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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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I just want to know.
If the GWG is nothing more than a repository for unfinished works should I pull the plug?
Is there such a thing as a finished work at all?
The GWG was put in place as a place for authors to display works in progress. A place where they can get help with spelling,grammar,syntax... in essense the skills of writing.
It seems that personally, whenever I take a stand on an issue I am in the wrong. It matters not a rats ass if I am right in my assertation or not.... I am just in the wrong....
smith asked the question, when you are chipped at for so long does a time come when the pieces can no longer fit together...
smith..... Yes, there is.....
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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It was an insult. Not from the messenger, but from someone unspecified.
Measure success by repeat visitors, not by comments that are unpleasant
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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warren c. e. austin
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Likes it here |
Location: Toronto, Ontario, CANADA
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 247
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Perhaps it's fitting that now should be the time, I speak out on this issue.
You and I have seldom occupied the same space on a wide variety of often disparate issues; but one piece of that ground that you most definitely may be assured we do occupy and share is regarding the Gay Writer's Guild, and the service you, and Kevy, and others have so faithfully, willfully and remarkably, provided to so many.
You're doing a grand job of it, and I, for one would be disappointed were you to decide to disband the Gay Writer's Guild, in the midst of whatever turmoil may have been created over Driver Nine and the emergence of his work once more on what may well prove to be, however irregularly presented, a sanctioned Forum.
You, as one of his last known publishers were correct in your having taken the position you did, just as Timmy was correct in his taking his, as an Author. You had my support, and that of a good many other of your friends, too.
Perhaps it is somewhat remise of the many of us visitors to your web-site; and who do regularly avail ourselves of one or more of features we find there, to have not made known to you, and others, just how much we appreciate all that you, and your organization do do to foster, and further, a climate suitable for growth, and fulfilment, so much needed by today's emerging talent.
Warren C. E. Austin
The Gay Deceiver Productions
Toronto, Canada
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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You know, I have been thinking about this for some time now. We at the GWG all have. One time we even considered deleting all the unfinished works in order to trim down space and all the unjustifiable reasons any of you could possibly come up with.
But..... I got to thinking as to why some of these stories are unfinished. Some people begin to write to resolve issues within themselves. Once these issues are put to rest, then sometimes the author moves on with his life. That is one reason. Sometimes authors just run out of ideas. Sometimes they fall in love and are distracted (understandibly) by their newly kindled romance. Sometimes their computers go KAPLOOEY and they have not the means to continue their work. These are but a few of the many reasons people either choose not to continue or capitulate to the fact that they no longer can.
At the GWG, when we first founded it in it's noviciate form, it was solely intended to be a meeting place for authors. A place where like minded artists could bounce ideas off one another in order to tap the creative juices. It was meant to be a compilation of recources related to our genre of writing and the art of wordcraft in general.
We endeavored to solicit the finest writers we could find, seasoned authors to act as mentors to newly burgeoning talent.
We also sought out editors to work with authors, to check spelling and work out some of the gramatical bumps in the road that global translations have a way of creating.
It is important to understand that the GWG was not designed to be an archive of any sort. This happened as requests came in that we should showcase newly developing works in order to bring feedback to new authors without the means to develope a web site of their own. Over time, though more and more people asked to be added to the roles of authors. How could we as a group refuse? We couldn't.
Once this happened we also enlisted readers to sift through the myriad of works found on the internet and invite new authors to participate. And to ensure that all stories held in trust within our archives met the criteria of the GWG.
In the 4 years since it's birth the GWG has seen some good times and some sad times. We have seen friends come and go, and the going is the sadest of all. We've built computers for authors and websites as well as. We partied in Montreal together as a group and squawled like babies when we departed.
I am not telling you all this to solicit sympathy, quite the contrary. I just want you to understand what the GWG is there for and how it got to be what it is.....
For better or worse....
Marc
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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warren c. e. austin
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Likes it here |
Location: Toronto, Ontario, CANADA
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 247
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Marc
You've related for why the GWG was creted, and how it has evolved; and detailed somewhat the dilema you have regarding hosting content on a long-term basis.
I suggest that perhaps you continue featuring your emerging talent's work, just you have been doing so admirably for some time now; but that once an Author's story has been completed that it be removed from your worthy Forum and moved to an alternate, but permanent Archive separate, and apart, from that of the GWG; one perhaps that you are prepared to maintain on behalf of those Authors, but at a nominal fee.
Make this new Archive a division of GWG, but one with it's own Domain-name; sonething snappy and easily remembered, with it's own ability to draw it's own clientele. I propose "GayLit" for example, or something similar, perhaps "WordSmiths"; hell you get my drift.
By separating entirely, and divorcing finished product, from the main body of the GWG, this will again allow your Organization to focus on it's original mission, at one and the same time, as providing a suitable repository for your talents' endeavours as a whole as each are finished. This too would allow for the inclusion of art-work, imagery, sound, and other features that could make for very long-term, and enticing reading, and provide a venue whereby suitable advertizing revenue could be generated
to support your visitors page-views.
