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smith
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On fire! |
Registered: January 1970
Messages: 1095
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Why is it more easily acceptable to be lesbian than gay? At my high school this past week, two very popular girls let it out to a few close friends that they loved each other and they couldn't stand not saying it any longer. The reaction went from shock to embarrassment to varied degrees of 'whatever' but no one will want to bash them or hurt them for it.
Why is it almost "cute" for two girls but if I said I was gay, I'd get the shit beat out of me??? It's the macho mentality??? I mean, girls can and do walk around all the time holding hands, hugging and kissing,lesbian or not.
My best girlfriend says that she can always tell when a guy is gay by the way he looks and talks and that there's just something "different" about him. Do girls have good 'gaydar'?
smith (confused, as always)
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robert bryce
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Really getting into it |
Registered: January 1970
Messages: 414
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your not confused its that a lot of guys are insecure basically fueling this macho thing
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robert bryce
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Really getting into it |
Registered: January 1970
Messages: 414
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Plus the fact that society practically worships the female form(how yucky)and that females can do no wrong..go figure........rob
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Rob has part of the answer right on the nose. Homophobia stems primarily from men who for one reason or another have had thoughts or feeling that make them a little unsure of their own sexuality. The fear about that internal struggle manifests itself (way to often) in gay bashing.
A few years ago, their was a study (I believe it was at Cornell University) in wich the subjects were men that had admitted physical assault on someone they thought to be gay. The subjects were tested for physical sexual response, things like blood flow, body heat in key places on the body. Then the men were exposed to gay pornography. Almost 80% of these gay bashers showed "significant arousal" to the gay porn.
But I beleive their is a deeper reason for this as well. I believe that in our society, being a gay man is the last acceptable predjudice. I wish I knew why that was so, but I think the answer lies somwhere in fear. It is taking a long time to get over this but it is happening.
Sorry smith, I wish I could be more help on this question. It's a mystery I hope we figure out soon and get past.
Much Love to you,
Kevin
"Be excellent to each other, and, party on dudes"!
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i have the world's most accurate gay-dar. probably because i should have been born a boy, but i'm a girl, so i'm that in tune to both sides.
i've noticed the same thing; it's easier for lesbians than it is gay guys. but not all the time. i'm sure a few people in school knew about the relationship between raychel and i. it's all driven by straight-male mentality. guys LOVE watching two girls. they don't see it as gay, they see it as two females doing stuff to each other, and get off on it. but straight guys couldn't stand to watch two guys doing things to each other, they'd rather gouge their eyes out.
females are more accepting of gay males, though. maybe not on a whole, but i've seen it. as for myself, i'd much rather watch two guys (everything from holding hands to kissing, to walking, to doing more) than two girls.
it IS the macho mentality, unfortunately, and it's a damned shame.
i think your best friend may be referring to "flaming"? i'm not sure .. there's some boys who seep "gayness" just as strong as some lesbians seep the "butch" vibe. but as we all know, these are stereotypes, and while some guys and girls are just natural seepers, others are not. no one knew i was .. whatever i am. not wholly gay, bi i guess. no one had a clue. but everyone suspected about matthew (boy i referenced in some posts back).
then you have daniel johns, who EVERYONE and their mother says has to be at least bi-sexual, but he strongly stands by the fact he's just "an effeminate heterosexual." of course, i still have MY doubts, but that's only because i wish he WAS gay.  and that's a whole other box of condoms.
i hate the fact the world thinks this way, though. guys should be just as safe in coming out as it seems females are, but there's always exceptions to the rule. we had a speaker come to my women's studies class, talking about when she came out. she went to the roughest high school in this city, and still now and again gets harrassed. she was beaten up 3 times her senior year in high school, but one of her gay male friends got through school without a scratch.
she took her girlfriend to prom, and to be safe she had escorts with her when she left the building.
my void does not want.
-- 2.13.61.
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...that some men confusing masculinity / 'male-ness' with force and forcefulness.
Women are seen as the weaker sex in many ways, so two women saying they like other women, well, that's almost to be expected in a way. However, if a man says he likes other men that might be seen as suddenly having female tendencies, hence he's weak and no longer a real man.
Hence, he's in line for a smacking, like many daddies thinking they can smack their sons into becoming men (ie: violent monsters just like themselves).
Just a little pet theory of mine... I know it's frustrating, I envy girls too in the way they can be so physically close to each other without causing feelings of disgust or hate from the surroundings.
Just look at the Madonna/Britney/Christina saliva-exchange that got so much attention in media recently. What if that had been like David Bowie, Justin Timberlake and Nick Carter instead?  What had people's reactions been? Certanly not anything like what we saw from the girly trio. 
