world in which I exist. If I can truly believe and have faith, I can change the world into anything I choose. Depending on what I believe, I can live in Heaven or Hell or something in between. This is the God that I really want to believe in. It is also the one I have the most difficulty believing in. Of course if I really am God, the fact that I can't truly believe in myself is the reason the world is so fucked up. Sorry guys.
It doesn't really matter to me which of these Gods exist, or even if none of them do. The world is as it is and unless the last one is true, there's really little I can do about it except live in it the best way I can. I figure that if I live as though there is a God, and there is not, then I have done no harm. And if there is, then I will have served Him (or perhaps Her).
Think good thoughts,
e
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theeggman
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Getting started |
Location: DE, USA
Registered: February 2002
Messages: 27
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What's really screwed up is that even the people that profess no particular belief system ALSO have their own church - Unified Universalism, or something like that. I met up with some around here in Cali before Stephen moved in. During the drive to and from an A's baseball game, seven men and one woman in a van were talking about all the world's religions, searching for the common threads between them. No sermon. No alter. No little basket to drop money into. It was a good day.
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