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Guest
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On fire! |
Registered: March 2012
Messages: 2344
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First off I think its important to accept Timmys final authority on this message board.It is HIS creation after all-his house so to speak.As I see it and I can be wrong on this,but it seems that (poorly thought out topic headers) and the originators verbage start the confusion process where egos are stepped on.The original topic concerning stereotypes is a good example.The topic was excellent,but the opinions of the originator were ambiguious at best and left room for others to take offense(please reread the original topic).THIS DOES NOT EXCUSE MY RESPONSE!Here I must make a confession to this board.I am not real sure of my reasons,but I dont really like bullies and pompus persons--Perhaps I am one of these.I do not want this.This is not me.What IS me is that I seem to have rather a warped sense of humor and justice.I will abjure-I surrender!Throughout my life I have placed importance on principles over personalities.Strength of character was my salvation.Bottom line is that this message board is an important resource founded on friendship and tolorance.HOWEVER THERE SEEMS TO BE A PECKING ORDER HERE.SOME MEMBERS ARE LONG TERM AND SEEM POSSESSIVE OF THEIR TURF..When ol robert comes along on his white charger and begins to tilt at their windmills,stuff hits the fan and robert gets the blame.No mention is made that some are worthy of getting shot down.In conclusion,YOU HAVE MY SILENCE.....rob
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13800
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simple message. Same message to every last person here. Play nice. play polite.
I truly have had enough of spite in all its forms, of abuse in all its forms, of misunderstandings that are nto reoslved and apologised for, of "militant" misunderstandings, of petty jealousies. Of the lot.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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saben
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On fire! |
Registered: May 2003
Messages: 1537
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Even if you don't like me Rob, this is meant to be a place of safety, not a place of abuse. I try to never direct insult people, I instead attack their ideas that I may not like. Also, if a post is ambiguous then ask for clarification instead of seeing it in a negative light automatically. Personally I see no problem with discussion, or even a problem with argument and debate- PROVIDED THING DON'T TURN PERSONAL. Sometimes people may take things personally, even if they aren't intended that way, hopefully instead of taking offense publically, though, people will be able to learn to resolve things in private. If I make a post that you take offense to, or thought was attacking you, then email me, I've got it publically listed. We can sort things out privately instead of throwing verbal abuse at each other publically. If you try to address an issue privately and there is no resolution, perhaps then a senior member of the board (such as timmy or someone else respected) should be contacted, then as a final step the troublesome member can be removed as seen fit, or dealt with publically according to the discretion of the senior board member.
Look at this tree. I cannot make it blossom when it suits me nor make it bear fruit before its time [...] No matter what you do, that seed will grow to be a peach tree. You may wish for an apple or an orange, but you will get a peach.
Master Oogway
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Guest
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On fire! |
Registered: March 2012
Messages: 2344
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please do not attack ideas as they are the lifeblood that fosters fellowship.the free exchange of ideas should be what drives this discussion board.however,ideas should be well thought out and be clearly written.A well thought out and well worded idea or thought can never be shot down....btw I do not dislike you...that is not my nature.perhaps we can be friends....rob
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13800
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Attack always leads to retaliation. Even passive retaliation is retaliation.
Debate is the wrong word, too.
We should dicuss, always.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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saben
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On fire! |
Registered: May 2003
Messages: 1537
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Through critical analyse we pull ideas apart and then rebuild them. This is what learning is about. We must learn to knock down the parts of ideas that don't work in order to change them.
I think civilised debate and argument are fine as long as people know the limits. There may be a change in opinion in which case there is a winner or loser, usually there won't be though, so people need to learn when to drop it and accept a truce. As long as things don't turn personal, I see nothing wrong with attacking ideas, trying to find weaknesses in them, etc. However, if you don't want that timmy, I understand and respect that. Perhaps as my cashflow begins to increase I will think about creating another venue that can be used for more "heated" discussion.
Look at this tree. I cannot make it blossom when it suits me nor make it bear fruit before its time [...] No matter what you do, that seed will grow to be a peach tree. You may wish for an apple or an orange, but you will get a peach.
