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trevor
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Really getting into it |
Registered: November 2002
Messages: 732
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A friend of mine recently posted a question here - something that has been on his mind and troubling him. He asked it as politely and tactfully as he is able. He was humble and apologetic when he thought he'd inadvertently offended someone. Granted, the timing may not have been the best and I disagree with at least his choice of words, and his meaning to a degree.
This is someone who seldom posts here and his last post that I recall was virtually ignored. Granted, some of you may not have been able to relate to it, but a "Hi" or some awknowledgement might have been nice.
He was effectively asked/ordered repeatedly to shut up in this last thread by the one person who is the least appropriate to be making that request, who himself had as many posts "contributing" to the "offending" thread as the original poster. My friend was told he was causing the current problem repeatedly by the very primary instigator of the general problem.
He was pretty much blasted with sarcasm in response to his lack of understanding and differing opinion and was blamed for being the last straw when in fact this was HIS first straw. His thread was shutdown which I am sure was not personal in any way, but I'm just as sure he took it that way.
There may have been no satisfactory answer to his question, I guess an awknowledgement that those things can at least appear to happen would have been good.
I ask that we consider my friend's perspective and what he will take away from this dialog. If his question, which I believe was asked innocently, became a self-fulfilling prophecy, I do not believe that's because *HE* fulfilled it.
I do appreciate timmy's patience during this mess, but I also know that he is both vocal and literate enough to communicate his thoughts effectively as well as having administrative authority.
timmy said to stay and try to improve this place because we are all responsible for the atmosphere here. Someone else said we can't help if we don't know who is hurting. I hope by pointing out this situation as, I'm guessing, it appears to my friend, I am helping more than I'm hurting.
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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You know, that is half helpful, half not.
Much of what you say is accusative, though politely worded, at a time when we are trying very hard to remove a climate of accusations, and that is very much in the non-helpful segment.
I could look at the very few locked threads and try to work out whom you refer to and then make assumptions about what was meant, and by the wrong person. Equally I could get it right. And others could do the same thing and make good or poor assumptions. So, let's do neither.
Let's make no assumptions about this at all. Instead let's wait until the seven days have elapsed onthe "firebreak" concept and then ask your friend, if they still feel the need, to pose their thought in a different manner.
That is the preamble to the helpful part. The remainder of it is that, though a few posts do get ignored in a general hurly burly of a messageboard, it seems that we did not rise tothe occasion with correct understanding. So, that is a lesson to take away.
But let's not just say "hi" aimlessly unless it's a "hi" thread.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Trevor,
Perhaps some people hesitated to reply to that thread because it asked difficult questions about topics that are being discouraged here for now while peace is being tried for again.
Some people feel that they cannot say what is really on their minds for fear of another negative time, and so are walking on eggshells because of it.
"Always forgive your enemies...nothing annoys them quite so much." Oscar Wilde
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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It always comes down to the choice of words. Even an appalling thought can be expressed in a clean, clear, and polite manner. Since we do not tend to post appalling thoughts here, that initself is not an issue.
Walking on eggshells is not the right thing to do. It is the reverse, in so many ways, of a hasty amd ill expressed set of words. All we need is gentlemanly conduct.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Steve
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Really getting into it |
Location: London, England
Registered: November 2006
Messages: 465
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Hi, Trevor.
You know what you wrote is not accurate. The question was not ignored. I myself tried to relate to it three times on the message board and once in a private email. I know that it was not me who was required to respond, but I and others did do so.
Sometimes, however bad we feel about something, we just have to convince ourselves that at this time "that's as good as it's going to get".
Warmly,
Steve
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marc
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Needs to get a life! |
Registered: March 2003
Messages: 4729
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A question can be as difficult to answer as it was to ask it. As much as the asking part is reflective of the person doing the asking the answer part is just as reflective. It is a matter of perceptions and experiences that allow opinions to be rendered. I used the word "opinion" besause that is what each individual can offer, no more no less.
The asker of the question also needs to be willing to accept what tid bits others can offer by was of opinion at face value. Just as the asker was doing his best to ask a well presented question, other people presented their opinion as best they were able.
All we can do is our best.
Life is great for me... Most of the time... But then I meet people online... Very few are real friends... Many say they are but know nothing of what it means... Some say they are, but are so shallow...
