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timmy
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Has no life at all |
Location: UK, in Devon
Registered: February 2003
Messages: 13800
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It is all part of the "Why am I gay?" thing.
When we are children, apart from the fact that little boys have liuttle willies, and little girls have an an=bsence of willy, our bodies, male and female, are remarkably similar. This is expecially true when the child is physically fit and in good muscle condition.
When viewed from behind, the body form of a juvenile (I am using the biological definition not the legal definition) male is indistinguishable from a juvenile female.
Oh, a disclaimer here. Anyone with a dirty mind who thinks I am about to write a thing about sex with children can think again. I am not.
In general we grow up seeing very few naked people. But, as juveniles, nakedness seems to be fairly normally accepted. So little boys see little girls and vice versa.
The reason for my musing is to try to work out why, to me and to almost all gay me, the female adult form is unattractive. Please do not try to twist this into finding a juvenile form attractive.
As puberty kicks in the shape changes are most obvious on a girl's body. The hips widen, the butt changes shape, emphasising a narrow waist. I am still looking from behind, which means that the genitalia are hidden.
And here is the odd puzzle. 90% of males start to find the curves on the females are attractive. 10% of us can't work out what all the fuss is about.
I'm not sure where I'm going with this. I'm just wondering, I think, why the timmy who enterend puberty with an apparently equal chance with all the rest to be str8 left it gay. Yet, surely I should have found girls become attractibve as they matured in front of my eyes? Surely?
Author of Queer Me! Halfway Between Flying and Crying - the true story of life for a gay boy in the Swinging Sixties in a British all male Public School
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Growing up in Sweden in the 70s meant there was remarkably little fuss about nudity amongst children. At the daycare center I spent my days between the ages of 2 and 7 when I started school, we undressed down to our bare skin and bathed in little inflatable tubs in the summers. If you go to a Swedish beach, you're likely to see young kids up to maybe the age of three or four or so run around completely nekkid even today. In school we change and shower naked together both in gymclass and when swimming. It's no biggie at all, most everybody's seen other naked people many times even before they start school.
In the 80s, it was popular amongst girls to be topless, at least in their early adolescent years. I saw my classmates' boobs as they started development. It looked...nice.
I certainly saw my fair share of both varieties of reproductive organs, I did some "playing doctor" (or Swedish equivalent) with both sexes. Though it was a long time since I saw a naked girl (apart from pics on the net or in magazines), it doesn't really matter, I visit swimming arenas and have gone to mediterranean summer resorts plenty of times where I've seen females wearing tight-fitting swimwear that leaves precious little to the imagination (and sometimes, wayyy too much really).
There are very few women on which I find the curvy look sexually appealing. It might be beautiful from an artistic point of view, but it doesn't push my buttons except in very few cases. Mostly I desire the androgynous look myself, girls that look like boys, and boys that look like girls. (By the way, latter case does NOT mean boys with fake boob implants or such - you know what I mean!  ) )
So I've seen all the bits we make such fuss about from an early age, and STILL I prefer the stuff I got myself. Isn't that weird?  I mean, by all logical reasons, I should have been attuned to the other sex, except I'm not!
Does this validate the view that gays are freaks of nature, or that gayness is natural? I don't know! All I do know is I kinda like the way I am. I don't WANT to be straight, even though it might make some things less complicated. ;-D
Hugs:
-L
"But he that hath the steerage of my course,
direct my sail."
-William Shakespeare, Romeo and Juliet, Act One, Scene IV
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I know we are born this way. I knew when I was 10, and knew nothing about sex.
I just knew I was different.
then I learned about sex, and I did not want it with girls at all. Believe me I tried it .... eeeewwwwww.
hehe
Won't go down that road again!
doubt this helps but hey, not sure i can.
Kevin
"Be excellent to each other, and, party on dudes"!
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oddly and honestly, this has always boggled me, too. when growing up and going through puberty, and getting said curves you speak of, i hated it. abhored it, loathed it. puberty and curve-getting, along with the incident i posted of shortly after coming here, is exactly why, probably, i developed an eating disorder that i haven't recovered from.
all my friends were all excited they were "becoming women" and all i wanted was to stay flat chested (thankfully i did, for the most part; a B cup is a wee too big for me), have flat/straight hips (unfortunately i didn't), and all that. when i lost that, i lost my sense of being 'one of the boys' even though i was never a "tom boy," but i was accepted into boy-groups because i was some oddity -- i was the girly girl who could also kick ass, who could skate, who could romp through the woods and not scream about bugs (except spiders), and all that. i was a huge mystery.