Master Oogway
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13800
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Nonetheless I wish to avoid verbs like "attack". This is not a place where I expect anything to be left bloodied.
It was not many years ago that children's broken bones were set without anaeshetic on the basis that children are smaller so do not feel pain as much as adults. While an idea is inanimate the person who puts it forward is not.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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Is that only discussons which colatterally follow the thoughts and inclinations of the origional poster may be responded to?
In any area of conversation if there are opposing idiologies bantering back and forth, it is a debate.
So I am curious? Just what are the paramaters here?
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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Guest
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On fire! |
Registered: March 2012
Messages: 2344
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When someone creates ideas,they become a part of that person and are important to that person.Attack the idea,and you attack the person.IE ideas have feelings.Obviously Saben you have many lessons to learn.Sensitivity to human needs seems your weak point.Perhaps an inflated ego is one of your strong points.I just wish that friendship were one of your stronger points..rob
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smith
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On fire! |
Registered: January 1970
Messages: 1095
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Marc~
If I started a thread entitled "Today will be a bad day" and went on to tell you that I will be in church this morning listening to a sermon on the horror of sodomy and the Supreme Court decision vs. the bible; that I have to sit there with no reaction because I live in a rural area of the US where gay people do not exist; that for my safety and my parent's peace of mind, I make it through these days quietly and outwardly calm.....I am asking for support.......not for anyone to preach even more at me with words like:
@refuse to go
@tell your parents
@move away
@you're a wuss
It's all well and good, from other people's viewpoints, to tell someone what to do but that isn't the reason I would post something like that. I would just be wanting support and understanding.
If someone starts a thread like "How much public nudity should be allowed?" then everyone's opinions would be welcome, from very str8 laced to let it all hang out. There are personal topics and there are discussion topics...
I guess what I'm trying to say is to take a minute, think about who is asking, what they're asking for......before you reply. Put yourself in their place if you can and realize that people's feelings and hearts are open when they post and for a lot of us, this is the only place we can even ask what we want and the only place we can be who we are.
Did that make sense?
smith
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Nor is the person affected by that idea (be it for good or for ill).
We do not remember days...we remember moments.
Cesare Pavese
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It makes perfect sense.
Another sentence that appears at the top of this message board (which, in spite of the larger bold-face font can be easily overlooked) says (and I quote):
Any advice should be from the perspective of the person asking, not the person giving!
We do not remember days...we remember moments.
Cesare Pavese
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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It is very hard to evaluate a responce when I dont know the person or people I am responding to....
Now I know what you are going to say,,,,,, I should know everything about everyone here because of all the postings you all make....
Well, sorry but that is not the case,,,,,, I know very few of you enough to respond on a personally knowledgable level. So how am I to know "what they're asking for"?
I very rarely talk with anyone...... I mean anyone, real world and here as well...... I see alot of you on AIM and YAHOO but I can not just barge into a conversation... I am not made that way... Innitiating a conversation is a thing I can NOT do... Talking on the phone is near impossible...
The thing is, I don't try and carry things to an Nth degree on purpose with an intent to cause distress.
But sometimes things have a way of escalating with me. I don't even know it is happening sometimes (until it is too late).
A long time ago, I committed myself to a stance on a particular issue. I fought back the best way I knew how. It was by never ever telling them what they wanted to hear. I would have rather died than give in to what they wanted me to say and do.
All my life I have tried hard to limit personal contact. I never had any friends in school and when in college my contacts were limited to a very small circle. I went into teaching as a way of keeping myself sequestered so to speak. A university is a good place to walk among thousands of people and be alone.
I am not saying I've made the best choices but I did what I had to to survive. I first met Tim a long time ago, when I was about at my lowest in a very long time. We grew to become friends, (I hope we still are) we've had some good times and some pretty nutty times too. Tim was the first and only person that I talked to about some bad things.... He knows what I mean...
I don't know why but I am crying right now....
i better go
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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But it is hard if you don't know the person.....
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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warren c. e. austin
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Likes it here |
Location: Toronto, Ontario, CANADA
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 247
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... for having just illustrated that you too, after all, are as worthy a Member of the Human Race, as I, or any other tortured soul who may have sought sanctuary here at A Place of Safety.