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Here is a hug for him, in case he needs one or wants one:
{{{{hug}}}}
-L
"But he that hath the steerage of my course,
direct my sail."
-William Shakespeare, Romeo and Juliet, Act One, Scene IV
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robert bryce
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Really getting into it |
Registered: January 1970
Messages: 414
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Nice try guy,The thread was locked in order to stop the hate...And here we see another attempt to rake up recent wounds....WHEN WILL THE HATE STOP..It never will untill all put down the guns of hate..The constant picking and digging is what continues this pattern...Its time to STOP the war and get on with our lives.There are lessons to be learned here and posts-no matter how carefully or politely worded hurt others period.Its pretty obvious that someone is not liked very much and attempts are being made to drive him from this board...These attempts are just as wrong as the combative and wrong behavior of that ONE person---Very clever attempt to blame rob--and were all sick of it...rob
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Steve
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Really getting into it |
Location: London, England
Registered: November 2006
Messages: 465
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No Message Body
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I've known Trevor and Rick a lot longer than you. In fact I doubt you really know either of them.
They don't hate anyone. Trevor's an all-round nice and cuddly guy who means everyone well and has been very supportive and friendly to people on this board (including me), and Rick is a tremendously sensitive and kind man with a heart of purest gold. If ever there was a person incapable of harming a fly, I believe Rick would be that person. If someone gets hurt, he is the first to lay the blame on himself!
Accusing either of promoting or spreading hate is mean, and I find your insinuations unethical to say the least. I believe you owe some people some apologies.
I don't mean to cause you any hurt, or stir things up on the board, but both of these people are dear friends of mine and I will stand up for them. If you are sincere in your call for people to put down their guns you need to be less blunt and stop making posts like this, okay?
I know you can be gentle and kind, I read the emails you sent to me about my stories.  Just be that man okay?
Sorry if I harmed anyone's feelings with this post, that was never my intention. I just wanted to point out Rick and Trevor are about the last two people who would be intentionally hateful. I don't want them to be misunderstood by anyone for any reason...
Sincerely:
-L
"But he that hath the steerage of my course,
direct my sail."
-William Shakespeare, Romeo and Juliet, Act One, Scene IV
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robert bryce
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Really getting into it |
Registered: January 1970
Messages: 414
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Nice try--and I am not trying to be unkind....Friends or persons that say they want to be friends dont constantly pick at each other.At last count there were at least 20 posts all with the same content but with different words...I am desperatly trying to be less combative on this board but these comments do tend to make a person pretty defensive....The language is clear,the context is clear----stop the silliness and tell your well meaning friends to do the same--IN PLAIN LANGUAGE--What they are doing is to fuel this debate----This constant picking and picking and picking and picking---you get the point I hope...Please,in clear words,tell them to back off and let this situation heal......rob
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robert bryce
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Really getting into it |
Registered: January 1970
Messages: 414
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Another thread that should be locked to prevent further combativness...rob
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One easy answer.
Don't do it again.
Enough blame has been tossed around. I myself thought that Rob was driving me away because of how frustrated I was with his comments. I thought he had moved past it and yet another thread was locked. A freind told me I should try to help him instead of leaving, for him, I will try. I will try to help as best I can, in any way I can. But if it continues, I just will not post to anything like that again. I don't want my friends hurt anymore, period.
I am trying to forgive and move past it.
Lets all try that.
Kevin
"Be excellent to each other, and, party on dudes"!
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robert bryce
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Really getting into it |
Registered: January 1970
Messages: 414
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And your still doing it.Timmy locked the thread because it was time to move on and make this a better place..What is now happening at this point in time is that you ARE TRYING TO DRIVE rob from this forum...STOP IT,we ALL can see what you are trying to do and it will not work...I have put an end to my bad behavour and its time YOU did the same.....rob
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trying to drive you or anyone else away. I stated how I felt, that is all. I also suggested we forgive and move on. Maybe you read that part?
robert bryce wrote:
What is now happening at this point in time is that you ARE TRYING TO DRIVE rob from this forum...STOP IT,we ALL can see what you are trying to do and it will not work...I have put an end to my bad behavour and its time YOU did the same.....rob
You will note in my post I called you nothing. I only stated my frustration at your last post in Ricks thread. I talked about MY feelings. That is all. Stating what i feel is not 'bad behavior', at least in my opinion.
