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I was wondering what you all thought about this question.
Is it possible that with many forms of hate like terrorism and homophobic violence that we are not paying enough attention to the core reasons that these things exsist in society?
I know some of you will be dismissive and say 'they are just messed up'. While the resons are probably quite complex on both those subjects, to win the fight against hate in the long run seems to me that we also need to deal with the source.
I am no expert, but just like with drugs, treatment seems to be something we don't consider as a society, we just lock them up. The "War on drugs" is the most failed policy so far in that way.
Signed,
Curious George
:-/ 
"Be excellent to each other, and, party on dudes"!
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Guest
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On fire! |
Registered: March 2012
Messages: 2344
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First, what needs to be done is to define both terms.
Lets first do that before continuing to the question.
Terrorism : The systematic use of terror as a means of furthering political ambitions.
Homophobic violence : Violent acts inflicted on members of the gay community by people that fear gays.
Is this correct?
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Terrorists have a zero percent success rate in obtaining political goals by the use of terror. And the act of strapping a bomb to yourself to hurt another goes to a much deeper issue than any political ambition.
As to Homophobic violence, that definition assumes that fear is the motivating factor already, while that might actually be true in many cases, are you prepared to say it is so in every case? Could be?
It certainly sets up even more questions though Mr. mystery man (or woman?)
Kevin;-)
"Be excellent to each other, and, party on dudes"!
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Guest
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On fire! |
Registered: March 2012
Messages: 2344
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If no cigar, send a letter to Websters Unabridged Dictionary.
As for the Homophobic definition do the math Homo = Gay phobic = Fear of
Understanding the question requires understanding of the terms used within it.
As I can see this turning bad I will just decline from further comment.
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interesting take .... turning bad?
That implies and argument? where none exsists?
While I know the meaning of the words, I was speaking to the motivation of violence. Fear could very well be that motivator, I concede that.
Why are you no one special?
I always thought we are all special in our own way,
Kevin:-*
"Be excellent to each other, and, party on dudes"!
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Back to my original question, are we missing the boat by not addressing the causes?
"Be excellent to each other, and, party on dudes"!
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ch.oo.lo
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Toe is in the water |
Location: Michigan, USA
Registered: August 2003
Messages: 49
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By causes do you mean where it originated, or why it's perpetuated? And would you want it addressed on an "individual" (as in why one person may do it over another) or a societal level?
-Jeanne
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Good point, I guess I meant we as a people addressing the problem. So I guess societal was what I meant, sorry to both for not being more clear.
I think trying to find a motive for any one individual might help understand the problem as a whole but has no real benefit beyond that.
What do you think?
"Be excellent to each other, and, party on dudes"!
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It's been this way throughout history... Catholic and Protestant, Japan and China, England and France, usw. What I think it is is a primal fear of things different - a fear of change. In my opinion, people have to re-arrange their entire mentality for anything to change. The Germans and the French were big enemies, until both decided to get their heads out of their butts, and htings became a lot better... So unless people are willing to change - to re-think things, or for that matter think, nothing will change.
We have to stand-up, and continue to stand-up, or nothing will be re-arranged.
You said when you'd die that you'd walk with me every day
And I'd start to cry and say please don't talk that way
With the blink of an eye the Lord came and asked you to meet
You went to a better place but He stole you away from me
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These topics obviously stir very strong feelings...glad we're treading carefully and defining terms as we go.
I think there are at least 2 other aspects not mentioned aside from hate and fear of change and the unknown.
These are hate and impotence. And they are connected to each other. We all hope to never hate, and it is terrifying to really confront the fact that we can be hated, both as a society and as individuals. So it is difficult to take that hatred seriously...we try to deny it's presence and power.
Many people hate those they see as being more priviledged than themselves. Since a tiny fraction of the world's population (US citizens) use a huge amount of the world's resources and have much of the wealth, we are hated and envied for it. The have nots will sometimes die just to seek revenge or wreck havoc on the haves, even if there is no hope. Or maybe especially when there seems no hope of positive change for them.
When people or societies feel there is nothing they can do to effect change, that's what I mean by impotence. Then the only thing remaining to do in these people's view is to lash out in hate or roll over and die passively, which is not in human nature to do.
So it's more than fear.
Same with homophobia, I think. Hate of what's different, lashing out when they think they have been threatened. Even if they haven't been, really.
And terrorism HAS achieved results in many instances, actually. Look at who "on" the Vietnam war, for example...
"Always forgive your enemies...nothing annoys them quite so much." Oscar Wilde
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No Message Body
"Always forgive your enemies...nothing annoys them quite so much." Oscar Wilde
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excellent points David!
I must respectfully disagree that the horrors of Vietnam were by their nature terrorism. Paralells exsist to be sure, but it was fundamentally a territorial and a politically ideological battle in the end. At least that is how I see it when we define terrorism as it is today.
Of course, I could be wrong.
thanks, (and BTW I will be looking forward to your story)
Kevin
"Be excellent to each other, and, party on dudes"!
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Steve
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Really getting into it |
Location: London, England
Registered: November 2006
Messages: 465
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Is this correct?
I don't think it goes far enough.
Terrorism is violence (as bombing) committed by groups in order to intimidate a population or government into granting their demands. Furthermore, terrorism by definition is perpetrated against innocent citizens. (Acts of violence perpetrated against regular armed forces are not acts of terror but acts of war.)
I do not think that what was done to Matthew Shepherd was an act of terror. I think it was an act of incredible cruelty. Human beings are capable of such acts. I agree that we should seek the etiology of such acts of cruelty in the attempt to assuage a feeling of insecurity - though when gays are attacked that insecurity need not of necessity be the fear of latent homosexuality; it could be the answer to other acutely felt needs such as belonging socially, peer-group approval and so on.
Did Matthew Shepherd's murderers kill him as a deliberate act of violence intended to deter others (which would make it qualify as an act of terror)? I don't think so.
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Your right Steve, I don't think the two are the same.
Q: "What do you call a society where the pizza parlor your sitting in could blow up at any moment?"
A: "Isreal"
I do believe homophobia comes from two main sources. The first is that it is a learned behavior from parents and others. The second is the fear of ones own sexuality that manifests itself in hate and violence to "prove" the persons straightness.
"Be excellent to each other, and, party on dudes"!
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Guest
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On fire! |
Registered: March 2012
Messages: 2344
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What do you call a society when a car can pull up and five people get out and promptly beat your companion to death?
Answer; Pathetic
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Terrorism and Matthew Shepard ...... 
Close but no cigar ..... 
Re: Close but no cigar ..... 
Re: Terrorism and Matthew Shepard ...... 