You never need feel ashamed to express your distress, or your need period; not ever again; certainly not ever to me; nor, to my "friend". You are one of the very few here who knows who he is. You have his Telephone Number; just as you have mine. You have only to reach out to either, or both, of us. Neither he, or I, would ever turn you away. Ever.
Warren C. E. Austin
Toronto, Canada
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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I know........
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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Guest
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On fire! |
Registered: March 2012
Messages: 2344
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Perhaps what may be considered is a concept that CHRIST taught--LOVE THY NEIGHBOR AS YOU WOULD YOURSELF.I dont think it necessary to (know) those here.The important thing is that we gather to share ideas and fellowship.Please consider the wonderful gift that has been sent to us--this forum..A place where long-distance neighbors can connect,share ideas and offer strength to each other--WITHOUT CONDITION..rob
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13800
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As I have said so often, a debate has a winner and a loser. A discussion allows people to see and accept ideas which were not their own without a winner or a loser.
It is a matter of style and form, and wording.
Debate: "I'm right, you're wrong"
Discussion: "This is my point of view, I put the following points in favour. I do not insist thatI am right, though obviously feel that I am. I am not offended if you do not accept my views"
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13800
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Off topic, to startwith. I am not discarding or turning you aside. I am concerned for you at the moment. "For", not "about".
Now, lack of knowledge.
I think the first place is to start to ask. I am not going to put forward the view that we know a person because of his posts. Instead I am putting forward the concept of empathy and understanding. To be able to advise a person at all one must learn how his shoes fit. This does not mean we should always say what they want to hear, but it means we should say it in the way they need to hear it spoken.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13800
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I need you to listen and understand this message.
You are loved.
You are welcome here
Your bravery in overcoming the huge obstacles in your life is to be admired
The more you reveal of the man within the easier those who do not know you find it to love you
Marc I have written this to you, personally, in public, that you may see it and start to understand. I coudl have written it to any of us. I chose it for you. Yet it is for all who rread it as well.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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smith
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On fire! |
Registered: January 1970
Messages: 1095
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Terrible things happen...we blame ourselves...no matter what happened, somehow it was our fault. We go through some or all of the Five Stages of Mourning...not for the death of someone but for the death of innocence and happiness. This might have happened when you were 9 or 16 or 25 or 50......no matter, the feelings are the same. The act was emotional or physical rape no matter the actual act. Rape of the body, rape of the spirit, the damage is still done.
1.Denial ~ That did not happen
2.Anger ~ The reality and pain set in
3.Bargaining ~ If I had just......
4.Depression ~ That black place where sadness lives
5.Acceptance ~ That happened; life goes on; learn from it
Some people never get past denial or anger. Most move back and forth between the bargaining and the depression. I totally skipped the denial and went straight to bargaining. Drugs can help the depression but who wants to live their life on drugs and miss the tiny fragments of joy? Acceptance is where you are willing to ask for help and where you begin to help others.
Alot of the fluff and silliness in the world is simply people who have been hurt accepting the pain and trying to move on.
Debate ~ I'm right/You're wrong
Discussion ~ This is my point of view. I feel I'm right but I'm not offended if you don't accept that
Changing Gears ~ I've always thought this but what you say makes sense...perhaps I need to rethink
No matter how old we are, no matter how knowledgable we are, no matter how long we have held our beliefs....we can always change gears. Stop grinding through the gears and go from 1st to 5th so that life doesn't pass you by and people can love you. They will, you know.....if you let them.
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saben
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On fire! |
Registered: May 2003
Messages: 1537
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I think even if you get to the Acceptance stage, you're going to jump back and forth between the various stages. I know for me that's the case, quite often I'll be in a good mood and be able to accept my life situation, then, for no reason, without any specific trigger I can fall back to depression (usually) though sometimes the other stages, also.
As for the definitions of "debate", I don't really agree. I think that "discussion" and "debate" are essentially the same thing, except that "debate" involves rebuttal. With discussion you only present your own ideas. With debate, you take the ideas the other person has presented and you say why you don't or don't agree with certain aspects of them.