-L
"But he that hath the steerage of my course,
direct my sail."
-William Shakespeare, Romeo and Juliet, Act One, Scene IV
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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Guys have been taught by pron that watching 2 girls is great fun and arousing. Thus they fantasise that two lesbians will want them. They see "2 for the price of 1" and also feel some sort of power.
Gay guys scare them. They once were attracted to "little Peter" and feel perplexed, and then threatened by it. And yes, they would have kicked peter to hell and back because they were upset by fancying him.
My son finds lesbians titillating and gay guys making out disgusting.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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or it can be.
A slim female body, well muscled, topped by an intelligent face and a great smile is not yucky.
A fat male form with 3 days' growth of stubble is yucky.
We need to remove ourselves from bias and prejudice in all forms here.
If we do not do so, then we will be as bad as those who rail against the homosexual based on a preconception of a stereotype. We should thus stop from exhibiting any and all of the following characteristics:- ageism
- heightism
- elitism
- genderism
- orientationism
- prejudice against the physically handicapped
- prejudice against the mentally handicapped
- prejudice against the limbless
- religious intolerance
- racism
- weightism
So many more things.
Prejudice starts as insidious and subliminal mention of things and becomes a huge snowball, hurtling downhill out of control. Cicero knew how to do this well, ending his speeches "Carthago delenda est" until it was so.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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In the epics of grecian poets, in art, and in literature intimate relations in varying degrees can be seen.
It is commonly held that the female form by its curves and femanine demeanor exhibit the qualities of love , motherhood, sensuality and beauty.
The male form however seems historically more suited to manly persuits. In effect, battle, a show of strength.
You never see men sitting around the fountain together smelling the flowers so to speak.
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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Steve
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Really getting into it |
Location: London, England
Registered: November 2006
Messages: 465
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I disagree. Give me the opportunity to look at a nubile, well-formed, pretty female nude or a youthful, well-formed, handsome male nude I shall always prefer the latter and find it more aesthetically pleasing.
Apart from that - It wasn't Cicero; it was Cato. ;-D
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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Only a few letters differ between cicero and cato! Ah well. And i tried looking it up and failed.
You are dealing with comparisons and preference. Surely you can see beauty, even in something you have no desire for?
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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Why is a lesbian relationship allowed, even approved of, and most certainly salivated over by many guys, but a gay male relatiomnship despised and also seems to dusgust the "average male"
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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...how people can't see the beauty in two males making out, kissing, whichever. certain shots, certain pairs are breathtaking. the stereotype has already been laid out (girls making out/whichever = good/yum; guys making out/whichever = bad/gross) at the start of this topic, but i really do wonder if some are lying about it, or afraid to admit it.
like a few posts back, when someone mentioned the tests run on guys watching gay pr0n -- i really believe that there's a bunch of people who get violent or insulting about it just to cover up the fact that, deep down, they like it.
my void does not want.
-- 2.13.61.
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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If I am right, which I strongly suspect, then it is societal conditioning that explains gay-bashing.
There is the point, though that says, psychologically "Seeing another man's erect penis suggests sex, and the very suggestion of sex is enough to stimulate even a 100% hgeterosexual male into at least minimal arousal."
To back this counter theory, nakedness per se, in the company of people of any gender, is mildly arousing when unused to it. So male arousal may just be precipitated by seeing the naked form of any gender, or by being naked.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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I have postulated the same notion.....
All men are definately gay.... Some are just in denial....
One basic thing that I can without a doubt attest to is that even the most stringently vocal red neck hard line str8 guy will not turn down a blow job.
And he will smile all the way home....
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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robert bryce
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Really getting into it |
Registered: January 1970
Messages: 414
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now if only the girls looked like guys,what a paradise this would be...r
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saben
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On fire! |
Registered: May 2003
Messages: 1537
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When I was in grade 11 there was an openly lesbian couple at my school. Most people didn't care, other than the principal who was a real bastard about things and the occasional joke being thrown around. Then in grade 12 after I came out and started dating Jake, well, we got some comments, I'm sure there was gossip and jokes but over all I can't say the reaction was too bad, maybe because neither of us were overly effeminate (Jake being an ex-national Judo champion for his age and weight) or maybe because recently in the media people have been exposed to it a lot more. I don't know, but coming from a small city of only 100 000 people I would have expected worse, but really, nothing happened... Perhaps the media just scares us into staying in the closet more than necessary, or perhaps I was just lucky never to be around the homophobic straight guys when they were drunk.
Look at this tree. I cannot make it blossom when it suits me nor make it bear fruit before its time [...] No matter what you do, that seed will grow to be a peach tree. You may wish for an apple or an orange, but you will get a peach.
Master Oogway
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