I'm certain that Glad Day Bookstore [ http://www.gladday.com/, or similar, would leap at an opportunity to be associated with this type of enterprise, especially where their wares would provide an agreeable compliment to your offerings, and in a manner that you could control to make it as appealing and unobtusive as practicable.
A thought, and one that is worthy of being considered, is all.
Warren C. E. Austin
The Gay Deceiver Productions
Toronto, Canada
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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In essense it is a good idea and we have considered opening an archive finished works in the past.
I will discuss this angle with the other board members to be sure.
Marc
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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Guest
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On fire! |
Registered: March 2012
Messages: 2344
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glad to see some good ideas come out of all this and i like what marc had to say--made me think....darn nice to see Warrens input...well said...r
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e
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On fire! |
Location: currently So Cal
Registered: May 2002
Messages: 1179
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The GWG "was put in place as a place for authors to display works in progress," and it is in fact "a repository for unfinished works" then is it not serving it's purpose? If so, I can see no reason to "pull the plug."
Think good thoughts,
e
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Guest
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On fire! |
Registered: March 2012
Messages: 2344
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Let me preface by saying that I am completely in favor of reasonable protection of authors intellectual property.This was not the essence of the debate.What was apparent from the start was that some parties DID NOT COMPLETELY explore this new site.Further reading would have shown that all copyrights were in place giving both the owner of the site rights to HIS efforts.Further reading would have shown that Driver was given his copyright stamp....Now what has all this got do do with the posted topic?My good friend got all bent out of shape and I saw good oppertunity to snap his undies.To make matters worse,I poked fun at GWG.However,anyone reading the attached posts will see that some good may come out of all this.IT GOT PEOPLE TO THINK..Get mad at the frog all you want guys,but you all have to admit that ROB got some of you to think.That is a good thing.Now Im gonna really p**s Warren off.Gotcha to come back to this board did I not.Ol rob heated up the frying pan and War jumped right back in to Timmys place of safty.Sometimes the chemistry generates a few sparks..That can be a good thing.Its what we all do with these sparks that makes the difference..rob
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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Due to a concerted drop off of participation at the GWG I have been wondering for quite some time as to wether it is worth the effort, time, (and expense).
There are a plethora of sites collecting stories out there some good others not so good. One more or less wouldn't make a single ripple in the pond.
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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The key factor is participation, or the lack of it.
On every level.....
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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Guest
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On fire! |
Registered: March 2012
Messages: 2344
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You mentioned help with spelling,sentence structure and other good points...Tell us what GWG does--I would be interested as I am working on a story and could use the help.Here is where you could really shine Marc.Put finger to keyboard and tell us what you think.Both you and War have our respect....rob
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Guest
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On fire! |
Registered: March 2012
Messages: 2344
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arnt there school groups out there that could benefit from your talent.Maybe as a Guild officer you could encourage some of your talented writers to visit schools in search of more talent.What do you think?....rob
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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Once an author completes enough of his story to begin submitting chapters (I never do until I have at least 8 completed, holding 2-3 in reserve incase a rewrite is needed) he/she sends it to the chief editor to be assigned a working editor. The working editor then proof reads the chapter and highlights and annomalities (with an explaination/solution/instruction on how to resolve it/them) and then the chapter is returned to the author for the author to
(A) Make the correction.
(B) Reject the correction (usually based on localized speech patterns and local slang usage). Or
(C) Request further help.
Once this process is completed the story is coded and added to the general archive.
The object of this rather complicated process is two fold. (1) It closely emulates the process of professional editing for publication, and (2) It bolsters the authors proficiency with the english language.
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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I'm afraid the school system isn't ready for us as of yet. But seriously, the genre of the material published is countrary to most school's policies reguarding sexual content.
I think the internet ( along with it's ckoak of invisibility and annonymity) is the best place for young people to express themselves.
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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Guest
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On fire! |
Registered: March 2012
Messages: 2344
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There are many ways to cirvumvent the school system.one of the best ways of doing this is to work through the local gsa-(gay-straight-alliance)-...The effort just might bear fruit....rob
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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I think internet connections to the authors are best and the most widly accessable.
The most bang for the buck so to speak....
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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smith
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On fire! |
Registered: January 1970
Messages: 1095
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# Marc....I don't like you saying you are always wrong. You were right in this and you've been right many times before. When you are right, I admire you for standing up for what you believe. I admire the way you have explained this problem. Any site that helps people express their emotions is excellent. Our lives are works in progress, why should our stories be any different?
# Add another reason to your list of why stories sit incomplete: Sometimes they begin in reality and then have to slide into fantasy and sometimes the fantasy just won't work.
# Marc...There may be a time when the pieces no longer fit together but let's both be glad that that time hasn't come for either of us. There are too many things to do, new friends to meet, stories to write, people to love.
{{{hugs}}}
smith
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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Well,
It seems the last straw that has been placed on that old camels back.
It seems extreemily unlikely the GWG will survive this.
It is sad, alot of very hard work to be all for naught.
The servers and hosting company are paid till January 1, 2004
It will more than likely just melt into obscurity.