There can be the "I'm right/ you're wrong" arrogance in any form of communication, whether it be discussion, debate or an argument.
Debate is the stage you must go through in order to change gears, in my opinion. If you only present your own case and then ignore the response given in opposition, then you cannot learn either way. Debate in my mind allows you to first challenge the ideas you don't agree with, and then allows you as a result to come to some kind of compromise between your previous ideas and the new ideas that you have scrutinized.
We're getting into semantics here, I think we pretty much have the same ideas, but just a different way of saying it. "Debate" is not an aggressive or a dirty word, though.
Look at this tree. I cannot make it blossom when it suits me nor make it bear fruit before its time [...] No matter what you do, that seed will grow to be a peach tree. You may wish for an apple or an orange, but you will get a peach.
Master Oogway
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13800
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The thing is, for the purposes of this board, I think I probably have the right to make the fine distinction between debate and discussion.
A debate is a setting where there is a winner and a loser. While one can appear to have lost a discussion it is a less personal issue than losing a debate. A debate is often an artificial setting, like a debating room, too, to make it the more obvvious that one party wins and the other loses.
I want people to feel safe at putting things forward. Safe that no-one will shoot them down, safe to get it "wrong". I dont; weant anyone who comes here to be told, (for example) "You are married. You can't be gay, you dont; belong here" like I was elsewhere once. Instead I'd like him to be asked "How does being gay and being married work?", and I'd like a learning occasion made of the point, not a debate.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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smith
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On fire! |
Registered: January 1970
Messages: 1095
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Debate is a really clear, concise way to present your ideas. Lord knows, I had to do it in Speech class. They would give me a topic I totally disbelieved in and I would have to defend it. Your grade depended on whether or not you could represent your topic in a totally unbiased format.
Yes, in debate, you present ideas that might possibly cause someone to rethink, to reevaluate. That's a very good thing. I think the problem so many of us have with that format on the MB is that the debate always turns into a shouting match with people defending "to the death" whatever belief they hold. I personally do not like to be called a twat for what I think.
What we have to keep in mind is that as much as we believe something, others may find it gross and repugnant or stupid and ignorant. If say, you and I want to debate a topic and it stays within the bounds of good taste and intelligent thought, then have at it but, if it turns into something else, with name calling and ugly remarks, then someone lurking, who has been trying to make some sense of this same topic, may give up on us.
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saben
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On fire! |
Registered: May 2003
Messages: 1537
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Debate does have the potential to turn nasty, but still it is a matter of how the parties react to another.
As Timmy said, empathy needs to be shown to the needs of the person creating the initial topic. I think that most of us here had some kind of problem that got us to post to start with. We established members that have become more comfortable with ourselves probably think of other in depth topics that can turn to debate.
I also think tha nature of this place (lacking strict moderation) allows for things to get out of control. This is not a criticism, but the more freedom you give people the more likely they are to take advantage of it (as unfortunate a reality as this is). Enforcing stricter rules would potentially make some members too afraid to post for fear of stepping on toes, this is obviously a situation we do not want.
As I mentioned in another topic, I think potentially a good solution would be to have another set of boards created, I'd be quite willing to manage them. They could be an affiliate set of message boards used for more in depth and controversial topics and serious debate and discussion in a strict environment. If a topic began to get too heated here a simple request for the participants to take things to the alternate board would suffice, hopefully. By the same token if someone where to post something "fluffy" then they could be referred to this place instead. If there is enough interest I will look into temporarily investing in an EZboard and then maybe at a later date buying my own domain and setting up a board there for use. I'm babbling now though, it's late.. 
Look at this tree. I cannot make it blossom when it suits me nor make it bear fruit before its time [...] No matter what you do, that seed will grow to be a peach tree. You may wish for an apple or an orange, but you will get a peach.
Master Oogway
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13800
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Regrettably it led to fights, bad feeling, cliques and much else besides. That board is still there. It did not serve its purpose.
I can tell you that I will not associate my site with any such initiative. It will not be publicised here, and any links to it will be deleted.