You seem to gleen a motive that isn't there. I will admit to you now that I had considered that as a possible solution to keep my friends from getting hurt. Right now I am just trying to forgive and move on.
Peace and love,
Kevin
"Be excellent to each other, and, party on dudes"!
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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We have now identified Rick, yet he does not come forwad to speak. So any criticism of his actions implicit or explicit is wrong.
I have Trevor's words only that he was offended. I do not disbelioeve Trevor, but I am saddend that he states that Rick took it as a personal affront of some sort that the thread was locked. Yet the explanation was clear. It could not have been clearer. And reading again I see this is an assumption that has been made. "His thread was shutdown which I am sure was not personal in any way, but I'm just as sure he took it that way."
I am not "just as sure", for he has said nothing. Again I make no criticism, I state facts vs assumptions only. He has no need to speak unless and until he chooses.
I see now in the messages between the time the original was posted many valiant attempts to staunch the bloodflow that has been restarted. Some of them wise, some unwise, but all good spirited.
But "timmy said to stay and try to improve this place because we are all responsible for the atmosphere here. Someone else said we can't help if we don't know who is hurting. I hope by pointing out this situation as, I'm guessing, it appears to my friend, I am helping more than I'm hurting" has not proved to be the case, now has it?
A pause, a firebreak, of a week was not too much to ask for, nor to hope for. But at once we have more division.
So, you started it with your message. Show me how you will take practical steps to stop it. I can't. I have done all I can. So let's see what you can do. A genuine request, Trevor. And I want to be sure that no-oine thinks I am in any way criticising Rick
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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The suggestion thatthe thread be placed temporarily on suspension was a very practical idea from rob, not an action against him.
I considered it and weighed it and decided to act on it.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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I have tried everything to stop it. Everything I could think of to do.
Maybe I am part of the problem, I just don't know. I am at my wits end with this situation.
See you all soon,
Kevin
"Be excellent to each other, and, party on dudes"!
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i wish i knew what to tell you. while i'm not a big fan of the "ignore it and it will go away/stop/insert desired result here, i also think that this scenario is all akin to heads beating into walls, or dead horses, or the like.
it's not going anywhere, and instead is chasing people away. you don't need to do anything kevin, just let it go, or come vent in an IM with me if you need (except well, i have away's up right now but it's only temporary..). sweetie you don't have to be a saviour all the time, and those of us who know you know there's nothing you need to do, or have to. just be you. just be.
my void does not want.
-- 2.13.61.
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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13796
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You know, it was not your post that threatens to reignite things.
~sighs~ It was such a simple request. And it was not you who decided to ignore it. The request is still simple.
I call upon Trevor as the one who started this new thread to work out what to do,and to slve the problme he has initiated by disregarding what had been asked for so simply, plainly and politely.
Or shall I just let this place run riot and turn into ashes?
Anyone sensing deep frustration can run one of these messageboards himself. I've just about had enough.
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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robert bryce
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Really getting into it |
Registered: January 1970
Messages: 414
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Solution or answer----offer friendship to rob--that will make him happy and feel like part of the family........Stay here at this forum because you are a brother and he is a brother......respond to my e-mail address and let me know WHAT YOU THINK.....I will listen nor will I respond unless you ask.....When I do respond I promise to respond with understanding and love......Even if you still gots a problem with me,lets talk it out.....rob
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Guest
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On fire! |
Registered: March 2012
Messages: 2344
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I thanks my friends for taking up for me and for trying to help ..
But Please stop it ..please
Please do not hurt your friends because of me .. It is not worth it ..
I have left this place and I only came back to post this ..
a friend told me what was going on here and that is why I came back to post this ..
So I ask you all to stop fighting here because of me ..I didn't mean to cause all of this .. Now I am asking you to stop hurting your friends because me ..
I am taking the full blame for this .. So please do not hate my friends for it ..they were only trying to help me ..
once again I thank my friends but please don't hurt your other friends because of me ..
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Please don't think it is.
"Be excellent to each other, and, party on dudes"!
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He is my friend too, and I am very sad he is hurting... 
Re: Frustrated 
"The lady doth protest too much, methinks" Hamlet, Shakespea 
Re: "The lady doth protest too much, methinks" Hamlet, Shakespea 
It's not your fault Rick ... 