then, i went through puberty and i was gross. then a year after that, i was oogled and stared at, and i hated it. then i got raped for it. people just assume i'm straight because i coo and stare at the male form all the time, but what they don't realise is i have no real want to have sex with it, or make out with it, or date it ... not really. what i want is to BE it. i want no curves, i want a concaved stomach and no hips, just the bones to peek, and a flat chest.
it is a very strange thing, indeed.
the girls i have dated have had figures like me -- not ALL that girl-ish. and even then it's probably why i'm not even bi, i'm just f**ked up. because when it comes to doing physical with a girl, i'm not *quite* physically attracted to that. but the male form, which i am attracted to, i can't "be" with without incident, either.
conundrums!
my void does not want.
-- 2.13.61.
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My view is that it's a naturally occuring thing in nature, for a small percentage of the total population, same as in other species they've studued. We are attracted to what attracts us due to what's hard-wired in us, str8, gay, bi, trans, everything. Genetic.
With a b it of environmental fall-out making the mix more interesting for some people some of the time.
"Always forgive your enemies...nothing annoys them quite so much." Oscar Wilde
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Lenny, I just wanted to say thanks for writing that... It really spoke to me, and made me think very seriously about me as a child...
I am not sure why it spoke so strongly to me, but it did... so thanks !!!
BamBam
Celebrate your life... embrace your love... Become intimate with your place in forever !!!
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Oh boy, I am about to take a lot of ribbing from this one.....
Speaking as one of the Bi-Guys on the board, I can kinda see a lot of Timmy's difficulties and acceptances in this question. Translation = I sorta get the point.
I can remember in my own childhood being very much into girls, but also strangely drawn to the boys in my neighborhood. They had qualities and skills I lacked, and I emulated them to some degree. Often, I'd try to be friends with other boys just so that I could eventually get naked with them. Yeah, I was a little devious manipulator even back then. So at the same time that I'm trying to make time with girls, I'm taking just as much of the same precautions, manipulations, suggestions and intimacies with boys.
Weird, huh?
And, well, yeah, I kinda didn't like the girls that were too girly. Those that were all hips and training bras big enough to fling watermelons from didn't get my eye nearly as much as those that could turn backflips or perform a flying parry without looking like they were in trouble.
I guess what I'm saying is that I was attracted to the androgenous type rather than the Botoccelli poster girl look. I wanted someone who was capable, poised and strong without looking like an overarmed battleship or a precariously balanced piece of modern art. I was looking more for the sort of traits that caught my mind as well as my very overactive gonads. Whether I was attempting to see Billy's willie or get to second base with Grace, it was a matter of what I admired in them that caught me more than just the placement of bulges. That kinda happened along the way.
Supplimentally, I was a late bloomer. Not socially, but physically. In my case, a lot of my experimenting with other boys was, and I kinda am ashamed to admit it now, size comparison. There were whole weeks I could think of nothing more than "Wouldn't it be awesome if my thing was as big as Jeffery's? All the girls would want it then!" Did this cause me to want to see more boys? I can't honestly say, but I must admit it seems like it did.
So perhaps we are at a point in our graceless age when evolution is taking steps to try to get us back to form. Slimmer ladies with more masculine strength attributes, men with more sense of balance and alertness, maybe these are survival traits we are just beginning to return to again. Perhaps this is a way nature is making sure that we don't get too many curvacious wonders of science going for when the going get's tough. One of my favorite authors, Robert Heinlein, suggested that any human being should be able to do just about anything; that specialization was for the insects. Could a swing back towards androgeny be the answer?
Then again, maybe I just liked Billy's willy so much that it made mine tingle just thinking about it. In any case, the truth of the matter probably lies within us all, and somewhere in that mess we'll find it.
It's not the wolf you see you should fear, but all the ones he howls with. Don't be afraid of the song, but don't piss off the choir.
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I don't know.
I guess we've all been, well, some of us have been through this thing askin' about our orientation and never got to know the answer until now.
Don't you guys find it weird?
I mean, if boys are really meant for girls- then why in the world do some boys have to fall in love with other boys? Couldn't all boys've been made to like ONLY girls?
*sigh* Some things that happen in this world are pretty hard to explain.
*bangs head on the wall* "Why, oh why can't I find girls attractive?"
Hmm... maybe we all ought to dissect ourselves and see?
"The worst way of missing someone is to be sitting right next to them knowing you can't have them." To Stephen Tsang, wherever you are.
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This puzzles me a little 
You know... This is a REALLY interesting subject! 
Re: This puzzles me a little 