As to lack of moderation, there is currently very heavyweight moderation to restore order. However I believe in treating people like adulst in roder that they choose to behave like adults. At some (unspecified) point my hand will leave the tiller. Autopilot will take over again until the next hurricane.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Guest
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On fire! |
Registered: March 2012
Messages: 2344
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I would hope that the concepts of friendship and fellowship be a part of your new forum.I wish you Godspeed and a safe departure Saben....rob
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13800
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I have never shied away, here, from complex topics. I have raised a good many in my time. I feel an upwelling of resentment that there is an implication that deep things cannot now be discussed here.
That implication has arisen because of my absolute distaste for winners and losers. And it is a false implication. The two are not related, and the alleged logic which is used to related them is flawed.
You may discuss a complex, controversial topic here for ever. What you may not do is to beat someone else over the head with your opinions, valid or invalid. Such a beating creates a winner and a loser. I do not wish losers and winners to be here.
I am not keen at all on the idea of a stentorian board where fights are the order of the day, and people being sent here if they behave in a civilised manner. There is nothing stopping anyone from creating such a board, of course. voy.com is a "good" place for such things, if they are really required, but they seem to be artificial, where the loudest voice will always win.
So who is going to be comfortable there? A lad who is not sure if he is gay or not? An abused person? A worried father, who has been asked to check "gay" out by his son? This is certainly the community, among others, that I have always hoped lurk here. Some of them post, too.
That is why I have zero interest in promoiting or being associated with such a messageboard. I have seen them before. They descend into backstabbing and backbiting, and become the standard fare of footstamping queens.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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saben
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On fire! |
Registered: May 2003
Messages: 1537
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I never said I was leaving. Of course friendship is always a key part of a successful forum.
Look at this tree. I cannot make it blossom when it suits me nor make it bear fruit before its time [...] No matter what you do, that seed will grow to be a peach tree. You may wish for an apple or an orange, but you will get a peach.
Master Oogway
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saben
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On fire! |
Registered: May 2003
Messages: 1537
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I was not saying that in depth discussion cannot be present here, however, as you say, the primary purpose of this place is for those who are lost. If I were to create a new forum, instead focusing on being of a "place of safety" it would focus on being a "place of learning", as such, though hopefully while the emphasis is on one aspect it would not lose the other, just as this place has not lost the learning element.
When I began being a regular internet user one of the first forums I visited had a similar set up to what I'm suggesting. It was based on a Playstation game, however, so we only discussed the in game issues (the game has a wonderful world crafted as it's setting, full of history, politics and thankfully very little religion). It was a place where people could ask questions that couldn't be answered elsewhere and theories could be presented, backed up with evidence, of course. It was the forum I learnt the most from on a mental level (this forum has taught me more emotionally) and I was very sad as more members joined, the site expanded and became like every other message board, a place for answering simple game play questions.
If you don't like the idea, I'm willing to scrap it, I don't want to create a forum in opposition to your wishes. I do think it is worth a trial, however. It would be a place where people could fight, debate, discuss and argue under a set of rules stopping things from turning personal. It will be a place for asking the "how"s and "why"s that can never really be answered.
Look at this tree. I cannot make it blossom when it suits me nor make it bear fruit before its time [...] No matter what you do, that seed will grow to be a peach tree. You may wish for an apple or an orange, but you will get a peach.
Master Oogway
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Guest
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On fire! |
Registered: March 2012
Messages: 2344
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in this mythical forum Saben--WHO WOULD BE KING ? Absolute power corrups absolutely...Any forum unless centered around the concept of human decency is doomed from the beginning.It is a given that there are those that would impose their standards on others.Another given is that PERHAPS the creator of such a forum would be reluctant to share power,All in all,things have a way of working themselves out provided that we DONT FIX IT!!! rob
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Guest
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On fire! |
Registered: March 2012
Messages: 2344
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darn!!! now what am I going to do with all the cases of bubbly to celebrate this blessed event......rob
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13800
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You have every right to do this.
It simply will not have my support ever, and no links to it of any sort will be posted or allowed here, nor any publicity for it.