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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warren c. e. austin
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Likes it here |
Location: Toronto, Ontario, CANADA
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 247
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Please Marc
Firstly tell us what the problem is that is so dire you will lose your Organization; and secondly, what it is that we can do to help you.
Warren
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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No Message Body
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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warren c. e. austin
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Likes it here |
Location: Toronto, Ontario, CANADA
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 247
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... you're gonna talk with me, or Brian, by hook or crook; if I have telephone you, or come down there myself.
Now gives us some details so that collectively me may at least try to be of some help to you dude.
Warren
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No Message Body
"Be excellent to each other, and, party on dudes"!
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Guest
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On fire! |
Registered: March 2012
Messages: 2344
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As one of the authors of a long-unfinished story posted in GWG's archives, I would not like to see GWWG fold. I think more people would miss it than seems apparant at the moment.
Of course, keeping it going, re-vitalizing it even, will take a lot of work just as it has in the past.
New people should step up and help the team that keeps it all going behind the scenes, perhaps. Especially if part of the problem is that some of the current hard workers are feeling a bit burnt out.
And of course, it usually takes something like this to get more of us to say thank you to the hard workers...certainly that's true for me.
So...thanks for all that Marc and Joejoe and all the others do!
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Jojoe
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Getting started |
Registered: January 1970
Messages: 4
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Maybe I can explain what the problem is. I understand Marc’s dilemma because I am in the same boat. We had a long discussion on this last night and still didn’t get anywhere.
Problem #1 – Past volunteers and staff at the guild have given the guild a ‘bad name’ with things said and did in the name of the guild without the guild’s board knowledge or blessing. This ran off quite a bit of volunteers and authors alike and ticked off quite a few others as well tarnishing the name that others worked so hard for. There is a new board of directors and none of this activity had happened for over a year – but people still think that the trouble makers are still in power. They aren’t! There is also no pressure from anyone associated with the guild for authors to post a new chapter. This was never sanctioned and will never happen in the future.
Problem #2 – Past people associated with the guild were screaming for money to cover costs, turning people away. Money was never an issue – there are a certain number of us willing to gladly shoulder the costs of hosting the site and other expenses. This is only a few hundred dollars a year since moving to our newer and more stable host. We don’t need money. We have vowed to never ask for another penny again.
Problem #3 – Participation of Authors. We need authors to submit work, help other authors get better, and PARTICIPATE in the guild through the message board, pointing out good resources that they have found, etc. The guild is supposed to be a resource for others, but no one is using what is there, or helping to ask or create what others are looking for.
Problem #4 – HELP, HELP, HELP! We need people who have a good strong grasp of the English language and able to work well with others to help with the editing of work. We currently have two editors – one is working on a degree in college and doesn’t have the time while classes are in session, and the other is not able to due to health reasons. We currently have at least eight stories waiting to get assigned an editor to help them, not to mention the others that have asked for an editor to get them started. We have taken a few different avenues to relieve this, but so far nothing has helped.
Problem #5 – They look at us as strictly a story archive. The guild was never set up as an archive like Nifty to hold tons of stories with daily updates. The archive is secondary to what the guild was set up to do. Many people don’t understand this, and as such get upset and bad mouth the guild when updates don’t happen daily or weekly. They will happen when there is something to post.
Marc, Kevy, and I have been working at this for at least eight months trying to get the guild kick started again. Nothing we have tried has done any good other than cause others to take a peak for a few seconds. We even made email and web site hosting available for free to authors – and no one has asked. It gets very frustrating.
I don’t see the guild surviving myself if we can’t get past problems 1, 2 and 5 and see something happen with problems 3 and 4. We have been doing all we can for a while now - the rest is up to the authors and others. There are smaller little nitpicky things as well, but these are the biggies.
Jojoe
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Guest
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On fire! |
Registered: March 2012
Messages: 2344
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I might be able to help out editing one of the new authors. Send me an email with the guidelines and expectations, and I'll have a think.
Settling into my new life takes precedence, but I plan to have more time for writing, reading, and so why not find out more about editing, too?
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frog
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Getting started |
Registered: January 1970
Messages: 8
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Judging by your rather harsh treatment of rob,it is understandable why you are having problems.The underlying cause is MINDSET and an inflexable attitude,For one,I would be delighted and happy to edit for you at no cost.I am wheelchair bound,but my fingers can dance on a keyboard.I do strongly believe in what GWG is trying to do and would be supportive of that effort.Your request for help,I think,is well recieved here. A positive thought,the difficulties GWG is having are solvable.What is required is inventive thinking and an awareness that all things are possible when WE let them happen.GWG I think has realised that its survival is at stake.Perhaps a fresh viewpoint may do the trick..What I see is that a second chance is in the works.Heck if my survival depended on kissing a few frogs,thats not too high a price..rob
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Marc, you provide a most worthy, valuable and much needed service. 
A suggestion, nothing more. 
Re: A suggestion, nothing more. 
Re: All the King's horses..... All the King's Men..... 
Marc, that's simply not good enough ... 
These are some of the bigger problems facing the guild 