It seems to me to be very strange that, instead of returning this place to what it was and should be, one decides to create something else.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13800
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Out of order, rob.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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saben
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On fire! |
Registered: May 2003
Messages: 1537
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We have more new faces and lots some old faces. As nice it would be to have the same old atmosphere, that isn't going to happen. This place has grown and moved on for better or for worse. The exact same thing happened with the forum I mentioned before, it outgrew the small community that frequented it and its purpose changed dramatically. I know I could do it regardless of your opinion, but I really would like your approval, it is not forthcoming however and I doubt I can change that. I'm yet to decide whether or not to do this thing, but I may give it a trial when I get the time, try and see if it is a positive or a negative influence.
Look at this tree. I cannot make it blossom when it suits me nor make it bear fruit before its time [...] No matter what you do, that seed will grow to be a peach tree. You may wish for an apple or an orange, but you will get a peach.
Master Oogway
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Guest
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On fire! |
Registered: March 2012
Messages: 2344
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rather than jumping my butt,please consider the damage done to Garrett......rob
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13800
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If people cease fighting and cease encouraging fighting and hostility, then it becomes what it was. It truly is that simple.
You are making linakges in logic that are not correct. One cannot equate new people, who are welcome, with a lousy atmosphere, which is not. New people who are attracted by a decent place with a decent atomsphire, where they are not likeoyto be sniped at or shit down by someone whose opinion differs form theirs , and existing people in that mould will return this place to civilisation.
If we continue to allow it to beceom a place of hostility it will encourage the openly hostile.
So, instead of harping on about how wonderful combative debate is, and a place which I am sure oyu will create to engender and foster it, why not put your mind behind returning this place to common decency?
My approval for a combative place will never be forthcoming. You don't need it anyway. http://www.voy.com will provide you with a hacker friendly, spam intensive place of your own. For six months at least it will be like the sound of one handed clapping. That's how long it takes if you have a web site to base it around.
I simply will not have this place wrecked by a need to have winners and losers. This is not a place for debates. It never was, it never will be, and it is not now.
It is a place to meet and chat and discuss. Like a bar, or a coffee shop. Where we enter as friends, have disagreements from time to time, and leave as friends having learnt more about each other.
Who will have the courage to pour his problems out in a comabtive place?
"I have the following problems......"
"Ah yes, but you are a whining swine and I don't care."
Yup, that will work so well. And that is why you will never have approval or links or publicity for it from me. I don't mean "Hardly ever", I mean Never.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13800
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I have emailed him to say so, and passed messages to him to say so. I miss him. His temporary absence is a direct result of the thing I object to so wholeheartedly, which is a combative atmosphere. He, like others, caught this atmosphere and it infected a few posts. That is changed. Quite a few posts are gone. I hope he returns and I respect him if he chooses not to.
He has valid points to make, like so many of us. I simply drew and draw the line at things in the post that most people never saw that were combative, if not more than that. But he caught the mood. That is not, in itself, his fault. It is instead the fault of those who created the mood, and mine for not jumping in sooner to stop it.
But I trust you all. I do not live my life online. The last week has been horrendous for me, and I have felt that deep trust to have been broken by numerous people on many occasions.
So, no-one is immune, from the sweetest to the most acidic, until we are back on track. And we will be back on track soon.
Garrett, if you are reading, you remain welcome. You were never unwelcome. It is behaviours I criticise whenthinsg go wrong, not people.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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saben
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On fire! |
Registered: May 2003
Messages: 1537
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But I am sick, unmotivated and overall feel like shit, so I'm not in the mood for this "discussion", especially when it feels my ideas for a solution are under attack by one who opposes that self same principle so strongly...
Look at this tree. I cannot make it blossom when it suits me nor make it bear fruit before its time [...] No matter what you do, that seed will grow to be a peach tree. You may wish for an apple or an orange, but you will get a peach.
Master Oogway
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Guest
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On fire! |
Registered: March 2012
Messages: 2344
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what you may not understand is that YOU have our unconditional love and support...rob
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with respect,a response and a suggestion 
Re: Attack ideas, but not people 
Re: Ideas don't have feelings 
Debate/Discussion/Changing Gears 
I Understand... 
Re: Departure? 
